Exactly four months ago vVv Gaming began an amazing journey with the announcement of Aspire: the Starcraft 2 Learning Consortium. Not satisfied with the existing structure of the community, we decided to design a place where SC2 players of all skill levels could come together to learn and grow as a team. All we asked in return was passion for the game, the dedication to participate fully in all the practices and events, and participation in the community that made it possible. We felt that having the right people who would be active and engaged in the program was far more important than finding highly skilled players, and I attribute the successes we've had in Aspire to the great team we put together. Looking back on the past four months, we've seen how much our players have learned and developed, and decided it was time to share our successes with the community at large.
What success? Well, admittedly we haven't won any GSL tournaments or team leagues, but every single player in Aspire has improved in a significant way. vVv SonTran, who was our lowest ranking member when we started, was able to level himself up from Gold to Diamond League in a very short period of time. Several other members leveled themselves from Diamond to Master, and those who started out as Master players have been climbing the steep ladder higher into the ranks of elite players.
vVv SonTran celebrating after reaching Diamond League (starts at 1:15)
Improvement isn't just about climbing the ladder, though. In fact, a lot of the focus in Aspire is on scheduled team practices and practicing with teammates. One of our players, vVv PoSeR was having a hard time with scouting and map control in PvT. Another member, vVv TuFF helped him overcome this by dropping him over and over again until he learned to keep several units in the proper position to stop the drops. vVv Wakai was able to improve his multitasking when doing aggressive builds. During a recent practice, he was able to focus on executing hellion drop micro while not forgetting to continue macroing back home.
In addition to in-game skills, Aspire has even helped several players overcome psychological issues that had been holding them back. For example, vVv Fearful used to have ladder anxiety. After practicing with his Aspire teammates, he was able to improve and gain the confidence needed to ladder without worrying about the outcome of each match. Just recently he was promoted to Master League. vVv BabyToss, Team Captain of Aspire, was always shy around people, but being the leader of the Aspire team has forced her out of her shell and allowed her to grow more comfortable working with and relying on others.
Our Aspire players have also enjoyed some epic competitive moments. In one UR Team League match, vVv TuFF was able to come back from a 3-1 deficit and win the match for the Aspire team. "I came back and won 3 games. After the match I hopped back onto our mumble channel and the whole team congratulated me. It was very heartwarming and I will remember that for the rest of my life." vVv NazGuL remembers when he played against RockErLighT in a team league: "When I joined vVv, RockEr was someone I looked up to... when I played him I had trained with him a long time ago, so I used a four-gate build that used to work against him. It worked and I was able to stop the all kill. Afterward, everyone on mumble was cheering for me." (If you're curious about what happened next, KawaiiLighT was then able to defeat NazGul in the next game).
Aspire isn't all about serious competition and practice. We wanted to make sure the team would have chemistry with each other in order to foster the best cooperative environment. vVv BabyToss recalls when she was immortalized in team-lingo: "Well, when they said I have 'BabyToss moments'... when they noticed my infamous anxiety moments and that I basically freeze in the middle of a game. That term kind of became a standard for these moments in Aspire ". Another example is when vVv SonTran recalls when "we started to sing along during practice to songs such as Temp0's 'Drone So Hard' and the song 'Look At My Horse' and we just started cracking up when we were taking turns singing it."
What's next for Aspire? We expect the team to keep practicing, improving, and growing together for quite some time. While there are no player positions left open on the team, there is still an opportunity to participate in this exciting new idea. We are currently still looking for a Protoss and Zerg coach for the program. We also need to find a dedicated community member interested in getting some team management experience as an Assistant Manager. You can find a description of these positions here. If anything catches your eye and you'd like to apply, you can do so here.We are also looking to get a second Aspire team put together. If you are interested in being a part of the second Aspire team, you can apply here.
Although Aspire positions fill up fast, we give priority to our community members when spots are available.
In closing, I want to thank Team Liquid for the awesome space they've created for the SC2 community, and I want to thank the SC2 community for making this game such a huge success in eSports. Let's continue working to make this the best, most competitive, most inclusive eSport possible! There's so much we can do to keep this thing going, and I hope that Aspire will become one of the pillars that supports SC2 as an eSport well into the future. Thanks to everyone who has read this far, and I look forward to reporting much more success in the future
If you have any questions for the team, please ask them in this thread. I've asked all Aspire members to monitor it for the next several days and to engage everyone who has a question or interest.
