TL's Nazgul and GomTV's Mr Chae on WCS

On August 22 2013 02:27 xsnac wrote:
i agree with nazgul
blizzard : robots that act only by the rules
valve : humans

i wonder if blizzard will ever see those interviews

On August 22 2013 02:46 Zealously wrote:


GomTV is getting (has gotten) into DotA2 as well.

On August 22 2013 02:27 xsnac wrote:
i agree with nazgul
blizzard : robots that act only by the rules
valve : humans

i wonder if blizzard will ever see those interviews

On August 22 2013 02:27 xsnac wrote:
i agree with nazgul
blizzard : robots that act only by the rules
valve : humans

i wonder if blizzard will ever see those interviews

On August 22 2013 02:27 xsnac wrote:
i agree with nazgul
blizzard : robots that act only by the rules
valve : humans

i wonder if blizzard will ever see those interviews

On August 22 2013 04:01 ssxsilver wrote:

I don't think it's fair to call that of Blizzard. They care a lot but for whatever reason, they manage to Charlie Brown everything. I liken them more to a kindly, out of touch grandfather -.-.

On August 22 2013 02:46 Zealously wrote:


GomTV is getting (has gotten) into DotA2 as well.

On August 22 2013 04:03 Lunareste wrote:



Know why Valve doesn't release HL3? Because the moment they do, people are going to shit all over them for the smallest, insignificant things. That's exactly what's happened to Blizz.

On August 22 2013 03:35 JP Dayne wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I liked the nazgul one better
I'd be proud to be 7-8th on TI
do you guys think he might wanna try and hire Fear? lol

On August 22 2013 04:36 DDie wrote:


He can't compete with EG dollars.


If anything, i can see EG sniping TL players (bulba).

On August 22 2013 04:30 nojok wrote:

Valve does not have the same pressure as blizzard had before releasing SC2. Until SC2 and D3, blizzard had an history of revolutionary great games at each release. Now people don't expect much from them.

On August 22 2013 05:10 Cele wrote:
how is this related to sc2? they are only talking Dota?

On August 22 2013 05:05 URLateral wrote:

what i Thought is really funny about this whole thing with bulba, is that bulba was on EG then EG lost at ti2 and kicked bulba off the team

BUT Liquid saw the potential in bulba and then picked him up and now look where he is LOL I just think thats funny now EG is probably trying to get him back

On August 22 2013 04:59 Plexa wrote:
That Nazgul jacket.

On August 22 2013 05:43 Dingodile wrote:

Yeah I wonder why I/we dont see them in sc2 too. jackets from alliance are pretty badass too.

On August 22 2013 06:14 Bongy wrote:
Totally agree with WCS taking prestige/fun away from the GSL/OSL, I personally don't follow WCS Korea as avidly as I did when all the best participated in it.

On August 22 2013 05:38 Noocta wrote:
Blizzard is a multi thousand employees firm on multiple continents with a classic hierarchy.
Valve is a 200/300 ish size firm running a horizontal hierarchy system in a single office.

And people expect them to work the same ?
Do someone here have a single idea how management works ?

On August 22 2013 06:19 Scareb wrote:


If a company has a good management, it should work both ways. That's why you have head of departments etc. Of course it's harder to manage 4.700 employees then 400 but on the other hand, the people responsible for Diablo 3 have nothing to do with the people working for the eSports department.

Good interviews. Hope eSports keeps growing from year to year as it did the last three years!

On August 22 2013 04:59 Plexa wrote:
That Nazgul jacket.

On August 22 2013 06:41 Krogan wrote:
I would also argue that simply because more ppl watch one thing over another does no inherently mean it's better. If that was the case why aren't we all just watching football/soccer right now?

On August 22 2013 03:56 Condor Hero wrote:
love the interviews

gamespot video player is ghetto, fix plz

On August 22 2013 07:47 Yakikorosu wrote:


This is a very true and important statement. There seems to be an unstated assumption here that because SC2 is less popular than LoL or DotA2 in viewership, this MUST mean that this is because Blizzard is screwing something up. It seems much more likely to me that LoL and DotA2 are simply more popular games than SC2 is. And so what if they are? Last I checked, soccer was the most popular sport in the world, but there are plenty of huge fans of other sports that couldn't care less about soccer and plenty of successful leagues for sports much less popular worldwide than soccer. I don't see basketball or hockey fans insisting that their sports are only losing out to soccer or American football in viewership because the structure of the NBA or NHL is somehow inferior.

