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In the last day I have briefly researched this and it's something I wanted to bring to more people's attention to be expounded upon, and that is the use of academies and general communities by professional teams in order to gain more followers and in turn help grow eSports.
Existing Conditions
From what I have found, these exists to an extent, but for the most part I don't feel they are being used to reach their full potential. Some examples of academies include Complexity Academy and Fnatic Academy. Now, these are great additions to their respective teams in their own right, but their roles are, shall we say, narrow? coL Acad is basically a B-Team for Complexity. It does a great job of bringing up and shaping young, new talent for their salaried team, but it could do so much more. Fnatic's academy (as well as others) is basically the same thing. But let's move to the communities.
Obviously, the biggest and best team community is Team Liquid. In fact its so big that it's its own entity and honestly is something different than what I want to propose, but at the same time is the grandest example of what a community can do for a team. So let's throw out some other examples: Team Dignitas and Evil Geniuses. Dignitas has a forum on their website, but there really isn't a community there and for the most part the forums seem dead. As for Evil Geniuses, as well as many other teams, they don't even have a forum/community to speak of. Perhaps they think it would be pointless?
The Spark
Yesterday I noticed the thread about FXOpen expanding to NA and absorbing Team Legion. I previously knew about Legion as a team as well as a gaming community. This community has a SC2 section called The Dark Side, which is being carried over to the new Team FXO home that will serve as an academy for the team. But the big difference between something like Complexity Academy and The Dark Side is that The Dark Side is welcoming to everyone and has within it a structure that allows players of all leagues to take part in competition like clan wars and tournaments, and it's officially recognized by the owners of the team.
So I started wondering if others existed. Oddly enough the first place I went to check this was ROOT Gaming, and that's where I found among their community forums, SEED Gaming Community (which is hilariously awesome, btw). Here is the first post in that thread started this July:
"I remember listening to CatZ Stream, and him (possibly joking) about a ROOT Gaming community, or an academy like Complexity has. But he said that he would call it SEED. I was wondering we could make this REAL!
We could have a SC2 channel:
SEED Gaming
and we could form our own little Clan for all members of the community
Bronze - GM"
Now, I haven't (*huge pun incoming*) dug through that thread yet but it seems the seeds have been planted and its growing(sorry, couldn't resist). So that's what got me thinking how cool it would be for the fans of major teams, and how much more beneficial it could be for the teams themselves to host these communities on their websites. If you are keeping an active community like these on your team's website, that's even more eyes on your sponsor's advertisements, which in the long run is better for everyone.
The Future
Here's my starry-eyed vision of what this could lead to (some of these ideas come from reading The Dark Side and SEED Gaming threads): All your major teams would house a community for their fans. This community (strictly SC2 related) would have a chat channel where they can hang out together in game. The team would select staff members to organize the community and run it according to their teams standards and expectations. In these communities you could have A, B and even C team rosters that would participate in clan wars with other team's communities (SEED Gaming vs Simplicity Gaming anyone?) and possibly even start leagues among them. In these communities you would find in house events, practice partners, casters/streaming, coaching, and for those aspiring gamers the ability to rise through the ranks and earn a spot on the main roster.
To further encourage activity in these communities, the pro players could have regular interactions with their community with things like pro/am 2v2 games, coaching, Q&As, exclusive VODs created just for their community, etc. The possibilities are endless and the benefits for all parties are great.
Of course, all this would only be possible if the demand is there, so what say you?
Poll: Do you want to see your favorite team create an environment like this?Yes (65) 87% No (10) 13% 75 total votes Your vote: Do you want to see your favorite team create an environment like this? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
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At Team FXO we have an academy team (TDS - The Dark Side). If you would like to participate in the academy team you can register and apply for the team at teamfxo(dot)com
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vVv Gaming has an Academy team as well. So, these are out there, just gotta look at the right places. 
And what would be even cooler, if all these teams actually assembled and then made a teamleague consisting of their "children" competing. Voila, not only the teams gain more exposure for themselves, but they also help raise the next generation of players => more people into SC2. I think a win situation here, as long as someone is willing to put in the work into it.
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But do any of these academy teams actually have anything to offer? Ive been waiting for another col academy tourney forever. or for a community to join with a decent team to rise out of.
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TDS has Clan wars going on all the time, They have one on the 4th for the diamond+ players and one on the 12th for BSG players. FXOpen already has it set up so that players will be able to have pro/community days to play with or against the pros.
Academies such as TDS truly allow people from low leagues like bronze to reach their full potential and to become Pro players if they put in the work. Who knows, there may be the next Flash in one of these academies but we wont know unless we do something like this. This is definitely a great idea.
A team league is possible but it would definitely need cooperation from all the staff of each team to be able to set it up. As well as a moderator/arbiter so no foul play/hacking/cheating will happen. If it was possible to set it up in ESEA or MLG or something, would be even better because the structure was already there. Hell, we could even set it up in Z33k!
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On October 31 2012 05:15 bullseyel wrote:
A team league is possible but it would definitely need cooperation from all the staff of each team to be able to set it up. As well as a moderator/arbiter so no foul play/hacking/cheating will happen. If it was possible to set it up in ESEA or MLG or something, would be even better because the structure was already there. Hell, we could even set it up in Z33k!
That'd be nice, but from my nearly 4 months experience of running an Academy team, it always falls down on people on wanting to do something, but then realizing it actually requires certain level of commitment & work, so they decide to leave it alone. But, I still believe that the possibilities of this are simply awesome. Teamleagues, partnerships between the Academy teams, practices in between the teams. That is what could help this community, certainly far more than all this negativity floating around here recently. Just IMO.
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On October 31 2012 05:15 bullseyel wrote:
TDS has Clan wars going on all the time, They have one on the 4th for the diamond+ players and one on the 12th for BSG players. FXOpen already has it set up so that players will be able to have pro/community days to play with or against the pros.
Academies such as TDS truly allow people from low leagues like bronze to reach their full potential and to become Pro players if they put in the work. Who knows, there may be the next Flash in one of these academies but we wont know unless we do something like this. This is definitely a great idea.
A team league is possible but it would definitely need cooperation from all the staff of each team to be able to set it up. As well as a moderator/arbiter so no foul play/hacking/cheating will happen. If it was possible to set it up in ESEA or MLG or something, would be even better because the structure was already there. Hell, we could even set it up in Z33k!
I thought TDS was diamond and under... atleast thats what it was when you guys set up clan wars with my former team. But thats one of my biggest issues with stuff like that, you have a pro/community day? that's so divided, Id rather just practice with pros 8 hours a day lol...
Teamleagues have never worked out for any team ive been on, so much inactivity after a certain point =/
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On October 31 2012 05:31 KiF1rE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 05:15 bullseyel wrote:
TDS has Clan wars going on all the time, They have one on the 4th for the diamond+ players and one on the 12th for BSG players. FXOpen already has it set up so that players will be able to have pro/community days to play with or against the pros.