And hey guys, my name is Fearful! I am willing to answer any questions you ask about me or the program of Aspire. If you are looking for zerg coaching, I am willing to offer free coaching sessions so that I can improve on my teaching and analytical abilites as a coach.
We are here to start something that has never been started before. Let's make it happen!
On November 06 2012 14:29 BluDragon wrote: Aspire is looking great! Sadly, I'm with OpTiK. vVv was definitely a friendly community and environment. Maybe Aspire vs OpTiK Academy soon? ;D
Let's set up a date and maybe we can get a stream on the War as well! You were fun to have around on the channel and everything.
This is the kind of thing the community needs more of! It's so difficult for players to make it to the top levels on their own, and this approach provides a much more structured way to focus on the game above and beyond even what an ingame guild could do. Congrats to everyone on their improvements, and I hope to see more improvement from all of you guys.
On November 06 2012 14:41 Bobbias wrote: This is the kind of thing the community needs more of! It's so difficult for players to make it to the top levels on their own, and this approach provides a much more structured way to focus on the game above and beyond even what an ingame guild could do. Congrats to everyone on their improvements, and I hope to see more improvement from all of you guys.
Thank you for the kind words, Bobbias.
We try to do our best in helping each other out on whatever we have a problem on (wether it is about engaging at a particular time, macro fixes, etc.)
And I have to agree that the community needs more of these types of academies all around
On November 06 2012 14:16 Zenbrez wrote: Cool thread!
Tuff, my friend was talking to me about you literally 2 hours ago, haha
You were talking about me? :D
MY friend asked if I knew who you were, I thought he was referring to Ruff (only guy in vVv with "uff" as far as I knew), but he spelled it out "Tuff". I had not heard of you before, but thought it was kinda funny to see your name here a few hours later. He said he played you before (and lost).
On November 06 2012 14:41 Bobbias wrote: This is the kind of thing the community needs more of! It's so difficult for players to make it to the top levels on their own, and this approach provides a much more structured way to focus on the game above and beyond even what an ingame guild could do. Congrats to everyone on their improvements, and I hope to see more improvement from all of you guys.
I agree. Many people expect the top players to appear out of nowhere, we are simply trying to fill that void in the community, adding our small bit. I wish this would encourage others to follow suit, though, and even work together more. This is about growing the game and raising the new possible talents, who actually want something more serious than couple of games per week.
On November 06 2012 14:29 BluDragon wrote: Aspire is looking great! Sadly, I'm with OpTiK. vVv was definitely a friendly community and environment. Maybe Aspire vs OpTiK Academy soon? ;D
To anyone seeking a friendly wars, practices or even to cooperate, just feel free to contact me - either throw me a pm here or hit my e-mail babytoss@vvv-gaming.com - I'll be more than happy to see this venture growing well beyond my own team; as I think there's a potential in seeing similar ventures, where players have the opportunity to grow & enjoy a reliable team atmosphere.
On November 07 2012 08:17 totalpigeon wrote: Are you guys NA or EU? Or open to both?
Most of us are NA, but Babytoss is EU. We play on NA :D
To be 100% clear, BabyToss and Oakwarrior are both in the EU, but keep schedules that facilitate practicing with a majority NA team. Anyone in a similar position is welcome
vVv is so cool, when I saw them at mlg Providence a year ago, they had so many people there, and they all were cheering on their players in their matches. Definitely a fun community!
On November 07 2012 09:46 Dosey wrote: Nazgul and Poser next to each other on the graphic...
On purpose, or funny coincidence...?
Actually, it's a coincidence, since I made the graphics for vVv Gaming to post here - and I still don't get the reference/joke here, if there is any... TT;;
On November 07 2012 09:46 Dosey wrote: Nazgul and Poser next to each other on the graphic...
On purpose, or funny coincidence...?
Actually, it's a coincidence, since I made the graphics for vVv Gaming to post here - and I still don't get the reference/joke here, if there is any... TT;;
On November 07 2012 10:07 TBone- wrote: vVv is so cool, when I saw them at mlg Providence a year ago, they had so many people there, and they all were cheering on their players in their matches. Definitely a fun community!
Yeah, providence was a blast! I'm vVv Wakai btw, if you guys have any questions on how we run practices, don't hesitate!
I actually used to play with BabyToss fairly often about a year ago, but we kinda lost touch a little bit after you joined vVv, but i'm glad to know you were able to overcome your struggles. :D I wish I could be a part of this, but seeing as how I don't have a mic, and I practice at really inconsistent times of the day, I feel like I wouldn't be a very likely/useful candidate. ;_; This sounds amazing though.
