On March 29 2013 11:21 halomac wrote: Hey ChanmanV,
it was a really good show. Would like to see more of your opinions though and more dialog between you guys. As much as i like Steven i don't think that weekly Destiny interview formula is the best.
Or maybe try to bring someone else on the show from outside of Steven circles to make it more like a discussion and not a mono destiny rant on different topics.
Steven has got a really strong personality and it takes another alpha to challenge him.
Best of luck in the future!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note on TL moderation: Incontrol post in this thread as in many cases was immature and i've seen many cases of warnings/bans for "lol" comment. Please be consistent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note to Geoff: You make it hard to love you
Ok I've got a problem with posts like these. TL is a private forum. They allow anyone to sign up for it, and try to be as PC as possible, but they have every right to be biased to specific users for whatever reason. If you do not like this don't use their forum.
That brings me to Steven talking about the streamer list. Is it biased? Yes, but they have never claimed to be otherwise.
On March 29 2013 02:23 Plansix wrote: Chan, I love your other shows and the stuff to put together, but I can’t support this one because of your co-host. Its not only him, but his fanbase have been a very toxic influence over the community and I think we have been better off without them. I wish you luck with your other shows and will continued to listen to those.
I have to echo this sentiment. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was Destiny's temper-tantrum on Inside the game. I can't take anything he says seriously because apparently if he encounters resistance he wants to take his ball and go home while calling the dissent names over his shoulder.
I'll avoid anything Destiny is attached to like the plague when possible.
As much as I like Inside the Game, the EG hosts/DJWheat were acting very childishly (on their own show) throughout their segment with Destiny in this episode (cue Incontrol's payrise) . You've cherry picked the moment Destiny acts immaturely and left out the host's behaviour.
Edit: Also, I don't know where you get the last part from except from the one ItG segment. If you've ever watched his streams/discussions with others, he's usually very good at making an argument and counter-arguments.
I've seen some of Destiny's discussions, and he's really not very good at making arguments or debating subjects. He's basically like anyone with a big personality and an opinion, meaning he's good at directing the conversation to points that are in his favour and sticking with those points. It's what more aggressive (as opposed to passive, not angry) personalities do when they're argumentative, they'll sidestep issues they can't counter with phrases like "That's not the point" or "Well, what about..."
The ItG episode basically just showed that absolutely none of those people are good at structured debate...DJWheat, InControl and Destiny are all just good at pushing their personal opinions, Idra at best can play devil's advocate with his quips, and Painuser is too passive and is too easily sidetracked away from the point.
Which is fine if you just want a talk-show format, but terrible if you want a constructive dialogue.
On March 29 2013 11:53 Epamynondas wrote: But he never said TL itself was bad? It's just the lack of options that is.
Your talking about my streaming list bit?
I won't guess as to Stevens opinion of TL as a whole, it doesn't matter to me.
His talk about TL's streaming list however I don't agree with. The options are being limited on purpose because TL does not support them. Another example of this is how only TL member LoL streams are displayed rather than all of them.
edit: I wanna make clear I agree with like 90% of what Steven said this show, I just don't agree about the stream list. I think his ideas are very well based in logic. I wish he could present them in a better fashion so that certain people won't immediately shut out anything he says with "well he's a racist bigot" or the usual.
I actually think his recent language is fine for the majority of the audience he wants. I just hope he watches how invested he becomes in some arguments because the tone of his voice and speech pattern get a sort of superiority air to them that I think he could easily avoid if he realized it was happening.
I was gonna make a post about how this show seems "pretty cool" after watching about half of it, but after watching the entire thing I'm REALLY pumped for the next episode! Good shit.
This show was good, destiny as a lightning rod has gained you all the exposure you needed as well. Genius.
I'm not sure where it will go from here, I have a hard time seeing where else you and destiny can go now that the interviewish content has been expended. Hopefully future guests will give the show a direction.
But I have faith; your shows are quality. And though you represent yourself as the sort of beta, polite, PC guy, you know full well what you've unleashed here and I hope you do well.
