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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On July 09 2013 13:59 AxionSteel wrote: You make it sound like it was a rare event to survive to that point Lol. Until the very end of WoL it was quite a struggle. Protoss was very good at abusing timings just before BL/infestor (and terrans too), then zerg figured out that spine crawlers are pretty good. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On July 09 2013 13:59 AxionSteel wrote: You make it sound like it was a rare event to survive to that point Lol. Yeah, surviving to that occurred 90% of games, unless the opponent was parting, then it was 40%~50% | ||
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seansye
United States1722 Posts
On July 09 2013 13:33 TheRabidDeer wrote: Looks like jinro opened the memory floodgates and the protoss crying is beginning again! Stop trying to instigate unless you're sucking up to Jinro. | ||
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
On July 09 2013 13:52 TheRabidDeer wrote: You kind of had to survive until BL/infestor though. Yeah if only a support unit could be cost efficient against tier one units... | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On July 09 2013 14:03 seansye wrote: Stop trying to instigate unless you're sucking up to Jinro. Lol, not trying to instigate anything. Just saying that suddenly protoss complaining about the past and GSL's and champions and terrans and BL/infestor etc. Honestly, terran and protoss bitched a ton at the end of WoL but for some reason people dont attribute that mass of crying as anything serious because BL/infestor was actually pretty strong EDIT: Seriously, look at this thread. Everybody complaining about bl/infestor. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On July 09 2013 14:07 TheRabidDeer wrote: Lol, not trying to instigate anything. Just saying that suddenly protoss complaining about the past and GSL's and champions and terrans and BL/infestor etc. Honestly, terran and protoss bitched a ton at the end of WoL but for some reason people dont attribute that mass of crying as anything serious because BL/infestor was actually pretty strong EDIT: Seriously, look at this thread. Everybody complaining about bl/infestor. That's because even during the era of BL/Infestor Zergs were still the most vocal when it came to balance whining. As hard as that is to believe. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On July 09 2013 14:30 Vindicare605 wrote: That's because even during the era of BL/Infestor Zergs were still the most vocal when it came to balance whining. As hard as that is to believe. Were they, though? Do you have some statistics about that? Some data? Some hard information? Or is it your perception? | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On July 09 2013 13:52 TheRabidDeer wrote: You kind of had to survive until BL/infestor though. Which was really easy after the queen patch. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20295 Posts
That's because even during the era of BL/Infestor Zergs were still the most vocal when it came to balance whining. As hard as that is to believe. ^Sadly probably the truth. I think zerg whining in 2010/2011 was justified to some extent, toss with 1-1-1 on xelnaga back in those builds before 10 sec shorter obs, +1 range immortal, smaller maps were just silly also And, TvZ after queen patch. I didn't judge it too much for a month or two but it got pretty ridiculous I think zerg did the most unjust whining though, it's surprisingly rare to meet a zerg player (at least at low master) that is not incredibly arrogant and biased at least in my opinion, and people like IdrA put the views in many peoples minds that zerg was somehow the weakest race while they were clearly dominant | ||
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
Z: Tends to complain the most. This stems from the way the race is designed I feel. Of all the races they are probably the most susceptible to early game losses to small amounts of opponents units. A lot of times the games don't end however, the Z just ends up playing out a game from extremely far behind they have little hope of winning. These types of games are probably the most frustrating to play. Additionally Z has never really had a lot of great early game options to pressure their opponent forcing them to play a more reactive style which can be frustrating if you predict your opponents moves wrong (early game options aside from all ins). T: Started out wings with unlimited tools, and had a lot of great powerful options. Through meta game shifts and balance nerfs they had a lot of those toys taken away. I think this has lead to a lot of T's feeling like blizzard hates them or something, so they've gotten a lot more protective of their toys. Which is why you saw T's flood forums in defense of the hellbat when blizzard even started to talk about it being to strong. Yes I'm aware some more intellectual people came out against it but that's sort of the same with most race changes. P: Toss has always been in this weird state of balance, I think partially because of the warp gate mechanic. Very early on 2 gates / 4 gates was extremely strong, but as those things got figured out toss had to reinvent it's meta. I think part of the reason you see toss as more silent early and mid wings was because they'd have powerful builds show their head just often enough to keep them mostly content. Toss were in wings extremely vocal about Mutas however. HoTS seems more of the same with powerful builds coming out just often enough you see toss mostly quiet, only expressing rather specific concerns. | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On July 09 2013 12:00 TT1 wrote: not gonna lie, i voted zerg for everything The pros have spoken. Let the QQ commence. Also, just gonna put it out there that Zerg tears during the Immo/sentry all in era of the won/won/won sustained me for quite some time  . | ||
