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Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans. |
On October 22 2012 00:45 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:43 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:38 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:30 lilsusie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:25 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:23 lilsusie wrote:On October 21 2012 23:46 farnham wrote:On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote:
So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely. the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt. it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what? he needs to be specific also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights. Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer? Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either. What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him. I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up. "Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2." Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time. It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them. I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed? I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her. Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her. Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there. And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team. What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation.
Crank is simply stating his version of the story. I'm sorry, for how good BoxeR has been for the scene he's also merely human. He does make mistakes as well. That being said we don't know for sure if Crank is telling the truth 100%.
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This whole Crank vs Jessica drama seems a bit silly. So what if Crank yelled at her or left the team in bad terms. Why does it matter? Is this all just because he didn't show proper respect towards his elders?
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On October 22 2012 00:52 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:49 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:45 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 00:43 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:38 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:30 lilsusie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:25 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:23 lilsusie wrote:On October 21 2012 23:46 farnham wrote:On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote:
So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely. the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt. it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what? he needs to be specific also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights. Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer? Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either. What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him. I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up. "Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2." Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time. It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them. I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed? I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her. Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her. Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there. And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team. What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation. Thats not evidence, that hear say. Evidence is objective, everything so far have been subjective accounts of the situation. Crank and Jessica are subjetive and as such their accounts can't be taken as imperial evidence. Hell, no testermony should ever be taken as 100% correct. Also, Crank shouldn't prove his innocent, Jessica should prove his guilt, Err... no. Stuff like circumstantial evidence, certain forms of hearsay evidence, and even eyewitness evidence aren't objective, but can be admitted as evidence nevertheless. What Xiphos was trying to establish was that Crank made certain accusations of Boxer, which was directly quoted by TB, there's no reason for Crank to lie about such things.
None of that proves that Crank in full volition tried to sabotage Jessica. Innocent until proven guilty.
Isn't that what this is about? We can find faults in what TB said, sure, but that doesn't prove that he did what she said he did.
God I hate politics.
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On October 22 2012 00:54 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:11 Shival wrote:On October 21 2012 22:08 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On October 21 2012 22:04 McDrizzle wrote:On October 21 2012 21:46 DrakeFZX3 wrote:
It's no wonder SlayerS collapsed. How can any player play in an environment where every conversation is being recorded, nothing spoken to management is confidential, and there's always a sense of fear if anyone ever spoke up about anything?
While Jessica has all the "evidence," she sounds incredibly manipulative and unable to blame herself for some of the team's failings. What about the players who left on good terms they do not seem to be getting killed right now... Yes, there are some things that should remain private (ie slave contract) but some players choose not to express their opinions. IE Dragon said he wanted to retire from pro-gaming so he left but then joins Millennium a month or two later and Crank well I dont know the full story of it just Jessica's side. The evidence is used when the players or person wants to be a phony and not own up to what they have done, so the better question for you is that will people accused are unable to blame themselves for their parts played? I think the worst part about all this is the announcement of SlayerS disbanding with Jessica airing out all the dirty laundry. Literally a list of people she throws all under the bus. Rather than leave gracefully, it's become a sideshow full of drama and she plays the blame game masterfully with all fingers pointing at everyone but herself. I like TB's quote where he mentions when a team fails "one must look at the top rather than the bottom." You're saying that it should be kept in the dark? For those that use underhanded methods, or lie and insult, to continue their practice unhindered? I think the quote "You reap what you sow" fits quite nicely. As to the TB quote, lets say that Jessica is right for what I'm going to say next. One person cannot simply swim against the current. Regardless of how good a manager is, if enough is being stacked against you, you will fall. There was a reason the current came in the first place. There wouldnt be anything, if things were fine. And while, Jessica didnt like the fact, it didnt change the situation. Players werent feeling well in the current enviroment. According to Crank they asked for changes. I dont defend the players, or their actions, but i can totally understand them. They felt they need to take some sort of action, and they did.
Indeed there was, are you implying the starting point of the current is Jessica?
The players are just as much responsible for the team atmosphere as the coaches and managers are. The coaches may change as much as they want, but in the end the players have to go along for it to truely change.
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On October 22 2012 00:57 herbie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:45 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 00:43 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:38 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:30 lilsusie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:25 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:23 lilsusie wrote:On October 21 2012 23:46 farnham wrote:On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote:
So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely. the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt. it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what? he needs to be specific also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights. Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer? Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either. What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him. I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up. "Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2." Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time. It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them. I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed? I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her. Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her. Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there. And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team. What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation. He is explaining his actions for gods sake.. That is what the whole statement is for, you would rather him not explain why he did what he did or lie about it.
Hey kudos for explaining it. But simultaneously, it is damaging BoxeR reputation. So while he is providing a coherent explanation, he is also foreboding a totally other topic which I argued there.
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3861 Posts
On October 22 2012 00:58 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:54 lilsusie wrote:
From what I know of Jessica is that she is very motherly of her players. I felt this when I've met her and the team at both IPLs now. She is in the right to care for them and feel hurt by their actions as most moms feel from their kids from time to time. The reason I say that she's overly emotional (maybe overbearing would be the better word) is because I feel that sometimes she doesn't take into account that these are grown men she's dealing with, not kids. Yes, she's a good 20 years older than they are but at the same time, they still are 20 something year old players who are trying to make a name for themselves.
From what I know of the players is that they are very good kids, quite respectful and polite. I've talked to/ interviewed/ translated for/ and helped out online these guys so I do actually have a small idea of what kind of people they are. Or at least what they showed me. And from what I've seen, I can only defend them because 1) maybe I'm super naive and 2) because everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Just because I've met them a few times does not make me an expert on these people, I know this. But at least I can say that I've gotten a bit of a glimpse of how they've interacted with one another and how their relationships seemed on the outside and thus, where I draw my conclusions from. I feel that many of you are basing a lot of your responses from mere words written on the internet without accepting that human beings are multifaceted creatures. Just my opinion. No one here is attacking you for your opinion about these players (or at all). And if you believe them, its your thing. But dont judge people who dont. Speaking for myself, i dont know these players, so i just can form my opinion on stuff based what i read. Jessica had some stuff backing up her stories, so overall, im more likely to believe her. That does not mean that i think shes right with everything, but if i were in doubt of a story, i would be more likely to believe her. You know?