Academies such as TDS truly allow people from low leagues like bronze to reach their full potential and to become Pro players if they put in the work. Who knows, there may be the next Flash in one of these academies but we wont know unless we do something like this. This is definitely a great idea.
A team league is possible but it would definitely need cooperation from all the staff of each team to be able to set it up. As well as a moderator/arbiter so no foul play/hacking/cheating will happen. If it was possible to set it up in ESEA or MLG or something, would be even better because the structure was already there. Hell, we could even set it up in Z33k! I thought TDS was diamond and under... atleast thats what it was when you guys set up clan wars with my former team. But thats one of my biggest issues with stuff like that, you have a pro/community day? that's so divided, Id rather just practice with pros 8 hours a day lol... Teamleagues have never worked out for any team ive been on, so much inactivity after a certain point =/
I dunno, the Z33k teamleague is actually seeming really successful at the moment. 16 teams have made the playoffs out of the initial 40 registered teams, and there's a decent chunk of change on the line. It's actually really exciting, and definitely really good for the scene. More people should check it out!
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On October 31 2012 05:33 Zennith wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 05:31 KiF1rE wrote:On October 31 2012 05:15 bullseyel wrote:
TDS has Clan wars going on all the time, They have one on the 4th for the diamond+ players and one on the 12th for BSG players. FXOpen already has it set up so that players will be able to have pro/community days to play with or against the pros.
Academies such as TDS truly allow people from low leagues like bronze to reach their full potential and to become Pro players if they put in the work. Who knows, there may be the next Flash in one of these academies but we wont know unless we do something like this. This is definitely a great idea.
A team league is possible but it would definitely need cooperation from all the staff of each team to be able to set it up. As well as a moderator/arbiter so no foul play/hacking/cheating will happen. If it was possible to set it up in ESEA or MLG or something, would be even better because the structure was already there. Hell, we could even set it up in Z33k! I thought TDS was diamond and under... atleast thats what it was when you guys set up clan wars with my former team. But thats one of my biggest issues with stuff like that, you have a pro/community day? that's so divided, Id rather just practice with pros 8 hours a day lol... Teamleagues have never worked out for any team ive been on, so much inactivity after a certain point =/ I dunno, the Z33k teamleague is actually seeming really successful at the moment. 16 teams have made the playoffs out of the initial 40 registered teams, and there's a decent chunk of change on the line. It's actually really exciting, and definitely really good for the scene. More people should check it out!
well I wasnt refferencing the league itself, it was more of the team and players, like every time I tried esea or something, after a point we just started forfeiting matches since I was the only player showing up on our roster =/
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We overhauled TDS with the merger of FXO. Even before then, we had masters though. We talk with the NA team everyday as well as play with them in customs and teams. So its not just those days specifically for pro/community days that we interact with them.
Not if we set it up like MLG or ESEA, with actual goals like money or something.
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I know you guys hate WOW. but this kinda reminds me of a WOW guild, your top players are your usual raiding part of the guild, people into pvp are the team players/UMS players. Then the rest are just there to level up and have fun, bronze to masters.
I always think an academy is such a good idea, i love the complexity one, where they get a computer etc and if they win inhouse academy tournaments they can win spots at mlg etc. Even gosuuser got moved to the real complexity team, i like the fostering talent idea.
But i do love your idea of a community representing teams, i love the idea. Imagine a silve/gold/platinum league Teamliquid squad or something like that. But if big teams had small teams for each league or something like that and hosted results on there site it would really improve the competitiveness in each of the league. I guess this would be on the community side to be trusted and put in the work to live up to the teamliquid brand. I dunno, it seems like a good idea just the amount of work makes it seems too much.
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On October 31 2012 05:35 KiF1rE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 05:33 Zennith wrote:On October 31 2012 05:31 KiF1rE wrote:On October 31 2012 05:15 bullseyel wrote:
TDS has Clan wars going on all the time, They have one on the 4th for the diamond+ players and one on the 12th for BSG players. FXOpen already has it set up so that players will be able to have pro/community days to play with or against the pros.
Academies such as TDS truly allow people from low leagues like bronze to reach their full potential and to become Pro players if they put in the work. Who knows, there may be the next Flash in one of these academies but we wont know unless we do something like this. This is definitely a great idea.
A team league is possible but it would definitely need cooperation from all the staff of each team to be able to set it up. As well as a moderator/arbiter so no foul play/hacking/cheating will happen. If it was possible to set it up in ESEA or MLG or something, would be even better because the structure was already there. Hell, we could even set it up in Z33k! I thought TDS was diamond and under... atleast thats what it was when you guys set up clan wars with my former team. But thats one of my biggest issues with stuff like that, you have a pro/community day? that's so divided, Id rather just practice with pros 8 hours a day lol... Teamleagues have never worked out for any team ive been on, so much inactivity after a certain point =/ I dunno, the Z33k teamleague is actually seeming really successful at the moment. 16 teams have made the playoffs out of the initial 40 registered teams, and there's a decent chunk of change on the line. It's actually really exciting, and definitely really good for the scene. More people should check it out! well I wasnt refferencing the league itself, it was more of the team and players, like every time I tried esea or something, after a point we just started forfeiting matches since I was the only player showing up on our roster =/
Yeah, I totally get that. I know I've experienced the same thing with SC2Clans league and Sc2Tour, where our opponents started vanishing - and it's because mid tier NA teams are CONSTANTLY in flux. There are a few that are stable and have been around, but generally teams open and close at the drop of a hat.
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On October 31 2012 05:41 Bourne wrote:
I know you guys hate WOW. but this kinda reminds me of a WOW guild, your top players are your usual raiding part of the guild, people into pvp are the team players/UMS players. Then the rest are just there to level up and have fun, bronze to masters.
I always think an academy is such a good idea, i love the complexity one, where they get a computer etc and if they win inhouse academy tournaments they can win spots at mlg etc. Even gosuuser got moved to the real complexity team, i like the fostering talent idea.
But i do love your idea of a community representing teams, i love the idea. Imagine a silve/gold/platinum league Teamliquid squad or something like that. But if big teams had small teams for each league or something like that and hosted results on there site it would really improve the competitiveness in each of the league. I guess this would be on the community side to be trusted and put in the work to live up to the teamliquid brand. I dunno, it seems like a good idea just the amount of work makes it seems too much.
lolwut
As far as I'm aware there are no academies offering something like that, unless you get promoted to the main team.
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On October 31 2012 05:35 KiF1rE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 05:33 Zennith wrote:On October 31 2012 05:31 KiF1rE wrote:On October 31 2012 05:15 bullseyel wrote:
TDS has Clan wars going on all the time, They have one on the 4th for the diamond+ players and one on the 12th for BSG players. FXOpen already has it set up so that players will be able to have pro/community days to play with or against the pros.