On November 07 2012 10:07 TBone- wrote: vVv is so cool, when I saw them at mlg Providence a year ago, they had so many people there, and they all were cheering on their players in their matches. Definitely a fun community!
I still have yet to go to my first event. School is getting in the way ^_^ I hope to go one day to cheer on my family.
On November 08 2012 05:08 Aldehyde wrote: The banners take up more space than the text itself which is a wee bit annoying. Otherwise cool post
I actually thought something seemed off with the headers too, I think you nailed it. Next time we'll definitely make sure they are more in line with the size of the text.
I question what exactly vVv people are apsiring to be apart of. I'd be embarassed to be on a team with RuFF. Glon is good but for the most part this org has had very little impact in the sc2 pro scene since the first few months of sc2. Plus all of their threads seem full of self bumps...good luck to the players tho I don't seem to understand the organization.
On November 08 2012 06:20 KoDo wrote: I question what exactly vVv people are apsiring to be apart of. I'd be embarassed to be on a team with RuFF. Glon is good but for the most part this org has had very little impact in the sc2 pro scene since the first few months of sc2. Plus all of their threads seem full of self bumps...good luck to the players tho I don't seem to understand the organization.
The self bumps stuff is literally stuff they're required to do. It's a bit nuts, tbh. the Academy is a cool thing, but I have to agree, I generally have a negative view of vVv as a team in general.
On November 08 2012 06:20 KoDo wrote: I question what exactly vVv people are apsiring to be apart of. I'd be embarassed to be on a team with RuFF. Glon is good but for the most part this org has had very little impact in the sc2 pro scene since the first few months of sc2. Plus all of their threads seem full of self bumps...good luck to the players tho I don't seem to understand the organization.
The self bumps stuff is literally stuff they're required to do. It's a bit nuts, tbh. the Academy is a cool thing, but I have to agree, I generally have a negative view of vVv as a team in general.
I personally am aspiring to be a part of the SC2 scene in general, when I joined vVv they told me right away that their main goal was to be a talent factory for players, and I believe they've done that. I have only been at vVv for 4 months at most, and yet even I know that they have developed a lot of different talent. Ruff and Titan are both coaches at Hotkeyit.com now and were both very good for a while. Rocker is on LightEsports, and Daisuki is sponsored by Nitrix. I understand that for some reason you guys have a problem with Ruff??? I watched his stream for the longest time so I don't even know why. He's not even around anymore though.
The point of this post is to tell everyone about vVvBabytoss' Aspire team, and how great it is. I have had a wonderful time on this aspire team, and I think it is one of the best atmospheres around.
Not to mention KoDo that saying "this org has had very little impact in the sc2 pro scene" is rude and doesn't make sense. Most sc2 "organizations" don't even last 3 months. You don't know the history of vVvGaming or the contribution that LordJerith and the rest of the management have put into it.
I am not bumping this thread because I have to, I am bumping this thread because I want people to be included in our environment, and I want to encourage other organizations to start academy teams as well. I encourage everyone who's reading these comments, to keep an open mind about vVv, despite whatever you might have heard??? and come check out the aspire team.
Well, frankly, I've never had a high opinion of Jerith. Partly because his opinion of himself is high enough for the both of us.
But the point is that the main vVv team doesn't really seem to have much going on at the moment besides Glon being a strong player, so what is the end goal for these aspire players? To get good enough so that they can leave?
Our goal is to help us improve enough so that one day we can get signed with another team. We are, as Tuff said, a talent factory. The goal is have players improve through practice, dedication, and analysis so that we can be good enough to get a sponorship with another team and make a good showing someday. We have no intentions of buying skill such as EG. Our goal is find talent and to help develop it. That is why we are here. If more teams did this, the proscene, in my opinion, will be bigger. The community will be better as well in my opinion.
It's important you guys realize the goals and ambitions of an organization like vVv. Firstly, throw what you see as the "traditional" organizations out the window. Their goal is to better their players, staff, etc in all ways possible for both the long-term and short-term. If those players become so good that they must leave the organization to continue their growth, then so be it..that is what they are there for.
People need to understand that often times pro-gamers are not pro-gamers forever and that eventually they will need to move on. Now, they can either move on and get a job involving some trade skill or they can put their talent directly back into companies supporting eSports...and one of vVv's goals as an organization is to make that a reality for them by improving upon those skills right now. Truly preparing their players for everything.