I'm not judging. I think someone called me out on the fact that I think that Jessica is picking fights and frankly, I think she is. She reminds me of my mom actually. -_-
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On October 22 2012 01:00 Linoge20 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:52 S_SienZ wrote:On October 22 2012 00:49 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:45 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 00:43 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:38 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:30 lilsusie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:25 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:23 lilsusie wrote:On October 21 2012 23:46 farnham wrote:
[quote]
the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt.
it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested
if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund
he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what?
he needs to be specific
also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything
that could be countered by jessicas evidences He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights. Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer? Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either. What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him. I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up. "Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2." Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time. It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them. I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed? I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her. Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her. Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there. And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team. What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation. Thats not evidence, that hear say. Evidence is objective, everything so far have been subjective accounts of the situation. Crank and Jessica are subjetive and as such their accounts can't be taken as imperial evidence. Hell, no testermony should ever be taken as 100% correct. Also, Crank shouldn't prove his innocent, Jessica should prove his guilt, Err... no. Stuff like circumstantial evidence, certain forms of hearsay evidence, and even eyewitness evidence aren't objective, but can be admitted as evidence nevertheless. What Xiphos was trying to establish was that Crank made certain accusations of Boxer, which was directly quoted by TB, there's no reason for Crank to lie about such things. None of that proves that Crank in full volition tried to sabotage Jessica. Innocent until proven guilty. Isn't that what this is about? We can find faults in what TB said, sure, but that doesn't prove that he did what she said he did. God I hate politics.
No, I did not write Jessica. I wrote BoxeR.
And what would Crank be guilty anyways in the first place.
The point is that by saying that BoxeR don't care about SlayerS, he is effectively ruining someone else' reputation.
On October 22 2012 01:00 Seiniyta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:45 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 00:43 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:38 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:30 lilsusie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:25 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:23 lilsusie wrote:On October 21 2012 23:46 farnham wrote:On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote:
So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely. the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt. it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what? he needs to be specific also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights. Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer? Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either. What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him. I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up. "Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2." Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time. It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them. I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed? I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her. Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her. Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there. And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team. What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation. Crank is simply stating his version of the story. I'm sorry, for how good BoxeR has been for the scene he's also merely human. He does make mistakes as well. That being said we don't know for sure if Crank is telling the truth 100%.
Exactly. Despite of the authenticity in CranK's words, he is still applying the above things I've noted to BoxeR's name, direct or indirectly.
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On October 21 2012 22:00 Conti wrote:I thought it would be interesting to compare Jessica's original statement to Crank's, so that's just what I did: Jessica's statementCrank's statementI also bolded statements that are important or directly contradict each other. Show nested quote +
- The reason why MMA got demoted was not that. I have explained why he was being bullied and mocked and got him comprehended. That's when Crank and MMA hung around alot after that. Crank visited me and complained that the team atmosphere was so bad, he felt pressured and stressed. That's when I asked BoxeR, who at the time was resting to sort out his shoulder problem, to stay in the team house and look after them.
- However, Crank complained once again that talking to the coach and BoxeR's presence did not make any difference and asked me what I actually did. I felt very sorry to him. My player is complaining and all I did didn't help him..
- Crank told me that because his neck is sore, he needed to rest. This was right before GSTL quarter finals. He said as he finished preparing for his game and he can pratise that only. I asked Cella if it's ok for him to go home and Cella told me that he has got his build order prepared for a map so he may go home.
- That weekend, he texted me requesting to be removed from the entry. Because he seemed so ill, I talked to him on messenger to see if he was ok. He didn't answer so I left a message saying 'Rest well physically and mentally peacefully and see you at the stadium'. He then texted Cella 'what is she doing this to me?' .. I don't know what I did
In refuting the first accusation I want to explain I felt for a while that Jessica, Boxer and coach Cella were not taking proper care of the team, in terms of motivation, practice routines, house atmosphere, etcetera. For many months I requested that we receive better care from the management, and although they always said they would, nothing seemed to change. Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2.
- That's when Cella told me that he wanted to quit and is not practising at home. He wanted to quit and rest and he has no intention of moving to another team so he begged me to release him from the contract. I had no intention of holding his back and I agreed that he wanted to rest so I let him go.
That's why I asked to go home [bad atmosphere, etc.], and leave the team, because nothing seemed to change for the better. Regarding this, I've talked to Boxer about it privately, and Boxer said, in that conversation, that he admits, and recognises, his fault. I made it a point to tell him that it was not about the money, or about going to a better team, because I did not want any misunderstandings when I left. But Jessica continually would not recognise her own mistakes, and made me out to be the bad guy who abandoned the team to survive on his own.
- But.. I was told by others that he is streaming and looking for a foreign team. So I asked him why he had to lie and what his unprofessional attitutes are for. I asked him if he knew why MMA wanted to leave the team. He answered 'it's because of me - when I told MMA that I want to move to another team because of the team atmosphere, MMA wanted to join me'. I asked MMA whether it was true and he denied.
Once I left the team , and went back home, I realised how alone I was. I had no team, and was only a Code B player with nothing to brag about. On top of that, I was an old, Korean age 24, player living at home. As a man who has already finished his military service, I could not ask my family for much monetary support. It was a humbling challenge for me to be back there. Because of this, I started streaming, but since my career wasn't that great I only made about one hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand wan a month, which is about the equivalent of one hundred and forty to one hundred and eighty five dollars. That is what prompted me to look for a team that could provide me with a good gaming environment so that I could better myself. It was never my intention to search for a team with lots of money.
- Recently, Crank rang me and screamed 'why are you relating me with Ganzi, Alicia and MMA's problem? do you want to ruin my progamer life?' I lost my words. I knew he wasn't happy with me and the team. But I asked 'Do you know where you are yelling at? I have looked after you and cared for you as the team owner and the manager for years'.. but he yelled back saying 'who do you think you are? where are you yelling at?'. Boxer who was right next to me got the phone off me after listening to him, but then he also yelled at BoxeR saying 'what were you doing during all this?' and then claimed that he will only play SC2 for this year and he just wanted to enjoy the game and that's why he left the team. I have this on recording and I will see what he does in the future.
