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MMA deserves better. Go to EG or liquid.
Honestly, he did a bit wrong too, like being too pensive and sensitive enough to not confront these communication break downs as they appeared, but I don't really blame him too much--its pretty much how the their culture works half the time.
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On October 23 2012 09:42 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:40 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 Zato-1 wrote:
If MMA and Crank didn't have the courage to confront Jessica about the rumors... then to me, that speaks badly of Jessica as a leader and a manager. To be a good manager, you need to foster an atmosphere of trust and candor; even if sometimes you cannot be 100% transparent with what you're doing, players should never feel afraid to talk to you about something, especially if it's business-related. I get the impression that Jessica was a pretty terrible manager, and living in those conditions, it's not surprising to see this blow up into one big drama.
~Slayers T_T This is the point I have been trying to make!!!! The bullocks is that supposed to mean. More like they were afraid of prosecution if Jessica found out about their own actions. Why are people operating under the assumption that this is a not for profit organization where Jessica has to be nice to everybody? If you don't report something that's your responsibility fucking period. In professional terms, if the employee doesn't report a problem that they think will damage the integrity of the company, WHILE the supervisor is trying to find out what it is and actively prompting them, then they should be held responsible.
Nobody should feel afraid of their employer. Are you saying that it's alright for someone to live in constant fear and mistrust of their superior(s)?
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Australia528 Posts
On October 23 2012 09:43 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:40 storywriter wrote:On October 23 2012 09:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:34 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:33 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:32 Waxangel wrote:On October 23 2012 09:31 storywriter wrote:On October 23 2012 09:27 ThePurist wrote:On October 23 2012 09:25 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:24 ThePurist wrote:
[quote]
Cuz I read it. And this kid is just straight up self-centered, irresponsible, possibly lying to the end, and disrespectful.
GEE GEE.......... Wait, you can read Korean? ...So you can translate this?! Please?!? I was going to attempt for the sake of peeps here. But I am retarded and I realize how much work the translators do here...ㅅㄳㄱ. Trust them with big stuff like this. I read the phone call too and I don't get why Crank is getting all the hate. Jessica seems to think that Crank lied about not joining a foreign team but Crank makes it clear that he was leaving the team because it was going way downhill (he didn't even have a contract). Boxer doesn't seem to share Jessica's view either (he never explicitly says that Crank lied and says something like "you're going to have to deal with all the crap we give you only because you were the first to leave the team"). Also Boxer's comment about Crank being at fault because he didn't handle MMA - seriously? Why the fuck would you leave handling your star player to another player? WTF are managers for? I would say Crank is the scapegoat here. if in effect, Crank did leave SlayerS to join a foreign team (that's what happened, effectively), then you can't really blame Jessica for feeling lied to. I don't understand this though, you can't just join another team then claim you left the team already. He had no contract with Slayers. Whether you have a contract or not shouldn't matter. Morally it's pretty damning, whether he can be held accountable due to contract or not. I would say Jessica and Boxer had a moral obligation to keep the team together and that justifies Crank's actions. Unfortunately, I know 99% of Koreans will not share my view and that Crank will get lynched if he says this. You do realise 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind' would fit quite nicely if you think it justifies Crank's actions.
How is this 'an eye for an eye'? It would have been so if Crank released an interview damning Slayers but that's not what he did. He simply looked out for himself and left a team that was doomed to fail.
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On October 23 2012 09:44 nmetasch wrote:
Can someone post a link to the actual audio of the phone conversation? I can't actually find it anywhere.. But I'd like to listen to it.
I want to hear it real bad.