Academies such as TDS truly allow people from low leagues like bronze to reach their full potential and to become Pro players if they put in the work. Who knows, there may be the next Flash in one of these academies but we wont know unless we do something like this. This is definitely a great idea.
A team league is possible but it would definitely need cooperation from all the staff of each team to be able to set it up. As well as a moderator/arbiter so no foul play/hacking/cheating will happen. If it was possible to set it up in ESEA or MLG or something, would be even better because the structure was already there. Hell, we could even set it up in Z33k! I thought TDS was diamond and under... atleast thats what it was when you guys set up clan wars with my former team. But thats one of my biggest issues with stuff like that, you have a pro/community day? that's so divided, Id rather just practice with pros 8 hours a day lol... Teamleagues have never worked out for any team ive been on, so much inactivity after a certain point =/ I dunno, the Z33k teamleague is actually seeming really successful at the moment. 16 teams have made the playoffs out of the initial 40 registered teams, and there's a decent chunk of change on the line. It's actually really exciting, and definitely really good for the scene. More people should check it out! well I wasnt refferencing the league itself, it was more of the team and players, like every time I tried esea or something, after a point we just started forfeiting matches since I was the only player showing up on our roster =/
This is a common problem among the more 'minor, semi-pro' teams trying to break into the scene. That's why I think that having academies based upon the existing structure and guidelines of the more prominent teams it will have a better chance to succeed. The rosters would be huge compared to the 5-8 man rosters a lot of independent teams have, so fielding a roster on any given day would much easier.
And it is true that it would be a lot of work, but the beauty of it is that the academy wouldn't just be for the players. The staff who run it and the casters who stream events are also showing off their skills in hopes of one day being apart of the main team, so running successful events, even at a lower level, would be important to them.
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so true wareagle. Why I want to join something with an infrastructure that could support me in practice one day and not be gone the next. But none of those academy programs are open admittance...
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This is a common problem among the more 'minor, semi-pro' teams trying to break into the scene. That's why I think that having academies based upon the existing structure and guidelines of the more prominent teams it will have a better chance to succeed. The rosters would be huge compared to the 5-8 man rosters a lot of independent teams have, so fielding a roster on any given day would much easier.
And it is true that it would be a lot of work, but the beauty of it is that the academy wouldn't just be for the players. The staff who run it and the casters who stream events are also showing off their skills in hopes of one day being apart of the main team, so running successful events, even at a lower level, would be important to them.
We've set up clan wars that did not go through, simply because the other team did not have enough players. Its sad but it happens. Our roster alone for TDS, we have at least 20 players and the beauty of it is, is that they all volunteer to help each other out. If a player wants help with something, other players openly help out even when we are not practicing.
TDS is in no means perfect but it is continually evolving based on what the community and players want. When i thought of overhauling TDS and making it an academy, the thing I based it on was CoL academy but allowing all players to participate and join.
And Wareagle is right, its not just about the players who want to be pro but the staff who want to reach the pro level as well.
If more teams committed to these academies, the possibilities of helping Esports even having its own leagues within would be amazing as it will help amateur and semi pro teams get a feel of the Esport scene and recognition from the actual pro teams.
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On October 31 2012 06:09 bullseyel wrote:
We've set up clan wars that did not go through, simply because the other team did not have enough players. Its sad but it happens. Our roster alone for TDS, we have at least 20 players and the beauty of it is, is that they all volunteer to help each other out. If a player wants help with something, other players openly help out even when we are not practicing.
TDS is in no means perfect but it is continually evolving based on what the community and players want. When i thought of overhauling TDS and making it an academy, the thing I based it on was CoL academy but allowing all players to participate and join.
And Wareagle is right, its not just about the players who want to be pro but the staff who want to reach the pro level as well.
If more teams committed to these academies, the possibilities of helping Esports even having its own leagues within would be amazing as it will help amateur and semi pro teams get a feel of the Esport scene and recognition from the actual pro teams.
Your the only open one, But in terms of my goals and in terms of practice, I just don't feel I would fit in that academy situation with your team. Unless you opened your practice to your KR roster as well or something else changed. Especially since I was technically already rejected to the LGN team once a long time ago.
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On October 31 2012 05:50 WarEagle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 05:35 KiF1rE wrote:On October 31 2012 05:33 Zennith wrote:On October 31 2012 05:31 KiF1rE wrote:On October 31 2012 05:15 bullseyel wrote:
TDS has Clan wars going on all the time, They have one on the 4th for the diamond+ players and one on the 12th for BSG players. FXOpen already has it set up so that players will be able to have pro/community days to play with or against the pros.
Academies such as TDS truly allow people from low leagues like bronze to reach their full potential and to become Pro players if they put in the work. Who knows, there may be the next Flash in one of these academies but we wont know unless we do something like this. This is definitely a great idea.
A team league is possible but it would definitely need cooperation from all the staff of each team to be able to set it up. As well as a moderator/arbiter so no foul play/hacking/cheating will happen. If it was possible to set it up in ESEA or MLG or something, would be even better because the structure was already there. Hell, we could even set it up in Z33k! I thought TDS was diamond and under... atleast thats what it was when you guys set up clan wars with my former team. But thats one of my biggest issues with stuff like that, you have a pro/community day? that's so divided, Id rather just practice with pros 8 hours a day lol... Teamleagues have never worked out for any team ive been on, so much inactivity after a certain point =/ I dunno, the Z33k teamleague is actually seeming really successful at the moment. 16 teams have made the playoffs out of the initial 40 registered teams, and there's a decent chunk of change on the line. It's actually really exciting, and definitely really good for the scene. More people should check it out! well I wasnt refferencing the league itself, it was more of the team and players, like every time I tried esea or something, after a point we just started forfeiting matches since I was the only player showing up on our roster =/ This is a common problem among the more 'minor, semi-pro' teams trying to break into the scene. That's why I think that having academies based upon the existing structure and guidelines of the more prominent teams it will have a better chance to succeed. The rosters would be huge compared to the 5-8 man rosters a lot of independent teams have, so fielding a roster on any given day would much easier. And it is true that it would be a lot of work, but the beauty of it is that the academy wouldn't just be for the players. The staff who run it and the casters who stream events are also showing off their skills in hopes of one day being apart of the main team, so running successful events, even at a lower level, would be important to them.
This is true. Again, there are great examples of teams that endure and have solid, active rosters, but there are so many more that just can't keep it going. Academy's are great, but again, there's still limited access and a lot more players (even at high masters) than such academy teams could support right now. The existing teams that exist I think just need to expand and try to take on more players, perhaps. I'm not sure.
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On October 31 2012 06:36 Zennith wrote:
The existing teams that exist I think just need to expand and try to take on more players, perhaps. I'm not sure.
