those groups are not very balanced. Idra is looking pretty dead already, Scarlett and Major (the two best NA players) might not even make it out of the first round, meanwhile you got at least one out of Vibe, Theognis and Snute making it to ro16.
On April 17 2013 04:24 PiQLiQ wrote: Polt my friend~ win this ;_;
Polt's group looking really easy thus far, so long as he practices adequately. Sure, the qualifier spot is very much a wildcard, but still... I can't see how he could fail to advance.
the overall quality is still so low, i dont see the wisdom in inviting a few token koreans. either go for the quality route and invite anyone who deserves the place or go for the 'growing esports' route and only invite NA nationals.
right now we have 2/3 low level players who are just going to get smashed out of groups and be forgotton about, getting little to know decent practice/exposure. and 2/3 koreans who are going to smash their groups, and then lose in the world finals due to lacking a decent practice environment.
On April 17 2013 04:30 turdburgler wrote: the overall quality is still so low, i dont see the wisdom in inviting a few token koreans. either go for the quality route and invite anyone who deserves the place or go for the 'growing esports' route and only invite NA nationals.
right now we have 2/3 low level players who are just going to get smashed out of groups and be forgotton about, getting little to know decent practice/exposure. and 2/3 koreans who are going to smash their groups, and then lose in the world finals due to lacking a decent practice environment.
I dont think those Koreans will get smashed due to lacking decent practice.. They get to play from online and when they do have to come to NYC for the studio matches it's only a short time right?
On April 17 2013 04:19 Schelim wrote: those groups are not very balanced. Idra is looking pretty dead already, Scarlett and Major (the two best NA players) might not even make it out of the first round, meanwhile you got at least one out of Vibe, Theognis and Snute making it to ro16.
You what? Snute is better than most of the players in those groups.
I bet idras regretting instantly leaving every tvz he ever gets on the ladder. who am i kidding no he isn't, groups dont look very fun atm, too easy to tell whos going to advance
Group 1: HerO + Random Korean Group 2: Scarlett + Violet Group 3: Polt + Random Korean Group 4: Ryung + Random Korean Group 5: Nestea + Random Korean Group 6: Snute + Random Korean Group 7: Sen + Random Korean Group 8: mOOnGLaDe + Random Korean
On April 17 2013 04:51 LighT. wrote: I think its silly that Taeja
Why would taeja be seeded? That would mean it would be possible for him to be playing both GSL (if he gets far this season) and WCS NA s1 at the same time. No one is allowed to play in both regions simultaneously.
I feel like it's already pretty easy to predict one person who will certainly advance and one that will certainly drop out in almost every group. Chances are ro32 will consist of one-sided stomps most of the time
On April 17 2013 04:57 Waxangel wrote: If you didnt' vote group 1, then you're probably North American
I don't know man, MajOr is always a wildcard because we barely see any play from him... and HerO isn't that hot these days. :S
Hot enough to sweep his group without dropping a map any day.
That doesn't make it much of a group of death though, even assuming you're right. :S
Oh, yeah it doesn't. Scarlett + Violet seems harder to me because Scarlett is like the only NA player who might get out of the group even if another Korean joins.
On April 17 2013 04:30 turdburgler wrote: the overall quality is still so low, i dont see the wisdom in inviting a few token koreans. either go for the quality route and invite anyone who deserves the place or go for the 'growing esports' route and only invite NA nationals.
right now we have 2/3 low level players who are just going to get smashed out of groups and be forgotton about, getting little to know decent practice/exposure. and 2/3 koreans who are going to smash their groups, and then lose in the world finals due to lacking a decent practice environment.
I dont think those Koreans will get smashed due to lacking decent practice.. They get to play from online and when they do have to come to NYC for the studio matches it's only a short time right?
i thought they said you had to be in the correct continent to actually play wcs?
On April 17 2013 04:57 Waxangel wrote: If you didnt' vote group 1, then you're probably North American
I don't know man, MajOr is always a wildcard because we barely see any play from him... and HerO isn't that hot these days. :S
Well, MaJOr was probably the best player on NA before he went to Korea to train with a Kespa team so I'm not so sure he's a 'wildcard'
I've always been a fan of him because of his training ethic and watching his games you can kind of see the same talent that Artosis saw in him from the beginning. The problem is that he hasn't really achieved much when pitted against opponents outside of Mexico/Latin America. So from that standpoint he is very much a wildcard, we won't know if his performance will finally be the breakout or merely underwhelming. :s
Poor Idra placed in a group vs Polt and then Gowser who has beaten him consistently. And now that ZvZ is muta wars i don't think he stands much of a chance. Hopefully for him the fourth person will be someone easy so he doesnt drop out of the league so quickly.
On April 17 2013 05:36 zeratul_jf wrote: Poor Idra placed in a group vs Polt and then Gowser who has beaten him consistently. And now that ZvZ is muta wars i don't think he stands much of a chance. Hopefully for him the fourth person will be someone easy so he doesnt drop out of the league so quickly.
It's ok, Polt is a terrible player according to Idra, so he should be able to beat him.
On April 17 2013 05:36 zeratul_jf wrote: Poor Idra placed in a group vs Polt and then Gowser who has beaten him consistently. And now that ZvZ is muta wars i don't think he stands much of a chance. Hopefully for him the fourth person will be someone easy so he doesnt drop out of the league so quickly.
It's ok, Polt is a terrible player according to Idra, so he should be able to beat him.
Yeah because that has gone so well for IdrA in the past...
On April 17 2013 05:36 zeratul_jf wrote: Poor Idra placed in a group vs Polt and then Gowser who has beaten him consistently. And now that ZvZ is muta wars i don't think he stands much of a chance. Hopefully for him the fourth person will be someone easy so he doesnt drop out of the league so quickly.
It's ok, Polt is a terrible player according to Idra, so he should be able to beat him.
Yeah because that has gone so well for IdrA in the past...
to this day i wonder how idra can have so many fans. he's the total opposite of boxer...does this mean boxer fans and idra fans are total opposites too?
Why does everyone think Goswser is so mediocre? He's easily one of the top, if not the top, American player. Easily a favorite over Idra and wouldn't be surprised to see him hold his own against Polt.
On April 17 2013 05:36 zeratul_jf wrote: Poor Idra placed in a group vs Polt and then Gowser who has beaten him consistently. And now that ZvZ is muta wars i don't think he stands much of a chance. Hopefully for him the fourth person will be someone easy so he doesnt drop out of the league so quickly.
It's ok, Polt is a terrible player according to Idra, so he should be able to beat him.
On April 17 2013 05:36 zeratul_jf wrote: Poor Idra placed in a group vs Polt and then Gowser who has beaten him consistently. And now that ZvZ is muta wars i don't think he stands much of a chance. Hopefully for him the fourth person will be someone easy so he doesnt drop out of the league so quickly.
It's ok, Polt is a terrible player according to Idra, so he should be able to beat him.
Yeah because that has gone so well for IdrA in the past...
to this day i wonder how idra can have so many fans. he's the total opposite of boxer...does this mean boxer fans and idra fans are total opposites too?
There's a significant portion of the community that likes rage, bm, etc and idra was the first to capitalize on this and use it to market himself.
