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On October 23 2012 19:56 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 19:48 frezMki wrote:
Jessica is just a cancer for eSports... She was ALWAYS bitching around when something happend in SlayerS
MMA gogo EG fighting, Boxer is nothing for sc2, he didn't reached anything but destroying his fame of SC:BW
-> Now hes a coach which is probably the best thing he can do in sc2
MMA destroyed SlayerS by being an ignorant kid. Jessica failed to revive the team because her pride was too stronk. Thus you support MMA, diss BoxeR, and call Jessica a cancer... If someone screws with your team, you do your research and do everything in your power to give yourself the advantage. That's what Jessica did, but her style was more to prove the other guy wrong moreso than to prove herself right, which is why she seems like she's bitching. If she did the same things she did before but with a different style, she would have handled each situation pretty much as well as possible.
Wow ... you didnt think that through, did you?
As a manger you never ever let the situation in your team get to the point where players want to leave. This ultimately gives the managers (Jessica and Boxer) the blame and not the players. If things go down the drain in the team, do you expect the "victims" to sit still and keep on being blamed for everything OR do you think its ok to get out and escape such a bad situation? Some of the players just saw the decline of the team before others did (who tried to keep it going) and left earlier.
It is not the last guy who puts a stone on an avalanche before it goes down the hill that is to blame for it all, but rather the ones who piled the first stones on top of the hill ... and this is clearly the management and their neglect.
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I think Boxer was, in fact, very reasonable and calm, despite seeing how badly things went and how his 1 year~ of effort went to waste.
Jessica's pretty bad, but so is Crank. He seemed to be in a very emotional and irrational state of mind. Both of them could not have communicated at all during the call. What I don't understand is why Crank could not have met up with Boxer and sorted it out.
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Starting to actually get a pretty clear picture of how and why things turned out this way for Slayers, you just have to compare what ESF, Jessica and the players said. As usual there is not a one party to blame.
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On October 23 2012 20:31 gamerfan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 20:02 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 19:55 Talin wrote:
It's interesting that according to Jessica, MMA had an opportunity to leave the team "cleanly" (when Ganzi and Taeja left). His stock was still very high at that point that it would be the easiest thing in the world to find a new team that would take him in and pay him more. If the only thing he wanted was to get out, why would he choose to stay? I think he had no intention of leaving at that point as he felt he had an obligation to Jessica and Boxer for all they had done for him. After things escalated to where Boxer was calling him the cancer of the team he wanted out. But: "About this statement, I am very sorry. The slavery contract was the contract between the individuals of the management and me, not between the team and me, so even if I transferred, I had to give a portion of the tournament winnings to Jessica. There was silence for 10 minutes and boxer said ‘we do things our way’ and the conversation ended. The next day, the article regarding relegation came out." That contract is also really dodgy. It seems to be a contract between him and Jessica personally (as his agent of sorts), that really doesn't have anything to do with Slayers or a team in general. Jessica's own description of how the contract works pretty much confirms this as well. Either way, to her credit Jessica did offer a way out of the contract. But the fact that MMA and others chose to stay at that point is not consistent with the image of a manipulating, money-grabbing, team-ditching bastards that Jessica now tries to portray them (and MMA in particular) as. His personality couldn't have changed so abruptly in a few months. It's ironic that the players that actually stuck with the team until everything fell apart are now the scapegoats, even though pretty much every A teamer / talented player Slayers ever had wanted to leave or already left the team. The theory that MMA somehow poisoned all of them and was poisoning the team for almost a year, but still chose to stay on the team himself when he didn't have to (and certainly didn't need to), is simply not believable. Them wanting to stay doesnt mean they was sticking with the team. It could also mean the contracts they were offer from other teams was enough for their greedy asses. So they stay to kill off the team so they can look for a better offer from other teams.
It could mean that, yes, it's just not a very realistic possibility.
Slayers had no sponsors and funding left to speak of, and he was on a contract where he had to give away 20% of his winnings. We don't even know if the players were receiving a monthly salary at all. Implying that MMA couldn't get a (significantly) better offer than that from a good number of teams in early 2012 - when he was still regarded as the best Terran in the world - is absurd.
Moreover, the notion that he stayed on the team with a sole purpose of killing it (!?) while waiting for a better offer? While other (then lesser) Korean players were signing lucrative contracts with foreign teams? That's just ridiculous.
