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On October 23 2012 09:43 storywriter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:39 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:36 storywriter wrote:On October 23 2012 09:34 Kazeyonoma wrote:On October 23 2012 09:31 storywriter wrote:On October 23 2012 09:27 ThePurist wrote:On October 23 2012 09:25 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:24 ThePurist wrote:On October 23 2012 09:23 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:23 ThePurist wrote:
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He is fucked. How do you know? Cuz I read it. And this kid is just straight up self-centered, irresponsible, possibly lying to the end, and disrespectful. GEE GEE.......... Wait, you can read Korean? ...So you can translate this?! Please?!? I was going to attempt for the sake of peeps here. But I am retarded and I realize how much work the translators do here...ㅅㄳㄱ. Trust them with big stuff like this. I read the phone call too and I don't get why Crank is getting all the hate. Jessica seems to think that Crank lied about not joining a foreign team but Crank makes it clear that he was leaving the team because it was going way downhill (he didn't even have a contract). Boxer doesn't seem to share Jessica's view either (he never explicitly says that Crank lied and says something like "you're going to have to deal with all the crap we give you only because you were the first to leave the team"). Also Boxer's comment about Crank being at fault because he didn't handle MMA - seriously? Why the fuck would you leave handling your star player to another player? WTF are managers for? I would say Crank is the scapegoat here. Because at the time crank was the co captain? ... fine, you'd leave handling your star player to your 'co captain'? There's no excuse for Jessica and Boxer having neglected the players. You think the manager of Startale is going to be walking around each day and help the players? Actually what about FXO, Choya is handling the affairs there, not some manager. Actually FXOBoSS was even pissed at Choya for being part of the eSF ban. See, Slayers is falling apart. Crank's made it clear something needs to be done. MMA is acting up. Boxer/Jessica: oh let's not do anything -> team falls apart -> shit, it was all Crank's fault. Are you not seeing something is wrong here? Also, Boxer was meant to be a playing 'coach'. The team is called Slayers. MMA is Boxer's son. Crank did nothing wrong regarding MMA, I'd say.
Don't even bother, he's been steadfastly holding to his POV for all 3000000 pages of the last thread. You're not going to change his mind.
I will commend Shival on being perfectly civil the whole time and never reacting badly to anyone baiting him. He's just asked "opposing" questions in a calm tone. If only certain people with certain privileges had behaved the same 
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On October 23 2012 09:49 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:47 Mackus wrote:On October 23 2012 09:45 EMIYA wrote:
MMA deserves better. Go to EG or liquid.
Honestly, he did a bit wrong too, like being too pensive and sensitive enough to not confront these communication break downs as they appeared, but I don't really blame him too much--its pretty much how the their culture works half the time. Refuses to pay his Coach who won him the GSL. Deserves better, good logic. Yet some refuse to believe it.
Because you can't prove it beyond doubt?
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On October 23 2012 09:47 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:45 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:42 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:40 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 Zato-1 wrote:
If MMA and Crank didn't have the courage to confront Jessica about the rumors... then to me, that speaks badly of Jessica as a leader and a manager. To be a good manager, you need to foster an atmosphere of trust and candor; even if sometimes you cannot be 100% transparent with what you're doing, players should never feel afraid to talk to you about something, especially if it's business-related. I get the impression that Jessica was a pretty terrible manager, and living in those conditions, it's not surprising to see this blow up into one big drama.
~Slayers T_T This is the point I have been trying to make!!!! The bullocks is that supposed to mean. More like they were afraid of prosecution if Jessica found out about their own actions. Why are people operating under the assumption that this is a not for profit organization where Jessica has to be nice to everybody? If you don't report something that's your responsibility fucking period. In professional terms, if the employee doesn't report a problem that they think will damage the integrity of the company, WHILE the supervisor is trying to find out what it is and actively prompting them, then they should be held responsible. Nobody should feel afraid of their employer. Are you saying that it's alright for someone to live in constant fear and mistrust of their superior(s)? Fear? Was Jessica making threats? The proper thing to do is report it to the legal authorities. How the hell does this constitute as a legitimate excuse. I don't need to like my boss to do my job, even if I personally hated my boss I have a responsibility to finish my job and be professional.