Idra fans are so funny, I don't see how Group 3 is a group of death, a group of death is supposed to be close. If there's 2 players that are clearly have an edge there's no group of death. In this case, most likely scenario says Polt 1st Goswser 2nd place.
Unless a good player comes from the qualifier there's no reason for Group 3 to be considered a group of death.
Group 1 is a much, much closer battle for 2nd place, even group 7 is harder.
On April 17 2013 06:31 mordk wrote: Idra fans are so funny, I don't see how Group 3 is a group of death, a group of death is supposed to be close. If there's 2 players that are clearly have an edge there's no group of death. In this case, most likely scenario says Polt 1st Goswser 2nd place.
Unless a good player comes from the qualifier there's no reason for Group 3 to be considered a group of death.
Group 1 is a much, much closer battle for 2nd place, even group 7 is harder.
I think its fair to assume the player from the qualifier will be pretty good. That's usually how it goes anyway.
On April 17 2013 06:31 mordk wrote: Idra fans are so funny, I don't see how Group 3 is a group of death, a group of death is supposed to be close. If there's 2 players that are clearly have an edge there's no group of death. In this case, most likely scenario says Polt 1st Goswser 2nd place.
Unless a good player comes from the qualifier there's no reason for Group 3 to be considered a group of death.
Group 1 is a much, much closer battle for 2nd place, even group 7 is harder.
I think its fair to assume the player from the qualifier will be pretty good. That's usually how it goes anyway.
Still, there are a good number of better candidates for group of death. People overrate Idra's chances.
On April 17 2013 06:31 mordk wrote: Idra fans are so funny, I don't see how Group 3 is a group of death, a group of death is supposed to be close. If there's 2 players that are clearly have an edge there's no group of death. In this case, most likely scenario says Polt 1st Goswser 2nd place.
Unless a good player comes from the qualifier there's no reason for Group 3 to be considered a group of death.
Group 1 is a much, much closer battle for 2nd place, even group 7 is harder.
I think its fair to assume the player from the qualifier will be pretty good. That's usually how it goes anyway.
Still, there are a good number of better candidates for group of death. People overrate Idra's chances.
I think Idra has no shot at advancing and I would still say that its likely to be the hardest group. Polt and Goswser both should make the top 8 in this tournament unless the qualifiers are all insanely good, in which case, this group would have a very good player added to it.
I'd be interested in which groups you see as harder than this when you consider that they will all have a 4th player.
On April 17 2013 06:31 mordk wrote: Idra fans are so funny, I don't see how Group 3 is a group of death, a group of death is supposed to be close. If there's 2 players that are clearly have an edge there's no group of death. In this case, most likely scenario says Polt 1st Goswser 2nd place.
Unless a good player comes from the qualifier there's no reason for Group 3 to be considered a group of death.
Group 1 is a much, much closer battle for 2nd place, even group 7 is harder.
I think its fair to assume the player from the qualifier will be pretty good. That's usually how it goes anyway.
Still, there are a good number of better candidates for group of death. People overrate Idra's chances.
When don't they? He couldn't even beat Minigun to get into MLG. Yet people are voting his group a "group of death". It's laughable. These groups just yet again show the importance of qualifiers. I honestly would not be surprised if every single player who manages to qualify makes it through these groups. Except maybe Group 2, Scarlett and Violet are no joke.
Only thing Idra has going for him is that ZvZ is his best matchup, so he might be able to beat Goswser. But really, it's going to be Polt + the qualified Korean that gets out.
One of the great things about this format is if you bomb the first online round, you don't have to pay for your travel to New York if you don't think you will go undefeated that is.
On April 17 2013 07:09 Nazeron wrote: i think idra will beat goswser, i dunno about polt though
In theory he should be able to study polt a bit, since he streams a lot(but turns off VODs). I have hopes for Idra just as long as he keeps his head straight.
The groups weren't made entirely at random, right? There's a clear pattern.
Sen, moonglade and snute were probably put in the same pool as the koreans when making the groups, that's really "fortunate" for them. I can't say I like groups being made deliberately by MLG.
On April 17 2013 07:24 bertu wrote: The groups weren't made entirely at random, right? There's a clear pattern.
Sen, moonglade and snute were probably put in the same pool as the koreans when making the groups, that's really "fortunate" for them. I can't say I like groups being made deliberately by MLG.
yeah bceause doing random groups would be so good for competition
On April 17 2013 07:24 bertu wrote: The groups weren't made entirely at random, right? There's a clear pattern.
Sen, moonglade and snute were probably put in the same pool as the koreans when making the groups, that's really "fortunate" for them. I can't say I like groups being made deliberately by MLG.
yeah it's 2 American region invites and 1 nonamerican invite per group
On April 17 2013 07:24 bertu wrote: The groups weren't made entirely at random, right? There's a clear pattern.
Sen, moonglade and snute were probably put in the same pool as the koreans when making the groups, that's really "fortunate" for them. I can't say I like groups being made deliberately by MLG.
yeah bceause doing random groups would be so good for competition
If this is the order of the groups, by putting the Koreans always in the last place, they made sure that the additional player who comes from the qualifier, who will likely be Korean, plays the Korean in the first round in the GSL format, thus ensuring that a Korean always goes to the loser's match.
That's a good way to stack the competition in favor of foreigners.
On April 17 2013 07:24 bertu wrote: The groups weren't made entirely at random, right? There's a clear pattern.
Sen, moonglade and snute were probably put in the same pool as the koreans when making the groups, that's really "fortunate" for them. I can't say I like groups being made deliberately by MLG.
yeah bceause doing random groups would be so good for competition
It wouldn't be great for viewers, but it would be more fair for the players.
I am not against a seeding system, as long as there is an objective, skill-based criteria for seeding. Maybe there was one for this tournament, but nothing was published.
I mean, there is a gigantic advantage being placed in the same seed position as the korean players. You can argue that scarlett, huk and idra are better players than sen, moonglade and snute and should have that advantage if the seeding was skill based. If there was a point system based on results that showed the later to be better, that would be fine as well. I don't like deliberate seeding in a tournament, for the sake of integrity.
Making an arbitrary criteria (NA citizens., non-NA citizens) ended up being really unfair to the good NA players and fortunate as fuck for non-NA. That's even against the spirit of hosting regional based WCS.
On April 17 2013 04:19 Schelim wrote: those groups are not very balanced. Idra is looking pretty dead already, Scarlett and Major (the two best NA players) might not even make it out of the first round, meanwhile you got at least one out of Vibe, Theognis and Snute making it to ro16.
Well Vibe is technically in the top two best NA players as he finished second to Scarlett at WCS NA. Not to mention Snute is probably better than Major (beating Life at IPL/winning Homestory as compared to achievements of Major.)
[QUOTE]On April 17 2013 07:34 bertu wrote: [QUOTE]On April 17 2013 07:27 nkr wrote: [QUOTE]On April 17 2013 07:24 bertu wrote: You can argue that scarlett, huk and idra are better players than sen, moonglade and snute [/QUOTE]
What possible argument can you make for Sen not being better than all of the above exactly?
On April 17 2013 07:24 bertu wrote: The groups weren't made entirely at random, right? There's a clear pattern.