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man I really don't care anymore who to blame for all this bullshit, it's poison to the community... Poor, poor BoxeR. Also good guy Cella 
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On October 23 2012 20:48 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:31 gamerfan wrote:On October 23 2012 20:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 20:02 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 19:55 Talin wrote:
It's interesting that according to Jessica, MMA had an opportunity to leave the team "cleanly" (when Ganzi and Taeja left). His stock was still very high at that point that it would be the easiest thing in the world to find a new team that would take him in and pay him more. If the only thing he wanted was to get out, why would he choose to stay? I think he had no intention of leaving at that point as he felt he had an obligation to Jessica and Boxer for all they had done for him. After things escalated to where Boxer was calling him the cancer of the team he wanted out. But: "About this statement, I am very sorry. The slavery contract was the contract between the individuals of the management and me, not between the team and me, so even if I transferred, I had to give a portion of the tournament winnings to Jessica. There was silence for 10 minutes and boxer said ‘we do things our way’ and the conversation ended. The next day, the article regarding relegation came out." That contract is also really dodgy. It seems to be a contract between him and Jessica personally (as his agent of sorts), that really doesn't have anything to do with Slayers or a team in general. Jessica's own description of how the contract works pretty much confirms this as well. Either way, to her credit Jessica did offer a way out of the contract. But the fact that MMA and others chose to stay at that point is not consistent with the image of a manipulating, money-grabbing, team-ditching bastards that Jessica now tries to portray them (and MMA in particular) as. His personality couldn't have changed so abruptly in a few months. It's ironic that the players that actually stuck with the team until everything fell apart are now the scapegoats, even though pretty much every A teamer / talented player Slayers ever had wanted to leave or already left the team. The theory that MMA somehow poisoned all of them and was poisoning the team for almost a year, but still chose to stay on the team himself when he didn't have to (and certainly didn't need to), is simply not believable. Them wanting to stay doesnt mean they was sticking with the team. It could also mean the contracts they were offer from other teams was enough for their greedy asses. So they stay to kill off the team so they can look for a better offer from other teams. It could mean that, yes, it's just not a very realistic possibility. Slayers had no sponsors and funding left to speak of, and he was on a contract where he had to give away 20% of his winnings. We don't even know if the players were receiving a monthly salary at all. Implying that MMA couldn't get a (significantly) better offer than that from a good number of teams in early 2012 - when he was still regarded as the best Terran in the world - is absurd. Moreover, the notion that he stayed on the team with a sole purpose of killing it (!?) while waiting for a better offer? While other (then lesser) Korean players were signing lucrative contracts with foreign teams? That's just ridiculous.
This. Check and mate.
On October 23 2012 20:47 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:43 Subversive wrote:Q: Is there anything else you wish to say?
A: I am really tired now. The essence is that this is who I am. Even if one is a sworn enemy, I do not abandon him or her if one accepts his or her mistake. I would even forgive him or her. But not like this interview. It only reveals deeper truth. There are still more to be revealed than what was already revealed. I didn't reveal everything and showed only this much because I was afraid that remaining fans will leave the scene when more is revealed. If you have no evidence to back your claims, accept your mistakes and apologize. Then I will forget everything and forgive you. Jessica is pretty damn magnanimous. She even said she'd forgive them despite all the trouble they caused. I really don't know why you are all hating on her. She is handling what is a really tricky situation with dignity and poise. Hats off to her for being the bigger person. I hope she get's another coaching position on another team. I think we should remember her team's successes in the GTSL under her stewardship - not to mention some strong individual performances. TL;Dr - A few bad apples upsetting the cart. Jessica is blameless. Yeah sure. "Say Im right and you are wrong, and i will forgive you" "Btw, there is more to be revealed but im not revealing it... yet." She is a saint!
Lol yeah. I basically think the opposite of everything I said there
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On October 23 2012 20:47 shadymmj wrote:
I think Boxer was, in fact, very reasonable and calm, despite seeing how badly things went and how his 1 year~ of effort went to waste.
Jessica's pretty bad, but so is Crank. He seemed to be in a very emotional and irrational state of mind. Both of them could not have communicated at all during the call. What I don't understand is why Crank could not have met up with Boxer and sorted it out.
Crank says Boxer never contacted him again with an offer to meet up.