but its not released in public
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On October 23 2012 09:43 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:42 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:34 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:33 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:32 Waxangel wrote:On October 23 2012 09:31 storywriter wrote:On October 23 2012 09:27 ThePurist wrote:On October 23 2012 09:25 tMomiji wrote:
[quote]
Wait, you can read Korean? ...So you can translate this?! Please?!? I was going to attempt for the sake of peeps here. But I am retarded and I realize how much work the translators do here...ㅅㄳㄱ. Trust them with big stuff like this. I read the phone call too and I don't get why Crank is getting all the hate. Jessica seems to think that Crank lied about not joining a foreign team but Crank makes it clear that he was leaving the team because it was going way downhill (he didn't even have a contract). Boxer doesn't seem to share Jessica's view either (he never explicitly says that Crank lied and says something like "you're going to have to deal with all the crap we give you only because you were the first to leave the team"). Also Boxer's comment about Crank being at fault because he didn't handle MMA - seriously? Why the fuck would you leave handling your star player to another player? WTF are managers for? I would say Crank is the scapegoat here. if in effect, Crank did leave SlayerS to join a foreign team (that's what happened, effectively), then you can't really blame Jessica for feeling lied to. I don't understand this though, you can't just join another team then claim you left the team already. He had no contract with Slayers. Whether you have a contract or not shouldn't matter. Morally it's pretty damning, whether he can be held accountable due to contract or not. Morally, perhaps, but then again everyone has different morals. I think he handled it poorly but shouldn't be treated so hatefully. He wanted out of that horrible environment and was obviously distressed from trying so hard to improve things to no avail. I don't know any culture where lying is morally accepted... Do you? Depends on the reason behind it. Motive is everything. At least to me it is.
And it was solely for selfish reasons. This argument is dumb.
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On October 23 2012 05:37 phoenixfeather95 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 05:17 Waxangel wrote:
TIG: can you tell us of hidden facts regarding the transfer
Mma: afterwards, I was able to find out about the trade negotiations. An incredibly large sum of money was demanded for me even though I had 3 months left on my contract. The talks broke down. This was because of the absurd transfer fee and other inquiries were made to teams that I didn’t even want to go to.
I wonder which team offered this 'incredibly large sum of money' to MMA. EG maybe?
SlayerS demanded a lot of money to keep him in the team, read it again.
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On October 23 2012 09:45 EMIYA wrote:
MMA deserves better. Go to EG or liquid.
Honestly, he did a bit wrong too, like being too pensive and sensitive enough to not confront these communication break downs as they appeared, but I don't really blame him too much--its pretty much how the their culture works half the time.
Refuses to pay his Coach who won him the GSL. Deserves better, good logic.
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On October 23 2012 09:45 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:42 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:40 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 Zato-1 wrote:
If MMA and Crank didn't have the courage to confront Jessica about the rumors... then to me, that speaks badly of Jessica as a leader and a manager. To be a good manager, you need to foster an atmosphere of trust and candor; even if sometimes you cannot be 100% transparent with what you're doing, players should never feel afraid to talk to you about something, especially if it's business-related. I get the impression that Jessica was a pretty terrible manager, and living in those conditions, it's not surprising to see this blow up into one big drama.
~Slayers T_T This is the point I have been trying to make!!!! The bullocks is that supposed to mean. More like they were afraid of prosecution if Jessica found out about their own actions. Why are people operating under the assumption that this is a not for profit organization where Jessica has to be nice to everybody? If you don't report something that's your responsibility fucking period. In professional terms, if the employee doesn't report a problem that they think will damage the integrity of the company, WHILE the supervisor is trying to find out what it is and actively prompting them, then they should be held responsible. Nobody should feel afraid of their employer. Are you saying that it's alright for someone to live in constant fear and mistrust of their superior(s)?
Fear? Was Jessica making threats? The proper thing to do is report it to the legal authorities. How the hell does this constitute as a legitimate excuse. I don't need to like my boss to do my job, even if I personally hated my boss I have a responsibility to finish my job and be professional.
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On October 23 2012 09:46 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:44 nmetasch wrote:
Can someone post a link to the actual audio of the phone conversation? I can't actually find it anywhere.. But I'd like to listen to it. I want to hear it real bad. but its not released in public
I wonder why release it only to a news site and trust them to translate it verbatim... Why not release it to everyone and let them make their own judgments?..
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On October 23 2012 09:43 NovemberstOrm wrote:
No matter how you look at this everything goes back to Slayers having a bad manager/bad training environment/jessica.
If the team was run properly none of this would have happened and everyone would be happy, MMA would probably have a few more GSL's under his belt, Boxer might not have left to coach, and Slayers wouldn't have had to die.
Yeah, she was a good manager when Slayers won GSTL two times. But now, she's terrible.
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On October 23 2012 09:47 Jintoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 05:37 phoenixfeather95 wrote:On October 23 2012 05:17 Waxangel wrote:
TIG: can you tell us of hidden facts regarding the transfer
Mma: afterwards, I was able to find out about the trade negotiations. An incredibly large sum of money was demanded for me even though I had 3 months left on my contract. The talks broke down. This was because of the absurd transfer fee and other inquiries were made to teams that I didn’t even want to go to.