Sen, moonglade and snute were probably put in the same pool as the koreans when making the groups, that's really "fortunate" for them. I can't say I like groups being made deliberately by MLG.
yeah bceause doing random groups would be so good for competition
If this is the order of the groups, by putting the Koreans always in the last place, they made sure that the additional player who comes from the qualifier, who will likely be Korean, plays the Korean in the first round in the GSL format, thus ensuring that a Korean always goes to the loser's match.
That's a good way to stack the competition in favor of foreigners.
Because they know thats what brings in the most viewers basically. Whenever a good foreigner goes up against a korean.
[QUOTE]On April 17 2013 08:02 Irre wrote: [QUOTE]On April 17 2013 07:34 bertu wrote: [QUOTE]On April 17 2013 07:27 nkr wrote: [QUOTE]On April 17 2013 07:24 bertu wrote: You can argue that scarlett, huk and idra are better players than sen, moonglade and snute [/QUOTE]
What possible argument can you make for Sen not being better than all of the above exactly? [/QUOTE]
I personally think that Sen is better than all of the above and he would deserve a skill-based seed (idra and huk had historically better results, but that was along ago; scarlett was really close to him in recent skill). The problem is that reason he got the korean seed isn't necessarily because he was better. It happened to be a coincidence. You can't say the same about moonglade and snute, for sure.
Jaedong, TheStC, aLive, Oz, Alicia, Revival, and Center are still out their for the qualifiers this season among others. It'll be interesting to see where they land.
On April 17 2013 08:19 asdfOu wrote: people underestimating Fenix is pretty much underestimating LG-IM's practice environment
I'm pretty sure Fenix is in Peru. He also just came back after taking a break from bad wrists and being sick I believe
On April 17 2013 08:20 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Well,
Jaedong, TheStC, aLive, Oz, Alicia, Revival, and Center are still out their for the qualifiers this season among others. It'll be interesting to see where they land.
hey only 7 names listed. I guess Demuslim has a shot, although there's still Miya, Heart, and Crank from Axiom who could all make a decent run in a NA qualifier
On April 17 2013 08:20 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Well,
Jaedong, TheStC, aLive, Oz, Alicia, Revival, and Center are still out their for the qualifiers this season among others. It'll be interesting to see where they land.
hey only 7 names listed. I guess Demuslim has a shot, although there's still Miya, Heart, and Crank from Axiom who could all make a decent run in a NA qualifier
among others
I just listed the 7 that immediately jump out at me. They're probably the best of the remaining players although several others could easily make it in over them.
The qualifiers I think are really going to change the balance of these groups, but right now there are definitely some groups that look waaaaaay easier than others.
Group 3 is all easily GM players who could top one of the other groups. Why are people voting group 2 as the GoD when State would have to have the worst group possible to advance?
I am going to assume this is not the full groups until the qualifiers are so it is pretty silly to ask for a group of death. Since some of these groups look more clear cut without all the information...
On April 17 2013 09:15 Rostam wrote: Artosis is going to have a tough time advancing but being in all 8 groups should give him a decent shot. I'll be rooting for him.
On April 17 2013 09:14 R3DT1D3 wrote: Group 3 is all easily GM players who could top one of the other groups. Why are people voting group 2 as the GoD when State would have to have the worst group possible to advance?
Umm... what? Am I the only one who didn't understand this at all?
On April 17 2013 09:14 R3DT1D3 wrote: Group 3 is all easily GM players who could top one of the other groups. Why are people voting group 2 as the GoD when State would have to have the worst group possible to advance?
Umm... what? Am I the only one who didn't understand this at all?
I think hes saying Gowser and Idra could top any other group? which is a good joke lol. the 2nd part about state no idea
To what its worth : Ladderrankings dont say much. Yes polt crushes everyone on na ladder (and idra too). But idra can prepare, make a nce bo-win against polt etc. Hopefully, players are gonna analyse eachother and come up with insane to watch strategies customfit to there opponents!
On April 17 2013 09:50 govie wrote: To what its worth : Ladderrankings dont say much. Yes polt crushes everyone on na ladder (and idra too). But idra can prepare, make a nce bo-win against polt etc. Hopefully, players are gonna analyse eachother and come up with insane to watch strategies customfit to there opponents!
#freeforall!
How can you make a nice build order win (that will actually win you the game no matter what) against a player who has infinate better unit control and understanding of the game than yourself? Idra won't 6 pool, and Polt will identify overly greedy play right away. And no, this is not ment as an insult to Idra, it's ment as a praise for Polt. Unless Polt decides to chop off three of his fingers on his left hand before the matches, I can't see Idra even take a game off of him. Don't forget, Polt was actually far closer to beating Life than Flash ever was; I really think he is the best or the second best Terran player in the world at the moment.
On April 17 2013 09:50 govie wrote: To what its worth : Ladderrankings dont say much. Yes polt crushes everyone on na ladder (and idra too). But idra can prepare, make a nce bo-win against polt etc. Hopefully, players are gonna analyse eachother and come up with insane to watch strategies customfit to there opponents!
#freeforall!
How can you make a nice build order win (that will actually win you the game no matter what) against a player who has infinate better unit control and understanding of the game than yourself? Idra won't 6 pool, and Polt will identify overly greedy play right away. And no, this is not ment as an insult to Idra, it's ment as a praise for Polt. Unless Polt decides to chop off three of his fingers on his left hand before the matches, I can't see Idra even take a game off of him.
On April 17 2013 09:50 govie wrote: To what its worth : Ladderrankings dont say much. Yes polt crushes everyone on na ladder (and idra too). But idra can prepare, make a nce bo-win against polt etc. Hopefully, players are gonna analyse eachother and come up with insane to watch strategies customfit to there opponents!
#freeforall!
How can you make a nice build order win (that will actually win you the game no matter what) against a player who has infinate better unit control and understanding of the game than yourself? Idra won't 6 pool, and Polt will identify overly greedy play right away. And no, this is not ment as an insult to Idra, it's ment as a praise for Polt. Unless Polt decides to chop off three of his fingers on his left hand before the matches, I can't see Idra even take a game off of him.
Do u ever watch PL?
Yes, I've been following Starcraft since 1999.
Yes, you can snipe other players, but as far as I know Idra will be living on his own, at least for some time, which means he has to cook up a stategy all by himself. And as he has said before, that isn't his style at all. What could he do that can throw Polt off guard? Baneling busts? I've still not seen that work on Polt, even when he's playing cross server against the best korean GM players. Roach rush? The same. Rush up to Hive and Ultras? Good luck.
Be my guest, he might of course be able to do that, but I'm not under the belief that Christmas lasts until Easter.
On April 17 2013 09:50 govie wrote: To what its worth : Ladderrankings dont say much. Yes polt crushes everyone on na ladder (and idra too). But idra can prepare, make a nce bo-win against polt etc. Hopefully, players are gonna analyse eachother and come up with insane to watch strategies customfit to there opponents!
#freeforall!
How can you make a nice build order win (that will actually win you the game no matter what) against a player who has infinate better unit control and understanding of the game than yourself? Idra won't 6 pool, and Polt will identify overly greedy play right away. And no, this is not ment as an insult to Idra, it's ment as a praise for Polt. Unless Polt decides to chop off three of his fingers on his left hand before the matches, I can't see Idra even take a game off of him.