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That being said, I feel like I am completely talking them up because I better understand them now. Trust me, I was confused as you all were at first because I looked at them with the traditional organization lens. However, that just isn't how they work...and they should be appreciated for their originality.
On November 08 2012 10:24 Zennith wrote: Well, frankly, I've never had a high opinion of Jerith. Partly because his opinion of himself is high enough for the both of us.
But the point is that the main vVv team doesn't really seem to have much going on at the moment besides Glon being a strong player, so what is the end goal for these aspire players? To get good enough so that they can leave?
haha that's really true, its one of the reasons I had to leave back when vVv first made their sc2 team.
Dunno they used to have a pretty good pro team until jerry made some stupid rules/changes which caused a lot of them to leave or become inactive. I am surprised Glon is still on vVv to be honest considering his decent results, but maybe they give him more then I am thinking ^^.
I'll just chime in to say that even as a talent factory, it's not just limited to gaming. It's a talent factory all around. Personally, I've been writing there for a while, with a few pieces done already. And before you ask, no, I'm not getting anything "back". I'm doing this to improve my skill Do note that I've written for several gaming sites before, including GameReplays.org.
As for the gamer side, it's a wonderful place to be. It's a blast to play with the team, because they're actually all decent people, and good players. I've been in a few teams in my lifetime, some of which were comprised of, well, mostly trolls, but vVv has a pretty solid stance on teamwork and professionalism, so none of that here. It's a pretty sweet place to improve. I myself found it because I was "shopping" through various teams and asking if they had some sort of program like this. Nope. Not even an answer, mostly.
I guess I'm the noob member there, but so far I've enjoyed my stay. The only thing I'd like to improve right now is for the SC2 section to become a bit more active, so go ahead and jump on that >_>
On November 08 2012 05:59 ReachTheSky wrote: Whatever happened to the VVV sc2 team?
A lot of our players felt that we shouldn't put an emphasis on the type of learning environment we were seeking to create and should emulate other organizations like a Checksix or Reign. Since that model is extremely hard to get right, as management we were limited in what we could do as a community-focused organization to keep those players around. Either we compromised everything that makes vVv great, or we helped them find teams where their goals were aligned. In the end, we felt that the community aspect of vVv wasn't worth sacrificing given the risk involved. We don't begrudge these players for leaving, but wish them good luck. Not everyone is entrepreneurial-minded, and it's definitely easier for those players to join an organization that will meet their goals immediately than trying to build that support structure in vVv from the ground up.
On November 08 2012 06:20 KoDo wrote: I question what exactly vVv people are apsiring to be apart of. I'd be embarassed to be on a team with RuFF. Glon is good but for the most part this org has had very little impact in the sc2 pro scene since the first few months of sc2. Plus all of their threads seem full of self bumps...good luck to the players tho I don't seem to understand the organization.
I think one of the greatest things about vVv Gaming is that even if all the pro players disappeared tomorrow then our Aspire team would still be able to aspire to make SC2 the best competitive scene possible. We have a solid group of people who are passionate about the game and want to improve and do great things, and whether they achieve that or not, or stick with vVv Gaming or not, the real benefit is to the SC2 community at large.
On November 08 2012 06:20 KoDo wrote: I question what exactly vVv people are apsiring to be apart of. I'd be embarassed to be on a team with RuFF. Glon is good but for the most part this org has had very little impact in the sc2 pro scene since the first few months of sc2. Plus all of their threads seem full of self bumps...good luck to the players tho I don't seem to understand the organization.
The self bumps stuff is literally stuff they're required to do. It's a bit nuts, tbh. the Academy is a cool thing, but I have to agree, I generally have a negative view of vVv as a team in general.
Actually, we've revised our processes a lot over the past few months. Briefly, we've decided to offer a variety of ways for people to pursue their passions as members of vVv Gaming. The old model you are describing is no longer with us. As for this thread, the only replies from within vVv are from Aspire members and management.
On November 08 2012 06:20 KoDo wrote: I question what exactly vVv people are apsiring to be apart of. I'd be embarassed to be on a team with RuFF. Glon is good but for the most part this org has had very little impact in the sc2 pro scene since the first few months of sc2. Plus all of their threads seem full of self bumps...good luck to the players tho I don't seem to understand the organization.
