• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:35
CEST 16:35
KST 23:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202569RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced9BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
What tournaments are world championships? #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Server Blocker The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 WardiTV Mondays FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Simple editing of Brood War save files? (.mlx) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food!
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 625 users

Blizzard's Potential Balance Test Map Changes - Page 49

Forum Index > SC2 General
1113 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 47 48 49 50 51 56 Next
OkStyX
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1199 Posts
April 29 2013 05:47 GMT
#961
On April 29 2013 14:29 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 13:55 Rabiator wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:46 ETisME wrote:
I feel the poll is a bit too simple so I made this one which should shred light more onto people's opinion on the ZvZ change:

Buffs are the way in which Blizzard seems to try and fix things, but they are not. They need to look at what they changed and then adjust the power level of that accordingly.

It does not make sense to have a game achieve balance (which I dont think it did in WoL) and then add new stuff that is more powerful than the old stuff. If you do that you have to rebalance everything else too instead of just the new things, so every boost to an old unit has to be balanced out by a negative thing or it will require countless adjustments of the other units in the game in a never ending cycle.

Buffs make the game faster and more "explosive" and this is a bad thing, because in the end we will have a game that is only playable by professionals but not by "Joe Average". Personally I think it has gone too far already ...

I don't think there will be any unit rework at a level like what we had for infestors fungal change in WoL anytime soon.
So their tools are only unit changes with stats.

I should also have been a bit more clear in the poll:
buff/nerf will also affect other matchups


the muta buff allowed them to be viable in the matchup again maybe there is something we can do but i dont feel buffs should be used outside of allowing a unit to be viable .
Team Overklocked Gaming! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12387 Posts
April 29 2013 05:50 GMT
#962
On April 29 2013 14:47 Shakattak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 14:29 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:55 Rabiator wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:46 ETisME wrote:
I feel the poll is a bit too simple so I made this one which should shred light more onto people's opinion on the ZvZ change:

Buffs are the way in which Blizzard seems to try and fix things, but they are not. They need to look at what they changed and then adjust the power level of that accordingly.

It does not make sense to have a game achieve balance (which I dont think it did in WoL) and then add new stuff that is more powerful than the old stuff. If you do that you have to rebalance everything else too instead of just the new things, so every boost to an old unit has to be balanced out by a negative thing or it will require countless adjustments of the other units in the game in a never ending cycle.

Buffs make the game faster and more "explosive" and this is a bad thing, because in the end we will have a game that is only playable by professionals but not by "Joe Average". Personally I think it has gone too far already ...

I don't think there will be any unit rework at a level like what we had for infestors fungal change in WoL anytime soon.
So their tools are only unit changes with stats.

I should also have been a bit more clear in the poll:
buff/nerf will also affect other matchups


the muta buff allowed them to be viable in the matchup again maybe there is something we can do but i dont feel buffs should be used outside of allowing a unit to be viable .

that muta buff was given due to changes and inclusion of the new hots units. there were no other major reworked unit other than infestors imo.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
OkStyX
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1199 Posts
April 29 2013 06:00 GMT
#963
On April 29 2013 14:50 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 14:47 Shakattak wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:29 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:55 Rabiator wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:46 ETisME wrote:
I feel the poll is a bit too simple so I made this one which should shred light more onto people's opinion on the ZvZ change:

Buffs are the way in which Blizzard seems to try and fix things, but they are not. They need to look at what they changed and then adjust the power level of that accordingly.

It does not make sense to have a game achieve balance (which I dont think it did in WoL) and then add new stuff that is more powerful than the old stuff. If you do that you have to rebalance everything else too instead of just the new things, so every boost to an old unit has to be balanced out by a negative thing or it will require countless adjustments of the other units in the game in a never ending cycle.

Buffs make the game faster and more "explosive" and this is a bad thing, because in the end we will have a game that is only playable by professionals but not by "Joe Average". Personally I think it has gone too far already ...

I don't think there will be any unit rework at a level like what we had for infestors fungal change in WoL anytime soon.
So their tools are only unit changes with stats.