I wonder which team offered this 'incredibly large sum of money' to MMA. EG maybe? SlayerS demanded a lot of money to keep him in the team, read it again.
Yeah this is kinda oddly worded as well.... Basically SlayerS put a price on the remaining months of MMA's contract and that price was in excess of 75k USD ~ later on Jessica offered his contract for free to Liquid but....~
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On October 23 2012 09:43 Proflo wrote:This is a loose translation of JUST the first half from some guy named "bnaM" on reddit Show nested quote +
Loose translation:
Crank(C from now): Can we talk?
Jessica(J from now): Yes
C: I got calls yesterday and today, so I checked Nateon (korean site), and I'm still frustrated at the way you think. Do you really think I left so I can go to foreign team?
J: You wrote it (seems like shes talking about twitter). You said you left because you wanted to rest; yes or no.
C: Noona, look at the convo again. You told me to do whatever I want. I'm 24 and it's not the age to be getting allowance from home to live. It's also not like I'm going to get a lot from foreign team.
J: That wasn't the problem with me, was it?
C: I didn't leave so I can go to foreign team. I had no money since I left so it's why I started looking for foreign team.
J: Lets look at the convo. You said you had no interest in foreign team.
C: That was then.
J: That's why I let you go home when you said you wanted to leave team.
C: (Speaking loudly)Why do you keep bringing up the past?
J: Why are you yelling?
C: Why are you acting like that? You like people being disabled? You want to stop playing and do something else?
J: You did lie to me. To leave, you lied. You say two different things (this is a korean saying hard to translate).
C: What two different things did I say?
J: Crank, you only say stuff that you want.
C: If you're an adult, who do you make a person a disabled (this is a curse word in korean similar to "retard")?
J: You dug your own grave.
C: Then can I do interviews?
J: Do it, I don't care.
C: I still want to resolve this and that's why I called you.
J: Then you shouldn't be talking like that. You're trying to make yourself look good.
C: You too.
J: I'm about to say everything now.
C: Then I guess I'm going to look like the bad guy.
J: I'm only going to say the truth.
C: You're only going to say what you want.
J: I'm not going to lie and only say the truth.
C: That's how I feel. Tell me what did I lie about.
J: You always told me it's not about leaving the team, but it's about leaving the team for money. I always wanted to trust you, but the way you broadcast your message, the way you tried going to foreign teams by chatting, and at least you shouldn't act that way when I cared for you. I treated the cervical disc for you; not me.
C: Why do you speak so confidently when you're the one that made the talk about cervical disc?
J: When did I say it was cervical disc (CD)?
C: You're twisting words like this again? I never said it was CD. I just said my neck hurts, so I was going home. Why exaggerate?
J: I just thought it was because of the way you said it. You keep talking like it's the past, but this has only been 1-2 months ago.
C: I never said it was CD.
J: That's what I heard.
C: You said to say I'm resting because of CD; never said to say that to reporters.
J: I said "I'm going to tell people exactly like this", and you said "Ok".
C: I'm looking at the convo right now and it's not how it went. You said to say "I'm resting because of CD", and I said "OK, I'll take care so there won't be weird rumors going around". Then you said, "There's a new member coming in the team, so I'll just add it to the press release".
J: Yep. I told you to tell people you're resting because of CD. Don't blame me when you didn't understand.
C: (speaking loudly) You're also the one that didn't listen to me, so you're misunderstanding.
J: Who do you think you're yelling at?
C: Then who do you think you're talking like this to?
J: What? "Who do you think" (he talked in an informal way to her)? Wow, I'm flabbergasted.
C: You really want to me quit gaming?
J: I don't care if you quit or not, but as a human, you shouldn't act like that.
Boxer: Speak calmly. Lets meet and talk, and not through the phone.
Starting at 8 minute 50, Boxer gets on the call. Crank starts crying and till the end of the conversation, talks in a crying voice.
This is only the first half. Too lazy for the rest and I'm pretty sure an official translation will come. I also don't know what happened with the cervical disc part, so the translation gets a little iffy.
Once again, ****Loose***** and only the first half, sorry all he posted
Yeah. The content isn't even the important thing here I feel. (thanks a lot for the translation <3) Crank should just have said "This team is falling apart and I want to leave because it makes my life miserable". The main point is the way they're arguing, it's obvious they won't re-conciliate and just want to hurt each other, like they're lovers who break up. (I know they aren't, but it's the same tone.."but you said, no I didn't say that, but yes you did say that, but no, but yes, blahblah we're both 13 years old arguing).