If you listen to the two interviews in the OP, they criticize Blizzard but don't have any suggestions on what should be changed except Mr. Chae's suggestion of letting organizers run tournaments as they see fit and then having a separate annual Blizzcon event. But... that's exactly what was in place in 2012, and it's not like SC2 was the #1 dominant e-sport then either. That's the year his own company, GOMTV, gave us only five SC2 tournaments the entire year, instead of nine in 2011 (counting the ST and WC).

On August 22 2013 06:16 Dingodile wrote:

Not only in KR, they made all tournament (DH,MLG,...) worse.

On August 22 2013 08:27 Jerubaal wrote:
Translation: Give us money.

On August 22 2013 04:03 Lunareste wrote:



Know why Valve doesn't release HL3? Because the moment they do, people are going to shit all over them for the smallest, insignificant things. That's exactly what's happened to Blizz.

On August 22 2013 09:10 jiberish wrote:
All I can say is that so what if Koreans are going everywhere. I only want to watch the best games. I don't care what country the player is from. But if they want to support more local competition. Go back to the original format. With lots of different country leagues. Because that was kind of interesting for new player exposure. But just give more spots to Koreans in the global finals.

On August 22 2013 08:08 azngamer828 wrote:
i want NAZGUL's white hoodie!
they should make those

On August 22 2013 09:25 Esoterikk wrote:


The problem with this is its now vs then. Sure watching the best games NOW is more fun but allowing koreans to go everywhere causes non koreans to leave the scene then suddenly we are left with no foreign players because we didn't foster then scene and viewership will drop. It's bad for everyone in the future.

Imagine basketball if NBA teams played in every highschool league, how long do you think that sport would be sustainable.

On August 22 2013 09:41 Taipoka wrote:

But to complete your point.
Will people agree to earn as much money as highschool league compared to NBA?
Thats the question.

On August 22 2013 09:44 Esoterikk wrote:


I don't think NA or EU should get as much prize money as KR, KR should have far and away the most prize money. But I also don't agree that Blizzard feels it's acceptable to let WCS AM essentially be code A but in America instead.

On August 22 2013 08:58 havok55 wrote:


My god... that makes too much sense.

On August 22 2013 09:50 Taipoka wrote:

I don´t disagree with your point.
Just that i think the difference in prize (If at the same size of the difference in skill) may be bad for the AM scene as well.
I think Blizzard have a very difficult scenario on his hands.

On August 22 2013 08:54 Wildmoon wrote:
I likw that they criticize the system openly so Blizzard will improve it in the future. I don't really agree though that WCS is not positive to the scene. I think it's great and only need improvement. I don't like TI's kind of tournament at all. It's 1 tournament with huge ass prize pull but I want a long league with more spreaded out prize pool like WCS. It rewards consistency. You guys don't realize that WCS helps progamer such as Welmu,Grubby and more who will never ever reach high place with the old system of SC2's tournaments. It gives them something to look forward to. If it's TI's system then no chance they will ever get pass shit tons of korean.

People are blowing things out of porportion as well. I have seen SC2 beat Dota2 in viewership most of the time if it's non TI. SC2 will never have playerbase and viewership as big as LoL because Dota-like game is far more accessible and f2p.

On August 22 2013 11:19 juicyjames wrote:

I like to think that Blizzard is waiting for WCS 2014 to make major changes to the format/rules. I refuse to believe they are that oblivious.

On August 22 2013 11:24 Plansix wrote:

They have to wait for the season to finish and for the grand finals at Blizzcon before they can make big changes. If they changed the rules now and pulled the rug out from under the players, they would be in a ton of trouble both legally and with the community.

On August 22 2013 11:19 juicyjames wrote:

I like to think that Blizzard is waiting for WCS 2014 to make major changes to the format/rules. I refuse to believe they are that oblivious.

On August 22 2013 11:24 Plansix wrote:

They have to wait for the season to finish and for the grand finals at Blizzcon before they can make big changes. If they changed the rules now and pulled the rug out from under the players, they would be in a ton of trouble both legally and with the community.

On August 22 2013 11:29 Seraphic wrote:


Changing WCS this late won't get SC2's viewers back. The moment the hype for HotS went away, SC2 viewers dropped to WoL levels near the end of it's run.

Blizzard has to do something extremely drastic to get something going because at this rate they are already losing to DotA 2 in most every possible way. And of course don't even mention LoL because they won't get there. 1 Streamer from LoL beats out a tournament SC2 stream currently.

On August 22 2013 09:25 Esoterikk wrote:


The problem with this is its now vs then. Sure watching the best games NOW is more fun but allowing koreans to go everywhere causes non koreans to leave the scene then suddenly we are left with no foreign players because we didn't foster then scene and viewership will drop. It's bad for everyone in the future.