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MaxField
United States2386 Posts
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Ordained
United States779 Posts
On July 09 2013 09:52 Master of DalK wrote: So even Zergs think Zergs seem to express opinions the most lol A player of any race can go through and vote in any of these. Hardly conclusive evidence. | ||
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Zenatsu
100 Posts
and if you're a zerg, dont read questions. Vote zerg because zerg! | ||
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Rainling
United States456 Posts
On July 09 2013 14:38 Nerski wrote:+ Show Spoiler + If I had to give some logically reasoning to why thing skew the way they do. Z: Tends to complain the most. This stems from the way the race is designed I feel. Of all the races they are probably the most susceptible to early game losses to small amounts of opponents units. A lot of times the games don't end however, the Z just ends up playing out a game from extremely far behind they have little hope of winning. These types of games are probably the most frustrating to play. Additionally Z has never really had a lot of great early game options to pressure their opponent forcing them to play a more reactive style which can be frustrating if you predict your opponents moves wrong (early game options aside from all ins). T: Started out wings with unlimited tools, and had a lot of great powerful options. Through meta game shifts and balance nerfs they had a lot of those toys taken away. I think this has lead to a lot of T's feeling like blizzard hates them or something, so they've gotten a lot more protective of their toys. Which is why you saw T's flood forums in defense of the hellbat when blizzard even started to talk about it being to strong. Yes I'm aware some more intellectual people came out against it but that's sort of the same with most race changes. P: Toss has always been in this weird state of balance, I think partially because of the warp gate mechanic. Very early on 2 gates / 4 gates was extremely strong, but as those things got figured out toss had to reinvent it's meta. I think part of the reason you see toss as more silent early and mid wings was because they'd have powerful builds show their head just often enough to keep them mostly content. Toss were in wings extremely vocal about Mutas however. HoTS seems more of the same with powerful builds coming out just often enough you see toss mostly quiet, only expressing rather specific concerns. I think that's pretty accurate. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On July 09 2013 14:32 bo1b wrote: It's funny because the winrates in proleague atm are worse then they've ever been and nobody gives a shit about that lol. That 45% winrate for tvz at the end of wol looks amazing compared to the >60% in the last three rounds of proleague. HotS http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statistics 50.3% in favor of Terran (on game off perfect 50-50) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_WCS_Season_1_Korea_GSL/Code_S_Statistics 51.43% in favor of Terran (one game off perfect 50-50) overall around 50% End of Wings in GSL http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_1/Code_S_Statistics 39.47% in favor of Zerg http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5/Code_S_Statistics 34.62% in favor of Zerg Overall around 35-40% in favor of Zerg But it's definitely more imbalanced in favor of Terran now than it was in Zerg's favor back in Wings  | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
On July 09 2013 15:17 Pursuit_ wrote: + Show Spoiler + HotS http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statistics 50.3% in favor of Terran (on game off perfect 50-50) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_WCS_Season_1_Korea_GSL/Code_S_Statistics 51.43% in favor of Terran (one game off perfect 50-50) overall around 50% End of Wings in GSL http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_1/Code_S_Statistics 39.47% in favor of Zerg http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5/Code_S_Statistics 34.62% in favor of Zerg Overall around 35-40% in favor of Zerg But it's definitely more imbalanced in favor of Terran now than it was in Zerg's favor back in Wings those stats were updated round 2, here are the overall hots stats tvz is at 61,8% pvz at 57,4% tvp at 51,5% | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 09 2013 14:30 Vindicare605 wrote: That's because even during the era of BL/Infestor Zergs were still the most vocal when it came to balance whining. As hard as that is to believe. You're obviously blocking out the months where every single thread, regardless of topic, would always loop around to Queens or BL/Infestor. It was impossible to have any kind of SC2 conversation without it ending in whine about Zerg OP, or how some player was a Patchzerg...and the discussion got there it never, ever left. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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