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Regarding the Defwin against stephano at HSC VI - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Gimmeurladderpoints
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany372 Posts
December 21 2012 22:54 GMT
#121
It's not about wheter you had the game won or not. (Altough i personally do not feel like it was a freewin, however you played great and had a big lead) The drama is about the way you bitched and complained on stream, while others, snute comes to mind, were trying to find a reasonable solution for this messed up situation. Even IF the game was 100% over, why did you have to force yourself on the discussion. I know it's a serious tournament and you want to win the group. But still beeing 2-0 up in a Bo5 is pretty darn good.

When you look at Parting/MKP or MKP/Violet, those games were even more over imo, and both times they did a regame, which is imo the fairest solution. But a 2-0 lead in a bo5 would have been good as well.
~Ryung~Genius~Bomber~Nestea~Liquid_Jinro~Sage~San~jjakji~Boxer~Fantasy~Polt~
AngryMag
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1040 Posts
December 21 2012 22:54 GMT
#122
On December 22 2012 07:47 HTOMario wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2012 07:43 AngryMag wrote:
On December 22 2012 07:39 MarkCJ wrote:
reddit doesn't seem too happy LOL


No offence to reddit users, but when was reddit ever happy? They bitch, whine and moan at every little opportunity, be it emailing sponsors for minor stuff, witchhunting players who said something stupid or denouncing the work others put up for the community.. TBH I do not think that decision makers around the esports scene should care about reddit even one bit, they will whine regardless...


I'm sorry but I have no idea how to navigate reddit, where are you seeing this? When I type in starcraft or starcraft 2 in the search the posts are months old.


Here a little explanation link on how to navigate reddit:

http://howtoreddit.wordpress.com/subreddits/navigating/

For some instances of the witchhunting/pitchforking players you could search for Destiny or Stephano related stuff. All minor issues which get completely blown out of proportion with emailing sponsors and shit..
gosublade
Profile Joined May 2011
632 Posts
December 21 2012 22:55 GMT
#123
opponents is in your face 0v8 infs, 3v4 base. Lord going to the judges at the end was bad but I think decision wise it would have ended up the same.
Not even death can save you from me.
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
December 21 2012 22:55 GMT
#124
industry standard is re-game, demanding anything else makes you scum
christophequirion
Profile Joined October 2009
France82 Posts
December 21 2012 22:57 GMT
#125
unfortunate event,
I guess the regame was the least worst decision,
and i feel you let no choice to the admins, and to stephano,

but it was the organisator/admins mistake to be too open to public discussion,
and to be unclear on what should be a regame and what should not,
(yes, ungrateful job and tough call, especially late, after some beers, among friends, out of the blue...)
Lesson at least partially learn I'm sure !!
amitbl
Profile Joined December 2012
Israel1 Post
Last Edited: 2012-12-21 23:19:21
December 21 2012 23:02 GMT
#126
I have just registered a user in TL just to reply to this (been a silent observer for a LONG time).

Xlord, while I also believe you deserved the win, and must admit you played in a very solid, impressive fashion, I have a problem with your behavior in this fiasco.

Obviously the blame should fall mostly on HSC for letting this get out of hand. They should NOT have put this "debate" on air. They should NOT have applied pressure to make a decision in a hurry. They should NOT have picked refs arbitrarily - some of whom did not even want to partake in this (Dima for example).
They definitely SHOULD have had clear air tight rules for such an event, and should have followed those to the letter.

With all that said, and all the blame put in the proper place, I still think you acted appallingly and childishly. You were selfish and inconsiderate of your fans/viewers and in complete disregard of your very well mannered and extremely skillful opponent - who btw was in the exact same nerve wrecking position you were in.
While this whole thing was handled badly by HSC admins, you had no right to give your opinion on possible solutions not to even mention the right to "agree" or "disagree" to those. you didn't even have a right to come forward and explain your position/opinion. You tried to influence the decision making process (as flawed as it was in the first place) with your own personal agenda, while your opponent stood in the back and awaited patiently for the decision to be made knowing very well he should have no say in the matter. your behavior was unsportsmanlike, and downright rude. And to top it all off, you called Stephano BM for getting frustrated at your rude behavior and ending the whole fiasco by just giving you the win?