In response to the second accusation, my response is that during my last phone call with Jessica we got into a screaming match. No matter what I said, she refused to listen, saying 'no matter what you say, I will not listen to you, you are a liar who left the team.' I urged her to resolve this matter over the phone, but her mind was made up. I kept on trying to talk with her, but it was in vain. Then Boxer got on the phone. He explained that, according to him, from the perspective of the team and himself, I was the cause of all the internal issues, including the MMA, Ryung and Alicia ones. I questioned this statement. I asked him 'don't you remember all the times I said let's change things and let's work harder, why do you think I am the cause.' After I reminded him of our past conversations, he finally said that he understood where I was coming from, but from the view of the team, that's just the way it had to be. He said 'I recognise that you tried your best to change things, but there's nothing I can do from the perspective of the team. I also accept responsibility that I did wrong too, but it would have been better if you didn't leave the team on such a bad note. After all this, we can set up a separate meeting and reconcile you and Jessica.' I broke down crying due to frustration. It is true that I had very angry emotions that I couldn't hold back any more regarding Jessica, and it is wrong of me that I fought with, and screamed at, an adult. But when I was on the phone with Boxer, I did not yell. I was crying because I felt really wronged by all of this.
Honestly, a lot of this looks like simple misunderstandings spiraling out of control to me. The two accounts of events are really not all that different. Bad timing and both sides not acting perfectly seemed to have led to lots of avoidable drama, guessing from the information provided. Meh. :/
Why doesn't everybody just read this post (again) and be reasonable: Conti's conclusion is correct. We shouldn't know about this conversation anyway but there you go. Also; It's very unlikely that there is ever gonna be real evidence with stuff like this, even if it's recorded.
On October 22 2012 00:39 lilsusie wrote:
He has chat logs that he had with her before the phone call. He probably doesn't have the recorded phone call. I think this is all hanging on the "형해뭔" statement in the end. Ah, Koreans. (PS. I'm Korean who lives in Korea too. Please don't say that I don't understand culture or whatever.)
I take it you were one of the translators for Cranks statement?
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On October 22 2012 01:01 lilsusie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:58 m4inbrain wrote:On October 22 2012 00:54 lilsusie wrote:
From what I know of Jessica is that she is very motherly of her players. I felt this when I've met her and the team at both IPLs now. She is in the right to care for them and feel hurt by their actions as most moms feel from their kids from time to time. The reason I say that she's overly emotional (maybe overbearing would be the better word) is because I feel that sometimes she doesn't take into account that these are grown men she's dealing with, not kids. Yes, she's a good 20 years older than they are but at the same time, they still are 20 something year old players who are trying to make a name for themselves.
From what I know of the players is that they are very good kids, quite respectful and polite. I've talked to/ interviewed/ translated for/ and helped out online these guys so I do actually have a small idea of what kind of people they are. Or at least what they showed me. And from what I've seen, I can only defend them because 1) maybe I'm super naive and 2) because everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Just because I've met them a few times does not make me an expert on these people, I know this. But at least I can say that I've gotten a bit of a glimpse of how they've interacted with one another and how their relationships seemed on the outside and thus, where I draw my conclusions from. I feel that many of you are basing a lot of your responses from mere words written on the internet without accepting that human beings are multifaceted creatures. Just my opinion. No one here is attacking you for your opinion about these players (or at all). And if you believe them, its your thing. But dont judge people who dont. Speaking for myself, i dont know these players, so i just can form my opinion on stuff based what i read. Jessica had some stuff backing up her stories, so overall, im more likely to believe her. That does not mean that i think shes right with everything, but if i were in doubt of a story, i would be more likely to believe her. You know? I'm not judging. I think someone called me out on the fact that I think that Jessica is picking fights and frankly, I think she is. She reminds me of my mom actually. -_-
Yes, the cheap shot thing. People are quite sensitive in this thread (me included, thats why i jumped the gun when i misunderstood you about "the recording"), so, yeah. She actually does remind me of an "old fashioned" mother. Which is not inherently a bad thing. As a manager maybe, but overall, i dont think so.
Edit: in fact, she reminds me a little bit of these feisty chinese grandmothers in old kung-fu films (especially old Jacky Chan movies). ^^
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I'm not judging. I think someone called me out on the fact that I think that Jessica is picking fights and frankly, I think she is. She reminds me of my mom actually. -_-
I think she just really wants the TRUTH to come out. So any negation or down-playing of what happened from the people involved really pisses her off, prompting her to release even more of these evidences. I don't blame her.
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3861 Posts
On October 22 2012 01:05 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:00 Conti wrote:I thought it would be interesting to compare Jessica's original statement to Crank's, so that's just what I did: Jessica's statementCrank's statementI also bolded statements that are important or directly contradict each other.
- The reason why MMA got demoted was not that. I have explained why he was being bullied and mocked and got him comprehended. That's when Crank and MMA hung around alot after that. Crank visited me and complained that the team atmosphere was so bad, he felt pressured and stressed. That's when I asked BoxeR, who at the time was resting to sort out his shoulder problem, to stay in the team house and look after them.
- However, Crank complained once again that talking to the coach and BoxeR's presence did not make any difference and asked me what I actually did. I felt very sorry to him. My player is complaining and all I did didn't help him..
- Crank told me that because his neck is sore, he needed to rest. This was right before GSTL quarter finals. He said as he finished preparing for his game and he can pratise that only. I asked Cella if it's ok for him to go home and Cella told me that he has got his build order prepared for a map so he may go home.
- That weekend, he texted me requesting to be removed from the entry. Because he seemed so ill, I talked to him on messenger to see if he was ok. He didn't answer so I left a message saying 'Rest well physically and mentally peacefully and see you at the stadium'. He then texted Cella 'what is she doing this to me?' .. I don't know what I did
In refuting the first accusation I want to explain I felt for a while that Jessica, Boxer and coach Cella were not taking proper care of the team, in terms of motivation, practice routines, house atmosphere, etcetera. For many months I requested that we receive better care from the management, and although they always said they would, nothing seemed to change. Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2.
- That's when Cella told me that he wanted to quit and is not practising at home. He wanted to quit and rest and he has no intention of moving to another team so he begged me to release him from the contract. I had no intention of holding his back and I agreed that he wanted to rest so I let him go.
That's why I asked to go home [bad atmosphere, etc.], and leave the team, because nothing seemed to change for the better. Regarding this, I've talked to Boxer about it privately, and Boxer said, in that conversation, that he admits, and recognises, his fault. I made it a point to tell him that it was not about the money, or about going to a better team, because I did not want any misunderstandings when I left. But Jessica continually would not recognise her own mistakes, and made me out to be the bad guy who abandoned the team to survive on his own.
