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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Again, as with MLG, Mr. Clark received the document and thanked me. As far as I am aware nothing came of this with IGL, which I consider to be attributable to their particular product structure and lack of interest in Starcraft 2 by their user base. Still, it was another step in the right direction. IGL died bro | ||
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Timetwister22
United States538 Posts
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Stijn
Netherlands363 Posts
On August 24 2013 07:31 Qwyn wrote: This is so damn depressing. Good job Blizzard! Good fucking job. How is this Blizzard's fault? If anything there's some light praise for Blizzard's steps towards increased cooperation with map makers in OP's huge story. | ||
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TeflonArena
Finland18 Posts
On August 24 2013 07:31 Qwyn wrote: This is so damn depressing. Good job Blizzard! Good fucking job. Hahahaha. Seriously, this is so cliche - its become so typical to yell at Blizzard about everything that goes on about Starcraft - I bet you didn't even read the whole story (hint - its under the spoiler tag) :D | ||
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SniXSniPe
United States1938 Posts
On August 24 2013 08:07 Stijn wrote: How is this Blizzard's fault? If anything there's some light praise for Blizzard's steps towards increased cooperation with map makers in OP's huge story. 1. Complexities of the editor 2. Arcade system sucked for the longest period of time 3. No market place or anything of note that encourages anyone to design melee maps because there is hardly any incentive etc. | ||
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Stijn
Netherlands363 Posts
I understand the whole problem with the Arcade system - or at least I will believe the map makers when they complain about it, I've never had much of a problem with it myself - but those other reasons seem kind of ...weird. Then again I never understood the idea of map making being as serious of a business as the whole "map making team" thing makes it seem to be, so maybe I'm just missing something here. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
If the author is starting to list these businesses as finally talking to them, then it just shows how long it's been since talks originally started. I swore I read the same thing with ESV awhile back and Diamond, a lot of this seems like passive communication rather than anything actually monumental. The TL mapmaking content is nice, but it more of a token of appreciation than anything more. Always feels like ProLeague takes maps a bit more serious than Blizzard, but I'm not too informed on the subject. | ||
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Timetwister22
United States538 Posts
On August 24 2013 08:40 Torte de Lini wrote: You're downplaying the issues of the mapmaking community and Blizzard's previous disregard for community maps, their makers as well as even tournaments organizers communicating with mapmaking orgs. If the author is starting to list these businesses as finally talking to them, then it just shows how long it's been since talks originally started. I swore I read the same thing with ESV awhile back and Diamond, a lot of this seems like passive communication rather than anything actually monumental. The TL mapmaking content is nice, but it more of a token of appreciation than anything more. Always feels like ProLeague takes maps a bit more serious than Blizzard, but I'm not too informed on the subject. GOM/Kespa are very nice to their map makers, and the benefit of such should be seen with maps like Daybreak and Whirlwind. Yet, there still isn't anything like that for the western scene. | ||
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
On August 24 2013 07:31 Qwyn wrote: This is so damn depressing. Good job Blizzard! Good fucking job. The typical whine about Blizzard which makes no sense whatsoever. | ||
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yokohama
United States1116 Posts
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shelfofjustice
Canada24 Posts
1. Complexities of the editor 2. Arcade system sucked for the longest period of time 3. No market place or anything of note that encourages anyone to design melee maps because there is hardly any incentive etc. 1. Literally irrelevant for melee maps 2. The past. 3. Market place will never be for melee maps, because of how incredibly stupid that is. Any expectations of making money from mapmaking are sheer pipe dream, doubly so for melee maps. It's a fun hobby, and trying to pretend otherwise is silly. To give an idea of scope, even asking for donations back in the Brood War days would've gotten your ass lawyered for trying to benefit from Blizzard products. Nowadays they're not only still trying to find ways to monetize it, they're even encouraging things like the SC Universe kickstarter and such. But seriously, it's actually mindboggling to me that I see people with expectations of monetary support for these things. People made maps, and now they aren't--it's a shame they no longer have fun with it, particularly if they are good at it, but any whining about support is unfounded. The best support Blizzard can give is hiring talented individuals from these communities--which hey, is something they've actually been doing for the past umpteen years. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Timetwister22
United States538 Posts