I think one of the greatest things about vVv Gaming is that even if all the pro players disappeared tomorrow then our Aspire team would still be able to aspire to make SC2 the best competitive scene possible. We have a solid group of people who are passionate about the game and want to improve and do great things, and whether they achieve that or not, or stick with vVv Gaming or not, the real benefit is to the SC2 community at large.
On November 08 2012 06:20 KoDo wrote: I question what exactly vVv people are apsiring to be apart of. I'd be embarassed to be on a team with RuFF. Glon is good but for the most part this org has had very little impact in the sc2 pro scene since the first few months of sc2. Plus all of their threads seem full of self bumps...good luck to the players tho I don't seem to understand the organization.
The self bumps stuff is literally stuff they're required to do. It's a bit nuts, tbh. the Academy is a cool thing, but I have to agree, I generally have a negative view of vVv as a team in general.
Actually, we've revised our processes a lot over the past few months. Briefly, we've decided to offer a variety of ways for people to pursue their passions as members of vVv Gaming. The old model you are describing is no longer with us. As for this thread, the only replies from within vVv are from Aspire members and management.
Totally fair - I haven't checked out vVv in a while. Glad to hear that you're revised that rule, definitely a step in the right direction in my mind.
I dont know the whole OP is way too positive and overhyped. I looks like a cheap way to promote the brand (come on, if you study all GSL games of your race you are in masters in like a month or three). Also taken from their forums (applications): "If you are looking for extra credit, here are ways you can add value beyond the above:" followed by the common social hyping their players, brand, etc. Kinda feels like vVv is building a future market for coaching.
and guys, just read this thread on their HP: "Announcement: New Applicants check this out FIRST before Applying!" just pure gold. (eg. You spend money everyday. Spend some on vVv Gaming! Vote with your wallet!)
I really feel that NA/EU gaming clans should focus more on being good gamers than milking money from fans through streaming/coaching. Maybe there will be a time when casters dont have to hype foreign players to the max to generate any interest, cause they know they just play bad/sloppy and dont stand a chance. But i am not optimistic and looking forward to the ridiculous hyping of players playing/streaming HotS atm in future events.
We're actually looking for coaches to train our players (myself included). So we are focusing on becoming better, and I honestly don't see any sort of milking happening now or in the future. The sole reason for such endeavors dying out is - you guessed it - lack of attention. Aspiring players have absolutely no coverage until there's a major upset or they suddenly start winning everything. Until that, people have all their attention turned to (mostly) highest-level Koreans and the best foreigners. There are actually teamleagues out there for amateur/hobby/fun/semi-serious/academy teams, but you're lucky to discover them due to professional stuff drowning them out :/ So yeah, advertising is a must, to a degree. Think of it as an experience exchange program (because that's what it is :D ). Everybody wins. I mean, a lot of players have motivation problems because it's so hard to actually break out on the scene (caster/player/writer etc.), and this raises everybody's chances just a wee bit.
Any sort of "overhype" you might detect there is probably just the choice of wording sounding like that. To be frank, most of the articles on the site sound like that, and I don't have a problem with it. Why? It's actually a cohesive organization with its own jargon, set of rules, guidelines, and, of course, requirements. If you join up as a fully-fledged member and if you're inactive, you get booted. If you're a massive troll, you get booted. I guess that's not any different from what you see in other organizations, correct? Maybe the style of writing comes across as "overly" professional or "tryhard" or w/e, but it's just a characteristic element.
On November 10 2012 19:54 Oakwarrior wrote: We're actually looking for coaches to train our players (myself included). So we are focusing on becoming better, and I honestly don't see any sort of milking happening now or in the future. The sole reason for such endeavors dying out is - you guessed it - lack of attention. Aspiring players have absolutely no coverage until there's a major upset or they suddenly start winning everything. Until that, people have all their attention turned to (mostly) highest-level Koreans and the best foreigners. There are actually teamleagues out there for amateur/hobby/fun/semi-serious/academy teams, but you're lucky to discover them due to professional stuff drowning them out :/
So yeah, advertising is a must, to a degree. Think of it as an experience exchange program (because that's what it is :D ). Everybody wins. I mean, a lot of players have motivation problems because it's so hard to actually break out on the scene (caster/player/writer etc.), and this raises everybody's chances just a wee bit.
But the problem is that right now, there's no reason to advertise these players, because they aren't very good. There are some great unknowns out there right now, but they're definitely not a part of this team. Focus on getting better. Advertising should come later.