- But.. I was told by others that he is streaming and looking for a foreign team. So I asked him why he had to lie and what his unprofessional attitutes are for. I asked him if he knew why MMA wanted to leave the team. He answered 'it's because of me - when I told MMA that I want to move to another team because of the team atmosphere, MMA wanted to join me'. I asked MMA whether it was true and he denied.
Once I left the team , and went back home, I realised how alone I was. I had no team, and was only a Code B player with nothing to brag about. On top of that, I was an old, Korean age 24, player living at home. As a man who has already finished his military service, I could not ask my family for much monetary support. It was a humbling challenge for me to be back there. Because of this, I started streaming, but since my career wasn't that great I only made about one hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand wan a month, which is about the equivalent of one hundred and forty to one hundred and eighty five dollars. That is what prompted me to look for a team that could provide me with a good gaming environment so that I could better myself. It was never my intention to search for a team with lots of money.
- Recently, Crank rang me and screamed 'why are you relating me with Ganzi, Alicia and MMA's problem? do you want to ruin my progamer life?' I lost my words. I knew he wasn't happy with me and the team. But I asked 'Do you know where you are yelling at? I have looked after you and cared for you as the team owner and the manager for years'.. but he yelled back saying 'who do you think you are? where are you yelling at?'. Boxer who was right next to me got the phone off me after listening to him, but then he also yelled at BoxeR saying 'what were you doing during all this?' and then claimed that he will only play SC2 for this year and he just wanted to enjoy the game and that's why he left the team. I have this on recording and I will see what he does in the future.
In response to the second accusation, my response is that during my last phone call with Jessica we got into a screaming match. No matter what I said, she refused to listen, saying 'no matter what you say, I will not listen to you, you are a liar who left the team.' I urged her to resolve this matter over the phone, but her mind was made up. I kept on trying to talk with her, but it was in vain. Then Boxer got on the phone. He explained that, according to him, from the perspective of the team and himself, I was the cause of all the internal issues, including the MMA, Ryung and Alicia ones. I questioned this statement. I asked him 'don't you remember all the times I said let's change things and let's work harder, why do you think I am the cause.' After I reminded him of our past conversations, he finally said that he understood where I was coming from, but from the view of the team, that's just the way it had to be. He said 'I recognise that you tried your best to change things, but there's nothing I can do from the perspective of the team. I also accept responsibility that I did wrong too, but it would have been better if you didn't leave the team on such a bad note. After all this, we can set up a separate meeting and reconcile you and Jessica.' I broke down crying due to frustration. It is true that I had very angry emotions that I couldn't hold back any more regarding Jessica, and it is wrong of me that I fought with, and screamed at, an adult. But when I was on the phone with Boxer, I did not yell. I was crying because I felt really wronged by all of this.
Honestly, a lot of this looks like simple misunderstandings spiraling out of control to me. The two accounts of events are really not all that different. Bad timing and both sides not acting perfectly seemed to have led to lots of avoidable drama, guessing from the information provided. Meh. :/ Why doesn't everybody just read this post (again) and be reasonable: Conti's conclusion is correct. We shouldn't know about this conversation anyway but there you go. Also; It's very unlikely that there is ever gonna be real evidence with stuff like this, even if it's recorded. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:39 lilsusie wrote:
He has chat logs that he had with her before the phone call. He probably doesn't have the recorded phone call. I think this is all hanging on the "형해뭔" statement in the end. Ah, Koreans. (PS. I'm Korean who lives in Korea too. Please don't say that I don't understand culture or whatever.) I take it you were one of the translators for Cranks statement?
As I wrote before, he's a 동생 (little brother) of mine. It just so happens we've talked on Skype about this.
I agree. This is a very he said she said / he meant this, she heard this situation.
On October 22 2012 01:05 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:01 lilsusie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:58 m4inbrain wrote:On October 22 2012 00:54 lilsusie wrote:
From what I know of Jessica is that she is very motherly of her players. I felt this when I've met her and the team at both IPLs now. She is in the right to care for them and feel hurt by their actions as most moms feel from their kids from time to time. The reason I say that she's overly emotional (maybe overbearing would be the better word) is because I feel that sometimes she doesn't take into account that these are grown men she's dealing with, not kids. Yes, she's a good 20 years older than they are but at the same time, they still are 20 something year old players who are trying to make a name for themselves.
From what I know of the players is that they are very good kids, quite respectful and polite. I've talked to/ interviewed/ translated for/ and helped out online these guys so I do actually have a small idea of what kind of people they are. Or at least what they showed me. And from what I've seen, I can only defend them because 1) maybe I'm super naive and 2) because everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Just because I've met them a few times does not make me an expert on these people, I know this. But at least I can say that I've gotten a bit of a glimpse of how they've interacted with one another and how their relationships seemed on the outside and thus, where I draw my conclusions from. I feel that many of you are basing a lot of your responses from mere words written on the internet without accepting that human beings are multifaceted creatures. Just my opinion. No one here is attacking you for your opinion about these players (or at all). And if you believe them, its your thing. But dont judge people who dont. Speaking for myself, i dont know these players, so i just can form my opinion on stuff based what i read. Jessica had some stuff backing up her stories, so overall, im more likely to believe her. That does not mean that i think shes right with everything, but if i were in doubt of a story, i would be more likely to believe her. You know? I'm not judging. I think someone called me out on the fact that I think that Jessica is picking fights and frankly, I think she is. She reminds me of my mom actually. -_- Yes, the cheap shot thing. People are quite sensitive in this thread (me included, thats why i jumped the gun when i misunderstood you about "the recording"), so, yeah. She actually does remind me of an "old fashioned" mother. Which is not inherently a bad thing. As a manager maybe, but overall, i dont think so. Edit: in fact, she reminds me a little bit of these feisty chinese grandmothers in old kung-fu films (especially old Jacky Chan movies). ^^
It's not a bad thing. She'd make a great Korean mom. It's just that her players are not her kids. I really do think that's why she's feeling hurt or betrayed by them. It's one of those "I did so much for you and you're so ungrateful!" things. I really DO see her side of it too but in this situation, it just got a bit out of hand.