I should also have been a bit more clear in the poll:
buff/nerf will also affect other matchups


the muta buff allowed them to be viable in the matchup again maybe there is something we can do but i dont feel buffs should be used outside of allowing a unit to be viable .

that muta buff was given due to changes and inclusion of the new hots units. there were no other major reworked unit other than infestors imo.

would you consider the hydralisk reworked ?
Team Overklocked Gaming! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-29 06:09:24
April 29 2013 06:09 GMT
#964
Muta are fine. I just think they should have less HP now that they regen that fast. 90 HP mutalisks would make the players very cautious with them, and in a head to head fight with stalkers, they'd die. Storms would hit them way harder, and only 3 fungles would be needed instead of 4. Which means that adding infestors to the muta ball would be way more viable.

We shouldnt want ZvZ to stop being muta war. Because the more powerful unit on ground is the swarmhost, we would have SH war instead of muta war. And just imagine the nightmare it'd be...
Chr15t
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark1103 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-29 06:14:41
April 29 2013 06:11 GMT
#965
I dont know - balance seems pretty good atm.. i want to give it more time.

biggest surprice is that medivacs arent the main concern lol

EDIT: if something is done to nerf mutas stat-wise to improve zvz . TvZ will be in need of a rebalance aswell - since mutas are pretty much THE way to deal with drops
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
April 29 2013 06:18 GMT
#966
If they buff oracle speed they REALLY need to reduce the research time on Blink. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure PvProleague will be all Stargate vs Stargate. :/
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12387 Posts
April 29 2013 06:32 GMT
#967
On April 29 2013 15:00 Shakattak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 14:50 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:47 Shakattak wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:29 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:55 Rabiator wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:46 ETisME wrote:
I feel the poll is a bit too simple so I made this one which should shred light more onto people's opinion on the ZvZ change:

Buffs are the way in which Blizzard seems to try and fix things, but they are not. They need to look at what they changed and then adjust the power level of that accordingly.

It does not make sense to have a game achieve balance (which I dont think it did in WoL) and then add new stuff that is more powerful than the old stuff. If you do that you have to rebalance everything else too instead of just the new things, so every boost to an old unit has to be balanced out by a negative thing or it will require countless adjustments of the other units in the game in a never ending cycle.

Buffs make the game faster and more "explosive" and this is a bad thing, because in the end we will have a game that is only playable by professionals but not by "Joe Average". Personally I think it has gone too far already ...

I don't think there will be any unit rework at a level like what we had for infestors fungal change in WoL anytime soon.
So their tools are only unit changes with stats.

I should also have been a bit more clear in the poll:
buff/nerf will also affect other matchups


the muta buff allowed them to be viable in the matchup again maybe there is something we can do but i dont feel buffs should be used outside of allowing a unit to be viable .

that muta buff was given due to changes and inclusion of the new hots units. there were no other major reworked unit other than infestors imo.

would you consider the hydralisk reworked ?

My idea is that:
WoL had no other units reworked that was as major as infestors did, it was almost a role change for the unit.
Other nerf/buff was simply a change in stats and not a complete change in its role. (other than ghost snipe nerf maybe)

The new hots changes like hydras, muta etc are all taken in account of the new units and other units change. So yes, they were reworked for Hots, but they are NOT reworked in Hots. I don't think we will be seeing any of these role changing level of change so soon.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
April 29 2013 06:32 GMT
#968
On April 29 2013 14:50 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 14:47 Shakattak wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:29 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:55 Rabiator wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:46 ETisME wrote:
I feel the poll is a bit too simple so I made this one which should shred light more onto people's opinion on the ZvZ change:

Buffs are the way in which Blizzard seems to try and fix things, but they are not. They need to look at what they changed and then adjust the power level of that accordingly.

It does not make sense to have a game achieve balance (which I dont think it did in WoL) and then add new stuff that is more powerful than the old stuff. If you do that you have to rebalance everything else too instead of just the new things, so every boost to an old unit has to be balanced out by a negative thing or it will require countless adjustments of the other units in the game in a never ending cycle.

Buffs make the game faster and more "explosive" and this is a bad thing, because in the end we will have a game that is only playable by professionals but not by "Joe Average". Personally I think it has gone too far already ...