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On October 23 2012 20:45 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:31 gamerfan wrote:On October 23 2012 20:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 20:02 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 19:55 Talin wrote:
It's interesting that according to Jessica, MMA had an opportunity to leave the team "cleanly" (when Ganzi and Taeja left). His stock was still very high at that point that it would be the easiest thing in the world to find a new team that would take him in and pay him more. If the only thing he wanted was to get out, why would he choose to stay? I think he had no intention of leaving at that point as he felt he had an obligation to Jessica and Boxer for all they had done for him. After things escalated to where Boxer was calling him the cancer of the team he wanted out. But: "About this statement, I am very sorry. The slavery contract was the contract between the individuals of the management and me, not between the team and me, so even if I transferred, I had to give a portion of the tournament winnings to Jessica. There was silence for 10 minutes and boxer said ‘we do things our way’ and the conversation ended. The next day, the article regarding relegation came out." That contract is also really dodgy. It seems to be a contract between him and Jessica personally (as his agent of sorts), that really doesn't have anything to do with Slayers or a team in general. Jessica's own description of how the contract works pretty much confirms this as well. Either way, to her credit Jessica did offer a way out of the contract. But the fact that MMA and others chose to stay at that point is not consistent with the image of a manipulating, money-grabbing, team-ditching bastards that Jessica now tries to portray them (and MMA in particular) as. His personality couldn't have changed so abruptly in a few months. It's ironic that the players that actually stuck with the team until everything fell apart are now the scapegoats, even though pretty much every A teamer / talented player Slayers ever had wanted to leave or already left the team. The theory that MMA somehow poisoned all of them and was poisoning the team for almost a year, but still chose to stay on the team himself when he didn't have to (and certainly didn't need to), is simply not believable. Them wanting to stay doesnt mean they was sticking with the team. It could also mean the contracts they were offer from other teams was enough for their greedy asses. So they stay to kill off the team so they can look for a better offer from other teams. I don't see how getting yourself into a shitty practice atmosphere and poor results would help get them a better contract than when they were (MMA at least) were coming off good results in early 2012. Also how does killing off your own team help you get a better offer from other teams, especially when you know that KeSPA is moving into SC2 in late 2012?
Getting poor results dont mean shit in the west and that's where they want to go, so KeSPA moving to SC2 doesnt mean shit to them. Western team would pay them even if they sucked just from pass performance, cause they're "big" names. Killing off you team and just blaming it on the manager cause you know everyone in the west would believe you, over her, shouldnt effect his chances of looking for a team.
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Seems like there is quite a lack of communication between management and players. Although the players seemed to keep quiet for a long time when they should have brought shit up earlier for clarification. Everyone seems partly at fault here and it seems ridiculous to paint one side as the sole reason for this collapse. Foreign community seems to like to attack Jessica though hahaha.
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Conclusion is, everything that involves or relates to money has to be managed properly, if not, things will get ugly as like how Slayers turned out to be.
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On October 23 2012 20:50 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:47 shadymmj wrote:
I think Boxer was, in fact, very reasonable and calm, despite seeing how badly things went and how his 1 year~ of effort went to waste.
Jessica's pretty bad, but so is Crank. He seemed to be in a very emotional and irrational state of mind. Both of them could not have communicated at all during the call. What I don't understand is why Crank could not have met up with Boxer and sorted it out. Crank says Boxer never contacted him again with an offer to meet up.
Maybe Boxer underestimated the fury that is Jessica, who he probably had to face after the call to arrange the meeting. The whole thing is just sad.
But does anyone really think Jessica will manage as much as an esports-waterbottle after this?
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I'm so confused I don't understand anything that's happening, Too many versions of the story to know whats true and whats not.
IMO they are trying to pitch slayers drama to a television station.
