Meta - Official discussion and VOD thread - Page 71

On February 04 2014 23:55 SC2Toastie wrote:
I typed this episode of Meta out while watching. Some people might like it. I paraphrased most comments! Please let me know if you like it, because it took quite some effort



META by Artosis: Episode #23 - Summary by ToastieNL
Broadcasted: 4.2.2014


People involved in Episode #23
Artosis, ToD, PiG, Dayshi
+ Show Spoiler [more detailed] +

Starts with a small introduction, Protoss OP jokes, Swarmhosts, Brazil has a high temperature. Too many subjects to cover everything, according to mr. Tosis. Hydra 25 gas jokes. TLO Shoutout "stupidest thing ever seen".

New Patch!
Time Warp cost to 100 from 75, Mobius Reactor build in.
> Dayshi thinks Time Warp change wont help, Ghost change barely does anything - Blizzard is looking at the wrong place. Protoss has a lot of options and that needs adjusting.
> Tod thinks the Time Warp change is good, but agrees this plus Ghost buff doesn't change a lot in TvP. Tod also thinks there are too many options. MSC Vision should be reduced in Tods opinion, you can get too much information and be too safe (cut too many corners) with it.
> Dayshi agrees the vision reduction will help. "every nerf you can think is great". Doesn't think it would be enough. Dayshi wants more scouting possibilities verse Protoss. Information is never really conclusive, it what he seems to mean.
> Artosis jokes flying depots to scout, Dayshi thinks barracks scouts might actually be something.
> Pig thinks the protoss imba nerf nerf attitutude is exaggerated, but there is a fundemental issue with the Mothership Core, too much Utility. He compares it to the WOL Infestor - too good, has too many uses and works in too many ways. It scouts, defends, attacks, provides vision, too much use for a unit that comes at the start of the game and it shuts down the early game and forces midgame.
> ToD talks about Protoss being the most Warcraft III-esque unit. "Spells and heroes are pretty good against macro-races"
> Some jokes about leveling up the MSC
> Artosis: "Is this a problem unit or are we gonna find a middle ground?"
> Pig compares to the infestor again, take away the abilities that are really game changing and it's suddenly a lot less powerful. Another possible approach is to balance too many options for one race by opening more options for other races, according to Pig.
> Artosis brings up the Queen buff, where the MSC became a Protoss equivalent of the WOL Queen vs the Hellions. DOes Terran need an equal to this in LotV?
> Pig wonders what that could be, changing for example the mule, but he thinks it starts to go more towards Warcraft not Starcraft.
> Warhound jokes ensue.
> Dayshi calls every nerf a good nerf.
> Pig talks about how Protoss all ins benefit from the vision in PvZ more than you see at first sight.
> Tod says it's indeed mostly against Terran if the vision gets reduced

Conclusion: Everybody agrees to nerf Mothership Core Vision Range by "2/3/4/5". (Toastienote: current vision is 14, normal air vision is 11, normal ground vision is 9)

Terran verse Zerg Hellbats!
The resurgence of a lot more Hellbats against Zerg instead of Mines. Is this random or is it a new style?
> PiG says it happens on Korean Ladder often. Mostly on Heavy Rain
> Dayshi thinks mines are better, it might come up, but Dayshi is not convinced.
> PiG continues about Heavy Rain being a counter attack map. The push through the center is easier with Hellbats. Sometimes there's a few mines. A lot of players start going for Thors really quickly. The army moves slightly slower and wants to be well spread, but when well positioned, it's a lot stronger than the Biomine army. Zerg needs to avoid the army as much as possible. It becomes a push and pull battle that requires more counterattacks, Terran relies more on drops to keep Zerg in their base.
> Dayshi asks if the push feels slower.
> Pig says it's a "feeling".
> Dayshi thinks Mines are a lot slower, Hellbats can just "go for it". Dayshi thinks big maps are better for hellbats and small maps for widow mines, and takes a polar opposite on Pig.
> Pig thinks flanks are stronger verse Hellbats and that is why it is better on small maps. Hellbats need to protect the Marines at all costs and the army can't afford getting flanked.

Artosis shifts the subject to Mech!
> Pig thinks it creates exciting games! DRG vs Flash on Sejong and Maru vs Soulkey games are some of the most epic matches he's seen. He thinks mech isn't that powerful in lategame.
> Artosis thinks the new mech players (Bbyong, Cure, Bravo, etc.) are more well versed verse the lategame Zerg arsenal like Hosts, Vipers and mass muta. Mech lategame looks more develloped.
> Pig talks about easy 4-bases being important. Mutalisk, Roaches are strong in counter attacking while Hosts pressure the front. Mech still seems to rely on the first attack with hellion banshee or blueflame, no damage means Terran is far behind. Banshees are really good, he says, defensive and forcing Zerg AA.
> Dayshi doesn't try mech because he thinks it's boring. He loves the aggresive bio style because it is 'skill based'. Mech is more about strategy. He doesn't want to face swarmhosts.
> Tod jumps in and says he hasn't seen TvZ too much. It looks entertaining. There's different styles - Turtlemech, that he finds highly boring. Aggressive mech is cool to see.