On November 10 2012 22:50 Zennith wrote: But the problem is that right now, there's no reason to advertise these players, because they aren't very good. There are some great unknowns out there right now, but they're definitely not a part of this team. Focus on getting better. Advertising should come later.
I kind of disagree with you in the statement that this thread advertises the players. What it does try to show, is the spirit behind the team. If we tried to advertise the players, you'd see the full roster at the end, with people's twitters, etc. I was very pleased with the subtle way this was written, as it doesn't focus on the players themselves as much, rather than shows what the team is trying to do.
There's still this problem, that people expect the top players to appear out of nowhere. Many people quit, because they never get noticed, even though they become up & coming players (Attero, anyone?). Because nobody helps them to reach that; who'd expose them. Everything comes in modesty and balance in my opinion, so of course, over-exposure is bad and can be seen as attention grabbing & intrusive. Now, look at this: In real sport, you have teams training their talents, you sadly don't see that happening in eSports. In my opinion, there's still this "old guys elite club", the same faces seen everywhere, with few new ones appearing out of thin. The question is - what do we really want? Richer, more vibrant community with teams helping their talents & passionate players to raise under their banner or the way it is now; just few, mostly always the same players playing vs each other and not really caring about next generation of players, in hopes someone will follow their example?
vVv Gaming is coming into next era, when it comes to SC2, a rejuvenation so to speak, after feedback from us, feedback from the community. There will be changes, and I for sure hope for the better, especially when it comes to reaching out to the SC2 community as a whole. So don't condemn an organization, because of past mistakes & because of lack of knowledge what we are about, as it is much more difficult to try and do something, compared to just complaining how this and that was done wrong.
On November 10 2012 22:50 Zennith wrote: But the problem is that right now, there's no reason to advertise these players, because they aren't very good. There are some great unknowns out there right now, but they're definitely not a part of this team. Focus on getting better. Advertising should come later.
I kind of disagree with you in the statement that this thread advertises the players. What it does try to show, is the spirit behind the team. If we tried to advertise the players, you'd see the full roster at the end, with people's twitters, etc. I was very pleased with the subtle way this was written, as it doesn't focus on the players themselves as much, rather than shows what the team is trying to do.
There's still this problem, that people expect the top players to appear out of nowhere. Many people quit, because they never get noticed, even though they become up & coming players (Attero, anyone?). Because nobody helps them to reach that; who'd expose them. Everything comes in modesty and balance in my opinion, so of course, over-exposure is bad and can be seen as attention grabbing & intrusive. Now, look at this: In real sport, you have teams training their talents, you sadly don't see that happening in eSports. In my opinion, there's still this "old guys elite club", the same faces seen everywhere, with few new ones appearing out of thin. The question is - what do we really want? Richer, more vibrant community with teams helping their talents & passionate players to raise under their banner or the way it is now; just few, mostly always the same players playing vs each other and not really caring about next generation of players, in hopes someone will follow their example?
vVv Gaming is coming into next era, when it comes to SC2, a rejuvenation so to speak, after feedback from us, feedback from the community. There will be changes, and I for sure hope for the better, especially when it comes to reaching out to the SC2 community as a whole. So don't condemn an organization, because of past mistakes & because of lack of knowledge what we are about, as it is much more difficult to try and do something, compared to just complaining how this and that was done wrong.
Dude, I started a whole thread about development of talent and the creation of minor leagues in Starcraft. I am bobviously in favor of it. But the problem is, if you can't get to a certain level on your own, you almost certainly don't have the talent to go pro. We need to be focusing on the players who are really, really strong (attero is a great example) who don't have a way to break through. We don't need to be focusing on diamond players.
On November 11 2012 01:20 Zennith wrote: Dude, I started a whole thread about development of talent and the creation of minor leagues in Starcraft. I am bobviously in favor of it. But the problem is, if you can't get to a certain level on your own, you almost certainly don't have the talent to go pro. We need to be focusing on the players who are really, really strong (attero is a great example) who don't have a way to break through. We don't need to be focusing on diamond players.
And that is exactly where I think you are wrong in your mindset. A perfect example of player, who went from silver to semi-pro level is Glon. vVv took him as a silver lvl player and look where he is now. He had help from his stronger teammates. Of course, teammates can nudge you forward, but the work behind it is your own doing, that is true. But, having a solid team behind you can do wonders, no matter where you start. Sadly, from what I see, many amateur teams lose interest quick. So, it is not very easy to find that solid organization with solid teammates who'd not fall apart after mere few months.
