On October 22 2012 00:39 lilsusie wrote: He has chat logs that he had with her before the phone call. He probably doesn't have the recorded phone call. I think this is all hanging on the "형해뭔" statement in the end. Ah, Koreans. (PS. I'm Korean who lives in Korea too. Please don't say that I don't understand culture or whatever.)
Just saying, you were talking about "the recording". I dont want to be offensive, but please, dont twist words here. If you are talking about chatlogs, then dont call them "the recording", which is an entirely different thing. Not meant personal though.
On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote: So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely.
the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt.
it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested
if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund
he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what?
he needs to be specific
also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences
He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights.
Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer?
Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either.
What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him.
I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up.
"Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2."
Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time.
It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them.
I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed?
I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her.
Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her.
Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there.
And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team.
What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation.
On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote: So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely.
the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt.
it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested
if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund
he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what?
he needs to be specific
also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences
He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights.
Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer?
Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either.
What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him.
I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up.
"Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2."
Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time.
It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them.
I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed?
I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her.
Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her.
I'm obviously talking about the other parts of her story, they have so far checked out and thus there's no reason to disbelieve the rest in my opinion. You may want to look up what I wrote on Crank's statement on how it's flawed in the comment section of the TotalBisquit blog, or a lot of pages back in this thread.
On October 22 2012 00:39 lilsusie wrote: He has chat logs that he had with her before the phone call. He probably doesn't have the recorded phone call. I think this is all hanging on the "형해뭔" statement in the end. Ah, Koreans. (PS. I'm Korean who lives in Korea too. Please don't say that I don't understand culture or whatever.)
자네가 최재원과 어떤 관계인지 모르겠지만 임요환한테 해준게 뭐냐가 죄가 아니고 이를 들은 이스포팬이 화내는게 이상하다 여긴다면 자네는 이스포츠를 논할 자격이 없는 사람이네. 임요환이 그렇게 까지 노력해서 일궈낸 판이니 당연한 것이지. 자네 남친이 이스포츠로 돈 벌수있는것도 간접적으로 임요환덕이고. 임요환이 스2 참가 안했다면 gsl 이 흥했을까? 그런것을 망각하고 형해뭔이라고 한자를 두둔할려면 논리적으로 해주시길 익스포츠 팬 전체를 욕하지 말고.
While I do think a more elaborate explanation on Crank's part would've possibly hurt BoxeR's image, his statement in his current form... does invite more questions than the amount it answers imo.
On October 22 2012 00:46 lilsusie wrote: Where did I say recordings? (My memory fails me.)
What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him.
But come to think of it, i may have misunderstood you. If so, sorry for that.
Edit:
자네가 최재원과 어떤 관계인지 모르겠지만 임요환한테 해준게 뭐냐가 죄가 아니고 이를 들은 이스포팬이 화내는게 이상하다 여긴다면 자네는 이스포츠를 논할 자격이 없는 사람이네. 임요환이 그렇게 까지 노력해서 일궈낸 판이니 당연한 것이지. 자네 남친이 이스포츠로 돈 벌수있는것도 간접적으로 임요환덕이고. 임요환이 스2 참가 안했다면 gsl 이 흥했을까? 그런것을 망각하고 형해뭔이라고 한자를 두둔할려면 논리적으로 해주시길 익스포츠 팬 전체를 욕하지 말고.
On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote: So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely.
the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt.
it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested
if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund
he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what?
he needs to be specific
also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences
He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights.
Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer?
Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either.
What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him.
I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up.
"Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2."
Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time.
It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them.
I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed?
I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her.
Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her.
Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there.
And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team.
What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation.
Thats not evidence, that hear say. Evidence is objective, everything so far have been subjective accounts of the situation. Crank and Jessica are subjetive and as such their accounts can't be taken as imperial evidence. Hell, no testermony should ever be taken as 100% correct.
Also, Crank shouldn't prove his innocent, Jessica should prove his guilt,
....SlayerS (Korean: 슬레이어스, known officially in English as "SlayerS Clan") is a professional StarCraft 2 team created by BoxeR. ...
