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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On December 20 2012 02:05 Chylo wrote: Are people forgetting Jinro's Code S runs? Still the highest placing foreigner in Code S and as terran. That was before they nerfed every single terran opener. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
It's funny because there is some truth there which some people seem to be missing. Sure, the terran players might not be as fast as some of the other players but having that extra apm to do spreads instead of frigging clumping all the time due to the A.I. would certainly help ten fold for Terran players. If you aren't good at spreads chances are you're going to have a really hard time playing terran. In terms of movement around the map with frog hoping your tanks and managing your bio units let alone the clunkiness of mech. The options for crowd control are quite limited especially when you are coming onto creep. You really have to manage your units effectively and need to make sure your tanks are in proper position. If they aren't that's one dead army. I would love to see how Terrans fair if Blizzard were to change the stupid pathing. We've said it so many times. On December 20 2012 02:08 AnomalySC2 wrote: That was before they nerfed every single terran opener. Yup, back then Terran was the most rounded race with all sorts of viability and openings. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 20 2012 02:08 AnomalySC2 wrote: That was before they nerfed every single terran opener. Nah reaper bullshit was nerfed at that point  | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On December 20 2012 02:11 Assirra wrote: Nah reaper bullshit was nerfed at that point That's true, but we still had the bunker!!! And 11/11 :D But I think my point is, those types of openers were all nerfed and you can trace some of that back to Idra being so popular and spreading his negative opinions on early game aggression. Terran by FAR has suffered the most from having all the rushes nerfed. | ||
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pmp10
3318 Posts
This means that they cannot be balanced properly and will get either too strong or too weak at certain skill levels. It just so happens the race got balanced around the top level and so the lower and mid tier terran players get screwed compared to other races. Since you can't expect people to start playing the race at the top level terran will slowly diminish in number. Would be pros won't get the same results with terran that they could with protoss or zerg and so won't transition into playing full-time. | ||
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XiGua
Sweden3085 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:31 Flonomenalz wrote: Yeah, there aren't 10 Terrans in the next season of Code S or anything. As for foreign Terrans, Terran requires the most APM of the three races to play at the highest level. Foreign players usually don't have as much high APM. Well... There were only 1 Terran in Code S this season | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On December 20 2012 02:24 XiGua wrote: Well... There were only 1 Terran in Code S this season I also find it a bit strange how everyone keeps saying Terran requires more APM, which is something I link to macro and multitasking, but then it seems the general consensus is that Terran has much harder micro to contend with (splitting bio up). Micro is all mouse hand speed/accuracy, macro is mostly keyboard related. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On December 20 2012 03:29 AnomalySC2 wrote: I also find it a bit strange how everyone keeps saying Terran requires more APM, which is something I link to macro and multitasking, but then it seems the general consensus is that Terran has much harder micro to contend with (splitting bio up). Micro is all mouse hand speed/accuracy, macro is mostly keyboard related. I think zergs require a more 'sustained' APM in terms of injects, creep spread and army movement. However, during engagements, terrans require most 'burst' APM to micro. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
And not only Blizzard went into nerfing Terrans, but tournament maps as well. This map design now kinda became standard due to Protoss having a problem against Zerg on those anti Terran maps. Now here is the fun bit of it. Terran was actually designed pretty well, so they could play on open and on choke heavy maps. Making this whole anti Terran map movement pointless and just buffed the Bio part. Meanwhile TvT on the old maps lead to the Tank nerf, making them terrible against Toss. Now with the "everything has to be open" map Blue Flame Hellions became a problem in TvT resulting in another nerf to mech. The end result was that in TvT you could now use Marines and well no more Mech in other matchups (unless the Zerg doesn't upgrade air armor). The positional play was something that worked really well for Foreign Terrans, while this Bio and being everywhere was more the Korean Terran style. But tbh Foreigner Toss and Zerg were better at defending this Bio style. So yeah all those nerfs didn't really affected Korean Terrans that much, while it really hit Foreigners hard. | ||
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iDoMiNaTe2.0
288 Posts