So to sum up my opinion on things:
1. you deserved the win.
2. HSC fucked up. REALLY fucked up.
3. you acted like a dick. no offence.
Ydriel
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Italy516 Posts
December 21 2012 23:02 GMT
#127
I'm pretty sure we can all agree by now that it was the admins' fault for not enforcing the rules in the first place. Going to the casters (who are players who are still in the tournament, I might say) to ask them to decide is....not a good idea at all.

That said, I'm sure XlorD could have handled that way better, there are ways and ways to argue and that was not a good one.

He's been playing pretty well, so it's a shame he got all that crap thrown at him, but he should take this as an experience and learn to manner up, or he might lose fans pretty fast.
<3 SC2 <3<3 Dota 2. Steam ID: HellS
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
December 21 2012 23:03 GMT
#128
Tournaments should have a rule set and admins to enforce it, the only time a player should get involved is when they want to give a win to there opponent for being so far ahead imo.
Cokefreak
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland8096 Posts
December 21 2012 23:07 GMT
#129
On December 22 2012 08:02 Ydriel wrote:
I'm pretty sure we can all agree by now that it was the admins' fault for not enforcing the rules in the first place. Going to the casters (who are players who are still in the tournament, I might say) to ask them to decide is....not a good idea at all.

That said, I'm sure XlorD could have handled that way better, there are ways and ways to argue and that was not a good one.

He's been playing pretty well, so it's a shame he got all that crap thrown at him, but he should take this as an experience and learn to manner up, or he might lose fans pretty fast.

I still think it was a good idea to ask 3 pro players about their decision on the game as they obviously understand it much better, however it should have all happened off stream and so that nobody else besides the admins could hear it because obviously the players felt pressured by the situation and did not want to actually say their opinion.
christophequirion
Profile Joined October 2009
France82 Posts
December 21 2012 23:07 GMT
#130
On December 22 2012 07:23 TaKeSeN wrote:

Sorry to all of you if this somehow fucked you up. I will not let this happen again.

Thanks for your time and i hope you can somehow understand my situation.

//Dennis

It was not perfect and i can understand that some people are angry and upset. This won t happen again.



thanks for you very good job !! Shit happens, but day 4 or HSC7 will be better thanks to this.
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
December 21 2012 23:09 GMT
#131
Wait, is this another case of "player(s) deciding out decision/decide on their own?"
If so, can we please have admins that take control, it's their job when the tournament is going and not the players...
FaRess
Profile Joined September 2010
Tunisia937 Posts
December 21 2012 23:13 GMT
#132
On December 22 2012 08:02 amitbl wrote:
I have just registered a user in TL just to reply to this (been a silent observer for a LONG time).

Xlord, while I also believe you deserved the win, and must admit you played in a very solid, impressive fashion, I have a problem with your behavior in this fiasco.

Obviously the blame should fall mostly on HSC for letting this get out of hand. They should NOT have put this "debate" on air. They should NOT have applied pressure to make a decision in a hurry. They should NOT have picked refs arbitrarily - some of whom did not even want to partake in this (Dima for example).
They definitely SHOULD have had clear air tight rules for such an event, and should have followed those to the letter.

With all that said, and all the blame put in the proper place, I still think you acted appallingly and childishly. You were selfish and inconsiderate of your fans/viewers and in complete disregard of your very well mannered and extremely skillful opponent - who btw was in the exact same nerve wrecking position you were in.
While this whole thing was handled badly by HSC admins, you had no right to give your opinion on possible solutions not to even mention the right to "agree" or "disagree" to those. you didn't even have a right to come forward and explain your position/opinion. You tried to influence the decision making process (as flawed as it was in the first place) with your own personal agenda, while your opponent stood in the back and awaited patiently for the decision to be made knowing very well he should have no say in the matter. your behavior was unsportsmanlike, and downright rude. And to top it all off, you called Stephano BM for getting frustrated at your rude behavior and ending the whole fiasco by just giving you the win?