Do u ever watch PL?
Yes, I've been following Starcraft since 1999.
Yes, you can snipe other players, but as far as I know Idra will be living on his own, at least for some time, which means he has to cook up a stategy all by himself. And as he has said before, that isn't his style at all. What could he do that can throw Polt off guard? Baneling busts? I've still not seen that work on Polt, even when he's playing cross server against the best korean GM players. Roach rush? The same. Rush up to Hive and Ultras? Good luck.
Be my guest, he might of course be able to do that, but I'm not under the belief that Christmas lasts until Easter.
I was not focussing on Idra specifically, but more in general (my fault, should have made that more clear). I am hoping players are gonna focus there strats+mapchoices on there opponents.
On April 17 2013 09:50 govie wrote: To what its worth : Ladderrankings dont say much. Yes polt crushes everyone on na ladder (and idra too). But idra can prepare, make a nce bo-win against polt etc. Hopefully, players are gonna analyse eachother and come up with insane to watch strategies customfit to there opponents!
#freeforall!
How can you make a nice build order win (that will actually win you the game no matter what) against a player who has infinate better unit control and understanding of the game than yourself? Idra won't 6 pool, and Polt will identify overly greedy play right away. And no, this is not ment as an insult to Idra, it's ment as a praise for Polt. Unless Polt decides to chop off three of his fingers on his left hand before the matches, I can't see Idra even take a game off of him.
Do u ever watch PL?
Yes, I've been following Starcraft since 1999.
Yes, you can snipe other players, but as far as I know Idra will be living on his own, at least for some time, which means he has to cook up a stategy all by himself. And as he has said before, that isn't his style at all. What could he do that can throw Polt off guard? Baneling busts? I've still not seen that work on Polt, even when he's playing cross server against the best korean GM players. Roach rush? The same. Rush up to Hive and Ultras? Good luck.
Be my guest, he might of course be able to do that, but I'm not under the belief that Christmas lasts until Easter.
I was not focussing on Idra specifically, but more in general (my fault, should have made that more clear). I am hoping players are gonna focus there strats+mapchoices on there opponents.
Agreed. I really feel that a guy like Major could have an advantage here. Not only is he a really skilled player (skill for skill I'd rank him as one of the absolute best foreigners), he has also learned preparing the Kespa-way. I also hope that Demuslim will a) cut down his streaming time and/or b) stop saving VODs. He's such a talented chap, and I would hate him losing to some silly all in (he has been having some troubles against Protoss-players that proxies stuff).
And I'm rooting for Kane to go through the qualifiers. Such a nice guy
On April 17 2013 09:50 govie wrote: To what its worth : Ladderrankings dont say much. Yes polt crushes everyone on na ladder (and idra too). But idra can prepare, make a nce bo-win against polt etc. Hopefully, players are gonna analyse eachother and come up with insane to watch strategies customfit to there opponents!
#freeforall!
How can you make a nice build order win (that will actually win you the game no matter what) against a player who has infinate better unit control and understanding of the game than yourself? Idra won't 6 pool, and Polt will identify overly greedy play right away. And no, this is not ment as an insult to Idra, it's ment as a praise for Polt. Unless Polt decides to chop off three of his fingers on his left hand before the matches, I can't see Idra even take a game off of him.
Do u ever watch PL?
Yes, I've been following Starcraft since 1999.
Yes, you can snipe other players, but as far as I know Idra will be living on his own, at least for some time, which means he has to cook up a stategy all by himself. And as he has said before, that isn't his style at all. What could he do that can throw Polt off guard? Baneling busts? I've still not seen that work on Polt, even when he's playing cross server against the best korean GM players. Roach rush? The same. Rush up to Hive and Ultras? Good luck.
Be my guest, he might of course be able to do that, but I'm not under the belief that Christmas lasts until Easter.
I was not focussing on Idra specifically, but more in general (my fault, should have made that more clear). I am hoping players are gonna focus there strats+mapchoices on there opponents.
Agreed. I really feel that a guy like Major could have an advantage here. Not only is he a really skilled player (skill for skill I'd rank him as one of the absolute best foreigners), he has also learned preparing the Kespa-way. I also hope that Demuslim will a) cut down his streaming time and/or b) stop saving VODs. He's such a talented chap, and I would hate him losing to some silly all in (he has been having some troubles against Protoss-players that proxies stuff).
And I'm rooting for Kane to go through the qualifiers. Such a nice guy
Maybe not an allin but unitcomp aswell. But lets say your terran and u face mvp. What are his rescent results against mech and biotank. To what unitcomp+bo does he loose in tournaments and proleague. U can gain alot of info and use that
Like, against stephano i would play biomine 100% every game (just because we all know he hates mines)....
On April 17 2013 11:18 MVTaylor wrote: People do realise they'll be casting the qualifiers from replays, yes?
Yes, it is quite shitty that we will have to suffer through selected replays days later. It is nice to see things as they happen, like with the EU qualifiers at the moment, makes things more exciting. Especially since it's not like MLG hasn't done community streams before...but o well, we will not get nearly as much coverage as EU did
On April 17 2013 09:50 govie wrote: To what its worth : Ladderrankings dont say much. Yes polt crushes everyone on na ladder (and idra too). But idra can prepare, make a nce bo-win against polt etc. Hopefully, players are gonna analyse eachother and come up with insane to watch strategies customfit to there opponents!
#freeforall!
How can you make a nice build order win (that will actually win you the game no matter what) against a player who has infinate better unit control and understanding of the game than yourself? Idra won't 6 pool, and Polt will identify overly greedy play right away. And no, this is not ment as an insult to Idra, it's ment as a praise for Polt. Unless Polt decides to chop off three of his fingers on his left hand before the matches, I can't see Idra even take a game off of him.
Do u ever watch PL?
Yes, I've been following Starcraft since 1999.
Yes, you can snipe other players, but as far as I know Idra will be living on his own, at least for some time, which means he has to cook up a stategy all by himself. And as he has said before, that isn't his style at all. What could he do that can throw Polt off guard? Baneling busts? I've still not seen that work on Polt, even when he's playing cross server against the best korean GM players. Roach rush? The same. Rush up to Hive and Ultras? Good luck.
Be my guest, he might of course be able to do that, but I'm not under the belief that Christmas lasts until Easter.
Because living on your own means you can't talk and practice with other people!
I've seen people post Aligulac numbers before. I don't really understand how it works exactly, and I didn't know anyone can just mess around with it without needing to know code or learning how to use it. It's actually quite simple to use, just input the player names and bam, it gives you the results.
I don't think using Artosis as the 4th player is the best way to look at how the groups might pan out because it's likely that the players who qualify for the Premier division will be very good players, and likely Korean.
Using this list of Koreans who are signing up for NA region, I compared on Aligulac the ones who weren't already given Premier seeds, and tried to determine who would be a fitting generic 4th player. A player who is likely to win through the qualifiers to get a premier seed, but not the very best, someone who sits slightly higher than the middle of that list. From playing around on Aligulac, there are a few players like this: Revival, TheStC, Alive, Crank, Zenio, and Alicia all have pretty even Aligulac scores. All solid players, no one would be surprised of one of they qualified.