I don't think there will be any unit rework at a level like what we had for infestors fungal change in WoL anytime soon.
So their tools are only unit changes with stats.

I should also have been a bit more clear in the poll:
buff/nerf will also affect other matchups


the muta buff allowed them to be viable in the matchup again maybe there is something we can do but i dont feel buffs should be used outside of allowing a unit to be viable .

that muta buff was given due to changes and inclusion of the new hots units. there were no other major reworked unit other than infestors imo.


The muta buff was caused by mines dealing AA damage, and it did not take into the account the effect it would have in the other two matchups (or didn't do it well enough).
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
April 29 2013 06:36 GMT
#969
On April 29 2013 15:32 Teoita wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 14:50 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:47 Shakattak wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:29 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:55 Rabiator wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:46 ETisME wrote:
I feel the poll is a bit too simple so I made this one which should shred light more onto people's opinion on the ZvZ change:

Buffs are the way in which Blizzard seems to try and fix things, but they are not. They need to look at what they changed and then adjust the power level of that accordingly.

It does not make sense to have a game achieve balance (which I dont think it did in WoL) and then add new stuff that is more powerful than the old stuff. If you do that you have to rebalance everything else too instead of just the new things, so every boost to an old unit has to be balanced out by a negative thing or it will require countless adjustments of the other units in the game in a never ending cycle.

Buffs make the game faster and more "explosive" and this is a bad thing, because in the end we will have a game that is only playable by professionals but not by "Joe Average". Personally I think it has gone too far already ...

I don't think there will be any unit rework at a level like what we had for infestors fungal change in WoL anytime soon.
So their tools are only unit changes with stats.

I should also have been a bit more clear in the poll:
buff/nerf will also affect other matchups


the muta buff allowed them to be viable in the matchup again maybe there is something we can do but i dont feel buffs should be used outside of allowing a unit to be viable .

that muta buff was given due to changes and inclusion of the new hots units. there were no other major reworked unit other than infestors imo.


The muta buff was caused by mines dealing AA damage, and it did not take into the account the effect it would have in the other two matchups (or didn't do it well enough).


I think it's fine that the ZvZ has become a muta war. Because, if it had to be a ground war like in WoL, it'd be Swarmhost war. And these free units fights are so silly... No please.

So the buff of muta saved us from ZvZ being a free units war, its ok. Anyway, if teching to infestors was less risky, muta war would be more exiting : fungle + muta fights could be really fun to watch. And there would be a lot of micro involved.
Talack
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada2742 Posts
April 29 2013 06:40 GMT
#970
On April 29 2013 15:18 megapants wrote:
If they buff oracle speed they REALLY need to reduce the research time on Blink. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure PvProleague will be all Stargate vs Stargate. :/


No thanks, blink all-ins are plenty strong as they are
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
April 29 2013 06:58 GMT
#971
it'd be Swarmhost war.

No, it wont. Banelings can counter Locusts and give you time to reach swarm hosts
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
April 29 2013 06:59 GMT
#972
On April 29 2013 15:58 Existor wrote:
Show nested quote +
it'd be Swarmhost war.

No, it wont. Banelings can counter Locusts and give you time to reach swarm hosts


Back in the beta days, i played infestors/swarmhosts/spines/spores. Never lost against roach/hydra/bane.

Its just too cost effective.
OkStyX
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1199 Posts
April 29 2013 06:59 GMT
#973
On April 29 2013 15:32 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 15:00 Shakattak wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:50 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:47 Shakattak wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:29 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:55 Rabiator wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:46 ETisME wrote:
I feel the poll is a bit too simple so I made this one which should shred light more onto people's opinion on the ZvZ change:

Buffs are the way in which Blizzard seems to try and fix things, but they are not. They need to look at what they changed and then adjust the power level of that accordingly.

It does not make sense to have a game achieve balance (which I dont think it did in WoL) and then add new stuff that is more powerful than the old stuff. If you do that you have to rebalance everything else too instead of just the new things, so every boost to an old unit has to be balanced out by a negative thing or it will require countless adjustments of the other units in the game in a never ending cycle.