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On October 22 2012 01:04 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:00 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 S_SienZ wrote:On October 22 2012 00:49 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:45 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 00:43 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:38 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:30 lilsusie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:25 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:23 lilsusie wrote:
[quote]
He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights. Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer? Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either. What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him. I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up. "Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2." Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time. It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them. I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed? I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her. Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her. Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there. And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team. What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation. Thats not evidence, that hear say. Evidence is objective, everything so far have been subjective accounts of the situation. Crank and Jessica are subjetive and as such their accounts can't be taken as imperial evidence. Hell, no testermony should ever be taken as 100% correct. Also, Crank shouldn't prove his innocent, Jessica should prove his guilt, Err... no. Stuff like circumstantial evidence, certain forms of hearsay evidence, and even eyewitness evidence aren't objective, but can be admitted as evidence nevertheless. What Xiphos was trying to establish was that Crank made certain accusations of Boxer, which was directly quoted by TB, there's no reason for Crank to lie about such things. None of that proves that Crank in full volition tried to sabotage Jessica. Innocent until proven guilty. Isn't that what this is about? We can find faults in what TB said, sure, but that doesn't prove that he did what she said he did. God I hate politics. No, I did not write Jessica. I wrote BoxeR. And what would Crank be guilty anyways in the first place. The point is that by saying that BoxeR don't care about SlayerS, he is effectively ruining someone else' reputation.
Jessica started a S*** storm, but I am focusing on the fact that she makes Crank out to be evil. He lies, decieves and abuses ( Yelling at her) Yet nothing is proven, she says she has a recording. Fine show it, that is evidence, but she doesn't. Why ? To protect other people, so its not the truth Jessica wanted to show. Because the recording contains truths she doesn't want to become public, why?
But the way she paints herself as a loving mother whose kids rejected her is brilliant. Her failling in all of this, is that she loves. Sounds like a story to me.
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On October 22 2012 01:09 lilsusie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:05 Penev wrote:On October 21 2012 22:00 Conti wrote:I thought it would be interesting to compare Jessica's original statement to Crank's, so that's just what I did: Jessica's statementCrank's statementI also bolded statements that are important or directly contradict each other.
- The reason why MMA got demoted was not that. I have explained why he was being bullied and mocked and got him comprehended. That's when Crank and MMA hung around alot after that. Crank visited me and complained that the team atmosphere was so bad, he felt pressured and stressed. That's when I asked BoxeR, who at the time was resting to sort out his shoulder problem, to stay in the team house and look after them.
- However, Crank complained once again that talking to the coach and BoxeR's presence did not make any difference and asked me what I actually did. I felt very sorry to him. My player is complaining and all I did didn't help him..
- Crank told me that because his neck is sore, he needed to rest. This was right before GSTL quarter finals. He said as he finished preparing for his game and he can pratise that only. I asked Cella if it's ok for him to go home and Cella told me that he has got his build order prepared for a map so he may go home.
- That weekend, he texted me requesting to be removed from the entry. Because he seemed so ill, I talked to him on messenger to see if he was ok. He didn't answer so I left a message saying 'Rest well physically and mentally peacefully and see you at the stadium'. He then texted Cella 'what is she doing this to me?' .. I don't know what I did
In refuting the first accusation I want to explain I felt for a while that Jessica, Boxer and coach Cella were not taking proper care of the team, in terms of motivation, practice routines, house atmosphere, etcetera. For many months I requested that we receive better care from the management, and although they always said they would, nothing seemed to change. Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2.
- That's when Cella told me that he wanted to quit and is not practising at home. He wanted to quit and rest and he has no intention of moving to another team so he begged me to release him from the contract. I had no intention of holding his back and I agreed that he wanted to rest so I let him go.
That's why I asked to go home [bad atmosphere, etc.], and leave the team, because nothing seemed to change for the better. Regarding this, I've talked to Boxer about it privately, and Boxer said, in that conversation, that he admits, and recognises, his fault. I made it a point to tell him that it was not about the money, or about going to a better team, because I did not want any misunderstandings when I left. But Jessica continually would not recognise her own mistakes, and made me out to be the bad guy who abandoned the team to survive on his own.
- But.. I was told by others that he is streaming and looking for a foreign team. So I asked him why he had to lie and what his unprofessional attitutes are for. I asked him if he knew why MMA wanted to leave the team. He answered 'it's because of me - when I told MMA that I want to move to another team because of the team atmosphere, MMA wanted to join me'. I asked MMA whether it was true and he denied.
Once I left the team , and went back home, I realised how alone I was. I had no team, and was only a Code B player with nothing to brag about. On top of that, I was an old, Korean age 24, player living at home. As a man who has already finished his military service, I could not ask my family for much monetary support. It was a humbling challenge for me to be back there. Because of this, I started streaming, but since my career wasn't that great I only made about one hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand wan a month, which is about the equivalent of one hundred and forty to one hundred and eighty five dollars. That is what prompted me to look for a team that could provide me with a good gaming environment so that I could better myself. It was never my intention to search for a team with lots of money.
- Recently, Crank rang me and screamed 'why are you relating me with Ganzi, Alicia and MMA's problem? do you want to ruin my progamer life?' I lost my words. I knew he wasn't happy with me and the team. But I asked 'Do you know where you are yelling at? I have looked after you and cared for you as the team owner and the manager for years'.. but he yelled back saying 'who do you think you are? where are you yelling at?'. Boxer who was right next to me got the phone off me after listening to him, but then he also yelled at BoxeR saying 'what were you doing during all this?' and then claimed that he will only play SC2 for this year and he just wanted to enjoy the game and that's why he left the team. I have this on recording and I will see what he does in the future.
In response to the second accusation, my response is that during my last phone call with Jessica we got into a screaming match. No matter what I said, she refused to listen, saying 'no matter what you say, I will not listen to you, you are a liar who left the team.' I urged her to resolve this matter over the phone, but her mind was made up. I kept on trying to talk with her, but it was in vain. Then Boxer got on the phone. He explained that, according to him, from the perspective of the team and himself, I was the cause of all the internal issues, including the MMA, Ryung and Alicia ones. I questioned this statement. I asked him 'don't you remember all the times I said let's change things and let's work harder, why do you think I am the cause.' After I reminded him of our past conversations, he finally said that he understood where I was coming from, but from the view of the team, that's just the way it had to be. He said 'I recognise that you tried your best to change things, but there's nothing I can do from the perspective of the team. I also accept responsibility that I did wrong too, but it would have been better if you didn't leave the team on such a bad note. After all this, we can set up a separate meeting and reconcile you and Jessica.' I broke down crying due to frustration. It is true that I had very angry emotions that I couldn't hold back any more regarding Jessica, and it is wrong of me that I fought with, and screamed at, an adult. But when I was on the phone with Boxer, I did not yell. I was crying because I felt really wronged by all of this.