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On October 23 2012 20:48 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:31 gamerfan wrote:On October 23 2012 20:22 Talin wrote:On October 23 2012 20:02 jworld wrote:On October 23 2012 19:55 Talin wrote:
It's interesting that according to Jessica, MMA had an opportunity to leave the team "cleanly" (when Ganzi and Taeja left). His stock was still very high at that point that it would be the easiest thing in the world to find a new team that would take him in and pay him more. If the only thing he wanted was to get out, why would he choose to stay? I think he had no intention of leaving at that point as he felt he had an obligation to Jessica and Boxer for all they had done for him. After things escalated to where Boxer was calling him the cancer of the team he wanted out. But: "About this statement, I am very sorry. The slavery contract was the contract between the individuals of the management and me, not between the team and me, so even if I transferred, I had to give a portion of the tournament winnings to Jessica. There was silence for 10 minutes and boxer said ‘we do things our way’ and the conversation ended. The next day, the article regarding relegation came out." That contract is also really dodgy. It seems to be a contract between him and Jessica personally (as his agent of sorts), that really doesn't have anything to do with Slayers or a team in general. Jessica's own description of how the contract works pretty much confirms this as well. Either way, to her credit Jessica did offer a way out of the contract. But the fact that MMA and others chose to stay at that point is not consistent with the image of a manipulating, money-grabbing, team-ditching bastards that Jessica now tries to portray them (and MMA in particular) as. His personality couldn't have changed so abruptly in a few months. It's ironic that the players that actually stuck with the team until everything fell apart are now the scapegoats, even though pretty much every A teamer / talented player Slayers ever had wanted to leave or already left the team. The theory that MMA somehow poisoned all of them and was poisoning the team for almost a year, but still chose to stay on the team himself when he didn't have to (and certainly didn't need to), is simply not believable. Them wanting to stay doesnt mean they was sticking with the team. It could also mean the contracts they were offer from other teams was enough for their greedy asses. So they stay to kill off the team so they can look for a better offer from other teams. It could mean that, yes, it's just not a very realistic possibility. Slayers had no sponsors and funding left to speak of, and he was on a contract where he had to give away 20% of his winnings. We don't even know if the players were receiving a monthly salary at all. Implying that MMA couldn't get a (significantly) better offer than that from a good number of teams in early 2012 - when he was still regarded as the best Terran in the world - is absurd. Moreover, the notion that he stayed on the team with a sole purpose of killing it (!?) while waiting for a better offer? While other (then lesser) Korean players were signing lucrative contracts with foreign teams? That's just ridiculous.
what so unbelievable about them wanting to kill off the team, so them have a reason to end their contract and find a better offer from a western team? If they didnt like what the contract says maybe he shouldnt have signed it? He was under contract so him getting better offer doesnt mean shit, the team would have to move him and the team picking him up at the point would have to paid Slayers a transfer fee on top of paying MMA. It better for MMA if he kill off the team and void the contract of the offer he gets would be much higher.
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I'm kinda surprised they released the transcript of the phone call. It makes Jessica look way worse.
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On October 23 2012 20:41 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:38 YyapSsap wrote:
Although Jessica does seem incompetent at managing a "proteam" which isn't far too surprising given her lack of experience but one can get a feeling that she tried her best in "her" way. Whether or not it was the best way is debatable (I think she did a poor job but thats my opinion) but fact is that she did it for the players not for money which is the key point. The kind of support she gave to her players (transports/food/money/accodomation etc looks alot better than a well financially supported KeSPA teams).
But more importantly, I cant believe how spoiled Crank and the rest of the players are. Unbelievably immature.. To put it into perspective, most of there whining is literally along the lines of a kid asking his Father?Mother why they dont play with them during the day time when we all know they are working to feed the family.
You call them spoiled kids but what do you really know about the conditions, their contracts, their salaries, and their working schedules?
Well if you read Korean (think its still being translated?), the interview with Jessica soon after MMA/Cranks annoucements say:
TIG> 최재원은 팀 운영에 대한 이야기도 하고 싶었다고 말했는데.
Crank also wanted to talk about the slayers team management..
김가연: 언제는 팀 분위기가 엉망이라더니 팀 운영이 엉망이라고 말이 바뀌더라. 여의도에서 생활하던 시절 60평대 숙소 월세와 관리비, 식자재, 장보는 비용, 차량 2대 유류비와 보험료, 각종 비품, 생활용품, 한우 회식, 6개월 단위 장학금 제도, GSTL 경기 후 회식 등 매월 엄청난 비용이 지출됐다.
Crank would often say that the team atmosphere was bad which soon turned into team management being bad. When we were at Yeouido Island, we stayed in a 200m^2 house with paid rent/bills + food/gear/transportation/insurance/accessories/expensive team dinners/6 month scholarships/team dinners after which GSTL matches.
이외에 선수들에게 압구정 미용실에서 연예인처럼 50% 할인, 치과 무료 치료(양준식이 3번 이용), 피부과 80% 가격으로 시술(문성원 여러 번 시술) 등 선수들에게도 제공할 수 있는 부분을 신경 썼다.
: On top of that, they were provided with 50% discount off from hairdressers (in Apgujeong) like celebrities + free dental services + 80% off skin treatments (MMA did this alot) etc.
We dont know how much they were getting paid in terms of salary but id think itd be hard to justify one given the circumstances until the team can get a stable financial support from a big sponsor like KeSPA teams.