Everyone starts somewhere. What this community needs is more positivity; not negative nancies saying that this cannot be done. It can be done. If it's done right, with the right people.
On November 11 2012 01:20 Zennith wrote: Dude, I started a whole thread about development of talent and the creation of minor leagues in Starcraft. I am bobviously in favor of it. But the problem is, if you can't get to a certain level on your own, you almost certainly don't have the talent to go pro. We need to be focusing on the players who are really, really strong (attero is a great example) who don't have a way to break through. We don't need to be focusing on diamond players.
And that is exactly where I think you are wrong in your mindset. A perfect example of player, who went from silver to semi-pro level is Glon. vVv took him as a silver lvl player and look where he is now. He had help from his stronger teammates. Of course, teammates can nudge you forward, but the work behind it is your own doing, that is true. But, having a solid team behind you can do wonders, no matter where you start. Sadly, from what I see, many amateur teams lose interest quick. So, it is not very easy to find that solid organization with solid teammates who'd not fall apart after mere few months.
Everyone starts somewhere. What this community needs is more positivity; not negative nancies saying that this cannot be done. It can be done. If it's done right, with the right people.
Am I saying it can't be done? It absolutely can - but the community needs to be focusing on the players deserving of it. Glon clearly has talent - who is to say he wouldn't have gotten there on his own? There are limited resources in the community, and they should be spent focusing on players who have already shown talent, determination, and skill.
Out of curiosity, who is the Terran coach? Says you are looking for only Protoss and Zerg coaches.
Is the end goal to develop "professional" players or just players that can sort of compete in clan wars with other NA teams?
If the goal is to just provide a casual community for which low level players can improve in, this might be the way to go but I don't see the end result being a team that can be considered professional or that will be able to compete with even the best NA teams. I thought that was the vision of vVv at one point, has it changed?
I guess we'll find out in the next few years? GL vVv
On November 10 2012 17:50 gingerfluffmuff wrote: I dont know the whole OP is way too positive and overhyped. I looks like a cheap way to promote the brand (come on, if you study all GSL games of your race you are in masters in like a month or three). Also taken from their forums (applications): "If you are looking for extra credit, here are ways you can add value beyond the above:" followed by the common social hyping their players, brand, etc. Kinda feels like vVv is building a future market for coaching.
and guys, just read this thread on their HP: "Announcement: New Applicants check this out FIRST before Applying!" just pure gold. (eg. You spend money everyday. Spend some on vVv Gaming! Vote with your wallet!)
I really feel that NA/EU gaming clans should focus more on being good gamers than milking money from fans through streaming/coaching. Maybe there will be a time when casters dont have to hype foreign players to the max to generate any interest, cause they know they just play bad/sloppy and dont stand a chance. But i am not optimistic and looking forward to the ridiculous hyping of players playing/streaming HotS atm in future events.
Let's be fair now, I'm sure there are plenty of players who watch GSL, MLG, and other major tournaments and are stuck in bronze-gold anyway. Some people just don't learn without the right environment, which we are attempting to provide.
As for being a cheap way to promote the brand, I'm not sure what your point is. Should everyone have to spend millions of dollars to enter the competitive gaming space? Aren't we looking for innovative new ways to make eSports work so we can grow this space? We are definitely trying to organize something that can work long term and provide a net benefit to the eSports scene.
As for the part you quoted about extra credit, of course we consider it positive if applicants promote our team and players and other news Why wouldn't we encourage and reinforce that? It sounds like you're just looking for reasons to dislike us.
Regarding the announcement you are misquoting, I'm having trouble finding it. Could you link me so I can provide a better explanation?
I'm also not sure how we are milking money from people through streaming/coaching? Could you provide a better explanation?
Thanks and I hope you take a closer look at what we do and see that your negative reaction is based on a series of misconceptions (as close as I can tell anyway)!
On November 11 2012 03:08 MurDeRsc2 wrote: Out of curiosity, who is the Terran coach? Says you are looking for only Protoss and Zerg coaches.
Is the end goal to develop "professional" players or just players that can sort of compete in clan wars with other NA teams?
If the goal is to just provide a casual community for which low level players can improve in, this might be the way to go but I don't see the end result being a team that can be considered professional or that will be able to compete with even the best NA teams. I thought that was the vision of vVv at one point, has it changed?
