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On January 15 2013 13:50 dsjoerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 13:42 ChriseC wrote:
the systems tries to keep you to have ~50% winrate
i dont see how these stats are helping by any means That's an interesting point. Let's say, for sake of argument, that my race Protoss really is totally EZEZEZ. Since the system tries to keep me at a 50% winrate, but my race is totally OP, so then Protoss like me would be promoted into higher leagues. We'd see more Protoss in the higher leagues, and the other races more in the lower leagues. Just eyeballing the stats, there seems to be somewhat fewer Terran cross-race matches played in Masters/Diamond than the other races. Does that mean Terran is the hardest race and there are fewer of them in the top leagues?
Yeah, I think the most interesting thing about this is the discrepancy in sample size for each match up by league. Damn few Terrans higher up.
tvx winrates are almost entirely within a good balance ratio, but there are nearly 4x as many zvp's as there are tvp's recorded in gm (by this program, so I guess it could be coincidence). Whatever it means, if it even means anything, that's pretty sad 
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On January 15 2013 14:55 TimKim0713 wrote:
Toss imba. Evrysingle tournament theres at least one toss in top 3
Yes, if only.
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tvx winrates are almost entirely within a good balance ratio, but there are nearly 4x as many zvp's as there are tvp's recorded in gm (by this program, so I guess it could be coincidence). Whatever it means, if it even means anything, that's pretty sad
My stats on GM are not very complete, I need to do some more work to be able to comprehensively retrieve GM matches.
Someone who reviewed these stats suggested focusing on the stats of Random players. What do y'all think? Would those be more indicative of balance?
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On January 16 2013 01:11 dsjoerg wrote:Show nested quote +tvx winrates are almost entirely within a good balance ratio, but there are nearly 4x as many zvp's as there are tvp's recorded in gm (by this program, so I guess it could be coincidence). Whatever it means, if it even means anything, that's pretty sad My stats on GM are not very complete, I need to do some more work to be able to comprehensively retrieve GM matches. Someone who reviewed these stats suggested focusing on the stats of Random players. What do y'all think? Would those be more indicative of balance?
Im curious who suggested it, lol. If you mean the balance between the three races, it wouldn't indicate anything. It'd be interesting to see, though.
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On January 16 2013 01:15 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:11 dsjoerg wrote:tvx winrates are almost entirely within a good balance ratio, but there are nearly 4x as many zvp's as there are tvp's recorded in gm (by this program, so I guess it could be coincidence). Whatever it means, if it even means anything, that's pretty sad My stats on GM are not very complete, I need to do some more work to be able to comprehensively retrieve GM matches. Someone who reviewed these stats suggested focusing on the stats of Random players. What do y'all think? Would those be more indicative of balance? Im curious who suggested it, lol. If you mean the balance between the three races, it wouldn't indicate anything. It'd be interesting to see, though.
Focusing on Randoms stats was suggested here and here.
I agree that Random stats are hard to interpret because the player is at a "training handicap" to their non-Random opponent. But the comparison of RTvP to RPvT seems pretty clean. Unless you believe that Random players are more practiced in one race than another?
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lol, and so across the board except in masters, terran loses to the other races more often than they win. good to know =P
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On January 15 2013 14:50 Qwyn wrote:
I would think that this would not mean too much, as you are supposed to have a 50% win/loss ratio on ladder
If TvP is flawed at your level, you could get let's say a 60% win ratio as Terran against players "your level" on that matchup. Since you have an overall winrate at 50%, your winrates will probably be something like 55/50/45 with 45% on your TvZ even though matchup is correct.
What is truly difficult is that a flawed ZvT with 60% winrate Z will end up with exactly the same result overall.
If T is favored agains both Z and P, you end up with a 50/50/50, with a population shift in MMR that could potentially be noticed (see http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351786).
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On January 16 2013 01:33 dsjoerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:15 rd wrote:On January 16 2013 01:11 dsjoerg wrote:tvx winrates are almost entirely within a good balance ratio, but there are nearly 4x as many zvp's as there are tvp's recorded in gm (by this program, so I guess it could be coincidence). Whatever it means, if it even means anything, that's pretty sad My stats on GM are not very complete, I need to do some more work to be able to comprehensively retrieve GM matches. Someone who reviewed these stats suggested focusing on the stats of Random players. What do y'all think? Would those be more indicative of balance? Im curious who suggested it, lol. If you mean the balance between the three races, it wouldn't indicate anything. It'd be interesting to see, though. Focusing on Randoms stats was suggested here and here. I agree that Random stats are hard to interpret because the player is at a "training handicap" to their non-Random opponent. But the comparison of RTvP to RPvT seems pretty clean. Unless you believe that Random players are more practiced in one race than another?
There is an inherent disconnect between a random player's subjective skill and his rating when he can potentially be thrown against statistically superior opponents riding on the advantage of playing random in lower leagues. It would be clean as RTvP and RPvT but it wouldn't really be indicative of TvP/PvT etc.
edit: It's just as possible for a random player to be better in a match-up than a normal Terran be better than a normal Protoss in TvP/PvT -- but that wasn't the point.
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EPT