Imagine basketball if NBA teams played in every highschool league, how long do you think that sport would be sustainable.

On August 22 2013 11:35 Plansix wrote:

That's not how broadcasting works at all. Its not one game vs another and one will walk out at the end. This isn't highlander Esports. Dota 2 has less viewers for SC2 for any other event than TI3. Period. The NBA doesn't try to beat out the NFL. The NBA just runs the NBA.

On August 22 2013 11:35 Plansix wrote:

That's not how broadcasting works at all. Its not one game vs another and one will walk out at the end. This isn't highlander Esports. Dota 2 has less viewers for SC2 for any other event than TI3. Period. The NBA doesn't try to beat out the NFL. The NBA just runs the NBA.

On August 22 2013 11:41 Seraphic wrote:


You're only talking about Online Tournaments, something that happens regularly for DotA 2. You cannot expect everyone to catch that. If your saying LAN vs LAN then DotA 2 will be better. I'm not saying SC2 is dead.

However, you have to taken into consideration that almost everyone in the scene realized how bad of a shape SC2 is. DotA 2 will continue to keep growing, can you say the same with SC2 without the release of LotV?

Edit:
And the fact that MLG dropped SC2 now is a sign isn't it? I do like watching SC2 when I have the time. I love SKT1 during the BW days, but I just do not see SC2 having any hope unless Blizzard changes their tactics. DotA 2 has been out officially for 1+ month plus give or take, with China and Korea in Closed/Open Beta for their servers. It's just going to get worse from here on end.

1-2 players didn't voice their concern for SC2 without a reason either.

On August 22 2013 11:24 Plansix wrote:

They have to wait for the season to finish and for the grand finals at Blizzcon before they can make big changes. If they changed the rules now and pulled the rug out from under the players, they would be in a ton of trouble both legally and with the community.

On August 22 2013 12:12 Plansix wrote:

I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated, but I will do it again.

MLG did not drop SC2. Redbull is running an event that weekend and MLG does not want to split the viewers or players. They are willing and want to have SC2 at their events in the future. MLG has said this several times, even on this website. The only reason Dota 2 is growing is because Dota 2 had no where to go but up.

On August 22 2013 12:27 Seraphic wrote:


That might be true but can you expect MLG to pick up SC2 after this?

Doesn't Blizzard require organizers to pay them to run their games? Riot pays organizers to run their games, and Valve lets the organizers to decide for themselves, and allow the organizers to keep what they got.

Organizers like MLG needs to be gaining profit. I know I read some where that Sundanace said, regardless of how well MLG has done this year, they still aren't profiting as much because they have to pay Blizzard to run SC2. And without MLG, where will SC2 go in NA aside from the WCS that happens so often it's just boring to watch Koreans win it anyway? Redbull is NO MLG. SC2 losing MLG is huge because now if MLG continues to run DotA 2, MLG will help the NA scene a lot because it is something that's severely lacking in the NA DotA 2 scene.

There has been no indication that MLG will pick up SC2 again. It is early yes, but can you say with full confidence that MLG will pick up SC2 again, and pay Blizzard to run it?

On August 22 2013 02:27 xsnac wrote:
i agree with nazgul
blizzard : robots that act only by the rules
valve : humans

On August 22 2013 12:37 Plansix wrote:

Blizzard does not charge. MLG is profitable, Sundance said on state of the game when he was last on. You are kinda bad at fact checking. Adam at MLG has said they want to cover SC2. He has said it to me directly. Your sepulation is incorrect. You are creating drama where there is none.

On August 22 2013 13:09 Seraphic wrote:


I stand corrected then. I don't like seeing SC2 in such a bad state when several people have been worried about the games state.

At the end of the day, numbers matter. And LoL and DotA 2 has more of it.

On August 22 2013 11:27 lolfail9001 wrote:

Community will always have problems with whatever thing Blizzard will do with SC2 and/or e-sports. That is the definition of community after all.

On August 22 2013 13:54 Rabiator wrote:

Well they do some seriously stupid things and have done right from the start of SC2. Remember the oh so important Facebook integration? That was more important to develop than working chat channels, right? Remember the fight they had with KeSPA at the beginning over control of SC2? If they were really altruistic and wanted to help the community evolve they would have been happy about everyone who wanted to join the scene, but noooo ... they "must be" in control of it all and that says everything.

In addition their game designers are behaving like arrogant idiots who think that their own preferences work for everyone and if they think mech is boring then everyone else thinks the same. The whole company stinks of a disconnect between them and their fans and only because of the work of some awesome game developers 15 years ago did they get such a huge and loyal fanbase that accepts every kind of abuse they are dealt.