I totally agree with this. And more european and korean teams need to start having north american counter parts.
It's all about sustainability, and like most sports that sustainability comes from the individuals who love the sport but will never touch the field. But those people feel like they are more than just fans, they are apart of the team.
Imagine if EG decided tomorrow to start EG Academy, open to all levels of play, and was organized and moderated by someone on the EG staff. Tons of people would flock to their website to join up. And it would be nothing for one of their sponsors like steel series to later say 'throw an open tournament for your academy members' and put up a mouse and keyboard for prize. Sponsors sales go up, teams get more sponsors, and the fans suddenly have a deeper connection with their favorite team. Not to mention that other teams will not want to be left out to dry and they will start their own similar venture, and suddenly the teams are competing against each other for fan-ship. And when that starts happening, well that's when the fun really begins. LoL and Dota players will be running back to SC2 so fast, heads will be spinning.
And the beauty of it is the monetary investment needed to start it all off is next to nothing.
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On October 31 2012 06:41 WarEagle wrote:
And the beauty of it is the monetary investment needed to start it all off is next to nothing.
well the cost of it still isn't free, The people organizing said team on a major organization would still have to invest time, and if the org is paying them already, they have to pay them to run that as well.
Trying to find that post about where if checksix started something like that it would cost way to much and potentially break the team. it was several months ago and cant find it =/ But it did contain another point, that the academy/community members would also reflect on the brand, And without a way to control the brands image from that standpoint, It could lead into issues as well.
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Cost is nothing if the community is willing. The community itself donates, from what The Legion Gaming Community has done for most previous tournaments that include prizes. Members donated money or prizes such as steam games or visa cards etc for prizes. War eagle is right, its all about the commitment of the players/staff and community. To feel part of it in some way. Thats why we do so much for the academy and the community because we want people to feel involved and appreciated. We want them to be committed, so with them donating prizes, or money it proves their commitment.
All members when joining a community know the CoC and the rules, if they dont, they're dropped. Either way if someone BM's they themselves show their personal attitude/personality. Like any fanatics, there are people who wear tags and act inappropriate but in the end it goes to them, as they're the ones making themselves look bad. Not the team. That is where the staff comes in and quells a situation before it escalates. The FXO staff are fully aware of this situation and deal with it properly and swiftly. So that when Sponsors do look at the team and the community, nothing bad if something does happen, wont be substantial.
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On October 31 2012 07:10 bullseyel wrote:
Cost is nothing if the community is willing. The community itself donates, from what The Legion Gaming Community has done for most previous tournaments that include prizes. Members donated money or prizes such as steam games or visa cards etc for prizes. War eagle is right, its all about the commitment of the players/staff and community. To feel part of it in some way. Thats why we do so much for the academy and the community because we want people to feel involved and appreciated. We want them to be committed, so with them donating prizes, or money it proves their commitment.
All members when joining a community know the CoC and the rules, if they dont, they're dropped. Either way if someone BM's they themselves show their personal attitude/personality. Like any fanatics, there are people who wear tags and act inappropriate but in the end it goes to them, as they're the ones making themselves look bad. Not the team. That is where the staff comes in and quells a situation before it escalates. The FXO staff are fully aware of this situation and deal with it properly and swiftly. So that when Sponsors do look at the team and the community, nothing bad if something does happen, wont be substantial.
seems like you guys truly have most of it figured out then. Just wish other teams would follow suit and open up open signup academy type environments.
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On October 31 2012 07:32 KiF1rE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 07:10 bullseyel wrote:
Cost is nothing if the community is willing. The community itself donates, from what The Legion Gaming Community has done for most previous tournaments that include prizes. Members donated money or prizes such as steam games or visa cards etc for prizes. War eagle is right, its all about the commitment of the players/staff and community. To feel part of it in some way. Thats why we do so much for the academy and the community because we want people to feel involved and appreciated. We want them to be committed, so with them donating prizes, or money it proves their commitment.
All members when joining a community know the CoC and the rules, if they dont, they're dropped. Either way if someone BM's they themselves show their personal attitude/personality. Like any fanatics, there are people who wear tags and act inappropriate but in the end it goes to them, as they're the ones making themselves look bad. Not the team. That is where the staff comes in and quells a situation before it escalates. The FXO staff are fully aware of this situation and deal with it properly and swiftly. So that when Sponsors do look at the team and the community, nothing bad if something does happen, wont be substantial.
seems like you guys truly have most of it figured out then. Just wish other teams would follow suit and open up open signup academy type environments.
Agreed. There's also the question of - how do mid-level teams make the step up? How do they increase their brand and awareness? Is it solely based on results?
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thats where teamleagues come in. Thats also where sponsors and esports must come in to play.
Like i said before, if MLG or ESEA or GSL or NASL had a league JUST FOR academies or amatuer teams, there would be so many people wanting to join because of their own personal ego, being able to be recognized and possibly be noticed by the pro teams.
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On October 31 2012 08:14 bullseyel wrote:
thats where teamleagues come in. Thats also where sponsors and esports must come in to play.
Like i said before, if MLG or ESEA or GSL or NASL had a league JUST FOR academies or amatuer teams, there would be so many people wanting to join because of their own personal ego, being able to be recognized and possibly be noticed by the pro teams.
True statment. Which is why I have so much respect for IPL and the way they run their tournament. Hell, my team got cast by their main casters, and that was pretty awesome. I hope more leagues follow that model.
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On October 31 2012 05:43 SniXSniPe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 05:41 Bourne wrote:
I know you guys hate WOW. but this kinda reminds me of a WOW guild, your top players are your usual raiding part of the guild, people into pvp are the team players/UMS players. Then the rest are just there to level up and have fun, bronze to masters.
I always think an academy is such a good idea, i love the complexity one, where they get a computer etc and if they win inhouse academy tournaments they can win spots at mlg etc. Even gosuuser got moved to the real complexity team, i like the fostering talent idea.
But i do love your idea of a community representing teams, i love the idea. Imagine a silve/gold/platinum league Teamliquid squad or something like that. But if big teams had small teams for each league or something like that and hosted results on there site it would really improve the competitiveness in each of the league. I guess this would be on the community side to be trusted and put in the work to live up to the teamliquid brand. I dunno, it seems like a good idea just the amount of work makes it seems too much. lolwut As far as I'm aware there are no academies offering something like that, unless you get promoted to the main team.
Yes, sorry your correct.
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On October 31 2012 07:49 Zennith wrote:
Agreed. There's also the question of - how do mid-level teams make the step up? How do they increase their brand and awareness? Is it solely based on results?
That question is truly dependent upon the team owner. If the owner wants to take their team to the next level, they are going to need some sort of capital investment, and even then it will be a big gamble. The only other way would be to somehow create a one in a million team/community that has 'something' that no one else does and is so unique it takes off from the ground up. But those don't happen very often.