So instead of Artosis, let's see what happens when we put TheStC, Revival, and Alicia (one of each race) as the 4th player in each group.
One question I have though, is who plays who first? In the GSL or "Swiss" group format, who you play first is quite important. Not playing the toughest opponent in the group greatly increases your chances of getting out of said group. Look at how they've listed the players in the announcement: the strongest player in the group is always listed 3rd. Does that mean that the qualified player is matched up against them in group play? Or when the 4th player is announced, will they shuffle the names again?
Conclusions: They've done an admirable job of spreading around the Koreans as to not make a group of death. If 8/8 of the qualifier players are Korean, which I think at this point is not a terrible bet to make, we're looking at about 12 Koreans in the top 16.
The numbers indicate that these foreigners have a decent chance of making it out of their groups:
Group 1: Killer Group 2: Scarlett Group 3: Goswser or IdrA (but not both) Group 4: Suppy Group 5: - Group 6: Snute, and possibly theognis Group 7: Sen, and possibly HuK Group 8: Moonglade
On April 17 2013 10:27 Zzoram wrote: Huk lucks out with groups yet again. It'll be good to see him at a LAN again.
Really? Getting a group with Sen is lucky?
When the other options include HerO, viOLet, Polt, Ryung, Nestea, and Scarlett, yes, I would wager HuK is feeling pretty lucky right now.
you greatly underrate Sen my friend. I'd put him above Nestea and Scarlett without question. He has beaten HerO before. And he definitely could beat viOLet, Polt, and Ryung. Sen is a sick good player.
I've seen people post Aligulac numbers before. I don't really understand how it works exactly, and I didn't know anyone can just mess around with it without needing to know code or learning how to use it. It's actually quite simple to use, just input the player names and bam, it gives you the results.
I don't think using Artosis as the 4th player is the best way to look at how the groups might pan out because it's likely that the players who qualify for the Premier division will be very good players, and likely Korean.
Using this list of Koreans who are signing up for NA region, I compared on Aligulac the ones who weren't already given Premier seeds, and tried to determine who would be a fitting generic 4th player. A player who is likely to win through the qualifiers to get a premier seed, but not the very best, someone who sits slightly higher than the middle of that list. From playing around on Aligulac, there are a few players like this: Revival, TheStC, Alive, Crank, Zenio, and Alicia all have pretty even Aligulac scores. All solid players, no one would be surprised of one of they qualified.
So instead of Artosis, let's see what happens when we put TheStC, Revival, and Alicia (one of each race) as the 4th player in each group.
One question I have though, is who plays who first? In the GSL or "Swiss" group format, who you play first is quite important. Not playing the toughest opponent in the group greatly increases your chances of getting out of said group. Look at how they've listed the players in the announcement: the strongest player in the group is always listed 3rd. Does that mean that the qualified player is matched up against them in group play? Or when the 4th player is announced, will they shuffle the names again?
The reason I used artosis is because you can not run a 4-way swiss tournament style (or w.e it's called) with only 3 people....And because I didnt know how to do them with a nul (blank person), I used one of the lowest ranked people, so that it skews the results as little as possible (as if it were a blank)
IE. I wanted to see the predictions in the GSL style format for only the three people we know of for sure (of those 3 ppl who will be the most likely to make it out, since at least one of them will)...we don't know who the 4th will be, so I didn't bother trying that
On April 17 2013 08:19 bertu wrote: I personally think that Sen is better than all of the above and he would deserve a skill-based seed (idra and huk had historically better results, but that was along ago; scarlett was really close to him in recent skill). The problem is that reason he got the korean seed isn't necessarily because he was better. It happened to be a coincidence. You can't say the same about moonglade and snute, for sure.
There is no doubt in my mind Snute is better than Idra and HuK, and pretty close to Scarlett.
On April 17 2013 10:27 Zzoram wrote: Huk lucks out with groups yet again. It'll be good to see him at a LAN again.
Really? Getting a group with Sen is lucky?
When the other options include HerO, viOLet, Polt, Ryung, Nestea, and Scarlett, yes, I would wager HuK is feeling pretty lucky right now.
you greatly underrate Sen my friend. I'd put him above Nestea and Scarlett without question. He has beaten HerO before. And he definitely could beat viOLet, Polt, and Ryung. Sen is a sick good player.
Sen is great, but HuK definitely got one of the easier groups, though it may change depending on who makes it through the qualifier.
On April 17 2013 10:27 Zzoram wrote: Huk lucks out with groups yet again. It'll be good to see him at a LAN again.
Really? Getting a group with Sen is lucky?
When the other options include HerO, viOLet, Polt, Ryung, Nestea, and Scarlett, yes, I would wager HuK is feeling pretty lucky right now.
you greatly underrate Sen my friend. I'd put him above Nestea and Scarlett without question. He has beaten HerO before. And he definitely could beat viOLet, Polt, and Ryung. Sen is a sick good player.
I've liked Sen pretty much since the beta of WoL, especially since he randomly comes out of nowhere and gets 3rd in a tournament of Koreans.
But there's no way he's better than Nestea and probably not Scarlett either. I'd totally consider him the favorite of his group though.
On April 17 2013 10:27 Zzoram wrote: Huk lucks out with groups yet again. It'll be good to see him at a LAN again.
Really? Getting a group with Sen is lucky?
When the other options include HerO, viOLet, Polt, Ryung, Nestea, and Scarlett, yes, I would wager HuK is feeling pretty lucky right now.
you greatly underrate Sen my friend. I'd put him above Nestea and Scarlett without question. He has beaten HerO before. And he definitely could beat viOLet, Polt, and Ryung. Sen is a sick good player.
I've liked Sen pretty much since the beta of WoL, especially since he randomly comes out of nowhere and gets 3rd in a tournament of Koreans.
But there's no way he's better than Nestea and probably not Scarlett either. I'd totally consider him the favorite of his group though.
what have we seen from Nestea lately to suggest he is better than Sen? Let's be honest, Nestea hasn't been that great for a good while now. I think Scarlett is a great player, but Sen has posted better results throughout all of sc2.
On April 17 2013 10:27 Zzoram wrote: Huk lucks out with groups yet again. It'll be good to see him at a LAN again.
Really? Getting a group with Sen is lucky?
When the other options include HerO, viOLet, Polt, Ryung, Nestea, and Scarlett, yes, I would wager HuK is feeling pretty lucky right now.
you greatly underrate Sen my friend. I'd put him above Nestea and Scarlett without question. He has beaten HerO before. And he definitely could beat viOLet, Polt, and Ryung. Sen is a sick good player.
I've liked Sen pretty much since the beta of WoL, especially since he randomly comes out of nowhere and gets 3rd in a tournament of Koreans.
But there's no way he's better than Nestea and probably not Scarlett either. I'd totally consider him the favorite of his group though.
what have we seen from Nestea lately to suggest he is better than Sen? Let's be honest, Nestea hasn't been that great for a good while now. I think Scarlett is a great player, but Sen has posted better results throughout all of sc2.
3rd at Iron Squid II barely losing to DRG. You could even argue this is more impressive than Sen's path in WCS. He actually beat PartinG, where Sen got 3-0'd.
Made it back to code S which means he only missed 1 season throughout WoL. Sen has never managed anything but 2nd round code A.