She also explains that when they needed transportation (or a car to drive ala Crank) she didn't hesitate for a second to let them drive foreign cars that cost over 90,000 USD (probably at her disposal? Im not sure).
Source - http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13439&id=1319756
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On October 23 2012 20:45 Ameisenmann wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:39 dsousa wrote:On October 23 2012 19:49 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:The phone call is now translated! HERE! Wow.... Boxer does not come off well. Its almost like his GF is out to get him. Listen kids, I know its a hard lesson to learn, we all loved Boxer and though he personified something special. But he's a human being like everyone else. He has an ugly side, growing up is realizing that no one is the hero they make themselves out to be. Being the best at SC doesn't make you a great man. This is just getting too ugly. Some of these people need to have their heads checked. They are making Jersey shore look sophisticated. Talk about exaggerating... I don't know what you read there that makes you feel like boxer can't be a great man anymore now and they are even below something like jersey shore (!)...
Its the same crybaby bs we hear from Jessica.....you lied to me .....you lied to me....
Cry cry... whine whine.
The emperor needs to man up. This call...and its transcript are petty.
Even the whole have Jessica do the call, until voices are raised...WTF....
Its amateur hour.
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On October 23 2012 20:50 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:47 shadymmj wrote:
I think Boxer was, in fact, very reasonable and calm, despite seeing how badly things went and how his 1 year~ of effort went to waste.
Jessica's pretty bad, but so is Crank. He seemed to be in a very emotional and irrational state of mind. Both of them could not have communicated at all during the call. What I don't understand is why Crank could not have met up with Boxer and sorted it out. Crank says Boxer never contacted him again with an offer to meet up.
Boxer is not wearing the pants in that house 
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On October 23 2012 20:58 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:45 Ameisenmann wrote:On October 23 2012 20:39 dsousa wrote:On October 23 2012 19:49 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:The phone call is now translated! HERE! Wow.... Boxer does not come off well. Its almost like his GF is out to get him. Listen kids, I know its a hard lesson to learn, we all loved Boxer and though he personified something special. But he's a human being like everyone else. He has an ugly side, growing up is realizing that no one is the hero they make themselves out to be. Being the best at SC doesn't make you a great man. This is just getting too ugly. Some of these people need to have their heads checked. They are making Jersey shore look sophisticated. Talk about exaggerating... I don't know what you read there that makes you feel like boxer can't be a great man anymore now and they are even below something like jersey shore (!)... Its the same crybaby bs we hear from Jessica.....you lied to me .....you lied to me.... Cry cry... whine whine. The emperor needs to man up. This call...and its transcript are petty. Even the whole have Jessica do the call, until voices are raised...WTF.... Its amateur hour.
I think the only cry baby here is the one that's actually crying. He fucking 24yr old, man the fuck up.
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On October 23 2012 20:59 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:50 Subversive wrote:On October 23 2012 20:47 shadymmj wrote:
I think Boxer was, in fact, very reasonable and calm, despite seeing how badly things went and how his 1 year~ of effort went to waste.
Jessica's pretty bad, but so is Crank. He seemed to be in a very emotional and irrational state of mind. Both of them could not have communicated at all during the call. What I don't understand is why Crank could not have met up with Boxer and sorted it out. Crank says Boxer never contacted him again with an offer to meet up. Boxer is not wearing the pants in that house
I'm sure we're suppose to just take Crank's word for it right? when every time Jessica says anything it show me prove or that wasnt the prove I wanted show me something else.
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On October 23 2012 20:59 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 20:50 Subversive wrote:On October 23 2012 20:47 shadymmj wrote:
I think Boxer was, in fact, very reasonable and calm, despite seeing how badly things went and how his 1 year~ of effort went to waste.
Jessica's pretty bad, but so is Crank. He seemed to be in a very emotional and irrational state of mind. Both of them could not have communicated at all during the call. What I don't understand is why Crank could not have met up with Boxer and sorted it out. Crank says Boxer never contacted him again with an offer to meet up. Boxer is not wearing the pants in that house
I think Boxer is practicising self-survival. It was actually probably better he never met up with Crank. It wouldn't have likely fixed anything. I imagine he was hoping this would all go away and to put everything behind him. I could imaginbe MMA and Crank and even Alician and Rying having the same hope (although they probably didn't think twice about it and thought they wouldn't be mentioned). There is one person who wants this drama to play out...
Didn't someone say that Jessica was an actress in Korean dramas? I guess she had to start getting back into practice.
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EPT