Following this logic, then Jessica had failed in her duties as a manager. It is the job of management to proactively take care of your direct reports. While her mind was in the right mindset, she did not possess the communication nor management skills to properly pull it off and she seems to be blaming everyone else for her short comings. For her to be making some piss-poor decisions of how to run the team and its image (and we're not talking the major stuff, but a lot of the crap she puts out on the minor scale like community flame wars is just a sign of a bad leader), it's really no wonder why MMA didn't want to deal with management.
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Keep in mind that Jessica is older than BoxeR, and Crank is only 24yrs old.
Jessica used to be in the entertainment industry. She worked with all sorts of people.
Looking at this from that perspective, I'm feeling like Crank shouldn't talk like that to her and at least apologize for yelling at her.
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On October 23 2012 09:51 Jimz1469 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:49 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 09:43 NovemberstOrm wrote:
No matter how you look at this everything goes back to Slayers having a bad manager/bad training environment/jessica.
If the team was run properly none of this would have happened and everyone would be happy, MMA would probably have a few more GSL's under his belt, Boxer might not have left to coach, and Slayers wouldn't have had to die. Yeah, she was a good manager when Slayers won GSTL two times. But now, she's terrible. THEY won, not her.
So when they do well, it's all the players, but when things go badly, it's all the manager?
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On October 23 2012 09:49 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:47 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:45 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:42 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:40 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 Zato-1 wrote:
If MMA and Crank didn't have the courage to confront Jessica about the rumors... then to me, that speaks badly of Jessica as a leader and a manager. To be a good manager, you need to foster an atmosphere of trust and candor; even if sometimes you cannot be 100% transparent with what you're doing, players should never feel afraid to talk to you about something, especially if it's business-related. I get the impression that Jessica was a pretty terrible manager, and living in those conditions, it's not surprising to see this blow up into one big drama.
~Slayers T_T This is the point I have been trying to make!!!! The bullocks is that supposed to mean. More like they were afraid of prosecution if Jessica found out about their own actions. Why are people operating under the assumption that this is a not for profit organization where Jessica has to be nice to everybody? If you don't report something that's your responsibility fucking period. In professional terms, if the employee doesn't report a problem that they think will damage the integrity of the company, WHILE the supervisor is trying to find out what it is and actively prompting them, then they should be held responsible. Nobody should feel afraid of their employer. Are you saying that it's alright for someone to live in constant fear and mistrust of their superior(s)? Fear? Was Jessica making threats? The proper thing to do is report it to the legal authorities. How the hell does this constitute as a legitimate excuse. I don't need to like my boss to do my job, even if I personally hated my boss I have a responsibility to finish my job and be professional. She sure threatened Alicia...so who knows? Purely speculation, but who knows? The point is it was obvious they were afraid to confront her. There was fear. How is that acceptable?
On the one hand they were perfectly okay with abusing SlayerS' trust of them and pretend they had no legal obligation since they aren't on contract. Then you tell me they were too afraid to confront their superior? And this is clearly not the case because of how they acted.
Again, why is it even a legitimate excuse? Report it to the authorities if there's threats. This is the equivalent of a kid saying "I'm scared of my teacher" and refusing to go to school, with no legitimate claims to back up why, no attempts to talk to the authorities, and no regard for what he is supposed to be doing. Childish.
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On October 23 2012 09:49 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:47 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:45 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:42 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:40 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 Zato-1 wrote:
If MMA and Crank didn't have the courage to confront Jessica about the rumors... then to me, that speaks badly of Jessica as a leader and a manager. To be a good manager, you need to foster an atmosphere of trust and candor; even if sometimes you cannot be 100% transparent with what you're doing, players should never feel afraid to talk to you about something, especially if it's business-related. I get the impression that Jessica was a pretty terrible manager, and living in those conditions, it's not surprising to see this blow up into one big drama.
~Slayers T_T This is the point I have been trying to make!!!! The bullocks is that supposed to mean. More like they were afraid of prosecution if Jessica found out about their own actions. Why are people operating under the assumption that this is a not for profit organization where Jessica has to be nice to everybody? If you don't report something that's your responsibility fucking period. In professional terms, if the employee doesn't report a problem that they think will damage the integrity of the company, WHILE the supervisor is trying to find out what it is and actively prompting them, then they should be held responsible. Nobody should feel afraid of their employer. Are you saying that it's alright for someone to live in constant fear and mistrust of their superior(s)? Fear? Was Jessica making threats? The proper thing to do is report it to the legal authorities. How the hell does this constitute as a legitimate excuse. I don't need to like my boss to do my job, even if I personally hated my boss I have a responsibility to finish my job and be professional. She sure threatened Alicia...so who knows? Purely speculation, but who knows? The point is it was obvious they were afraid to confront her. There was fear. How is that acceptable?