So to sum up my opinion on things:
1. you deserved the win.
2. HSC fucked up. REALLY fucked up.
3. you acted like a dick. no offence.


Couldn't have said it better, people don't think your BM because you received the win, it's because the way you acted was outright disgusting, your opponent didn't say anything, while you were throwing words like "free win" to the poor players that had been put in that position.
YoloStar <3
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
December 21 2012 23:17 GMT
#133
He made his TL account almost 2 years ago and this is his only post :O
Refer to my post.
Bocian
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland259 Posts
December 21 2012 23:21 GMT
#134
On December 22 2012 08:02 amitbl wrote:
I have just registered a user in TL just to reply to this (been a silent observer for a LONG time).

Xlord, while I also believe you deserved the win, and must admit you played in a very solid, impressive fashion, I have a problem with your behavior in this fiasco.

Obviously the blame should fall mostly on HSC for letting this get out of hand. They should NOT have put this "debate" on air. They should NOT have applied pressure to make a decision in a hurry. They should NOT have picked refs arbitrarily - some of whom did not even want to partake in this (Dima for example).
They definitely SHOULD have had clear air tight rules for such an event, and should have followed those to the letter.

With all that said, and all the blame put in the proper place, I still think you acted appallingly and childishly. You were selfish and inconsiderate of your fans/viewers and in complete disregard of your very well mannered and extremely skillful opponent - who btw was in the exact same nerve wrecking position you were in.
While this whole thing was handled badly by HSC admins, you had no right to give your opinion on possible solutions not to even mention the right to "agree" or "disagree" to those. you didn't even have a right to come forward and explain your position/opinion. You tried to influence the decision making process (as flawed as it was in the first place) with your own personal agenda, while your opponent stood in the back and awaited patiently for the decision to be made knowing very well he should have no say in the matter. your behavior was unsportsmanlike, and downright rude. And to top it all off, you called Stephano BM for getting frustrated at your rude behavior and ending the whole fiasco by just giving you the win?

So to sum up my opinion on things:
1. you deserved the win.
2. HSC fucked up. REALLY fucked up.
3. you acted like a dick. no offence.


Couldn't put it in better words. Btw there is a really good response from Take - and I'm sure this kind of situation won't happen again.
Hiea
Profile Joined March 2012
Denmark1538 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-21 23:26:43
December 21 2012 23:25 GMT
#135
On December 22 2012 08:17 Zenbrez wrote:
He made his TL account almost 2 years ago and this is his only post :O

Tells us how invested he is in this matter!

But honestly I don't think you can argue the game shouldn't have been regamed, because especially on metropolis, if Stephano holds the next attack, gets infestors and camps, he can get to 5 bases and then anything can happen, it has happened soooo many times in the past where the game drags out and it ends up even.

The most extreme example I can think of recently was DRG vs RorO in GSL Code A in season 4.

RorO got behind in each game massively in bases, supply and tech, except upgrades he was ahead.

He played well, dragging the game out and just kept picking better fights and ended up winning both games, game 1 he wasn't as far behind, there was also a basetrade which just had everything mixed up, second game DRG was on 3 bases with muta going into infestors, RorO had 2 bases and infestors, massively behind in supply, still won in a 30 minute game.

You ask DRG if the disconnect happened when DRG was at the peak of his lead if he think he would lose? He would say no way, he was ahead in every way except upgrades, but he lost in the end.

It's an awful situation but the best thing is to regame, and if the "winning" player argues against it then yeah.. nobody will like him.

Another time was IPL5 Scarlett vs DRG (one of the matches) Scarlett got behind and just made better decisions later in the game (was also on metropolis) and won.