Destiny was so right about the majority of SC2 Korean streamers. It's too bad most people are limited in watching some of the BW afreeca streams, some of those guys get how to market themselves and provide an entertaining experience. I got a lot of respect for Dragon and Violet (those 2 off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others) for doing their best to reach out to the western audience.
On March 29 2013 10:36 Pufftrees wrote: Looks interesting will definitely watch. Destiny's SC2 is dead post would have been spot on if HOTS didn't deliver... so I don't hate on him there, he was speaking the truth at the time.
GL
Well I didn't buy HotS and don't know when I will, so to me HotS didn't deliver. And just by looking at polls on this forums many people chose to not buy HotS
On March 29 2013 09:42 Asday wrote: Holy shit you know what this thread just reminded me of?
So you all know how hard Destiny had to fight to get on the streamers list, etc., 'cause he wasn't part of the old boy's club, and how that relationship perpetuated and will continue for the forseeable future. I come into this thread and I see so many people blindly being against Destiny and everything Destiny, with absolutely no legitimate reason at all, because that's what they've been taught is normal. Not only that, but they refuse any logic proffered, because they're too emotionally invested, (see: SC2 dying, because it is).
It reminds me of racism. Blind hatred for no reason, perpetuated and handed down to the young.
It's despicable.
This community is an embarrassment.
this is incredibly stupid. destiny is a known and outspoken figure in the "community" as numerous people who love and hate him have stated in this thread. people have formed opinions based on his image, which i imagine almost everyone (hate or love) is familiar with at this point. saying people are "bliind" and have "no legitimate reason at all" to dislike him is stupid. just as you have a reason to like him, others may dislike him based on his personality, streaming behavior, views, opinions, etc.
also, comparing this to racism? seriously? i had to read that a number of times to really believe that you were dumb enough to say that.
hate him or love him, destiny is a known commodity.
you are an embarassment.
Forming an opinion based on someone's image and disliking them as a result of that is stupid. Disliking someone because of their personality/stuff they actually say, sure. But their IMAGE? That's just ridiculous.
If you will express extreme opinion then prepare to get extreme responses from a lot of people that think you are wrong. Destiny did it and he has to except all of it.
On March 29 2013 09:42 Asday wrote: Holy shit you know what this thread just reminded me of?
So you all know how hard Destiny had to fight to get on the streamers list, etc., 'cause he wasn't part of the old boy's club, and how that relationship perpetuated and will continue for the forseeable future. I come into this thread and I see so many people blindly being against Destiny and everything Destiny, with absolutely no legitimate reason at all, because that's what they've been taught is normal. Not only that, but they refuse any logic proffered, because they're too emotionally invested, (see: SC2 dying, because it is).
It reminds me of racism. Blind hatred for no reason, perpetuated and handed down to the young.
It's despicable.
This community is an embarrassment.
this is incredibly stupid. destiny is a known and outspoken figure in the "community" as numerous people who love and hate him have stated in this thread. people have formed opinions based on his image, which i imagine almost everyone (hate or love) is familiar with at this point. saying people are "bliind" and have "no legitimate reason at all" to dislike him is stupid. just as you have a reason to like him, others may dislike him based on his personality, streaming behavior, views, opinions, etc.
also, comparing this to racism? seriously? i had to read that a number of times to really believe that you were dumb enough to say that.
hate him or love him, destiny is a known commodity.
you are an embarassment.
Forming an opinion based on someone's image and disliking them as a result of that is stupid. Disliking someone because of their personality/stuff they actually say, sure. But their IMAGE? That's just ridiculous.
Problem is that noone/barely any who shits on Destiny does it because they actually think he is wrong. I haven't read a single post where someone step by step tried to argue why Destiny's theory consisted of logical fallcies. Instead, people just dislike the message and decides to shit on him.
You can just read this thread. Every time someone has shitted on Destiny I have politely asked them why they believed he was wrong. I have received 0 responses.
This is like if someone back in 2006 predicted the financial crisis. People wouldn't like his message (oh no my house will deteriate in value which is comparable to Oh no my favourite hobby will "die"), and they would choose to attack his personality rather than his actual arguments.
On March 29 2013 09:42 Asday wrote: Holy shit you know what this thread just reminded me of?