I know that may sound ironic coming from me (for those of who don't know I ran SC2Clans.org and really tried to promote independent teams and help them break into the scene), but the one thing I learned from that experience is that it's really hard. And if a situation like the one we have been discussing came to be, it would be even harder for those mid-level teams to grow without a very serious and committed (mentally and financially) owner willing to try to make it work, because let's face it, what great up and coming player wouldn't just join a professional academy if they thought they had a shot of going pro?
On October 31 2012 08:14 bullseyel wrote:
thats where teamleagues come in. Thats also where sponsors and esports must come in to play.
Like i said before, if MLG or ESEA or GSL or NASL had a league JUST FOR academies or amatuer teams, there would be so many people wanting to join because of their own personal ego, being able to be recognized and possibly be noticed by the pro teams.
This, this would be the only shot a mid-level team would have of breaking into the scene. Honestly I have no idea why more well known leagues haven't created a space for the amateur level (w/ the exception of ESEA and IPL, but those still are aimed at rather high level talent). And you can argue that the money isn't there and no one would care or pay attention and therefore it would make no money, but I don't buy it. There is no need to have a major production (or any) for amateur leagues, it just needs a structure and to be held by a major brand.
Just look at sites like z33k.com and Playhem. They work because there are tournaments there every day for everyone. It's simple, fair and fun and it thrives. Let the community itself worry about setting up casters and streams everything else on their own accord. MLG has the infrastructure in place w/ SC2 Battles but it is LARGELY unused. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but if MLG setup an amateur tournament league spread across all the skill levels I don't see how it couldn't become hugely popular and actually be successful in bringing in more users to the site. I mean isn't that what they want?
Who knows? It probably all boils down to the old adage 'what came first the chicken or the egg?' It all sounds great to everyone but no one wants to be the first to take the leap. Which is why I'm saying it starts with the brand name teams. Just create a forum section on your websites and let your fans build it, overseeing it along the way of course, and see where it goes. I think people would be surprised.
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WarEagle; the issue is, that there are many people interested in this; but like I said. If done on any serious level, it actually requires quite a commitment. Some people either cannot afford to put such commitment in or don't want to. From my experience, and that's just my opinion, the Academy teams themselves can't be way too big - as to maintain any reasonable contact and control over the brand & players would become very difficult. Not to mention, that it'd be easy for the players to become unaware of each other, being strangers to one others. vVv Academy has currrently 10 members, and I'd say that is a nice number to have. I'd say 10-12 dedicated players is a nice goal to strive towards. But, you can't just have the players without any sort of organization/motivation. In my opinion, most amateur teams simply fall apart because there's nothing happening, either in the team or outside stimuli (competition, coaching, etc). Have to throw challenges at the players, otherwise, despite of their wish to grow, they may grow lazy and unmotivated.
The Academy team leagues would be awesome. But for that, we actually need some more Academy teams. That is something, which needs to come first, before anything else. If it's worth the time investment; well, I would say it is. It's a growth of this game and this community. Do we have people willing to do this? Well, that's an entirelly different question.
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I think it all comes down to the teams/academies coming together, either forming their own teamleagues... Like having a P2P system for teams that = the prize or donations from said teams/supports/communities.and or Esports, supporting the amateur teams into having leagues of their own. Since there are others, there might not be many but they're there.
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Dude, I would love more team leagues - but again, it does require significant investment. Who is going to be the one to take that chance?
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What kind of investment? Time, money? thats the only factors I can think of. Time, The academies are already committed into doing something like this. If they werent, the academies wouldnt exist. Money, like i said, the communites/Academies/Teams do it themselves. If were lucky, MLG, ESEA, etc put for the prize.
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On October 31 2012 11:51 bullseyel wrote:I think it all comes down to the teams/academies coming together, either forming their own teamleagues... Like having a P2P system for teams that = the prize or donations from said teams/supports/communities.and or Esports, supporting the amateur teams into having leagues of their own. Since there are others, there might not be many but they're there.
We're completely open to any type of collaboration with other aspiring players and teams, it's just about finding a structure that fits all of the organizations models. I like this idea though, it would definitely help with some of the challenges that aspirational organizations tend to face.
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On October 31 2012 12:06 bullseyel wrote:
What kind of investment? Time, money? thats the only factors I can think of. Time, The academies are already committed into doing something like this. If they werent, the academies wouldnt exist. Money, like i said, the communites/Academies/Teams do it themselves. If were lucky, MLG, ESEA, etc put for the prize.
From the hints that I've seen from Sundance and Adam around next Season (ESFI/Forbes Interviews and Twitter), MLG is considering a North American only team league. Definitely not out of the question.
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On October 31 2012 12:07 robzgod wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 12:06 bullseyel wrote:
What kind of investment? Time, money? thats the only factors I can think of. Time, The academies are already committed into doing something like this. If they werent, the academies wouldnt exist. Money, like i said, the communites/Academies/Teams do it themselves. If were lucky, MLG, ESEA, etc put for the prize. From the hints that I've seen from Sundance and Adam around next Season (ESFI/Forbes Interviews and Twitter), MLG is considering a North American only team league. Definitely not out of the question.
But then there comes the question of, are the pro teams going to take over, like they do with ESEA Open team leagues. Or are they going to have two separate team leagues for the pro and amateur?
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On October 31 2012 12:19 bullseyel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 12:07 robzgod wrote:On October 31 2012 12:06 bullseyel wrote:
What kind of investment? Time, money? thats the only factors I can think of. Time, The academies are already committed into doing something like this. If they werent, the academies wouldnt exist. Money, like i said, the communites/Academies/Teams do it themselves. If were lucky, MLG, ESEA, etc put for the prize. From the hints that I've seen from Sundance and Adam around next Season (ESFI/Forbes Interviews and Twitter), MLG is considering a North American only team league. Definitely not out of the question. But then there comes the question of, are the pro teams going to take over, like they do with ESEA Open team leagues. Or are they going to have two separate team leagues for the pro and amateur?
I doubt they'd separate it, but it would be a step in the right direction. Creates more opportunities for amateurs to have break outs.
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But the problem is, IMO, relying on MLG or anyone else. They make money from the top level of players, from the highest level of the scene. To invest in the middle tier, you need someone or something that has a personal stake in it, IMO.