Honestly, a lot of this looks like simple misunderstandings spiraling out of control to me. The two accounts of events are really not all that different. Bad timing and both sides not acting perfectly seemed to have led to lots of avoidable drama, guessing from the information provided. Meh. :/ Why doesn't everybody just read this post (again) and be reasonable: Conti's conclusion is correct. We shouldn't know about this conversation anyway but there you go. Also; It's very unlikely that there is ever gonna be real evidence with stuff like this, even if it's recorded. On October 22 2012 00:39 lilsusie wrote:
He has chat logs that he had with her before the phone call. He probably doesn't have the recorded phone call. I think this is all hanging on the "형해뭔" statement in the end. Ah, Koreans. (PS. I'm Korean who lives in Korea too. Please don't say that I don't understand culture or whatever.) I take it you were one of the translators for Cranks statement? As I wrote before, he's a 동생 (little brother) of mine. It just so happens we've talked on Skype about this. I agree. This is a very he said she said / he meant this, she heard this situation. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:05 m4inbrain wrote:On October 22 2012 01:01 lilsusie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:58 m4inbrain wrote:On October 22 2012 00:54 lilsusie wrote:
From what I know of Jessica is that she is very motherly of her players. I felt this when I've met her and the team at both IPLs now. She is in the right to care for them and feel hurt by their actions as most moms feel from their kids from time to time. The reason I say that she's overly emotional (maybe overbearing would be the better word) is because I feel that sometimes she doesn't take into account that these are grown men she's dealing with, not kids. Yes, she's a good 20 years older than they are but at the same time, they still are 20 something year old players who are trying to make a name for themselves.
From what I know of the players is that they are very good kids, quite respectful and polite. I've talked to/ interviewed/ translated for/ and helped out online these guys so I do actually have a small idea of what kind of people they are. Or at least what they showed me. And from what I've seen, I can only defend them because 1) maybe I'm super naive and 2) because everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Just because I've met them a few times does not make me an expert on these people, I know this. But at least I can say that I've gotten a bit of a glimpse of how they've interacted with one another and how their relationships seemed on the outside and thus, where I draw my conclusions from. I feel that many of you are basing a lot of your responses from mere words written on the internet without accepting that human beings are multifaceted creatures. Just my opinion. No one here is attacking you for your opinion about these players (or at all). And if you believe them, its your thing. But dont judge people who dont. Speaking for myself, i dont know these players, so i just can form my opinion on stuff based what i read. Jessica had some stuff backing up her stories, so overall, im more likely to believe her. That does not mean that i think shes right with everything, but if i were in doubt of a story, i would be more likely to believe her. You know? I'm not judging. I think someone called me out on the fact that I think that Jessica is picking fights and frankly, I think she is. She reminds me of my mom actually. -_- Yes, the cheap shot thing. People are quite sensitive in this thread (me included, thats why i jumped the gun when i misunderstood you about "the recording"), so, yeah. She actually does remind me of an "old fashioned" mother. Which is not inherently a bad thing. As a manager maybe, but overall, i dont think so. Edit: in fact, she reminds me a little bit of these feisty chinese grandmothers in old kung-fu films (especially old Jacky Chan movies). ^^ It's not a bad thing. She's make a great Korean mom. It's just that her players are not her kids.
They are not, thats right. But they're also acting immature (in my eyes), just like Jessica sometimes. Also, the little Brother thing, literally or "so to say"? May be a stupid question.
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On October 22 2012 01:09 lilsusie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:05 Penev wrote:On October 21 2012 22:00 Conti wrote:I thought it would be interesting to compare Jessica's original statement to Crank's, so that's just what I did: Jessica's statementCrank's statementI also bolded statements that are important or directly contradict each other.
- The reason why MMA got demoted was not that. I have explained why he was being bullied and mocked and got him comprehended. That's when Crank and MMA hung around alot after that. Crank visited me and complained that the team atmosphere was so bad, he felt pressured and stressed. That's when I asked BoxeR, who at the time was resting to sort out his shoulder problem, to stay in the team house and look after them.
- However, Crank complained once again that talking to the coach and BoxeR's presence did not make any difference and asked me what I actually did. I felt very sorry to him. My player is complaining and all I did didn't help him..
- Crank told me that because his neck is sore, he needed to rest. This was right before GSTL quarter finals. He said as he finished preparing for his game and he can pratise that only. I asked Cella if it's ok for him to go home and Cella told me that he has got his build order prepared for a map so he may go home.
- That weekend, he texted me requesting to be removed from the entry. Because he seemed so ill, I talked to him on messenger to see if he was ok. He didn't answer so I left a message saying 'Rest well physically and mentally peacefully and see you at the stadium'. He then texted Cella 'what is she doing this to me?' .. I don't know what I did
In refuting the first accusation I want to explain I felt for a while that Jessica, Boxer and coach Cella were not taking proper care of the team, in terms of motivation, practice routines, house atmosphere, etcetera. For many months I requested that we receive better care from the management, and although they always said they would, nothing seemed to change. Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2.
- That's when Cella told me that he wanted to quit and is not practising at home. He wanted to quit and rest and he has no intention of moving to another team so he begged me to release him from the contract. I had no intention of holding his back and I agreed that he wanted to rest so I let him go.
That's why I asked to go home [bad atmosphere, etc.], and leave the team, because nothing seemed to change for the better. Regarding this, I've talked to Boxer about it privately, and Boxer said, in that conversation, that he admits, and recognises, his fault. I made it a point to tell him that it was not about the money, or about going to a better team, because I did not want any misunderstandings when I left. But Jessica continually would not recognise her own mistakes, and made me out to be the bad guy who abandoned the team to survive on his own.
- But.. I was told by others that he is streaming and looking for a foreign team. So I asked him why he had to lie and what his unprofessional attitutes are for. I asked him if he knew why MMA wanted to leave the team. He answered 'it's because of me - when I told MMA that I want to move to another team because of the team atmosphere, MMA wanted to join me'. I asked MMA whether it was true and he denied.
Once I left the team , and went back home, I realised how alone I was. I had no team, and was only a Code B player with nothing to brag about. On top of that, I was an old, Korean age 24, player living at home. As a man who has already finished his military service, I could not ask my family for much monetary support. It was a humbling challenge for me to be back there. Because of this, I started streaming, but since my career wasn't that great I only made about one hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand wan a month, which is about the equivalent of one hundred and forty to one hundred and eighty five dollars. That is what prompted me to look for a team that could provide me with a good gaming environment so that I could better myself. It was never my intention to search for a team with lots of money.