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On October 23 2012 09:47 Mackus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:45 EMIYA wrote:
MMA deserves better. Go to EG or liquid.
Honestly, he did a bit wrong too, like being too pensive and sensitive enough to not confront these communication break downs as they appeared, but I don't really blame him too much--its pretty much how the their culture works half the time. Refuses to pay his Coach who won him the GSL. Deserves better, good logic.
Yet some refuse to believe it.
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On October 23 2012 09:47 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:45 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:42 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:40 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 Zato-1 wrote:
If MMA and Crank didn't have the courage to confront Jessica about the rumors... then to me, that speaks badly of Jessica as a leader and a manager. To be a good manager, you need to foster an atmosphere of trust and candor; even if sometimes you cannot be 100% transparent with what you're doing, players should never feel afraid to talk to you about something, especially if it's business-related. I get the impression that Jessica was a pretty terrible manager, and living in those conditions, it's not surprising to see this blow up into one big drama.
~Slayers T_T This is the point I have been trying to make!!!! The bullocks is that supposed to mean. More like they were afraid of prosecution if Jessica found out about their own actions. Why are people operating under the assumption that this is a not for profit organization where Jessica has to be nice to everybody? If you don't report something that's your responsibility fucking period. In professional terms, if the employee doesn't report a problem that they think will damage the integrity of the company, WHILE the supervisor is trying to find out what it is and actively prompting them, then they should be held responsible. Nobody should feel afraid of their employer. Are you saying that it's alright for someone to live in constant fear and mistrust of their superior(s)? Fear? Was Jessica making threats? The proper thing to do is report it to the legal authorities. How the hell does this constitute as a legitimate excuse. I don't need to like my boss to do my job, even if I personally hated my boss I have a responsibility to finish my job and be professional.
She sure threatened Alicia...so who knows? Purely speculation, but who knows? The point is it was obvious they were afraid to confront her. There was fear. How is that acceptable?
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lol who gives a shit about their petty squabbels. Kids in their early 20s think their female boss is an idiot and she being sneaky sneaky collects her own bag of evidence that she can pick and choose from. What else is new?
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On October 23 2012 09:46 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:43 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:42 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:34 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:33 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:32 Waxangel wrote:On October 23 2012 09:31 storywriter wrote:On October 23 2012 09:27 ThePurist wrote:
[quote]
I was going to attempt for the sake of peeps here. But I am retarded and I realize how much work the translators do here...ㅅㄳㄱ. Trust them with big stuff like this. I read the phone call too and I don't get why Crank is getting all the hate. Jessica seems to think that Crank lied about not joining a foreign team but Crank makes it clear that he was leaving the team because it was going way downhill (he didn't even have a contract). Boxer doesn't seem to share Jessica's view either (he never explicitly says that Crank lied and says something like "you're going to have to deal with all the crap we give you only because you were the first to leave the team"). Also Boxer's comment about Crank being at fault because he didn't handle MMA - seriously? Why the fuck would you leave handling your star player to another player? WTF are managers for? I would say Crank is the scapegoat here. if in effect, Crank did leave SlayerS to join a foreign team (that's what happened, effectively), then you can't really blame Jessica for feeling lied to. I don't understand this though, you can't just join another team then claim you left the team already. He had no contract with Slayers. Whether you have a contract or not shouldn't matter. Morally it's pretty damning, whether he can be held accountable due to contract or not. Morally, perhaps, but then again everyone has different morals. I think he handled it poorly but shouldn't be treated so hatefully. He wanted out of that horrible environment and was obviously distressed from trying so hard to improve things to no avail. I don't know any culture where lying is morally accepted... Do you? Depends on the reason behind it. Motive is everything. At least to me it is. And it was solely for selfish reasons. This argument is dumb.
So...wanting to get away from a bad environment is selfish? Okay...that doesn't really make sense to me, but okay, if that's how you feel.
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On October 23 2012 09:49 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:47 Mackus wrote:On October 23 2012 09:45 EMIYA wrote:
MMA deserves better. Go to EG or liquid.