On December 20 2012 02:12 AnomalySC2 wrote: That's true, but we still had the bunker!!! And 11/11 :D But I think my point is, those types of openers were all nerfed and you can trace some of that back to Idra being so popular and spreading his negative opinions on early game aggression. Terran by FAR has suffered the most from having all the rushes nerfed. Yeah, because 7 rax reaper bunker rush was so balanced oh no wait 2 depot wall off at ramps was really balanced as well and so was bbs | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
On December 20 2012 03:44 iDoMiNaTe2.0 wrote: Yeah, because 7 rax reaper bunker rush was so balanced oh no wait 2 depot wall off at ramps was really balanced as well and so was bbs Bunker depot still walls many ramps for the same cost. No neutral blockers on Blizz. maps, so it's still doable on ladder. Everyone knows reaper cheese was too strong back in 2010, but the nerfs rendered not only reapers, but pretty much everything early game impotent. As for foreign terrans, I'm sure their representation in the pro scene is about the same as their representation on the BNet ladder for their respective regions. Now is just not the best time for Terran. The metagame and map pool for WoL favours Zerg, atm. | ||
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Finnz
United Kingdom260 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:04 blade55555 wrote: Terran takes a lot of APM which a lot of foreigners don't have. That is kind of the reason korean terrans are so good is they have a lot of apm and thus can use terran in ways foreigners can't due to being to slow. This is not the reason at all. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
On December 20 2012 02:05 Chylo wrote: Are people forgetting Jinro's Code S runs? Still the highest placing foreigner in Code S and as terran. That was back when very few players could macro. All they did were all-in's and Bit-by-Bit, plus the maps were waaaaay smaller and impossible to get a 3rd base, hence Terrans had an extremely good time vs. Protoss and Zergs. Jinro was probably one of the few earliest macro Terran (i.e. "standard"), and back in an era dominated by rushes and cheeses, if you hold off your opponent's cheese/rush then you basically win (much like now). But now everybody and their mothers can macro so the "macro terran" is not as strong anymore (see Bomber). Now to succeed as a Terran you need to be incredibly smart (Mvp), incredibly fast (Taeja) and/or just plain incredible (Flash), along with flawless macro. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On December 20 2012 03:44 iDoMiNaTe2.0 wrote: Yeah, because 7 rax reaper bunker rush was so balanced oh no wait 2 depot wall off at ramps was really balanced as well and so was bbs It was only OP because Zergs were hatching first every single game. That was never intended (imo). That is also the reason virtually every other opener has been nerfed. I really don't think Blizzard wanted players fast expanding every single game. I think Idra and Artosis played a large role as to why this style spread like wildfire. You have Idra on CNN, winning tournaments, and constantly trash talking everyone else. Then you have Artosis, the most popular and charismatic caster in esports, constantly agreeing with Idra's passive macro views and hating on anything "cheesy" or aggressive. Just my opinion of course. Just to reiterate what this even has to do with the topic at hand. I feel that Terran in sc2 was always meant to open with some sort of aggressive opener, but all the constant nerfs done to this style (and the popular belief that you should play passively) has really killed the appeal of Terran. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
Thank you for your useful contribution. | ||
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herMan
Japan2053 Posts
On December 20 2012 04:00 ref4 wrote: That was back when very few players could macro. All they did were all-in's and Bit-by-Bit, plus the maps were waaaaay smaller and impossible to get a 3rd base, hence Terrans had an extremely good time vs. Protoss and Zergs. Jinro was probably one of the few earliest macro Terran (i.e. "standard"), and back in an era dominated by rushes and cheeses, if you hold off your opponent's cheese/rush then you basically win (much like now). But now everybody and their mothers can macro so the "macro terran" is not as strong anymore (see Bomber). Now to succeed as a Terran you need to be incredibly smart (Mvp), incredibly fast (Taeja) and/or just plain incredible (Flash), along with flawless macro. A bit fanboyish about Flash, don't you think? If he was "plain incredible" in this game sure he'd be at least the OSL champ right now... The difficulty in playing terran is that its units only work when one babysits them all the time. Without supervision they kinda suck. In the highest levels only complete control makes them get on equal footing with the other races' units. | ||
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soullogik
United States1171 Posts
they are 5x as good as the best zerg/protoss ofc foreign terrans can't do shit | ||
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Ettick
United States2434 Posts
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
I've mained zerg since BW but facts are facts and it is hilarious to see insecure z/p fanboys trying to come up with alternate reasons why foreign terrans have such a minimal presence compared to foreign zerg and toss. | ||
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