- Recently, Crank rang me and screamed 'why are you relating me with Ganzi, Alicia and MMA's problem? do you want to ruin my progamer life?' I lost my words. I knew he wasn't happy with me and the team. But I asked 'Do you know where you are yelling at? I have looked after you and cared for you as the team owner and the manager for years'.. but he yelled back saying 'who do you think you are? where are you yelling at?'. Boxer who was right next to me got the phone off me after listening to him, but then he also yelled at BoxeR saying 'what were you doing during all this?' and then claimed that he will only play SC2 for this year and he just wanted to enjoy the game and that's why he left the team. I have this on recording and I will see what he does in the future.
In response to the second accusation, my response is that during my last phone call with Jessica we got into a screaming match. No matter what I said, she refused to listen, saying 'no matter what you say, I will not listen to you, you are a liar who left the team.' I urged her to resolve this matter over the phone, but her mind was made up. I kept on trying to talk with her, but it was in vain. Then Boxer got on the phone. He explained that, according to him, from the perspective of the team and himself, I was the cause of all the internal issues, including the MMA, Ryung and Alicia ones. I questioned this statement. I asked him 'don't you remember all the times I said let's change things and let's work harder, why do you think I am the cause.' After I reminded him of our past conversations, he finally said that he understood where I was coming from, but from the view of the team, that's just the way it had to be. He said 'I recognise that you tried your best to change things, but there's nothing I can do from the perspective of the team. I also accept responsibility that I did wrong too, but it would have been better if you didn't leave the team on such a bad note. After all this, we can set up a separate meeting and reconcile you and Jessica.' I broke down crying due to frustration. It is true that I had very angry emotions that I couldn't hold back any more regarding Jessica, and it is wrong of me that I fought with, and screamed at, an adult. But when I was on the phone with Boxer, I did not yell. I was crying because I felt really wronged by all of this.
Honestly, a lot of this looks like simple misunderstandings spiraling out of control to me. The two accounts of events are really not all that different. Bad timing and both sides not acting perfectly seemed to have led to lots of avoidable drama, guessing from the information provided. Meh. :/ Why doesn't everybody just read this post (again) and be reasonable: Conti's conclusion is correct. We shouldn't know about this conversation anyway but there you go. Also; It's very unlikely that there is ever gonna be real evidence with stuff like this, even if it's recorded. On October 22 2012 00:39 lilsusie wrote:
He has chat logs that he had with her before the phone call. He probably doesn't have the recorded phone call. I think this is all hanging on the "형해뭔" statement in the end. Ah, Koreans. (PS. I'm Korean who lives in Korea too. Please don't say that I don't understand culture or whatever.) I take it you were one of the translators for Cranks statement? As I wrote before, he's a 동생 (little brother) of mine. It just so happens we've talked on Skype about this. I agree. This is a very he said she said / he meant this, she heard this situation. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:05 m4inbrain wrote:On October 22 2012 01:01 lilsusie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:58 m4inbrain wrote:On October 22 2012 00:54 lilsusie wrote:
From what I know of Jessica is that she is very motherly of her players. I felt this when I've met her and the team at both IPLs now. She is in the right to care for them and feel hurt by their actions as most moms feel from their kids from time to time. The reason I say that she's overly emotional (maybe overbearing would be the better word) is because I feel that sometimes she doesn't take into account that these are grown men she's dealing with, not kids. Yes, she's a good 20 years older than they are but at the same time, they still are 20 something year old players who are trying to make a name for themselves.
From what I know of the players is that they are very good kids, quite respectful and polite. I've talked to/ interviewed/ translated for/ and helped out online these guys so I do actually have a small idea of what kind of people they are. Or at least what they showed me. And from what I've seen, I can only defend them because 1) maybe I'm super naive and 2) because everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Just because I've met them a few times does not make me an expert on these people, I know this. But at least I can say that I've gotten a bit of a glimpse of how they've interacted with one another and how their relationships seemed on the outside and thus, where I draw my conclusions from. I feel that many of you are basing a lot of your responses from mere words written on the internet without accepting that human beings are multifaceted creatures. Just my opinion. No one here is attacking you for your opinion about these players (or at all). And if you believe them, its your thing. But dont judge people who dont. Speaking for myself, i dont know these players, so i just can form my opinion on stuff based what i read. Jessica had some stuff backing up her stories, so overall, im more likely to believe her. That does not mean that i think shes right with everything, but if i were in doubt of a story, i would be more likely to believe her. You know? I'm not judging. I think someone called me out on the fact that I think that Jessica is picking fights and frankly, I think she is. She reminds me of my mom actually. -_- Yes, the cheap shot thing. People are quite sensitive in this thread (me included, thats why i jumped the gun when i misunderstood you about "the recording"), so, yeah. She actually does remind me of an "old fashioned" mother. Which is not inherently a bad thing. As a manager maybe, but overall, i dont think so. Edit: in fact, she reminds me a little bit of these feisty chinese grandmothers in old kung-fu films (especially old Jacky Chan movies). ^^ It's not a bad thing. She's make a great Korean mom. It's just that her players are not her kids.
Ah, I see, missed that, sorry. It's hard to catch everything in this thread.
Yeah, it's literally he said/ she said..
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3861 Posts
Little brother, so to say.
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Of course Jessica is picking fights.
Thats what she always does. Like all the time.
Her twitter outrages were getting so frequent we had people asking for a "General Jessica tweets about inane BS" thread instead of making new threads every time.
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On October 22 2012 01:01 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:57 herbie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:45 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 00:43 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:38 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:30 lilsusie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:25 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:23 lilsusie wrote:On October 21 2012 23:46 farnham wrote:On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote:
So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely. the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt. it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what? he needs to be specific also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights. Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer? Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either. What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him. I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up. "Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2." Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time. It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them. I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed? I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her. Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her. Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there. And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team. What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation. He is explaining his actions for gods sake.. That is what the whole statement is for, you would rather him not explain why he did what he did or lie about it. Hey kudos for explaining it. But simultaneously, it is damaging BoxeR reputation. So while he is providing a coherent explanation, he is also foreboding a totally other topic which I argued there.
I know that "But he/she started it!" is a line of reasoning popular in kindergartens, but.. when it comes to damaging people's reputation out of nowhere, you can think for yourself who started with that. 