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On October 31 2012 12:19 bullseyel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 12:07 robzgod wrote:On October 31 2012 12:06 bullseyel wrote:
What kind of investment? Time, money? thats the only factors I can think of. Time, The academies are already committed into doing something like this. If they werent, the academies wouldnt exist. Money, like i said, the communites/Academies/Teams do it themselves. If were lucky, MLG, ESEA, etc put for the prize. From the hints that I've seen from Sundance and Adam around next Season (ESFI/Forbes Interviews and Twitter), MLG is considering a North American only team league. Definitely not out of the question. But then there comes the question of, are the pro teams going to take over, like they do with ESEA Open team leagues. Or are they going to have two separate team leagues for the pro and amateur?
and what would be a NA only team league, Quantic fielding theSTC, light fielding SSON, and everyother NA team fielding the massive list of koreans.
and the question is what is amateur? I know IPL tries to define that with their stuff, $1k in live SC2 events... Unfortunately I'm classified as pro lol... So that doesnt help me much when it comes to trying to get my career off the ground in SC2. Ive always laughed at how many notable sc2 pros are considered amateurs by that definition as well, while I'm just like uhhh really?
But even with team leagues, that means I have to find a dedicated decent team as well to actually play with that just plain doesnt get rofl stomped against unknowns or stops showing up =/
But most amateur leagues no one cares... Even playhem dailies have a massive negative stigma around them... Such as everyone seeming to believe that playhem dailies are so easy if your good as there isnt any talent playing them at all... such a big misconception, you have players like tails, crank,terious, mvp, revival, sting, crane, and several other koreans, not to mention the notable foreigners that frequent that...
Even going on the side of my prize money winnings that gets me classified as pro by IPL, All those tournaments, and yet 0 exposure lol. The only people that know me are the people that have dealt with me directly. Sure some teams will comment on a lan win on twitter, or some people will be like gj, But no one really tunes into my stream or offers a spot on even an amateur team, unless I go way out of my way =/ but big teams will sure be happy to take my former teammates lol...
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On October 31 2012 13:47 KiF1rE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 12:19 bullseyel wrote:On October 31 2012 12:07 robzgod wrote:On October 31 2012 12:06 bullseyel wrote:
What kind of investment? Time, money? thats the only factors I can think of. Time, The academies are already committed into doing something like this. If they werent, the academies wouldnt exist. Money, like i said, the communites/Academies/Teams do it themselves. If were lucky, MLG, ESEA, etc put for the prize. From the hints that I've seen from Sundance and Adam around next Season (ESFI/Forbes Interviews and Twitter), MLG is considering a North American only team league. Definitely not out of the question. But then there comes the question of, are the pro teams going to take over, like they do with ESEA Open team leagues. Or are they going to have two separate team leagues for the pro and amateur? and what would be a NA only team league, Quantic fielding theSTC, light fielding SSON, and everyother NA team fielding the massive list of koreans. and the question is what is amateur? I know IPL tries to define that with their stuff, $1k in live SC2 events... Unfortunately I'm classified as pro lol... So that doesnt help me much when it comes to trying to get my career off the ground in SC2. Ive always laughed at how many notable sc2 pros are considered amateurs by that definition as well, while I'm just like uhhh really? But even with team leagues, that means I have to find a dedicated decent team as well to actually play with that just plain doesnt get rofl stomped against unknowns or stops showing up =/ But most amateur leagues no one cares... Even playhem dailies have a massive negative stigma around them... Such as everyone seeming to believe that playhem dailies are so easy if your good as there isnt any talent playing them at all... such a big misconception, you have players like tails, crank,terious, mvp, revival, sting, crane, and several other koreans, not to mention the notable foreigners that frequent that...
Maybe I'm a bad guy, but hell, I run team that's lasted for over a year, making several playoffs and playing in every team league possible. Teams are out there. They just need exposure.
Hell, I've played you on ladder a number of times! 
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I postet something like this on like page 84 of the destiny thread so i'm all for it.
I would love the idea of people (like myself) competing for a spot in the TL-noobsquad or participate in clan war games and so on. Just something to like close the gap between the teams we all follow and love competing in the tourneys and well us noobs on the other end of the skill-scale
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Good thread, but I think a lot of teams already do academies or community groups, they just don't get a lot of attention. A community isn't a community without its members and we need teams that are accessible by everyone. I think a big problem we have is so many people expect to be paid for playing when it just isn't feasible. It is also, in my humble opinion, why we see new teams pop up with decent rosters only to fade away fairly quickly, due to the pressure of contracts they can't afford to maintain.
At any rate, to add to what others have said, my team, NOOB Gaming (No One Owns Better) http://www.noobgaming.org, also has a community group. We do things a bit different tho than most teams with the way our community group operates that I think benefits them. Many of these plans start Nov. 1st as our team is fairly young. We have an 8 member A-Team of Masters and above, a 30 man B-Team of Platinum and above, and then a C-Team which is our community group.
On November 1st, after a successful test month, we start our "Activity Ladder". A-Team members and B-Team members are required to participate and any Gold league C-Team player or above can participate if they wish. C-Team members are not required to participate. If any Masters or above B-Team player outscores an A-Team member at the end of the month they can take that A-Team members position, and the last 10 B-Team positions are also up for grabs by C-Team members who can outscore members of the B-Team. The members earn points by simply playing. We award various points for tournament wins, playing in clan wars, showing up as a sub for clan wars, just participating in tournaments, and even playing fellow members in best of 3's. Attending practices also earns points for the members and they simply claim the points via a submissions form on the site.
What this allows us to do is build a strong team off of members who stick with us overtime. We allow them to be involved by participating in the Ladder at a very low level (Gold) and also play higher level members to earn points, which works for both of them and gives them good experience. Through this they could essentially move from a casual Community Group member to an A or B team position through activity and practice. The system works very well.
At any rate I think it would be good for teams to do stuff like this as it promotes a better community and gets more people involved. Having a community group is essentially a player farm for teams, just like we see in professional sports. It should be no different here.
long live e-sports!
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On November 01 2012 06:24 ExPresident wrote:Good thread, but I think a lot of teams already do academies or community groups, they just don't get a lot of attention. A community isn't a community without its members and we need teams that are accessible by everyone. I think a big problem we have is so many people expect to be paid for playing when it just isn't feasible. It is also, in my humble opinion, why we see new teams pop up with decent rosters only to fade away fairly quickly, due to the pressure of contracts they can't afford to maintain. At any rate, to add to what others have said, my team, NOOB Gaming (No One Owns Better) http://www.noobgaming.org, also has a community group. We do things a bit different tho than most teams with the way our community group operates that I think benefits them. Many of these plans start Nov. 1st as our team is fairly young. We have an 8 member A-Team of Masters and above, a 30 man B-Team of Platinum and above, and then a C-Team which is our community group. On November 1st, after a successful test month, we start our "Activity Ladder". A-Team members and B-Team members are required to participate and any Gold league C-Team player or above can participate if they wish. C-Team members are not required to participate. If any Masters or above B-Team player outscores an A-Team member at the end of the month they can take that A-Team members position, and the last 10 B-Team positions are also up for grabs by C-Team members who can outscore members of the B-Team. The members earn points by simply playing. We award various points for tournament wins, playing in clan wars, showing up as a sub for clan wars, just participating in tournaments, and even playing fellow members in best of 3's. Attending practices also earns points for the members and they simply claim the points via a submissions form on the site. What this allows us to do is build a strong team off of members who stick with us overtime. We allow them to be involved by participating in the Ladder at a very low level (Gold) and also play higher level members to earn points, which works for both of them and gives them good experience. Through this they could essentially move from a casual Community Group member to an A or B team position through activity and practice. The system works very well. At any rate I think it would be good for teams to do stuff like this as it promotes a better community and gets more people involved. Having a community group is essentially a player farm for teams, just like we see in professional sports. It should be no different here. long live e-sports!