Buffs make the game faster and more "explosive" and this is a bad thing, because in the end we will have a game that is only playable by professionals but not by "Joe Average". Personally I think it has gone too far already ...

I don't think there will be any unit rework at a level like what we had for infestors fungal change in WoL anytime soon.
So their tools are only unit changes with stats.

I should also have been a bit more clear in the poll:
buff/nerf will also affect other matchups


the muta buff allowed them to be viable in the matchup again maybe there is something we can do but i dont feel buffs should be used outside of allowing a unit to be viable .

that muta buff was given due to changes and inclusion of the new hots units. there were no other major reworked unit other than infestors imo.

would you consider the hydralisk reworked ?

My idea is that:
WoL had no other units reworked that was as major as infestors did, it was almost a role change for the unit.
Other nerf/buff was simply a change in stats and not a complete change in its role. (other than ghost snipe nerf maybe)

The new hots changes like hydras, muta etc are all taken in account of the new units and other units change. So yes, they were reworked for Hots, but they are NOT reworked in Hots. I don't think we will be seeing any of these role changing level of change so soon.

okay but you realize that the infestor was initially changed because of the playstyle of protoss was brutal vs. zerg players and we needed something to counter that . it just turns out that other tweaks to the game such as nerfs to terran and other buffs caused the major problems that we saw with the infestor . i hope we dont see something like this happen in hots, units should always have a role to play but i don't seem problems with laser wars in pvp or muta in zvz the reason these matchups are so odd is how the macro works there are also ideal unit comps to combat your own race . I really think the infestor is the root of the problem in the matchup. it needs to be changed make fungal easier to use vs mutas by making it insta cast but make the "root" a slow instead so you can hit mutas but it wont be the end for the muta player if he can escape , this will fix the infestor in other matchups to.
Team Overklocked Gaming! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
April 29 2013 07:02 GMT
#974
On April 29 2013 15:32 Teoita wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 14:50 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:47 Shakattak wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:29 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:55 Rabiator wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:46 ETisME wrote:
I feel the poll is a bit too simple so I made this one which should shred light more onto people's opinion on the ZvZ change:

Buffs are the way in which Blizzard seems to try and fix things, but they are not. They need to look at what they changed and then adjust the power level of that accordingly.

It does not make sense to have a game achieve balance (which I dont think it did in WoL) and then add new stuff that is more powerful than the old stuff. If you do that you have to rebalance everything else too instead of just the new things, so every boost to an old unit has to be balanced out by a negative thing or it will require countless adjustments of the other units in the game in a never ending cycle.

Buffs make the game faster and more "explosive" and this is a bad thing, because in the end we will have a game that is only playable by professionals but not by "Joe Average". Personally I think it has gone too far already ...

I don't think there will be any unit rework at a level like what we had for infestors fungal change in WoL anytime soon.
So their tools are only unit changes with stats.

I should also have been a bit more clear in the poll:
buff/nerf will also affect other matchups


the muta buff allowed them to be viable in the matchup again maybe there is something we can do but i dont feel buffs should be used outside of allowing a unit to be viable .

that muta buff was given due to changes and inclusion of the new hots units. there were no other major reworked unit other than infestors imo.


The muta buff was caused by mines dealing AA damage, and it did not take into the account the effect it would have in the other two matchups (or didn't do it well enough).


Blizzards official comment was that it was done because of the infestor nerfs to make Lair tech units better afaik.
OkStyX
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1199 Posts
April 29 2013 07:02 GMT
#975
On April 29 2013 15:58 Existor wrote:
Show nested quote +
it'd be Swarmhost war.

No, it wont. Banelings can counter Locusts and give you time to reach swarm hosts

absolutely not you are advocating trading gas for absolutely nothing , the truth is you cannot trade vs free units , period . if i have 60 locusts kill even one of your banelings i traded efficiently there and you did not .
Team Overklocked Gaming! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
OkStyX
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1199 Posts
April 29 2013 07:04 GMT
#976
On April 29 2013 15:09 Insoleet wrote:
Muta are fine. I just think they should have less HP now that they regen that fast. 90 HP mutalisks would make the players very cautious with them, and in a head to head fight with stalkers, they'd die. Storms would hit them way harder, and only 3 fungles would be needed instead of 4. Which means that adding infestors to the muta ball would be way more viable.

