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IEM 7 World Championship Map Pool - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
February 25 2013 02:44 GMT
#41
This is a huge missed opportunity to use a new game to bring some revolution. Can't say I'm surprised. =\
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
February 25 2013 02:47 GMT
#42
i'm ok with using old maps since the metagame should be different anyway, so it won't be so stale to see them hopefully
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
RParks42
Profile Joined December 2012
United States77 Posts
February 25 2013 02:50 GMT
#43
On February 25 2013 11:39 Terranlover wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 25 2013 11:32 RParks42 wrote:
Wasn't this the tournament that people thought was going to be Wings instead of Swarm? If that's the case then of course they used a map pool like this, you can't expect players who not only haven't played as much HotS, but actively practiced as if it were a Wings tournament to now use maps they have zero idea how to play

because new new maps are something totally alien or what?

i dont get it, every map plays the same, you build bases and build an armee, only small details change, there is nothing BIG to learn

This would be true if it was an amateur tournament, but seeing as how these are professionals, they need to be able to practice the subtleties of each map. Yes, you just "build bases and build an armee", but when, how economically greedy, and where you plan on attacking are major factors into each map. Saying every map plays the same is just ignorant and shows a lack of understanding on your part
I enjoy some good dome occasionally
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-25 02:57:23
February 25 2013 02:56 GMT
#44
What I don't get, to be blunt, is why some major tournaments don't just say "fuck it" and use a ton of new maps. Is it even risky at all, like some people seem to think?

You'll get at least the same # of viewers, probably a bit of an increase due to the intrigue of new maps, and if it's a big tourney doing it then the pros will be forced to learn the new maps if they want $$ winnings and fame

Even if a few of the maps end up being imbalanced in some matchups.. the positive press you'll get from the community for using new maps will far outweigh the negative publicity for any imbalanced games.. which should be pretty nonexistant since the current and older map pools already have/had maps which are imbalanced in some matchups, and it doesn't seem to hurt viewer #s at all.

@ whoever said there aren't any good HOTS maps yet, that couldn't be farther from the truth. Do some looking at the various map forums/sites, there are plenty of good ones.

@ the "but pros don't have time to learn new maps!" argument.. it's about the viewers, not the pros, as someone already said. Not to mention, you can learn most of what there is to know about a new map in ~10 practice games.. it's not even asking that much to learn some new maps.

Just think if you are the director of one of the big tournaments, wouldn't it be nice to be the one all the fans prefer because you use new, exciting maps instead of stale ones? And then if other tournaments follow your lead, you'll be a trendsetting tournament. Sounds like a nice situation to me.
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-25 03:06:16
February 25 2013 03:01 GMT
#45
Antiga/Daybreak/Ohana can go IMO.

Edit: At least with Ohana we can see whether the soul train still works in HotS.
mRpolite
Profile Joined March 2012
189 Posts
February 25 2013 03:05 GMT
#46
On February 25 2013 01:41 Noocta wrote:
I swear Antiga will still be here when LotV come out.

this
RParks42
Profile Joined December 2012
United States77 Posts
February 25 2013 03:09 GMT
#47
On February 25 2013 11:56 Fatam wrote:
@ the "but pros don't have time to learn new maps!" argument.. it's about the viewers, not the pros, as someone already said. Not to mention, you can learn most of what there is to know about a new map in ~10 practice games.. it's not even asking that much to learn some new maps.

While I agree that it is about the viewers, tournaments don't get viewers through the map pool, they get viewers by getting top level players. How do you get top level players? You get a good prize pool and cater to the players. And by giving a familiar map pool for the players, IEM is catering to these players. How many of you actually remember a tournament because they had a good map pool? Early HotS tournaments don't care about so-called "negative publicity for any imbalanced games" either, because the game is so new that it's almost guaranteed to be imbalanced. And yes, most players could get a feel for the new maps in a couple of games, but it takes hundreds, even thousands of games, to fully "get" a map at a pro level.
I enjoy some good dome occasionally
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-25 03:12:18
February 25 2013 03:11 GMT
#48
On February 25 2013 11:32 RParks42 wrote:
Wasn't this the tournament that people thought was going to be Wings instead of Swarm? If that's the case then of course they used a map pool like this, you can't expect players who not only haven't played as much HotS, but actively practiced as if it were a Wings tournament to now use maps they have zero idea how to play

If the goal of this terrible map pool was to not screw over players who mostly only practiced WoL, this was a terrible way to go about it. Frankly, the pool looks far more like a case of utter laziness from IEM, and greatly favours the HotS ladder heroes, since this is basically just the HotS ladder pool + Metropolis. You really want to help the players out? Reduce the ridiculous map pool size and actually spend time curating it to have good maps, instead of just a few good ones + a lot of outdated and/or garbage filler.
Twitter: @iamcaustic
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
February 25 2013 03:14 GMT
#49
On February 25 2013 11:47 opterown wrote:
i'm ok with using old maps since the metagame should be different anyway, so it won't be so stale to see them hopefully

This is kind of the way I think about it, but at the same time I'm a little dissapointed that IEM didn't even use the good HotS maps. Then again, it's kind of a small qualm since none of us know how this will pan out with the new meta.
User was warned for too many mimes.
achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-25 03:19:30
February 25 2013 03:17 GMT
#50
On February 25 2013 12:09 RParks42 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 25 2013 11:56 Fatam wrote:
@ the "but pros don't have time to learn new maps!" argument.. it's about the viewers, not the pros, as someone already said. Not to mention, you can learn most of what there is to know about a new map in ~10 practice games.. it's not even asking that much to learn some new maps.