Whoever that don't fear their bosses are just naive. Unless you are in a union or some sort, the upper management staff can fire you at their will. So it is your job to behave and just do what you are ask for.
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On October 23 2012 09:52 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:49 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:47 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:45 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:42 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:40 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 Zato-1 wrote:
If MMA and Crank didn't have the courage to confront Jessica about the rumors... then to me, that speaks badly of Jessica as a leader and a manager. To be a good manager, you need to foster an atmosphere of trust and candor; even if sometimes you cannot be 100% transparent with what you're doing, players should never feel afraid to talk to you about something, especially if it's business-related. I get the impression that Jessica was a pretty terrible manager, and living in those conditions, it's not surprising to see this blow up into one big drama.
~Slayers T_T This is the point I have been trying to make!!!! The bullocks is that supposed to mean. More like they were afraid of prosecution if Jessica found out about their own actions. Why are people operating under the assumption that this is a not for profit organization where Jessica has to be nice to everybody? If you don't report something that's your responsibility fucking period. In professional terms, if the employee doesn't report a problem that they think will damage the integrity of the company, WHILE the supervisor is trying to find out what it is and actively prompting them, then they should be held responsible. Nobody should feel afraid of their employer. Are you saying that it's alright for someone to live in constant fear and mistrust of their superior(s)? Fear? Was Jessica making threats? The proper thing to do is report it to the legal authorities. How the hell does this constitute as a legitimate excuse. I don't need to like my boss to do my job, even if I personally hated my boss I have a responsibility to finish my job and be professional. She sure threatened Alicia...so who knows? Purely speculation, but who knows? The point is it was obvious they were afraid to confront her. There was fear. How is that acceptable? Threatened? Jessica taking legal actions is called a threat?
No it wasn't the legal action; there was something she said about revealing it...let me find it...
Here it is. In her response to Alicia's interview:
"You need to stop lying.
Before what you really did wrong comes to light...."
^ That sounds like a threat to me.
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On October 23 2012 09:51 Jimz1469 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:49 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 09:43 NovemberstOrm wrote:
No matter how you look at this everything goes back to Slayers having a bad manager/bad training environment/jessica.
If the team was run properly none of this would have happened and everyone would be happy, MMA would probably have a few more GSL's under his belt, Boxer might not have left to coach, and Slayers wouldn't have had to die. Yeah, she was a good manager when Slayers won GSTL two times. But now, she's terrible. THEY won, not her.
Good logic there. Team falls, her responsibility. Team wins GSTL, team's responsibility.
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On October 23 2012 09:51 Jimz1469 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:49 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 09:43 NovemberstOrm wrote:
No matter how you look at this everything goes back to Slayers having a bad manager/bad training environment/jessica.
If the team was run properly none of this would have happened and everyone would be happy, MMA would probably have a few more GSL's under his belt, Boxer might not have left to coach, and Slayers wouldn't have had to die. Yeah, she was a good manager when Slayers won GSTL two times. But now, she's terrible. THEY won, not her.
THEY ruined the team, not her.
WTF like srsly? if things go good. "FUCK YES THE PLAYERS ARE SO AWESOME"
things go bad "LOL JESSICA SUCH A BAD MANAGER".
people really should stop defending players just because they are the players. it doesn't matter right now if you still want them to play.
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On October 23 2012 09:53 vpatrickd wrote:
Keep in mind that Jessica is older than BoxeR, and Crank is only 24yrs old.
Jessica used to be in the entertainment industry. She worked with all sorts of people.
Looking at this from that perspective, I'm feeling like Crank shouldn't talk like that to her and at least apologize for yelling at her.
Yeah, not everyone here on TL realizes how taboo that kind of disrespect is in Korea.
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Seems to me that cultural differences explain a lot of the reactions to this drama. In the west the buck stops at the top, if an organization fails the CEO/manager takes responsibility.
What they don't do is scapegoat employees that left the organization months ago. There are disputes along the way with any group of people, airing all this at the end is a poor reflection on management. More so in this case as management are adults and their employees are mostly minors and young adults.
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On October 23 2012 09:53 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:49 mongmong wrote:On October 23 2012 09:47 Mackus wrote:On October 23 2012 09:45 EMIYA wrote:
MMA deserves better. Go to EG or liquid.