Remember "Error 37" and always on for Diablo? And the stupid real money auction house? Blizzard is all about two things nowadays ... CONTROL and MAKING AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY CAN without regard for the consequences. Making games is just a means to an end to them and not something they have a passion for.

On August 22 2013 06:19 Scareb wrote:


If a company has a good management, it should work both ways. That's why you have head of departments etc. Of course it's harder to manage 4.700 employees then 400 but on the other hand, the people responsible for Diablo 3 have nothing to do with the people working for the eSports department.

Good interviews. Hope eSports keeps growing from year to year as it did the last three years!

On August 22 2013 14:15 BronzeKnee wrote:


Are the people responsible for Diablo 3 still working at Blizzard?

If so, I've lost all hope for Blizzard. I've worked in quite a few different fields in my life, and if I ever performed as poorly as the team that made Diablo 3 did, I would have been fired by even the most incompetent boss I worked for. I bought that game despite the bad reviews, thinking it couldn't be that bad, that the problems people had were mostly in multiplayer, and that I'd enjoy one play through (I really enjoyed D2 single player, played it through a couple of times, only planned on playing D3 in single player). And I hated it, got mid way through Act 2, and uninstalled the game.

Back on topic, you are correct. As Sun Tzu stated: "Management of many is the same as management of few. It is a matter of organization."

On August 22 2013 14:15 BronzeKnee wrote:


Are the people responsible for Diablo 3 still working at Blizzard?

If so, I've lost all hope for Blizzard. I've worked in quite a few different fields in my life, and if I ever performed as poorly as the team that made Diablo 3 did, I would have been fired by even the most incompetent boss I worked for. I bought that game despite the bad reviews, thinking it couldn't be that bad, that the problems people had were mostly in multiplayer, and that I'd enjoy at least one play through (I really enjoyed D2 single player, played it through a couple of times, only planned on playing D3 in single player). And I hated it, got mid way through Act 2, raged, and uninstalled the game. At least it was a Christmas gift...

Back on topic, you are correct. As Sun Tzu stated: "Management of many is the same as management of few. It is a matter of organization." If Valve is working better than Blizzard due to size, then Blizzard is poorly managed and Valve is well managed.

On August 22 2013 14:23 silentsod wrote:


If you were ever a part of a team that released a game which profited hundreds of millions of dollars you would have been fired? What a career you must have where that counts as abject failure!

I do so hope you're aware that in the real world if what you produce makes your employers money hand over fist you're not going to be valued.

On August 22 2013 11:35 Plansix wrote:

That's not how broadcasting works at all. Its not one game vs another and one will walk out at the end. This isn't highlander Esports. Dota 2 has less viewers for [than?] SC2 for any other event than TI3. Period. The NBA doesn't try to beat out the NFL. The NBA just runs the NBA.

On August 22 2013 04:03 Lunareste wrote:



Know why Valve doesn't release HL3? Because the moment they do, people are going to shit all over them for the smallest, insignificant things. That's exactly what's happened to Blizz.

On August 22 2013 05:38 Noocta wrote:
Blizzard is a multi thousand employees firm on multiple continents with a classic hierarchy.
Valve is a 200/300 ish size firm running a horizontal hierarchy system in a single office.

And people expect them to work the same ?
Do someone here have a single idea how management works ?

On August 22 2013 14:26 Assirra wrote:

You do know that Diablo 3 was a major success sale wise right? Why would they fire those people that made them all that money.

On August 22 2013 16:14 Reasonable wrote:

I don't remember any negative feedback about HL2. Most critics agreed it's the best FPS ever with HL1 being pushed to the second place.

Blizzard is all about two things nowadays ... CONTROL and MAKING AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY CAN without regard for the consequences. Making games is just a means to an end to them and not something they have a passion for.

You do know that Diablo 3 was a major success sale wise right? Why would they fire those people that made them all that money.

A company that has a reputation of releasing superior products soils it very quickly when they release mediocre products. In fact, releasing mediocre products is first step that many great companies take that ultimately leads to their failure.

On August 22 2013 14:26 Assirra wrote:

You do know that Diablo 3 was a major success sale wise right? Why would they fire those people that made them all that money.

The question is how many people will buy D4. I won't - and that says a lot about how bad D3 is...

On August 22 2013 11:35 Plansix wrote:

That's not how broadcasting works at all. Its not one game vs another and one will walk out at the end. This isn't highlander Esports. Dota 2 has less viewers for SC2 for any other event than TI3. Period. The NBA doesn't try to beat out the NFL. The NBA just runs the NBA.