The last time this happened in HSC was MKP vs viOLet where MKP had an even bigger lead than XlorD had, but MKP just decided to call a regame after that, everyone loved MKP for that and started spamming MannerKingPrime, MKP won the regame.
Reaps
Profile Joined June 2012
United Kingdom1280 Posts
December 21 2012 23:26 GMT
#136
On December 22 2012 08:21 Bocian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2012 08:02 amitbl wrote:
I have just registered a user in TL just to reply to this (been a silent observer for a LONG time).

Xlord, while I also believe you deserved the win, and must admit you played in a very solid, impressive fashion, I have a problem with your behavior in this fiasco.

Obviously the blame should fall mostly on HSC for letting this get out of hand. They should NOT have put this "debate" on air. They should NOT have applied pressure to make a decision in a hurry. They should NOT have picked refs arbitrarily - some of whom did not even want to partake in this (Dima for example).
They definitely SHOULD have had clear air tight rules for such an event, and should have followed those to the letter.

With all that said, and all the blame put in the proper place, I still think you acted appallingly and childishly. You were selfish and inconsiderate of your fans/viewers and in complete disregard of your very well mannered and extremely skillful opponent - who btw was in the exact same nerve wrecking position you were in.
While this whole thing was handled badly by HSC admins, you had no right to give your opinion on possible solutions not to even mention the right to "agree" or "disagree" to those. you didn't even have a right to come forward and explain your position/opinion. You tried to influence the decision making process (as flawed as it was in the first place) with your own personal agenda, while your opponent stood in the back and awaited patiently for the decision to be made knowing very well he should have no say in the matter. your behavior was unsportsmanlike, and downright rude. And to top it all off, you called Stephano BM for getting frustrated at your rude behavior and ending the whole fiasco by just giving you the win?

So to sum up my opinion on things:
1. you deserved the win.
2. HSC fucked up. REALLY fucked up.
3. you acted like a dick. no offence.


Couldn't put it in better words. Btw there is a really good response from Take - and I'm sure this kind of situation won't happen again.


Where can i see the response from Take.
zefreak
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States2731 Posts
December 21 2012 23:27 GMT
#137
Xlord, people aren't denying you didn't have a lead. Most people just think you acted like a child and I agree. You won the match, yet Stephano comes out of it looking 100x better.
www.gosu-sc.com - Starcraft News, Strategy and Merchandise
r3fl3x
Profile Joined May 2011
Turkey6 Posts
December 21 2012 23:27 GMT
#138
Even if you had %99 win chance(which was not even close), calling a game of similar supplies a "freewin" was such a selfish move. You never know what could've happened and it could've went very well the opposite of your freewin plan. The reason you made this thread is because you know your fault and wanted to somewhat justify your nonsense. Stay away from that kind of deception cause it makes you look even worse. And before making statements like "bye bye stephano" consider to learn a thing or two from stephano about fairplay and manner.
odem
Profile Joined August 2011
143 Posts
December 21 2012 23:27 GMT
#139
lol @ I.. I.. I.. I.. I.. in the opening post

which only reason is to justify his anti-social actions..

still just seeing it from his own point of view and rejecting an objective standpoint that is kinda clear:
if there is any doubt --> rematch

such a unsympathetic person really.
IndyO
Profile Joined June 2012
392 Posts
December 21 2012 23:30 GMT
#140
On December 22 2012 06:35 Kenny_oro wrote:
You're not seen as bad mannered for playing a good game. The disconnect wasn't your fault.

But what's the pont of arguing with the casters which already were forced in the uncomfortable situation to make a decission.

You should've just leaned back to wait for the decission instead of arguing with TLO on stream like a madman.

If you're that confident in your skill - why not just take the 20 and extend it to the BO5?

Nobody argued about your lead in that game - But a lead doesn't mean freewin. You should know that.


Pretty much agree with this, arguing with those in a already awkward scenario helps no one, and if you were so sure you could win taking the win, making it 2-0 and a Bo5 is by far the most even choice. This type of scenarios do suck, so I feel it mostly about making the most even scenario possible.
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