Honestly, he did a bit wrong too, like being too pensive and sensitive enough to not confront these communication break downs as they appeared, but I don't really blame him too much--its pretty much how the their culture works half the time. Refuses to pay his Coach who won him the GSL. Deserves better, good logic. Yet some refuse to believe it. Because you can't prove it beyond doubt?
Well, If Jessica is lying about it, shes being very creative cuz it seems very "detailed"
Giving graphics card to the coach instead of monetary compensation.
hmm...
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On October 23 2012 09:53 Neo7 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:47 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:45 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:42 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:40 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 Zato-1 wrote:
If MMA and Crank didn't have the courage to confront Jessica about the rumors... then to me, that speaks badly of Jessica as a leader and a manager. To be a good manager, you need to foster an atmosphere of trust and candor; even if sometimes you cannot be 100% transparent with what you're doing, players should never feel afraid to talk to you about something, especially if it's business-related. I get the impression that Jessica was a pretty terrible manager, and living in those conditions, it's not surprising to see this blow up into one big drama.
~Slayers T_T This is the point I have been trying to make!!!! The bullocks is that supposed to mean. More like they were afraid of prosecution if Jessica found out about their own actions. Why are people operating under the assumption that this is a not for profit organization where Jessica has to be nice to everybody? If you don't report something that's your responsibility fucking period. In professional terms, if the employee doesn't report a problem that they think will damage the integrity of the company, WHILE the supervisor is trying to find out what it is and actively prompting them, then they should be held responsible. Nobody should feel afraid of their employer. Are you saying that it's alright for someone to live in constant fear and mistrust of their superior(s)? Fear? Was Jessica making threats? The proper thing to do is report it to the legal authorities. How the hell does this constitute as a legitimate excuse. I don't need to like my boss to do my job, even if I personally hated my boss I have a responsibility to finish my job and be professional. Following this logic, then Jessica had failed in her duties as a manager. It is the job of management to proactively take care of your direct reports. While her mind was in the right mindset, she did not possess the communication nor management skills to properly pull it off and she seems to be blaming everyone else for her short comings. For her to be making some piss-poor decisions of how to run the team and its image, it's really no wonder why MMA didn't want to deal with management.
Or it's just an excuse because no professional is "afraid" to report anything to defend their rights. Seriously? These people are being paid to do a job. There's no legal authority over this? If Jessica was so bad then leave the team proper or report it to authorities. And again apparently other players on the team didn't have this problem, don't pretend Alicia / Crank / MMA were the only Slayers members period.
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On the subject of the conversation, the part where Crank and Jessica talk about who said it was CD that was the supposed reason for his absence, Jessica comes off as bullying to me. And telling him she is about 'to say everything now'. Fairly threatening. I'm glad I never have to work under her. She seems like a bully to me. Unless MMA and Crank are just lying their heads off. But then there's Alicia and Ryung too...
On October 23 2012 09:52 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:44 Subversive wrote:On October 23 2012 09:43 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:40 storywriter wrote:On October 23 2012 09:36 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 09:34 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:33 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:32 Waxangel wrote:On October 23 2012 09:31 storywriter wrote:On October 23 2012 09:27 ThePurist wrote:
[quote]
I was going to attempt for the sake of peeps here. But I am retarded and I realize how much work the translators do here...ㅅㄳㄱ. Trust them with big stuff like this. I read the phone call too and I don't get why Crank is getting all the hate. Jessica seems to think that Crank lied about not joining a foreign team but Crank makes it clear that he was leaving the team because it was going way downhill (he didn't even have a contract). Boxer doesn't seem to share Jessica's view either (he never explicitly says that Crank lied and says something like "you're going to have to deal with all the crap we give you only because you were the first to leave the team"). Also Boxer's comment about Crank being at fault because he didn't handle MMA - seriously? Why the fuck would you leave handling your star player to another player? WTF are managers for? I would say Crank is the scapegoat here. if in effect, Crank did leave SlayerS to join a foreign team (that's what happened, effectively), then you can't really blame Jessica for feeling lied to. I don't understand this though, you can't just join another team then claim you left the team already. He had no contract with Slayers. Whether you have a contract or not shouldn't matter. Morally it's pretty damning, whether he can be held accountable due to contract or not. I would say Jessica and Boxer had a moral obligation to keep the team together and that justifies Crank's actions. Unfortunately, I know 99% of Koreans will not share my view and that Crank will get lynched if he says this. You do realise 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind' would fit quite nicely if you think it justifies Crank's actions. Considering Jessica's desire to punish everyone, the eye for an eye comment is pretty rich. I'd rather consider that cutting out the bad in the scene if what she says is true to be honest.