While I agree that it is about the viewers, tournaments don't get viewers through the map pool, they get viewers by getting top level players. How do you get top level players? You get a good prize pool and cater to the players. And by giving a familiar map pool for the players, IEM is catering to these players. How many of you actually remember a tournament because they had a good map pool? Early HotS tournaments don't care about so-called "negative publicity for any imbalanced games" either, because the game is so new that it's almost guaranteed to be imbalanced. And yes, most players could get a feel for the new maps in a couple of games, but it takes hundreds, even thousands of games, to fully "get" a map at a pro level.

The truth is, most of us don't have time to watch all the premier tournaments out there, and when MLG/GSL/Proleague/IPL uses a fresher map pool than IEM, and have just as good if not better pros, guess which one I skip watching. (Of course, MLG only changed the maps recently for the sake of KeSPA players.)
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
February 25 2013 03:36 GMT
#51
I buy subscriptions entirely based on the map pool now. I bought a proleague sub because of the new maps, even though the maps suck, their different. I wasn't going to buy a GSL ticket until I saw Icarus and that they were using TPW Silver Sands (and DF Atlas, which may have some issues).

The first tournament with any amount of big name players and a 5 map pool of all new maps will earn a subscription from me without a minute's hesitation.
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-25 03:43:15
February 25 2013 03:38 GMT
#52
While I agree that it is about the viewers, tournaments don't get viewers through the map pool, they get viewers by getting top level players. How do you get top level players? You get a good prize pool and cater to the players.


If you're a large tournament all you have to do is have a big prize pool and you will get good players. Whether or not you get big name players has very, very little to do with the map pool. If you have the money, they will come. (as is the case with literally anything in this world)

And proleague would like a word with you. Do you really think proleague would have the same viewer counts if they just used ladder maps? It wouldn't even be close.
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
Warpish
Profile Joined June 2011
834 Posts
February 25 2013 03:47 GMT
#53
Antiga and Entombed are still the best maps that Blizzard made therefore I rather see them used in a tournament again than newer but worst maps.
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
February 25 2013 03:48 GMT
#54
Why not just avoid Blizzard maps then? If Antiga and Entombed are the best that they have to offer...
RParks42
Profile Joined December 2012
United States77 Posts
February 25 2013 03:54 GMT
#55
On February 25 2013 12:38 Fatam wrote:
Show nested quote +
While I agree that it is about the viewers, tournaments don't get viewers through the map pool, they get viewers by getting top level players. How do you get top level players? You get a good prize pool and cater to the players.


If you're a large tournament all you have to do is have a big prize pool and you will get good players. Whether or not you get big name players has very, very little to do with the map pool. If you have the money, they will come.

And proleague would like a word with you. Do you really think proleague would have the same viewer counts if they just used ladder maps? It wouldn't even be close.

I agree with the first point, that almost always just having a large prize pool is enough to lure top level players. As to the second part, I agree for the most part, but disagree with a little of it. I think the maps generated an increasing level of buzz for the SPL, and that announcing such changes showed that they were still willing to evolve and fix things if they didn't feel they were right. This increased the confidence in the SPL that the fans had, allowing the people who were still undecided to have one more reason why they should buy the season ticket, and changing the minds of some who didn't think the SPL would be as fun to watch with the full switch to SC2. They would have had the same viewership (not identical but close) regardless, simply because it's the Proleague in my opinion. The maps do help a hell of a lot, but to me that's because they are designed differently and play differently, not just because they are different.
I enjoy some good dome occasionally
netherDrake
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Singapore1831 Posts
February 25 2013 04:00 GMT
#56
Interesting, I'd like them to remove Ohana/Entombed though, that'll make it less awkward for the players.

Excited to see the two new hots maps and metropolis (in hots) for the first time in a major tourney.
SC2 player for Flash eSports. twitch.tv/nether_drake, https://twitter.com/bryan_sum, http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bryan-Drake-Sum/468389706519567
tuestresfat
Profile Joined December 2010
2555 Posts
February 25 2013 04:14 GMT
#57
at least newkirk and star station look cool o.o
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
February 25 2013 05:07 GMT
#58
Yawn. Waste of a map pool.
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
February 25 2013 05:13 GMT
#59
the maps are really boring
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
mrRoflpwn
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2618 Posts
February 25 2013 05:44 GMT
#60
You guys really should not be surprised. They announced the map pool 20 minutes after Vortix asked them on twitter for a map pool. They just picked the ladder maps without any research or asking pros. Foreign tournaments always have shitty map pools and it makes me only want to start watching from the RO8. Long live GSL!!!!
Long live the Boss Toss!
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