Next topic: IEM Sao Paolo
> Tod: Nice tournament, seemed to be not so stacked, but a lot of Koreans popped up. Some upsets, Bbyong bombing out, high level games with the rise of Protoss. He highly advises the PvP finals! MC surprised him and plays really well.
> Artosis liked how MC still has good results after the less competitive early GSL days.
> Tod talks about MC vs cjHerO again, 5 epic games. He's really enthousiastic! A very educative series.
> Artosis gives a shoutout to TLO
> Pig is a CJHero Fanboy, his PvZ is disgusting, he has really deep understanding of it.
> Tod asks about Habitation Station Bomber vs TLO
> Pig says TLO played superb. Great opening, he was ahead, careful, perfect countering of Bombers style. Cool game.
> Dayshi talks about ABomb vs Bbyong, it perfectly describes the problems with the matchup right now. Abomb has little right to kill one of the 3 Code S Terrans. Funny comment he read: every upset in the game always has a Terran losing unexpectedly.
> Artosis finds it an 'interesting concept'.
> Tod says most upsets involve Protoss winning.
> Some patchtoss Hotstoss jokes
> Tod talks about not too many changes being done since the complaints about Protoss. He questions the comments. Why and How did Protoss become so strong? His only answer is that Protoss finally woke up.
> Artosis agrees. Protosses are finally figuring out to play Protoss better and better. Finally Protoss is less about micro, it's more about strategy (compares 2010 MC to 2014 CJHero).
> Dayshi thinks it's about the amount of hard to spot strategies. Terran and Zerg did nothing new for months, Protoss added a lot of new builds to their arsenal recently. Protoss "just learned the metagame and now that they understand how the game is played they can destroy the races".
> Tod talks about how each player knows the other races as well a lot better than before. He mentions how before some Zergs had great injects, now it is more across the board - the same happened with Protoss (forcefields, hallucination scouts).
> Pig talks about how earlier he could do anything against Protoss with good injects, after months Protosses became a lot better and a lot more refinement is needed. PvZ is not imbalanced for sure, there's enough variety. PvT might be a different story. TvP Hero in the world is Maru, Marine Marauder all day, no ghosts, a viking every now and then.
> Tod: Polt played the same style and went 2-1 vs Hero. Major did siminal things versus Abomb. The new TvP might be mass bio with 3 fronts all game long.

SUbject shifts to ASUS ROG. San plays really well and Life played like shit, according to Artosis.
> Pig agrees. Life played bad.
> Tod: San makes a lot of Zergs look terrible. San was overdue for a win.
> Artosis says the San the man gate is a great Build Order.
> Dayshi mentions ForGG having a great run. All his games are great.
> Artosis asks about ForGG vs Jaedong.
> Dayshi mentions mech, mass drops, made it look pretty easy with a perfectly executed standard style.
> Pig says ForGG made Jaedong look 'sloppy'. Biomine, outmultitasking.
> Dayshi advises ForGG vs Jaedong on Habitation Station.
> Tod talks about disappointments in the tournament. Jaedong recently looked weaker, same thing for Taeja and Hero, but only in Asus ROG.
> Dayshi talks about Taeja leaving early a couple of times.
> Pig gives props to Serral.
> Artosis is impressed. Serral is a "future zerg" Toastienote: Probably just got cursed muahaha >.<. Also called "Future Foreign Hope"
> Pig talks about San building an impressive reputation with the best Protoss verse Zerg.
> Artosis agrees - San vs Life on Alterzim was a great game, the best display of defensive Protoss.

Artosis starts about the concept of 'taking time off to play better'.
> Pig thinks Jaedong looks a bit off. It's already starting to improve. He probably took time off during Christmas. Question posed: How much time do you take off to maximize gains in skill? Burning out before important tournaments, putting too much pressure on yourself, clearing your mindset. Mentions students being better before they go fulltime.
> Dayshi thinks it is interesting and important. Taking time off improves your play, he feels like. He agrees students seem to do better than full timers. You get 'stuck in the game' if you don't take a break.
> Tod talks about Koreans never playing 24/7. They have a lot of nights out drinking.
> Artosis talks about SC2 and SC1 practice regiments. Players burned out at rapid rates, but the players who could cope with it played the best possible (Flash, Jaedong).
> Tod says it has pros, it has cons, a lot of people don't reasile you shouldn't do the same thing all the time. Sports, girlfriend, he has battlefield 4 to take your mind completely of starcraft.
Artosis plays to much Heartstone jokes ensue
> Dayshi says ForGG just practices, doesn't go out. He is either a machino or has the right mindset.
> Artosis says he is an MSL champion and CAN do that.
> Dayshi says SC2 is less mechanical - mindset is more important, unlike SC1.
More Heartstone jokes.
> Artosis during Broodwar was into Smash Brothers, Mario Kart.
> Pig goes running to relax.
> Tod talks about autopilot messing with the new builds you can come up with. For Tod it happens during a shower.
> Artosis tries to not think about his new ideas, go to sleep, and the next morning he has produced a new fresh outlook. Artosis feels like TLO is the one pro that tries to figure out this concept the most.
> Pig says he copies TLO's schedule a bit. Koreans see more detail by focussing on the smaller parts, most foreigners miss small details and can't cut edges as well as Koreans can. Starcraft is a matter of refining the basics.
> Tod says figuring out why you lost is the most important. Living a healthy lifestyle helps!
> Dayshi: Progamers have no normal life, no normal time schedule. It is personal in his opinion, you have to know your mind and body well.
> Artosis talks about the basics, he's been thinking about that. Savior and Nestea revolutionised the way Zerg was played and both were 2v2 players at first. You focus more on basics and don't tech up too much.
> Pig mentions the importance of custom games. Sitting and practicing with other people gives you much more understanding of the other races.

Artosis starts closing out. Shoutouts ensue. Meta's back next week!