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On October 22 2012 01:11 Linoge20 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:04 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 01:00 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 S_SienZ wrote:On October 22 2012 00:49 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:45 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 00:43 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:38 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:30 lilsusie wrote:On October 22 2012 00:25 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer?
Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either. What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him. I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up. "Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2." Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time. It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them. I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed? I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her. Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her. Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there. And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team. What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation. Thats not evidence, that hear say. Evidence is objective, everything so far have been subjective accounts of the situation. Crank and Jessica are subjetive and as such their accounts can't be taken as imperial evidence. Hell, no testermony should ever be taken as 100% correct. Also, Crank shouldn't prove his innocent, Jessica should prove his guilt, Err... no. Stuff like circumstantial evidence, certain forms of hearsay evidence, and even eyewitness evidence aren't objective, but can be admitted as evidence nevertheless. What Xiphos was trying to establish was that Crank made certain accusations of Boxer, which was directly quoted by TB, there's no reason for Crank to lie about such things. None of that proves that Crank in full volition tried to sabotage Jessica. Innocent until proven guilty. Isn't that what this is about? We can find faults in what TB said, sure, but that doesn't prove that he did what she said he did. God I hate politics. No, I did not write Jessica. I wrote BoxeR. And what would Crank be guilty anyways in the first place. The point is that by saying that BoxeR don't care about SlayerS, he is effectively ruining someone else' reputation. Jessica started a S*** storm, but I am focusing on the fact that she makes Crank out to be evil. He lies, decieves and abuses ( Yelling at her) Yet nothing is proven, she says she has a recording. Fine show it, that is evidence, but she doesn't. Why ? To protect other people, so its not the truth Jessica wanted to show. Because the recording contains truths she doesn't want to become public, why? But the way she paints herself as a loving mother whose kids rejected her is brilliant. Her failling in all of this, is that she loves. Sounds like a story to me.
Again, take a good read at the last 10 pages and you'll find the evidence of various Emails, Twitter posts and etc.
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On October 22 2012 01:21 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:11 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 01:04 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 01:00 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 S_SienZ wrote:On October 22 2012 00:49 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:45 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 00:43 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:38 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:30 lilsusie wrote:
[quote]
What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him.
I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up. "Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2." Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time. It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them. I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed? I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her. Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her. Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there. And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team. What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation. Thats not evidence, that hear say. Evidence is objective, everything so far have been subjective accounts of the situation. Crank and Jessica are subjetive and as such their accounts can't be taken as imperial evidence. Hell, no testermony should ever be taken as 100% correct. Also, Crank shouldn't prove his innocent, Jessica should prove his guilt, Err... no. Stuff like circumstantial evidence, certain forms of hearsay evidence, and even eyewitness evidence aren't objective, but can be admitted as evidence nevertheless. What Xiphos was trying to establish was that Crank made certain accusations of Boxer, which was directly quoted by TB, there's no reason for Crank to lie about such things. None of that proves that Crank in full volition tried to sabotage Jessica. Innocent until proven guilty. Isn't that what this is about? We can find faults in what TB said, sure, but that doesn't prove that he did what she said he did. God I hate politics. No, I did not write Jessica. I wrote BoxeR. And what would Crank be guilty anyways in the first place. The point is that by saying that BoxeR don't care about SlayerS, he is effectively ruining someone else' reputation. Jessica started a S*** storm, but I am focusing on the fact that she makes Crank out to be evil. He lies, decieves and abuses ( Yelling at her) Yet nothing is proven, she says she has a recording. Fine show it, that is evidence, but she doesn't. Why ? To protect other people, so its not the truth Jessica wanted to show. Because the recording contains truths she doesn't want to become public, why? But the way she paints herself as a loving mother whose kids rejected her is brilliant. Her failling in all of this, is that she loves. Sounds like a story to me. Again, take a good read at the last 10 pages and you'll find the evidence of various Emails, Twitter posts and etc.
If I could find any evidence I wouldn't say there wasn't any. information gets deluded pretty fast in this thread.
Well, as it stands right now there is no way to find the truth. I am gonna come back later and hope that there is a coherent post with all relevant information.
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On October 22 2012 01:29 Linoge20 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:21 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 01:11 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 01:04 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 01:00 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 S_SienZ wrote:On October 22 2012 00:49 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:45 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 00:43 Linoge20 wrote:On October 22 2012 00:38 Shival wrote:
[quote]
"Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2."
Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time.
It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them.
I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed?
I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her. Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her. Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there. And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team. What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation. Thats not evidence, that hear say. Evidence is objective, everything so far have been subjective accounts of the situation. Crank and Jessica are subjetive and as such their accounts can't be taken as imperial evidence. Hell, no testermony should ever be taken as 100% correct. Also, Crank shouldn't prove his innocent, Jessica should prove his guilt, Err... no. Stuff like circumstantial evidence, certain forms of hearsay evidence, and even eyewitness evidence aren't objective, but can be admitted as evidence nevertheless. What Xiphos was trying to establish was that Crank made certain accusations of Boxer, which was directly quoted by TB, there's no reason for Crank to lie about such things. None of that proves that Crank in full volition tried to sabotage Jessica. Innocent until proven guilty. Isn't that what this is about? We can find faults in what TB said, sure, but that doesn't prove that he did what she said he did. God I hate politics. No, I did not write Jessica. I wrote BoxeR. And what would Crank be guilty anyways in the first place. The point is that by saying that BoxeR don't care about SlayerS, he is effectively ruining someone else' reputation. Jessica started a S*** storm, but I am focusing on the fact that she makes Crank out to be evil. He lies, decieves and abuses ( Yelling at her) Yet nothing is proven, she says she has a recording. Fine show it, that is evidence, but she doesn't. Why ? To protect other people, so its not the truth Jessica wanted to show. Because the recording contains truths she doesn't want to become public, why? But the way she paints herself as a loving mother whose kids rejected her is brilliant. Her failling in all of this, is that she loves. Sounds like a story to me. Again, take a good read at the last 10 pages and you'll find the evidence of various Emails, Twitter posts and etc. If I could find any evidence I wouldn't say there wasn't any. information gets deluded pretty fast in this thread. Well, as it stands right now there is no way to find the truth. I am gonna come back later and hope that there is a coherent post with all relevant information.
More or less, people who are current with this series of event pretty much know that what Jessica is saying are true and backed by her hard evidence.
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