We shouldnt want ZvZ to stop being muta war. Because the more powerful unit on ground is the swarmhost, we would have SH war instead of muta war. And just imagine the nightmare it'd be...

no because mutas would still exist and locusts cant shoot up
Team Overklocked Gaming! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-29 07:08:23
April 29 2013 07:06 GMT
#977
On April 29 2013 16:04 Shakattak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 15:09 Insoleet wrote:
Muta are fine. I just think they should have less HP now that they regen that fast. 90 HP mutalisks would make the players very cautious with them, and in a head to head fight with stalkers, they'd die. Storms would hit them way harder, and only 3 fungles would be needed instead of 4. Which means that adding infestors to the muta ball would be way more viable.

We shouldnt want ZvZ to stop being muta war. Because the more powerful unit on ground is the swarmhost, we would have SH war instead of muta war. And just imagine the nightmare it'd be...

no because mutas would still exist and locusts cant shoot up


Spores + infestors + weakened muta = SH cant be hit.

And I was saying, people want muta wars to stop : i say we shouldnt want that. Because no muta war = Swarmhost war.
OkStyX
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1199 Posts
April 29 2013 07:09 GMT
#978
On April 29 2013 15:36 Insoleet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 15:32 Teoita wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:50 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:47 Shakattak wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:29 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:55 Rabiator wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:46 ETisME wrote:
I feel the poll is a bit too simple so I made this one which should shred light more onto people's opinion on the ZvZ change:

Buffs are the way in which Blizzard seems to try and fix things, but they are not. They need to look at what they changed and then adjust the power level of that accordingly.

It does not make sense to have a game achieve balance (which I dont think it did in WoL) and then add new stuff that is more powerful than the old stuff. If you do that you have to rebalance everything else too instead of just the new things, so every boost to an old unit has to be balanced out by a negative thing or it will require countless adjustments of the other units in the game in a never ending cycle.

Buffs make the game faster and more "explosive" and this is a bad thing, because in the end we will have a game that is only playable by professionals but not by "Joe Average". Personally I think it has gone too far already ...

I don't think there will be any unit rework at a level like what we had for infestors fungal change in WoL anytime soon.
So their tools are only unit changes with stats.

I should also have been a bit more clear in the poll:
buff/nerf will also affect other matchups


the muta buff allowed them to be viable in the matchup again maybe there is something we can do but i dont feel buffs should be used outside of allowing a unit to be viable .

that muta buff was given due to changes and inclusion of the new hots units. there were no other major reworked unit other than infestors imo.


The muta buff was caused by mines dealing AA damage, and it did not take into the account the effect it would have in the other two matchups (or didn't do it well enough).


I think it's fine that the ZvZ has become a muta war. Because, if it had to be a ground war like in WoL, it'd be Swarmhost war. And these free units fights are so silly... No please.

So the buff of muta saved us from ZvZ being a free units war, its ok. Anyway, if teching to infestors was less risky, muta war would be more exiting : fungle + muta fights could be really fun to watch. And there would be a lot of micro involved.

there would never be a swarm host war in zvz even if mutas were nerfed . if you go swarm hosts then i go mutas and you cant defend with them.
Team Overklocked Gaming! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-29 07:13:29
April 29 2013 07:12 GMT
#979
On April 29 2013 16:09 Shakattak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 15:36 Insoleet wrote:
On April 29 2013 15:32 Teoita wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:50 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:47 Shakattak wrote:
On April 29 2013 14:29 ETisME wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:55 Rabiator wrote:
On April 29 2013 13:46 ETisME wrote:
I feel the poll is a bit too simple so I made this one which should shred light more onto people's opinion on the ZvZ change:

Buffs are the way in which Blizzard seems to try and fix things, but they are not. They need to look at what they changed and then adjust the power level of that accordingly.

It does not make sense to have a game achieve balance (which I dont think it did in WoL) and then add new stuff that is more powerful than the old stuff. If you do that you have to rebalance everything else too instead of just the new things, so every boost to an old unit has to be balanced out by a negative thing or it will require countless adjustments of the other units in the game in a never ending cycle.