In HotS, from what I understand he 2-0'd Sen and beat Sen's teammates in a 2v1 at the launch event in Taiwan.
Finally, outside of ZvT (where Sen may actually be better), Nestea flat out looks better in ZvZ and ZvP.
group 3 hardest by far, no1 here has got what it takes to beat Polt (based on recent achievements). Maybe nestea, mc or violet will be able to take a game off him, but overall their performance hasn't been very good lately, or at least good enough to beat polt. the rest won't even be a challange to him, i think.
On April 17 2013 14:50 Pandahunterz wrote: group 3 hardest by far, no1 here has got what it takes to beat Polt (based on recent achievements). Maybe nestea, mc or violet will be able to take a game off him, but overall their performance hasn't been very good lately, or at least good enough to beat polt. the rest won't even be a challange to him, i think.
Which is precisely why this isn't a group of death (disregarding what happens with qualifiers). There's a clear 1st spot (Polt), while there's enough evidence to assume Goswser is significantly better than Idra right now. This group will only become a semi GoD if a player of similar skill to Goswser qualifies. If a really good KR enters the group, then it's pretty clear Polt and said KR are going to go through this stage.
Also, while NesTea has been on the downfall for a long time now, there's no evidence to suggest how Sen compares to him. I think Sen is really good, and can beat most players in this tournament in a good day, but as far as comparison goes, there isn't much to look at.
On April 17 2013 04:30 turdburgler wrote: the overall quality is still so low, i dont see the wisdom in inviting a few token koreans. either go for the quality route and invite anyone who deserves the place or go for the 'growing esports' route and only invite NA nationals.
right now we have 2/3 low level players who are just going to get smashed out of groups and be forgotton about, getting little to know decent practice/exposure. and 2/3 koreans who are going to smash their groups, and then lose in the world finals due to lacking a decent practice environment.
Well, Blizzard said that next year, they'd like to do all events off line only to participate.
That means either two things for Koreans:
1. Either they have to move near where the tournament will be hosted to play in that tournament. In SotG, RootCatz mentions a good point with being fine if Koreans have to move to the Country they're in to play at that specific regional tournament (Koreans can help practice with foreigners, maybe in team houses there too, to help build the foreigner scene).
2. Or Koreans (with some sick sponsors) fly them back and forth from Korea to the WCS tournament whenever they have to play (which would probably be really really unlikely... not to mention they might as well just move there since most players have to play every week).
#2 is really unlikely but I only mention since technically it is possible >.>.
Goswser is 6-4 vs Polt. Last time he played Polt he barely lost 1-2 to him at MLG (and when I say barely, I mean he dropped the ball in a game he should have really won). The other sets he won 3-1 and 2-1.
So don't just automatically assume Polt is auto-win for his group ~.~
On April 17 2013 09:50 govie wrote: To what its worth : Ladderrankings dont say much. Yes polt crushes everyone on na ladder (and idra too). But idra can prepare, make a nce bo-win against polt etc. Hopefully, players are gonna analyse eachother and come up with insane to watch strategies customfit to there opponents!
#freeforall!
How can you make a nice build order win (that will actually win you the game no matter what) against a player who has infinate better unit control and understanding of the game than yourself? Idra won't 6 pool, and Polt will identify overly greedy play right away. And no, this is not ment as an insult to Idra, it's ment as a praise for Polt. Unless Polt decides to chop off three of his fingers on his left hand before the matches, I can't see Idra even take a game off of him.
Do u ever watch PL?
Yes, I've been following Starcraft since 1999.
Yes, you can snipe other players, but as far as I know Idra will be living on his own, at least for some time, which means he has to cook up a stategy all by himself. And as he has said before, that isn't his style at all. What could he do that can throw Polt off guard? Baneling busts? I've still not seen that work on Polt, even when he's playing cross server against the best korean GM players. Roach rush? The same. Rush up to Hive and Ultras? Good luck.
Be my guest, he might of course be able to do that, but I'm not under the belief that Christmas lasts until Easter.
Because living on your own means you can't talk and practice with other people!
On April 17 2013 17:21 HopLight wrote: So if I'm reading this right if Artosis got to play in all the groups he would have a 41,7% chance of making top 2 in at least one of the groups.
If u dont take the artosis pylons in the equation ... yes
On April 17 2013 04:19 Schelim wrote: those groups are not very balanced. Idra is looking pretty dead already, Scarlett and Major (the two best NA players) might not even make it out of the first round, meanwhile you got at least one out of Vibe, Theognis and Snute making it to ro16.
snute would make it out of any group without 2 koreans in it anyways (except with a top korean + scarlett/goswser since they are both good and it's zvz after all and even then i would give him a very good chance of advancing) vibe was rank 2 wcs NA as far as i know (not that that means that much but it's the NA WCS after all) and there is a good chance that a korean will fill the remaining slot so i don't understand what problem you have with that group just because there is no korean in it yet? i think you can safely say that snute is on the level of a code a korean
On April 17 2013 18:47 SniXSniPe wrote: Goswser is 6-4 vs Polt. Last time he played Polt he barely lost 1-2 to him at MLG (and when I say barely, I mean he dropped the ball in a game he should have really won). The other sets he won 3-1 and 2-1.
So don't just automatically assume Polt is auto-win for his group ~.~
Unfortunately this neat expansion called Heart of the Swarm came out.
On April 17 2013 18:47 SniXSniPe wrote: Goswser is 6-4 vs Polt. Last time he played Polt he barely lost 1-2 to him at MLG (and when I say barely, I mean he dropped the ball in a game he should have really won). The other sets he won 3-1 and 2-1.
So don't just automatically assume Polt is auto-win for his group ~.~
Unfortunately this neat expansion called Heart of the Swarm came out.
On April 17 2013 18:47 SniXSniPe wrote: Goswser is 6-4 vs Polt. Last time he played Polt he barely lost 1-2 to him at MLG (and when I say barely, I mean he dropped the ball in a game he should have really won). The other sets he won 3-1 and 2-1.
So don't just automatically assume Polt is auto-win for his group ~.~
Unfortunately this neat expansion called Heart of the Swarm came out.
uhh what, this was from the last mlg HOTS?
Suprising we got the groups for na so fast.
Polt didn't play Goswser at the last MLG.
If you're referring to Goswser vs Bomber then yes I will freely admit that Goswser has a decent chance of beating Polt should Polt kill his own army with a nuke.
On April 17 2013 04:19 Schelim wrote: those groups are not very balanced. Idra is looking pretty dead already, Scarlett and Major (the two best NA players) might not even make it out of the first round, meanwhile you got at least one out of Vibe, Theognis and Snute making it to ro16.
snute would make it out of any group without 2 koreans in it anyways (except with a top korean + scarlett/goswser since they are both good and it's zvz after all and even then i would give him a very good chance of advancing) vibe was rank 2 wcs NA as far as i know (not that that means that much but it's the NA WCS after all) and there is a good chance that a korean will fill the remaining slot so i don't understand what problem you have with that group just because there is no korean in it yet? i think you can safely say that snute is on the level of a code a korean
i don't know man. i think Snute is gonna crash and burn against any decent player (read: not the guys in that group) and i'm assuming he's gonna play from Europe and hence have lag. i don't know, i just don't think he has shown any results lately but maybe i just missed it.