So you all know how hard Destiny had to fight to get on the streamers list, etc., 'cause he wasn't part of the old boy's club, and how that relationship perpetuated and will continue for the forseeable future. I come into this thread and I see so many people blindly being against Destiny and everything Destiny, with absolutely no legitimate reason at all, because that's what they've been taught is normal. Not only that, but they refuse any logic proffered, because they're too emotionally invested, (see: SC2 dying, because it is).
It reminds me of racism. Blind hatred for no reason, perpetuated and handed down to the young.
It's despicable.
This community is an embarrassment.
this is incredibly stupid. destiny is a known and outspoken figure in the "community" as numerous people who love and hate him have stated in this thread. people have formed opinions based on his image, which i imagine almost everyone (hate or love) is familiar with at this point. saying people are "bliind" and have "no legitimate reason at all" to dislike him is stupid. just as you have a reason to like him, others may dislike him based on his personality, streaming behavior, views, opinions, etc.
also, comparing this to racism? seriously? i had to read that a number of times to really believe that you were dumb enough to say that.
hate him or love him, destiny is a known commodity.
you are an embarassment.
Forming an opinion based on someone's image and disliking them as a result of that is stupid. Disliking someone because of their personality/stuff they actually say, sure. But their IMAGE? That's just ridiculous.
not really sure what you mean by image, but i was referring to the persona he displays in public.
On March 29 2013 11:53 Epamynondas wrote: But he never said TL itself was bad? It's just the lack of options that is.
His talk about TL's streaming list however I don't agree with. The options are being limited on purpose because TL does not support them. Another example of this is how only TL member LoL streams are displayed rather than all of them.
I don't think I see how this disagrees with what Destiny said. I'm pretty sure that the point is not that Team Liquid is wrong in not featuring people they don't like, but the fact that this website is basically the ONLY place for foreign starcraft fans to be on certainly hurts variety on the community.
I would say my track record of thinking before I speak or type things is better than most people. I am also not interested getting in a debate about the subject, just reminding folks some most negative and destructive things that to happened to this community were directly connected to you and your fan base. I have made my opinion known and can watch the show if they want.
So you basically want to throw hate, but refuse to discuss your points. Destructive to the community? How about the people like you who likely contact sponsors based on benign complaints and try to white-knight the community while destroying it in the process? Want to produce your own high quality content for the community? Go ahead. But keep your negativity to yourself. That is what is, in truth, killing e-sports.
So much good discussion, and so many facepalm-inducing comments. Funny, Destiny still hasn't outgrown his apples to oranges comparisons; MLG and IPL streaming 24/7 has absolutely nothing to do with over-saturation in terms of major weekend events running for weeks and months in a row. Those are so completely different, these nitpicky comments are just... I don't... how... Anyways, while Blizzard has hurt the tournament scene by not releasing LAN publicly, they're genuinely interested in helping out the scene as best as they can within their limits, which isn't at all unreasonable for a major business to do. We all hate DRM, but really, we're at the point where you need some serious comprehension help if you don't get why Blizzard felt it was in their best interest to do it like this. And sure, Incontrol would get a lot less shit by not "marketing" himself as a pro player but what the fuck dude, who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't do? He's stated that so much of his passion for the game comes from playing it, and while it might be the biggest waste of time in his life, if he genuinely enjoys wtf he's doing and kicks some ass before he hangs up the mouse, why the fuck not? Why the fuck not. It's a bit sad that personal tensions are still generating comments like that.
On March 30 2013 03:40 Areon wrote: And sure, Incontrol would get a lot less shit by not "marketing" himself as a pro player but what the fuck dude, who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't do? He's stated that so much of his passion for the game comes from playing it, and while it might be the biggest waste of time in his life, if he genuinely enjoys wtf he's doing and kicks some ass before he hangs up the mouse, why the fuck not? Why the fuck not. It's a bit sad that personal tensions are still generating comments like that.
I don't think he was telling people what they can and can't do. He was giving his opinions on what makes a streamer successful and he was just saying that creating expectations that aren't met tends to lead to generating haters. Also he has defended Incontrol against the haters on his stream and said that Incontrol is a funny and entertaining streamer, despite their history of heated disagreements.
EPT
