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really surprised that jim wasnt allowed to play tomorrow, like grubby and oz
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On July 25 2013 19:57 p1oneer wrote:
really surprised that jim wasnt allowed to play tomorrow, like grubby and oz
Because it is a completely different case. You can read the thread and see it for yourself.
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On July 25 2013 19:50 Alopex wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 19:44 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:38 mengsk83 wrote:On July 25 2013 19:33 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:32 grs wrote:On July 25 2013 19:30 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:24 grs wrote:On July 25 2013 19:12 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:11 grs wrote:On July 25 2013 19:09 dignitasDreAm wrote:
[quote]
agreed The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament? no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match. just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament? because of extraordinary circumstances rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament? because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
Wow what the fuck man...
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Ah fuck it's despressing seeing good players cockblocked because of stupid things like visas.
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On July 25 2013 19:50 Starney wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote:
they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever. Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time. In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players.
You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right?
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On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote:
they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
Signed!
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On July 25 2013 19:50 Alopex wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 19:44 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:38 mengsk83 wrote:On July 25 2013 19:33 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:32 grs wrote:On July 25 2013 19:30 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:24 grs wrote:On July 25 2013 19:12 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:11 grs wrote:On July 25 2013 19:09 dignitasDreAm wrote:
[quote]
agreed The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament? no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match. just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament? because of extraordinary circumstances rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament? because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
Wow that totally sucks. I'm surprised they would deny them, though it might have something to do with the short notice and the less than stellar US-Chinese relations on the subject of computer hacking/spying. Hopefully there is something that Blizzard's US office can do about it. But they might be just as helpless as the players.
Visa issues suck.
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I lost my first job due to couldn't get a working visa to India after 4 month of bickering, for no reason at all... Visa officers outside EU are often powertripping arseholes.
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On July 25 2013 19:33 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 19:32 grs wrote:On July 25 2013 19:30 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:24 grs wrote:On July 25 2013 19:12 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:11 grs wrote:On July 25 2013 19:09 dignitasDreAm wrote:On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote:
they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case agreed The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament? no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match. just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament? because of extraordinary circumstances rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
i think there is a certain limit to exeptions a tournament can make. in this case its a REALLY shitty situation because jim now lost 2 premiere tourneys at the same time.
but if you look at the tweets from iem guys, they seem to have a tough job dealing with chinese conditions anyways. like no ac for the last 2 hours, having to start later, having the place shut down before they where done with the day. and despite all that they gave jim 5 hours (!!!!).
of course it would have been possible to give him a match against daisy on the next day. but i understand their decision to draw a line somewhere, to get things in order again.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
I'd agree with the statement "Visa's are killing E-Sports" however, i think surely it is the players/teams fault for leaving it so late? I mean as soon as you know/played your match and your in the RO16 for WCS NA, why didn't you go get a VISA application the next day for 'murica?!
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On July 25 2013 19:58 Erraa93 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 19:50 Alopex wrote:On July 25 2013 19:44 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:38 mengsk83 wrote:On July 25 2013 19:33 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:32 grs wrote:On July 25 2013 19:30 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:24 grs wrote:On July 25 2013 19:12 Waxangel wrote:On July 25 2013 19:11 grs wrote:
[quote]
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament? no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match. just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament? because of extraordinary circumstances rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament? because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly. Wow what the fuck man...
Tbh that's not any weird.
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On July 25 2013 20:06 Pandemona wrote:
I'd agree with the statement "Visa's are killing E-Sports" however, i think surely it is the players/teams fault for leaving it so late? I mean as soon as you know/played your match and your in the RO16 for WCS NA, why didn't you go get a VISA application the next day for 'murica?!
From what I am reading on the subject, it can take months to get a visa to the US for some in China. They may have put in the application the instant they qualified. Sadly, US-Chinese relations are not the same as they were EU or Korea.
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On July 25 2013 19:59 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 19:50 Starney wrote:On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote:
they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever. Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time. In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players. You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right?
As far as I understand Chinese citizens need some approval to travel abroad, don't they? By the statements cited in this thread I assumed it was the Chinese embassy first. Sorry if that's not right ...
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On July 25 2013 20:06 Pandemona wrote:
I'd agree with the statement "Visa's are killing E-Sports" however, i think surely it is the players/teams fault for leaving it so late? I mean as soon as you know/played your match and your in the RO16 for WCS NA, why didn't you go get a VISA application the next day for 'murica?!
From what I know, you have to make appointments with the embassy, and Jim/MacSed had their appointments booked with "extra urgent"(which costed even more) right after they qualified, and then it's up to the embassy on when they want to meet you.
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On July 25 2013 20:11 Starney wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 19:59 ragz_gt wrote:On July 25 2013 19:50 Starney wrote:On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote:
they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever. Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time. In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players. You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right? As far as I understand Chinese citizens need some approval to travel abroad, don't they? By the statements cited in this thread I assumed it was the Chinese embassy first. Sorry if that's not right ...
Well, they need a passport, like everyone else, and most Chinese don't have one. But other than that no, they do not need special permission, and it would not be handled by Chinese embassy, as there is no Chinese embassy in China, for obvious reason.
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On July 25 2013 20:11 Starney wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 19:59 ragz_gt wrote:On July 25 2013 19:50 Starney wrote:On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote:
they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever. Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time. In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players. You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right? As far as I understand Chinese citizens need some approval to travel abroad, don't they? By the statements cited in this thread I assumed it was the Chinese embassy first. Sorry if that's not right ...
Nope, It was only the American embassy mattered.
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It's not the players/coach fault. They needed the invite letter from Blizzard to arrive before applying for visa.
Then the interview gets scheduled.
Not a huge timeframe for any of the parts involved, considering ro32 was played this and last week.
As a side note, why not move WCS US to Korea? That would be the most convenient way for teams/players.
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On July 25 2013 20:15 Mirrikh wrote:
It's not the players/coach fault. They needed the invite letter from Blizzard to arrive before applying for visa.
Then the interview gets scheduled.
Not a huge timeframe for any of the parts involved, considering ro32 was played this and last week.
As a side note, why not move WCS US to Korea? That would be the most convenient way for teams/players.
LoL, why even have it at that point, when the US players would need to go to Korea. The whole point is to not have everyone flying over the pacific ocean.
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Kim Phan @kimaphan 2m
@RotterdaM08 @dignitasDreAm we will definitely try to help even further.
Looks like Blizzard is going to try to help maybe.
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On July 25 2013 20:14 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 20:11 Starney wrote:On July 25 2013 19:59 ragz_gt wrote:On July 25 2013 19:50 Starney wrote:On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote:
they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever. Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time. In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players. You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right? As far as I understand Chinese citizens need some approval to travel abroad, don't they? By the statements cited in this thread I assumed it was the Chinese embassy first. Sorry if that's not right ... Well, they need a passport, like everyone else, and most Chinese don't have one. But other than that no, they do not need special permission, and it would not be handled by Chinese embassy, as there is no Chinese embassy in China, for obvious reason.
Not an embassy, but the embassy's headquarter, like an Department for Foreign Affairs - thought about that first.
But these misunderstandings are settled now - sorry to cause this though.
What's left is the following statement: Political issues between the U.S. and China are messing up eSports, as said earlier in this thread.
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EPT