On April 18 2013 04:11 Facimo wrote: where is demuslim can someone explain?
As far as I know:
They fucked up, forgot him for the invitations, made up several nonsense cover-reasons and decided against admitting that they made a mistake and should apologize: -----> demuslim will play the qualifiers.
I find it really sad that arguably the best non-korean NA player is not included in this tournament, and really hope that Demu can manage to qualify.
I don't understand why people are calling this so weak?... Almost all of these players are really strong... They aren't top GSL material for the most part, but the Koreans playing this aren't either....
HerO will probably win, but I wouldn't be surprised if KiLLeR and/or MajOr gives him trouble. viOLet is going to have a fuckin hard time and has a good chance to not advance.. I'd say he will, but still going to be so tough. Polt I can very easily see getting 3rd in this group of 4. NesTea should be able to take this, but Minigun and the 4th player might be able to take him out. Ryung got "lucky" with his group being the most unknown/easiest but if he's not careful he could get forced down. I can see the qualifier here getting 1st and Ryung fighting for 2nd.
Every group is a tossup, with some players having favorable odds. Just watch for yourself, I can guarantee you it's not going to be so one sided.
On April 17 2013 18:47 SniXSniPe wrote: Goswser is 6-4 vs Polt. Last time he played Polt he barely lost 1-2 to him at MLG (and when I say barely, I mean he dropped the ball in a game he should have really won). The other sets he won 3-1 and 2-1.
So don't just automatically assume Polt is auto-win for his group ~.~
Unfortunately this neat expansion called Heart of the Swarm came out.
uhh what, this was from the last mlg HOTS?
Suprising we got the groups for na so fast.
Polt didn't play Goswser at the last MLG.
If you're referring to Goswser vs Bomber then yes I will freely admit that Goswser has a decent chance of beating Polt should Polt kill his own army with a nuke.
THIS. plus didnt bomber hit some smaller groups of his own units a couple more times? =P Bomber went into fun-explosions-mode for that 1 game; the better player was clear.
[QUOTE]On April 18 2013 04:52 Shinta) wrote: I don't understand why people are calling this so weak?... Almost all of these players are really strong... They aren't top GSL material for the most part, but the Koreans playing this aren't either....
We call it weak because blizzard's new WCS system is telling us that this tournament is on par with GSL code S, and none of these players would or could make this season's GSL code S.
This what happens when you try to put the regions on equal footing when the players within those regions are nowhere near equal.
On April 18 2013 08:06 govie wrote: A fun fact : Did anyone believe that gumiho would 4-0 his group....
Whilst I don't disagree in your point, it's easy to forget that Gumiho probably was the best player in the world at some point last year, and you would have to be a complete donkey to not expect Gumiho, the best multitasker from ESF, get better results in Heart of the Swarm because of a) the raised skill ceiling and b) the medivac boost.
I mean, it was an upset, especially that he 4-0 his group, but it shouldn't be a huge surprise that he went through.
I think it's interesting how every group has two solid contenders for top of the group and one token player/up and comer who is basically the win pinata for the big boys.
On April 18 2013 09:03 BakedButters wrote: I hope Major improve a lot while his time in Korea. He seems so sad there, but I hope the dedication and grinding was worth it
On April 18 2013 09:03 BakedButters wrote: I hope Major improve a lot while his time in Korea. He seems so sad there, but I hope the dedication and grinding was worth it
He said he was happy there lol
Ya Major in Korea is like a dream come true for the guy. Regardless of Major's future success I'm so very happy for him to have achieved his lifelong goal of joining a KESPA team.
On April 18 2013 04:52 Shinta) wrote: I don't understand why people are calling this so weak?... Almost all of these players are really strong... They aren't top GSL material for the most part, but the Koreans playing this aren't either....
We call it weak because blizzard's new WCS system is telling us that this tournament is on par with GSL code S, and none of these players would or could make this season's GSL code S.
This what happens when you try to put the regions on equal footing when the players within those regions are nowhere near equal.
No, this is what happens when a bunch of angry kids can't properly look at a situation.
There is 1 bad thing about this year's WCS. That's that GSL receives less Premier Division money than they used to. On the contrary, the Contender Division is getting more money than Code A used to. Not by a whole lot, but it will be helping an additional 16 players make some money.
One thing to consider when looking at GSL; how it is now, how it was before, and compared to other eSports: this is a reasonable business model to help promote eSports as a profession. Before, players would make a lot of money that they didn't need to be making in order to make a stable living. Now they'll be making an amount that is definitely still good enough for them to be making a stable living. Please take note. A player doesn't need $40,000 for winning one single tournament. That's enough money to last a year, and those players don't need to pay for any living expenses or travel expenses anyways. That's just spending money for their pockets. Now they are making $20,000. It's a good prize for a 1st place winner.
Another important note: Although 1st and 2nd place prize money dropped off (47k -> 20k | 19k -> 12k), prize money for 3rd-32nd place has increased 3rd/4th: 4.7k -> 7k ro8: 2.8k -> 3.5k ro16: 1.8k -> 2k ro32: 1.4k -> 1.5k
You may not think of it as a huge deal, but everything is working towards career building and financial stability, rather than a hugely skewed "get rich quick" tournament.
Also, Contender Division (Code A) now gets prize money for 1st - 64th instead of 1st - 48th. AND that prize pool is very much significantly larger than the Contender Division for NA/EU.
This is to allow MORE Koreans to participate in GSL and receive some sort of income, rather than once again skewing the prize pool. Also, the prize pool for Code A was not reduced at all, but instead expanded to give more money to more people, whilst keeping the top prize pools for the top players.
Everything is for career building. Please don't ignorantly rant about how bad the new system is when the system actually isn't bad at all. And then stop ranting about how terrible WCS NA is when it's actually pretty darn good.
On April 18 2013 04:52 Shinta) wrote: I don't understand why people are calling this so weak?... Almost all of these players are really strong... They aren't top GSL material for the most part, but the Koreans playing this aren't either....
We call it weak because blizzard's new WCS system is telling us that this tournament is on par with GSL code S, and none of these players would or could make this season's GSL code S.
This what happens when you try to put the regions on equal footing when the players within those regions are nowhere near equal.
No, this is what happens when a bunch of angry kids can't properly look at a situation.
There is 1 bad thing about this year's WCS. That's that GSL receives less Premier Division money than they used to. On the contrary, the Contender Division is getting more money than Code A used to. Not by a whole lot, but it will be helping an additional 16 players make some money.
One thing to consider when looking at GSL; how it is now, how it was before, and compared to other eSports: this is a reasonable business model to help promote eSports as a profession. Before, players would make a lot of money that they didn't need to be making in order to make a stable living. Now they'll be making an amount that is definitely still good enough for them to be making a stable living. Please take note. A player doesn't need $40,000 for winning one single tournament. That's enough money to last a year, and those players don't need to pay for any living expenses or travel expenses anyways. That's just spending money for their pockets. Now they are making $20,000. It's a good prize for a 1st place winner.