I checked out a lot of teams websites and for the most part the majority of the professional teams don't have active communities. Some of them have academies, but they are very serious, high level B-Teams (and I think most pro teams should have serious academies like these). Others had community forums for the fans, but are largely unused. Very, very few had both. Yes I did find teams that have these qualities we've talked about but not really among the brand name professional teams.
The system your team has pretty much describes to a 'T' what I think all pro teams should have. I can't even think of anything to add to it at the moment.
Speaking towards some of the earlier posts, regarding official academies being a big commitment, needing to be taken seriously, shouldn't be too big, etc., I agree with all that. The point I had originally tried to make is that I think pro teams should have both the serious academies, as well as a fan driven community much like the one described above. If you want to look at it a different way you could even call them official fan clubs. Bottom line is I think you would find tons of players who would be chomping at the bits to be a part of the official Team Liquid Community B-Team, the SEED Gaming A-Team, or whoever their favorite teams are and the systems those communities choose to create.
I also think I saw someone mention teams not wanting to be officiated with a community that could possibly make them look bad, hurt their image with sponsors, etc. I don't really believe that. I mean Team Liquid already has the largest SC2 community and therefore already practically houses practically every BM person that exists in the social Starcraft stratosphere and you don't see it hurting their image. A simple 'the actions and views of our Official Community/Fan Club members is in no way affiliated with the Official Team' agreement upon signing up for the community would cover all the bases for teams and their sponsors.
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On November 01 2012 07:06 WarEagle wrote:
I also think I saw someone mention teams not wanting to be officiated with a community that could possibly make them look bad, hurt their image with sponsors, etc. I don't really believe that. I mean Team Liquid already has the largest SC2 community and therefore already practically houses practically every BM person that exists in the social Starcraft stratosphere and you don't see it hurting their image. A simple 'the actions and views of our Official Community/Fan Club members is in no way affiliated with the Official Team' agreement upon signing up for the community would cover all the bases for teams and their sponsors.
I think you mistook that post... TL is a different type of community. Everyone in this community doesnt go around representing liquid as an amateur with liquid tags. I wasn't talking forums like this more of academy type stuff, that is open registration.
Basically this thread has been split into two discussions on the same topic, 1 Revolving around pro team related academies, and 2 community stuff to just be a part of it but not be overly serious. Pro and Casual. While some teams do have casual communities not many are active, and not many have the pro academy side either.
From a competitive player thats been in competitive gaming for almost 20 years now, its just disappointing that there isn't an easier step to go pro or even get the smallest help. As far as im aware the only "true" academy is with complexity but they are restricted on who they let in, and havent ran a recruitment tournament in forever. Sure FXO started their community/academy, But I just seem lost on that from a professional perspective, What if I dedicate myself to their program? Will I get a contract, team house, practice partners and the ability to truly make it? as I just dont see that. I see a NA roster with a few former teammates and a team that never wanted me in the first place when they took one of our players on my former team and then soon after we got picked apart by several teams, and I was the one left teamless and naturally bitter. The bitterness I regret but its all business I guess, Its not going to change my 8 hour a day practice schedule that im already on, its not going to stop me from winning every local lan I attend, and its not going to stop me from attending atleast 2 MLG's next year. But it sure would be nice to feel like im just not spinning my wheels and going in circles day in and day out. Which is why I feel a serious academy team like the col academy is such a serious part of esports that we need to see more of, And be more open so the professional scene can grow as a whole. A team like that gives purpose and a goal and a way to truly achieve your dreams.
From the casual side, thats the part I never truly understood. As im not a casual and never have been, so I dont know what thats like at all. I honestly dont know the value from a casual wanting to be a direct part of a community from either perspective the team or the person. I honestly would love to hear a well thought explanation from someone on that. I do know its more of a direct way for a fanbase to connect, but thats about it.
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From the casual side, thats the part I never truly understood. As im not a casual and never have been, so I dont know what thats like at all. I honestly dont know the value from a casual wanting to be a direct part of a community from either perspective the team or the person. I honestly would love to hear a well thought explanation from someone on that. I do know its more of a direct way for a fanbase to connect, but thats about it.
For a casual, the social aspect of the game is probably just as important as the game itself. Belonging to a community give things to look forward to (inhouse tourney, clan wars or just chat channels in general etc), and since B.net 0.2 is designed make players feel as isolated as possible, the appeal of belonging in a community becomes stronger. As a non-casual, you would probably feel that the time not spending to improve is a waste of time but for casual, these social aspects give us the motivation to continue playing and hopefully improve.
From the team point of view, my guess is that more traffic = more exposure, which might = attract potential sponsors.
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On November 01 2012 09:41 alarm921 wrote:Show nested quote +From the casual side, thats the part I never truly understood. As im not a casual and never have been, so I dont know what thats like at all. I honestly dont know the value from a casual wanting to be a direct part of a community from either perspective the team or the person. I honestly would love to hear a well thought explanation from someone on that. I do know its more of a direct way for a fanbase to connect, but thats about it. For a casual, the social aspect of the game is probably just as important as the game itself. Belonging to a community give things to look forward to (inhouse tourney, clan wars or just chat channels in general etc), and since B.net 0.2 is designed make players feel as isolated as possible, the appeal of belonging in a community becomes stronger. As a non-casual, you would probably feel that the time not spending to improve is a waste of time but for casual, these social aspects give us the motivation to continue playing and hopefully improve. From the team point of view, my guess is that more traffic = more exposure, which might = attract potential sponsors.
Exactly everything he said. Good first post.
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As said bevor I still think the main difference is the following:
-a competative player plays to win (for himself)
-a casual player plays to have fun
BUT a casual player can also get competative if you tell him what to fight for. So - at least speaking for myself - I have no real motivation to just get better because for me winning is fun and getting better only means higher leagues and that means harder enemys so when I would start laddering, its probably not gonna make my winrate go up because whenever it does over a long enough time I get promoted and be bad again^^
If I had a Team to fight for it would give me more reason to do actually enjoy the competition because I wouldnt fight alone and for "a good cause"
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We at Team oGaming went down this road with an academy of diamond ranked players hand picked to play in the sc2clans.org clanleague. By seasons end 5 of the 8 players in our academy had progressed to master rank I feel it is vital for the competitive teams to cater for the casual lower skilled players that do not always get the chances in any lime light.