On August 22 2013 17:20 cutler wrote:
so what do we learn from that...dont spend time on your new game..just throw at in the community and call it open beta.
Organize an event with a LOT of money...and everyone will love you.

Already happened some years ago with Painkiller. Lets see how long Valve will take care.
Interviews sound like that they will keep sc2 only to save their faces...quite sad. But anyway...thats how esports work. Lets move to the next game.

On August 22 2013 02:47 Plansix wrote:

GomTV is in the business of broadcasting games that are good and people like.

On August 22 2013 19:31 Nekovivie wrote:


Yeah, digging that World of Tanks.

:-/

On August 22 2013 04:30 nojok wrote:

Valve does not have the same pressure as blizzard had before releasing SC2. Until SC2 and D3, blizzard had an history of revolutionary great games at each release. Now people don't expect much from them.

On August 22 2013 20:08 maartendq wrote:

Starcraft 2 pretty much single-handedly revolutionised esports in Europe and the US. I doubt that both DOTA2 and LoL would have become as popular as they are if it hadn't been for Starcraft 2.

On August 22 2013 04:30 nojok wrote:

Valve does not have the same pressure as blizzard had before releasing SC2. Until SC2 and D3, blizzard had an history of revolutionary great games at each release. Now people don't expect much from them.

On August 22 2013 21:39 Khai wrote:
Blizzard have done such a bad job with D3 and also screwing up SC2, it's time for big changes before they run everything down.

On August 22 2013 20:08 maartendq wrote:
Starcraft 2 pretty much single-handedly revolutionised esports in Europe and the US. I doubt that both DOTA2 and LoL would have become as popular as they are if it hadn't been for Starcraft 2.

On August 22 2013 23:11 bLah. wrote:


not really. What revolutionised esports in EU and US were basically 2 things: 1st player switch from mmos back to other games and 2nd technology (especially streaming, twitch etc because that gave money directly from viewers to players and teams).
Starcraft just had pole position because it was blizzards game at the time those things were happening but it's silly to think that starcraft is the main reason for rise of esports.

On August 22 2013 22:28 29 fps wrote:
i couldnt focus during the interview because of DAT JACKET

On August 23 2013 00:45 jtp118 wrote:
Slasher is literally the most worthless figure in esports, and a terrible interviewer ... I just don't get it

User was warned for this post

On August 22 2013 19:31 Nekovivie wrote:


Yeah, digging that World of Tanks.

:-/

On August 22 2013 05:54 ComaDose wrote:
want nazgul's jacket in the store plz

On August 22 2013 16:30 Sejanus wrote:

Two reasons: (1) Sun Tzu said something; (2) that guy ragequitted diablo. Haven't you been reading his message at all?


That's correct, but Blizzard products are still vastly superior to majority of games that were released in the past few years. Aside from some hardcore fans who are mad that not everyone follows SC2 proscene (and some people even dare to watch Dota 2) people are generally happy with Blizzard games.

On August 23 2013 11:06 Neemi wrote:
Regarding Half Life 3: HL1 was a landmark in gaming. HL2 was even better. HL3 would be the most anticipated game ever and expected to be superior to HL2 even. But considering how unbelievably long it takes to make games nowadays and most importantly, the fact that they've continued to polish HL2 to what it is now, it is impossible for HL3 to be as good as HL2 when it's first released which is going to lead to a lot of complaints.

On August 22 2013 02:47 Plansix wrote:

GomTV is in the business of broadcasting games that are good and people like.

On August 23 2013 05:07 plgElwood wrote:
Valve: Sells Games via Steam, earns millions.
Does not even have to be balanced with Dota2 Events.

Riot: Sells" Bonuses" to climb ladder of a game they remade from a SC1 mod. Is pay to play if you want to compete and be " like da Pros"

BLizzard:
Comes up with great genre defining games themselves (SC, WC, WoW, Dia), developes engine and content,
does not sell ingame items for SC2, does not come up with 3 Item 1 map $$$-DLC, but with expansions, does not "make a totally new badass Game " every 8 months you have to buy (like CoD and Battlefield), does not charge you for multiplayer in 4/5 games, supports games 10+ years after launch, even with patches and active servers.

So Blizzard is kind of the "Good Guy". I like Valve, their success based on HL, and that game was/is awesome, and also the steam plattform is making PC-Gaming THAT EASY. They are forcing their way back to esports with $$$ from steam and an already successful idea (Dota2)

On August 23 2013 15:19 Executerror wrote:
How would blizzard like if MLG assigned their own MLG points in Blizzard online tournaments?

On August 22 2013 04:59 Plexa wrote:
That Nazgul jacket.