On August 24 2013 10:20 Sated wrote: If Daybreak and Whirlwind are the result of being "nice" to map makers, then map makers should be treated worse... Such bad maps... + Show Spoiler + Protip: I am being facetious Wasn't so much trying g to say that this maps were good, but rather how far maps can go with good treatment and support. If an unknown, but potentially 'good' map goes unnoticed and ignored because of no support, I'd validate that as a problem. | ||
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eTcetRa
Australia822 Posts
On August 24 2013 08:07 Stijn wrote: How is this Blizzard's fault? If anything there's some light praise for Blizzard's steps towards increased cooperation with map makers in OP's huge story. Sure there is light praise for their very minor attempts toward cooperation, but ultimately they fell short. The greatest thing a mapmaker can accomplish is to get their map on ladder and into tournaments. I've been SC2 mapmaking since release and I finally got one of my maps in that position. And then it turns out Blizzard made the map their own, completely changing my work, that I spent around 9 months working on. Sure yeah I still got credit... but I'd rather I didn't if it isn't really my map anymore. Blizzard handled it poorly, my email was given to them by the TLMC organiser and if they had just used it a map worth being on ladder/tournaments might have been made, instead of what they come up with now. GGWP. | ||
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Uvantak
Uruguay1381 Posts
On August 24 2013 10:20 Sated wrote: If Daybreak and Whirlwind are the result of being "nice" to map makers, then map makers should be treated worse... Such bad maps... + Show Spoiler + Protip: I am being facetious But Whirlwind and Daybreak were EXCELENT maps in their moment, the fact that you think that way shows how neglected the maps have become, you just CAN'T have a map for EIGHT fucking seasons and expect him to be balanced at the end of them, it is IMPOSSIBLE since the the players by nature will try to break balance and try to find exploits in the map, it's the natural development of things, that's why the maps NEEDS to be cicled out after a reasonable time, otherwise they will start showing imbalances, and not mostly because the map is bad, but because the players adapt to the map with such efficiency that is THEY the ones that create the imbalance (stagnated metagame in this case). //EDIT// tbh i find the change to Frost (xel'nagas) much more important than the change to the island bases and texturing in Yeonsu. | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
 On August 24 2013 08:40 Torte de Lini wrote: You're downplaying the issues of the mapmaking community and Blizzard's previous disregard for community maps, their makers as well as even tournaments organizers communicating with mapmaking orgs. If the author is starting to list these businesses as finally talking to them, then it just shows how long it's been since talks originally started. I swore I read the same thing with ESV awhile back and Diamond, a lot of this seems like passive communication rather than anything actually monumental. The TL mapmaking content is nice, but it more of a token of appreciation than anything more. Always feels like ProLeague takes maps a bit more serious than Blizzard, but I'm not too informed on the subject. No, you're pretty on target with your perception. | ||
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eTcetRa
Australia822 Posts
On August 24 2013 04:53 iNcontroL wrote: I asked him for a comment and he told me: "I was just too enthralled by what TI3 has shown. I am going to try my hand at professional DotA2 map making." I wish him the best of luck! And I actually laughed at this one. Thanks but... On August 24 2013 04:56 HoMM wrote: I asked him for a comment and he told me: "I was just too enthralled by what LCS has shown. I am going to try my hand at professional LoL map making." I wish him the best of luck! Get out! | ||
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Mahanaim
Korea (South)1002 Posts
 Wish the best of luck to you guys. | ||
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eTcetRa
Australia822 Posts
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
On August 24 2013 09:13 Huragius wrote: The typical whine about Blizzard which makes no sense whatsoever. Ok then. It's not Blizzard's fault for repeatedly using terrible, Blizzard made maps over the plethora of community made maps which go through plenty of testing. It's not Blizzard's fault for failing to promote community made ladder maps at all, resulting in the vast majority of them never getting used. It's not Blizzard's fault for basically, standing up map-makers on their asses and giving them no support. Who else would you think it might be? Tournament organizers? Sure - but they are also using the maps that Blizzard forces them to use, now. Months ago, and you could argue that, and in fact there WERE some tourneys that brought about the use of new maps. But by and large, it is Blizzard. The maps are there. I go into the Custom Map forum. I repeatedly comment on a lot of amazing maps that will never be used. So while you can claim that it is MY FAULT, or the community's fault, I place the blame on the company who has the power to make one of the best map pools the game has ever had, every season, with tons of brand new community maps that are beautiful and logical in design. Who instead, for the past TWO YEARS, have very slowly, at a snail's pace, used horribly made maps instead of the community made maps which were just SITTING THERE, begging to be used! You can call next season's map pool progress, and you're damn right it is, to a point. But is it progress to have the vast majority of map-makers retire and disappear into obscurity because Blizzard failed to support one of the vital components of the game? And to a lesser extent, tournament organizers? | ||
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