Buffs make the game faster and more "explosive" and this is a bad thing, because in the end we will have a game that is only playable by professionals but not by "Joe Average". Personally I think it has gone too far already ...

I don't think there will be any unit rework at a level like what we had for infestors fungal change in WoL anytime soon.
So their tools are only unit changes with stats.

I should also have been a bit more clear in the poll:
buff/nerf will also affect other matchups


the muta buff allowed them to be viable in the matchup again maybe there is something we can do but i dont feel buffs should be used outside of allowing a unit to be viable .

that muta buff was given due to changes and inclusion of the new hots units. there were no other major reworked unit other than infestors imo.


The muta buff was caused by mines dealing AA damage, and it did not take into the account the effect it would have in the other two matchups (or didn't do it well enough).


I think it's fine that the ZvZ has become a muta war. Because, if it had to be a ground war like in WoL, it'd be Swarmhost war. And these free units fights are so silly... No please.

So the buff of muta saved us from ZvZ being a free units war, its ok. Anyway, if teching to infestors was less risky, muta war would be more exiting : fungle + muta fights could be really fun to watch. And there would be a lot of micro involved.

there would never be a swarm host war in zvz even if mutas were nerfed . if you go swarm hosts then i go mutas and you cant defend with them.


but infestors are in the same techpath as swarmhost. If i could just go infestation pit every game, swarmhost would beat roach/hydra, infestors would beat muta.

Atm infestation pit first is not viable, and its fine.
OkStyX
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1199 Posts
April 29 2013 07:16 GMT
#980
On April 29 2013 16:06 Insoleet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 16:04 Shakattak wrote:
On April 29 2013 15:09 Insoleet wrote:
Muta are fine. I just think they should have less HP now that they regen that fast. 90 HP mutalisks would make the players very cautious with them, and in a head to head fight with stalkers, they'd die. Storms would hit them way harder, and only 3 fungles would be needed instead of 4. Which means that adding infestors to the muta ball would be way more viable.

We shouldnt want ZvZ to stop being muta war. Because the more powerful unit on ground is the swarmhost, we would have SH war instead of muta war. And just imagine the nightmare it'd be...

no because mutas would still exist and locusts cant shoot up


Spores + infestors + weakened muta = SH cant be hit.

And I was saying, people want muta wars to stop : i say we shouldnt want that. Because no muta war = Swarmhost war.


then just change the infestor like i have already said so its a slow and bring back instacast. so it is not a immediate loss if you do get fungaled if its a slow it awards the muta player for splitting their units while it also deters just mass muta wars while allowing you to keep muta counts low allowing you to go hydras if you so desire .
Team Overklocked Gaming! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
Prev 1 47 48 49 50 51 56 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14:00
Bracket Day 1
LiquipediaDiscussion
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Master Swan Open #94
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .357
BRAT_OK 90
ProTech74
MindelVK 30
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 55093
Bisu 3452
Horang2 2906
Flash 2047
Shuttle 1838
Barracks 1490
Jaedong 1219
EffOrt 1213
BeSt 1077
firebathero 446
[ Show more ]
Larva 348
Nal_rA 322
ToSsGirL 201
Soma 182
Soulkey 165
GuemChi 139
sorry 132
Last 111
Rush 100
Hyun 77
Light 67
Sea.KH 57
Shinee 46
Dewaltoss 43
sas.Sziky 39
JYJ38
Aegong 25
scan(afreeca) 21
sSak 20
zelot 17
Terrorterran 14
IntoTheRainbow 9
Stormgate
BeoMulf113
Dota 2
Gorgc5866
qojqva2824
XaKoH 462
XcaliburYe386
420jenkins291
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m2701
sgares268
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor336
Other Games
singsing2109
B2W.Neo1683
Beastyqt788
Fuzer 247
kaitlyn51
KnowMe37
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH346
• Adnapsc2 18
• Dystopia_ 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3269
League of Legends
• Nemesis2502
Upcoming Events
CSO Cup
1h 26m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3h 26m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
18h 26m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
23h 26m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 3h
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Online Event
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL Team Wars
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.