I guess we'll find out in the next few years? GL vVv
The terran coach right now is vVv Einherjar. The goal of the program is to set talent development in motion, helping players achieve experience and develop their talents so that they can reach their true potential. It's not expected that everyone in the programs will graduate to become pro players, but at the same time it's not expected that no one will graduate to the pro level either. Like Zennith has said, not everyone has the talent to develop themselves into a pro. However, by providing structure and organizational support for the development of potential pro players, we are putting ourselves a little bit more on the same level as Koreans, who already have this infrastructure and then some.
Also, if players like Attero and such were interested in forming a team under vVv in an Aspire-like environment, I would be all for it. From what I have seen this is not the case. We provide for the players who WANT to improve in this type of environment, and we certainly don't want to force anyone or make anyone feel like this is the only way.
On November 11 2012 03:08 MurDeRsc2 wrote: Out of curiosity, who is the Terran coach? Says you are looking for only Protoss and Zerg coaches.
Is the end goal to develop "professional" players or just players that can sort of compete in clan wars with other NA teams?
If the goal is to just provide a casual community for which low level players can improve in, this might be the way to go but I don't see the end result being a team that can be considered professional or that will be able to compete with even the best NA teams. I thought that was the vision of vVv at one point, has it changed?
I guess we'll find out in the next few years? GL vVv
The end goal of aspire is to develop high masters players and teach them as much as possible about getting exposure and how to pratice/train etc. Once the players are at that level it is up to them as to whether or not they want to try and pursue professional starcraft 2. From what I understand that is the goal of aspire.
The goal of vVv Starcraft 2 is to have players play for them under their banner. So as Sugarbear said if players like Attero were to come to vVv and request sponsorship or whatever.
Thanks everyone for the great response and wishes <3
On November 10 2012 17:50 gingerfluffmuff wrote: I dont know the whole OP is way too positive and overhyped. I looks like a cheap way to promote the brand (come on, if you study all GSL games of your race you are in masters in like a month or three). Also taken from their forums (applications): "If you are looking for extra credit, here are ways you can add value beyond the above:" followed by the common social hyping their players, brand, etc. Kinda feels like vVv is building a future market for coaching.
and guys, just read this thread on their HP: "Announcement: New Applicants check this out FIRST before Applying!" just pure gold. (eg. You spend money everyday. Spend some on vVv Gaming! Vote with your wallet!)
I really feel that NA/EU gaming clans should focus more on being good gamers than milking money from fans through streaming/coaching. Maybe there will be a time when casters dont have to hype foreign players to the max to generate any interest, cause they know they just play bad/sloppy and dont stand a chance. But i am not optimistic and looking forward to the ridiculous hyping of players playing/streaming HotS atm in future events.
vVvGaming as a website is all about adding value, you get out of vVv what you put in. vVvGaming tries to produce members of the community who are active and do things like cast, stream, and follow/ understand Social media.
However, vVvGaming provides the option of donations for people who are simply looking for a community to be a part of, but do not have time to be a player or a streamer or a caster or a social media co-ordinator.
I agree with you that NA teams need to practice more and be better games, but everyone involved with professional sc2 knows that exposure is half the battle in becoming a professional starcraft 2 player.
Of Course we hype the brands that sponsor us?
We get a lot of applicants, thats why there's the giant announcement telling people to read first.
Hey guys, if you ever have any questions, you can always ask on this or you can PM one of us on this and we'll try our best to get back to you as soon as we can. This Aspire program is really awesome ever since I got accepted into the program.
We are like a family like any other team I see. We are more than just a team. We are more than just friends. We are a family. We have built a relationship like one and we all care for and respect one another. We joke around, we encourage, we do things how friends and families do things.
If there were more things like this, I think the E-Sports scene as a whole would do much better. I think that this is a step in the right direction and I like that there are a few teams that do this because this is new and this is different. This can be done and I believe it will be done someday.
We just need those few people to take the initiative. If no one ever took the initiative to do anything, where do you think this world would be today? Or how do you think it would be?
EPT![[image loading]](http://babytossfighting.kilitar.cz/aspirebanners/aspirepromo.jpg)
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". Another example is when vVv SonTran recalls when "we started to sing along during practice to songs such as Temp0's 'Drone So Hard' and the song 'Look At My Horse' and we just started cracking up when we were taking turns singing it."![[image loading]](http://babytossfighting.kilitar.cz/aspirebanners/future.png)
![[image loading]](http://babytossfighting.kilitar.cz/aspirebanners/thanks.png)
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vVv was definitely a friendly community and environment. Maybe Aspire vs OpTiK Academy soon? ;D