If you think someone has wronged you, and you attempt to wrong them in return, then you are describing the eye for an eye metaphor. Rightly or wrongly Jessica is doing just that.
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On October 23 2012 09:54 Proflo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:53 vpatrickd wrote:
Keep in mind that Jessica is older than BoxeR, and Crank is only 24yrs old.
Jessica used to be in the entertainment industry. She worked with all sorts of people.
Looking at this from that perspective, I'm feeling like Crank shouldn't talk like that to her and at least apologize for yelling at her. Yeah, not everyone here on TL realizes how taboo that kind of disrespect is in Korea.
Disrespect = suicide lol
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On October 23 2012 09:53 vpatrickd wrote:
Keep in mind that Jessica is older than BoxeR, and Crank is only 24yrs old.
Im getting so tired of this "only 24 years old".. Is Korea kinda a huge kindergarden for kids under 30 years? Other people have a steady job, two cars and two kids at age 24.
Only 24 years old, yeah. Nice excuse for being a manchild.
Edit: meaning, that he should act like 24 (you know, pretty much an adult), knowing his place. Not acting like a child.
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On October 23 2012 09:54 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:51 Jimz1469 wrote:On October 23 2012 09:49 Jindo wrote:On October 23 2012 09:43 NovemberstOrm wrote:
No matter how you look at this everything goes back to Slayers having a bad manager/bad training environment/jessica.
If the team was run properly none of this would have happened and everyone would be happy, MMA would probably have a few more GSL's under his belt, Boxer might not have left to coach, and Slayers wouldn't have had to die. Yeah, she was a good manager when Slayers won GSTL two times. But now, she's terrible. THEY won, not her. THEY ruined the team, not her. WTF like srsly? if things go good. "FUCK YES THE PLAYERS ARE SO AWESOME" things go bad "LOL JESSICA SUCH A BAD MANAGER". people really should stop defending players just because they are the players. it doesn't matter right now if you still want them to play.
hahaha exactly.
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On October 23 2012 09:53 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:49 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:47 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:45 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:42 Caihead wrote:On October 23 2012 09:40 tMomiji wrote:On October 23 2012 09:38 Zato-1 wrote:
If MMA and Crank didn't have the courage to confront Jessica about the rumors... then to me, that speaks badly of Jessica as a leader and a manager. To be a good manager, you need to foster an atmosphere of trust and candor; even if sometimes you cannot be 100% transparent with what you're doing, players should never feel afraid to talk to you about something, especially if it's business-related. I get the impression that Jessica was a pretty terrible manager, and living in those conditions, it's not surprising to see this blow up into one big drama.
~Slayers T_T This is the point I have been trying to make!!!! The bullocks is that supposed to mean. More like they were afraid of prosecution if Jessica found out about their own actions. Why are people operating under the assumption that this is a not for profit organization where Jessica has to be nice to everybody? If you don't report something that's your responsibility fucking period. In professional terms, if the employee doesn't report a problem that they think will damage the integrity of the company, WHILE the supervisor is trying to find out what it is and actively prompting them, then they should be held responsible. Nobody should feel afraid of their employer. Are you saying that it's alright for someone to live in constant fear and mistrust of their superior(s)? Fear? Was Jessica making threats? The proper thing to do is report it to the legal authorities. How the hell does this constitute as a legitimate excuse. I don't need to like my boss to do my job, even if I personally hated my boss I have a responsibility to finish my job and be professional. She sure threatened Alicia...so who knows? Purely speculation, but who knows? The point is it was obvious they were afraid to confront her. There was fear. How is that acceptable? On the one hand they were perfectly okay with abusing SlayerS' trust of them and pretend they had no legal obligation since they aren't on contract. Then you tell me they were too afraid to confront their superior? And this is clearly not the case because of how they acted. Again, why is it even a legitimate excuse? Report it to the authorities if there's threats. This is the equivalent of a kid saying "I'm scared of my teacher" and refusing to go to school, with no legitimate claims to back up why, no attempts to talk to the authorities, and no regard for what he is supposed to be doing. Childish.
I never said they handled it well.
But finding the reason and motive behind actions can explain a lot.
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EPT