Another important note: Although 1st and 2nd place prize money dropped off (47k -> 20k | 19k -> 12k), prize money for 3rd-32nd place has increased 3rd/4th: 4.7k -> 7k ro8: 2.8k -> 3.5k ro16: 1.8k -> 2k ro32: 1.4k -> 1.5k
You may not think of it as a huge deal, but everything is working towards career building and financial stability, rather than a hugely skewed "get rich quick" tournament.
Also, Contender Division (Code A) now gets prize money for 1st - 64th instead of 1st - 48th. AND that prize pool is very much significantly larger than the Contender Division for NA/EU.
This is to allow MORE Koreans to participate in GSL and receive some sort of income, rather than once again skewing the prize pool. Also, the prize pool for Code A was not reduced at all, but instead expanded to give more money to more people, whilst keeping the top prize pools for the top players.
Everything is for career building. Please don't ignorantly rant about how bad the new system is when the system actually isn't bad at all. And then stop ranting about how terrible WCS NA is when it's actually pretty darn good.
Not to mention sponsor money and team money. I like the new prize pool as well, and organizing SC2 in this manner really helps streamline fans to the best tourneys.
On April 18 2013 04:52 Shinta) wrote: I don't understand why people are calling this so weak?... Almost all of these players are really strong... They aren't top GSL material for the most part, but the Koreans playing this aren't either....
We call it weak because blizzard's new WCS system is telling us that this tournament is on par with GSL code S, and none of these players would or could make this season's GSL code S.
This what happens when you try to put the regions on equal footing when the players within those regions are nowhere near equal.
No, this is what happens when a bunch of angry kids can't properly look at a situation.
There is 1 bad thing about this year's WCS. That's that GSL receives less Premier Division money than they used to. On the contrary, the Contender Division is getting more money than Code A used to. Not by a whole lot, but it will be helping an additional 16 players make some money.
One thing to consider when looking at GSL; how it is now, how it was before, and compared to other eSports: this is a reasonable business model to help promote eSports as a profession. Before, players would make a lot of money that they didn't need to be making in order to make a stable living. Now they'll be making an amount that is definitely still good enough for them to be making a stable living. Please take note. A player doesn't need $40,000 for winning one single tournament. That's enough money to last a year, and those players don't need to pay for any living expenses or travel expenses anyways. That's just spending money for their pockets. Now they are making $20,000. It's a good prize for a 1st place winner.
Another important note: Although 1st and 2nd place prize money dropped off (47k -> 20k | 19k -> 12k), prize money for 3rd-32nd place has increased 3rd/4th: 4.7k -> 7k ro8: 2.8k -> 3.5k ro16: 1.8k -> 2k ro32: 1.4k -> 1.5k
You may not think of it as a huge deal, but everything is working towards career building and financial stability, rather than a hugely skewed "get rich quick" tournament.
Also, Contender Division (Code A) now gets prize money for 1st - 64th instead of 1st - 48th. AND that prize pool is very much significantly larger than the Contender Division for NA/EU.
This is to allow MORE Koreans to participate in GSL and receive some sort of income, rather than once again skewing the prize pool. Also, the prize pool for Code A was not reduced at all, but instead expanded to give more money to more people, whilst keeping the top prize pools for the top players.
Everything is for career building. Please don't ignorantly rant about how bad the new system is when the system actually isn't bad at all. And then stop ranting about how terrible WCS NA is when it's actually pretty darn good.
Not to mention sponsor money and team money. I like the new prize pool as well, and organizing SC2 in this manner really helps streamline fans to the best tourneys.
not to mention less tournaments in Korea = less money in total in Korea
On April 19 2013 20:51 Vindicare605 wrote: None of these are groups of death.
Each has a player that's favored to win and a player favored to lose.
but with an extra player in each group it could turn out interesting with e.g. 3 decent players and a scrub or something
Fair enough.
But as they stand none are groups of death to me.
haha of course not considering how some GSL groups can get ;p
The most lopsided Code S group this season is more competitive than the most competitive group of the ones listed here.
That's how bad the disparity is. Group 3 is currently leading the vote count for Group of Death and it's laughable to me because Polt is such a heavy favorite to get out of there.
The only real question mark for Group 3 is who will win between Idra and Goswser
Group 1 looks the most difficult group followed by Group 2 .
Why people are voting Group 3 is beyond me, as Idra is no longer a force in SC2 anymore and when you look at HOTS Terrans got stronger, ZvZ is almost random and his PvZ is really bad still with mentel issues. Polt is 100% to destroy that group unless a another Korean ends up in it from the qualifier
On April 19 2013 20:51 Vindicare605 wrote: None of these are groups of death.
Each has a player that's favored to win and a player favored to lose.
I think you overestimate NesTea Polt and viOLet just because they are Korean. None of those players are top players in Korea right now, and can all be beaten just as easily as they can win (their group).
Also, Group 6 doesn't have a player that's favored to win and a player that's favored to lose. Group 8 doesn't have a player that's favored to win either, only one that's favored to lose.
Edit: Not to mention what opera said, these aren't even complete groups yet...
On April 19 2013 20:51 Vindicare605 wrote: None of these are groups of death.
Each has a player that's favored to win and a player favored to lose.
I think you overestimate NesTea Polt and viOLet just because they are Korean. None of those players are top players in Korea right now, and can all be beaten just as easily as they can win (their group).
Also, Group 6 doesn't have a player that's favored to win and a player that's favored to lose. Group 8 doesn't have a player that's favored to win either, only one that's favored to lose.
Edit: Not to mention what opera said, these aren't even complete groups yet...
Got to work with what you got...but imo group 1 is the most undecided for a clear winner or loser and none are slouches.
I will update these soon as we know, btw, and add a new poll.
On April 19 2013 20:51 Vindicare605 wrote: None of these are groups of death.
Each has a player that's favored to win and a player favored to lose.
I think you overestimate NesTea Polt and viOLet just because they are Korean. None of those players are top players in Korea right now, and can all be beaten just as easily as they can win (their group).
Also, Group 6 doesn't have a player that's favored to win and a player that's favored to lose. Group 8 doesn't have a player that's favored to win either, only one that's favored to lose.
Edit: Not to mention what opera said, these aren't even complete groups yet...
The only reason Polt isn't in the GSL right now is because he is studying in the US. That's his choice, were he actually competing in the GSL he'd be in Code S almost undoubtedly, so no I am not overestimating him, nor am I overestimating Violet.
Nestea is the only question mark in terms of whether or not he is still top Korean quality. Violet and Polt are way higher level than any of the foreigners seeded thus far.
I disagree, and that's without bias, since viOLet has been my favorite player since he was srs.viOLet.razer playing Orc in wc3, and Polt being the Terran I root for most.
I don't think Polt would be code S right now due to his current situation. viOLet might be, but he'd probably get knocked out in the ro32 or 16 tops. He's not in shape to beat the best.
On April 21 2013 09:16 StarStruck wrote: Why are they announcing semi groups when the qualifiers are still going on. WTH..
because each group is only going to have one player from the qualifiers.
Oh, I know that. This wreaks of posting more content. I would have wait like DH when the qualifiers were actually over and set in stone instead of adding to the pile of fluff. I mean you really want to talk about groups of death before you even see which players qualify in those positions? Give me a break.
EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/9/9a/2013WCSS1America.png)
ClarityKiLLeR
MajOr
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