Honestly, he did a bit wrong too, like being too pensive and sensitive enough to not confront these communication break downs as they appeared, but I don't really blame him too much--its pretty much how the their culture works half the time. Refuses to pay his Coach who won him the GSL. Deserves better, good logic. Yet some refuse to believe it.
It's honestly quite odd how many people would take the word of a guy in his young 20's~ with everything to lose who is providing Zero evidence over the word of a 40 year old woman who has nothing to gain by making these facts up and who has provided evidence at every turn.... Speaks to the demographic i guess, and it's quite unfortunate.
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On October 23 2012 09:49 Jindo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:43 NovemberstOrm wrote:
No matter how you look at this everything goes back to Slayers having a bad manager/bad training environment/jessica.
If the team was run properly none of this would have happened and everyone would be happy, MMA would probably have a few more GSL's under his belt, Boxer might not have left to coach, and Slayers wouldn't have had to die. Yeah, she was a good manager when Slayers won GSTL two times. But now, she's terrible.
THEY won, not her.
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On October 23 2012 09:49 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:47 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:45 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:42 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:40 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 Zato-1 wrote:
If MMA and Crank didn't have the courage to confront Jessica about the rumors... then to me, that speaks badly of Jessica as a leader and a manager. To be a good manager, you need to foster an atmosphere of trust and candor; even if sometimes you cannot be 100% transparent with what you're doing, players should never feel afraid to talk to you about something, especially if it's business-related. I get the impression that Jessica was a pretty terrible manager, and living in those conditions, it's not surprising to see this blow up into one big drama.
~Slayers T_T This is the point I have been trying to make!!!! The bullocks is that supposed to mean. More like they were afraid of prosecution if Jessica found out about their own actions. Why are people operating under the assumption that this is a not for profit organization where Jessica has to be nice to everybody? If you don't report something that's your responsibility fucking period. In professional terms, if the employee doesn't report a problem that they think will damage the integrity of the company, WHILE the supervisor is trying to find out what it is and actively prompting them, then they should be held responsible. Nobody should feel afraid of their employer. Are you saying that it's alright for someone to live in constant fear and mistrust of their superior(s)? Fear? Was Jessica making threats? The proper thing to do is report it to the legal authorities. How the hell does this constitute as a legitimate excuse. I don't need to like my boss to do my job, even if I personally hated my boss I have a responsibility to finish my job and be professional. She sure threatened Alicia...so who knows? Purely speculation, but who knows? The point is it was obvious they were afraid to confront her. There was fear. How is that acceptable?
Threatened?
Jessica taking legal actions is called a threat?
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On October 23 2012 09:44 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:43 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:40 storywriter wrote:On October 23 2012 09:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:34 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:33 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:32 Waxangel wrote:On October 23 2012 09:31 storywriter wrote:On October 23 2012 09:27 ThePurist wrote:On October 23 2012 09:25 tMomiji wrote:
[quote]
Wait, you can read Korean? ...So you can translate this?! Please?!? I was going to attempt for the sake of peeps here. But I am retarded and I realize how much work the translators do here...ㅅㄳㄱ. Trust them with big stuff like this. I read the phone call too and I don't get why Crank is getting all the hate. Jessica seems to think that Crank lied about not joining a foreign team but Crank makes it clear that he was leaving the team because it was going way downhill (he didn't even have a contract). Boxer doesn't seem to share Jessica's view either (he never explicitly says that Crank lied and says something like "you're going to have to deal with all the crap we give you only because you were the first to leave the team"). Also Boxer's comment about Crank being at fault because he didn't handle MMA - seriously? Why the fuck would you leave handling your star player to another player? WTF are managers for? I would say Crank is the scapegoat here. if in effect, Crank did leave SlayerS to join a foreign team (that's what happened, effectively), then you can't really blame Jessica for feeling lied to. I don't understand this though, you can't just join another team then claim you left the team already. He had no contract with Slayers. Whether you have a contract or not shouldn't matter. Morally it's pretty damning, whether he can be held accountable due to contract or not. I would say Jessica and Boxer had a moral obligation to keep the team together and that justifies Crank's actions. Unfortunately, I know 99% of Koreans will not share my view and that Crank will get lynched if he says this. You do realise 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind' would fit quite nicely if you think it justifies Crank's actions. Considering Jessica's desire to punish everyone, the eye for an eye comment is pretty rich.
I'd rather consider that cutting out the bad in the scene if what she says is true to be honest.
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EPT