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On November 01 2012 08:14 KiF1rE wrote:
From a competitive player thats been in competitive gaming for almost 20 years now, its just disappointing that there isn't an easier step to go pro or even get the smallest help. As far as im aware the only "true" academy is with complexity but they are restricted on who they let in, and havent ran a recruitment tournament in forever. Sure FXO started their community/academy, But I just seem lost on that from a professional perspective, What if I dedicate myself to their program? Will I get a contract, team house, practice partners and the ability to truly make it? as I just dont see that. I see a NA roster with a few former teammates and a team that never wanted me in the first place when they took one of our players on my former team and then soon after we got picked apart by several teams, and I was the one left teamless and naturally bitter. The bitterness I regret but its all business I guess, Its not going to change my 8 hour a day practice schedule that im already on, its not going to stop me from winning every local lan I attend, and its not going to stop me from attending atleast 2 MLG's next year. But it sure would be nice to feel like im just not spinning my wheels and going in circles day in and day out. Which is why I feel a serious academy team like the col academy is such a serious part of esports that we need to see more of, And be more open so the professional scene can grow as a whole. A team like that gives purpose and a goal and a way to truly achieve your dreams.
We don't seem professional because we want the players to have fun and professionalism should blend with that. Yeah, people can have fun. But we want them to push themselves into new levels. We don't tell them they have to practice for 8 hours a day because we don't need to. They do it themselves. They're motivated enough to push themselves. With a fun environment like that, people will do it themselves without you having to make them. Every time I login, I always see at least a few masters, laddering or practice and its only 2pm EST when practice is 7hrs away.
We are only as serious as you want us to be. If you want to practice for 8+ hours, then do so. We have people who do that and would practice with you. But for the people who are not that serious about being a pro, and just want to improve in the game in general, we have those people too. Who just stick around for the environment and find partners when they want to.
Im sorry for the past and the actions that left you bitter. Im not trying to convince you to join TDS, you will do what you want. But if you do want to come in and practice with my players, you can. Im not stopping you. The Mission for TDS is to help players improve in SC2 in general. If people want to take it seriously, then by all means, do so. We will help anyway we can.
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On November 01 2012 20:17 Freezer_au wrote:We at Team oGaming went down this road with an academy of diamond ranked players hand picked to play in the sc2clans.org clanleague. By seasons end 5 of the 8 players in our academy had progressed to master rank I feel it is vital for the competitive teams to cater for the casual lower skilled players that do not always get the chances in any lime light.
This is a great idea. I'd honestly love to hear a bit more about the logistics of how you guys did this - as we're looking at rolling out something quite similar.
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On November 02 2012 00:46 bullseyel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 08:14 KiF1rE wrote:
From a competitive player thats been in competitive gaming for almost 20 years now, its just disappointing that there isn't an easier step to go pro or even get the smallest help. As far as im aware the only "true" academy is with complexity but they are restricted on who they let in, and havent ran a recruitment tournament in forever. Sure FXO started their community/academy, But I just seem lost on that from a professional perspective, What if I dedicate myself to their program? Will I get a contract, team house, practice partners and the ability to truly make it? as I just dont see that. I see a NA roster with a few former teammates and a team that never wanted me in the first place when they took one of our players on my former team and then soon after we got picked apart by several teams, and I was the one left teamless and naturally bitter. The bitterness I regret but its all business I guess, Its not going to change my 8 hour a day practice schedule that im already on, its not going to stop me from winning every local lan I attend, and its not going to stop me from attending atleast 2 MLG's next year. But it sure would be nice to feel like im just not spinning my wheels and going in circles day in and day out. Which is why I feel a serious academy team like the col academy is such a serious part of esports that we need to see more of, And be more open so the professional scene can grow as a whole. A team like that gives purpose and a goal and a way to truly achieve your dreams.
We don't seem professional because we want the players to have fun and professionalism should blend with that. Yeah, people can have fun. But we want them to push themselves into new levels. We don't tell them they have to practice for 8 hours a day because we don't need to. They do it themselves. They're motivated enough to push themselves. With a fun environment like that, people will do it themselves without you having to make them. Every time I login, I always see at least a few masters, laddering or practice and its only 2pm EST when practice is 7hrs away. We are only as serious as you want us to be. If you want to practice for 8+ hours, then do so. We have people who do that and would practice with you. But for the people who are not that serious about being a pro, and just want to improve in the game in general, we have those people too. Who just stick around for the environment and find partners when they want to. Im sorry for the past and the actions that left you bitter. Im not trying to convince you to join TDS, you will do what you want. But if you do want to come in and practice with my players, you can. Im not stopping you. The Mission for TDS is to help players improve in SC2 in general. If people want to take it seriously, then by all means, do so. We will help anyway we can.
I think he also might be suggesting that the general skill level of TDS is a bit too low for him - and while I don't know the skill level of TDS, I know that Kifire is a very strong player, and I think the frustration he mentions is that there's no real reliable avenue for him to become more known (ala the Complexity Academy) since those that exist haven't had new tryouts/tournaments in ages.
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And yes, while I was the last person to post in this thread (twice, I guess), I had a thought while I was talking about this topic elsewhere.
I feel like, in order to truly improve, the NA (or general foreigner) scene needs a Minor League system, similar to that in many traditional sports. Like Kifire, there are tons of really strong players who find themselves stuck - with no place to develop beyond the mid tier teams that they've grown out of. They may not quite be on the level of the highest pro players yet, but they have significant talent and have shown particularly strong results either on ladder on in tournaments. They may not be winning everything yet, but they know what they're doing and are willing to put in the time.
As was mentioned, the Col Academy is a good example of this - with team tryouts and tournaments, the players then join the minor league team and participate in many team wars, in house tournaments, and serious team practices. They do all of this with the knowledge that if they perform well enough, they can move up to the Major Leagues and become a part of that roster - the rewards are significant - new equipment, exposure, and the chance to potentially make a living as a pro. And this clearly benefits Complexity as well - they have a serious system that helps them find the new up and coming talent, and it helps them develop the NA scene into something that can compete internationally - and hell, they look good for helping esports scene develop.
So the question is - why doesn't this exist for other teams? The Dark Side for Legion/FXO may be great, but it isn't a true minor league pro team. EG doesn't have one, Liquid doesn't have one, Quantic doesn't have one... the question is, why not? There's a lot to be gained, and it feels like (someone could correct me) that the costs aren't all that high. It becomes mostly about how you spend your time. Shit, if each of these teams had these types of minor league teams (again, when I say minor league, I'm still talking about incredibly skilled players) they could even have an actual Minor League Team League. There's a lot of press and publicity and positive feeling to be gained, and so very little to lose.
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EPT