...August 16th, BoxeR, the original founder of both teams, leaves SlayerS to rejoin SK Telecom T1 as a coach...[21]
you need to watch boxer's wing. Without jessica, boxer may have never transitioned into SC2 without jessica, boxer wouldn't have the big sponsor that he got and funded the team
Wait, what @ the statement.
You gotta post up the link to BoxeR's wing.
it's in boxers' wing episode 1 somewhere (esp 1 is listed as private on youtube somehow, link is here: basically if my memory served me correct, it went something like this: boxer wasn't sure where to go since his performance in SC1 was not up there anymore, he was offered to become coach (which basically means he won't appear as a player anymore), he felt lost as to where he should go for his future.
It wasn't until jessica who convinced him to go to SC2 that he made his decision. She supported him by going all the way to quit (not sure if it was a full retirement or just quit temporary) her acting career in order to help with his everyday life, along with schedules, grabbing sponsors, cooking, washing, dressing him up, grabbing friends to come along to cheer him up when training wasn't going so well etc.
On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote: So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely.
the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt.
it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested
if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund
he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what?
he needs to be specific
also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences
He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights.
Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer?
Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either.
What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him.
I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up.
"Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2."
Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time.
It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them.
I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed?
I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her.
Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her.
Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there.
And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team.
What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation.
Thats not evidence, that hear say. Evidence is objective, everything so far have been subjective accounts of the situation. Crank and Jessica are subjetive and as such their accounts can't be taken as imperial evidence. Hell, no testermony should ever be taken as 100% correct.
Also, Crank shouldn't prove his innocent, Jessica should prove his guilt,
Err... no. Stuff like circumstantial evidence, certain forms of hearsay evidence, and even eyewitness evidence aren't objective, but can be admitted as evidence nevertheless.
What Xiphos was trying to establish was that Crank made certain accusations of Boxer, which was directly quoted by TB, there's no reason for Crank to lie about such things.
On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote: So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely.
the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt.
it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested
if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund
he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what?
he needs to be specific
also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences
He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights.
Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer?
Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either.
What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him.
I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up.
"Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2."
Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time.
It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them.
I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed?
I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her.
Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her.
Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there.
And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team.
What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation.
Thats not evidence, that hear say. Evidence is objective, everything so far have been subjective accounts of the situation. Crank and Jessica are subjetive and as such their accounts can't be taken as imperial evidence. Hell, no testermony should ever be taken as 100% correct.
Also, Crank shouldn't prove his innocent, Jessica should prove his guilt,
I believe in South Korea they first give you the option to publicly apologize as a courtesy before showing private information that may prove your point. I'm pretty sure Jessica was looking for this at first.
On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote: So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely.
the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt.
it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested
if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund
he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what?
he needs to be specific
also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences
He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights.
Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer?
Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either.
What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him.
I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up.
"Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2."
Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time.
It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them.
I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed?
I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her.
Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her.
Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there.
And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team.
What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation.
Thats not evidence, that hear say. Evidence is objective, everything so far have been subjective accounts of the situation. Crank and Jessica are subjetive and as such their accounts can't be taken as imperial evidence. Hell, no testermony should ever be taken as 100% correct.
Also, Crank shouldn't prove his innocent, Jessica should prove his guilt,
The evidence is that Crank said those word as released by TB. And that CranK is indeed to undermine BoxeR's reputation. And that's objective here.
By the by, you really should READ everything in the thread, I think you will find a lot of answers regarding to your questions over the so-called 'evidence' that you seek.
From what I know of Jessica is that she is very motherly of her players. I felt this when I've met her and the team at both IPLs now. She is in the right to care for them and feel hurt by their actions as most moms feel from their kids from time to time. The reason I say that she's overly emotional (maybe overbearing would be the better word) is because I feel that sometimes she doesn't take into account that these are grown men she's dealing with, not kids. Yes, she's a good 20 years older than they are but at the same time, they still are 20 something year old players who are trying to make a name for themselves.
From what I know of the players is that they are very good kids, quite respectful and polite. I've talked to/ interviewed/ translated for/ and helped out online these guys so I do actually have a small idea of what kind of people they are. Or at least what they showed me. And from what I've seen, I can only defend them because 1) maybe I'm super naive and 2) because everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Just because I've met them a few times does not make me an expert on these people, I know this. But at least I can say that I've gotten a bit of a glimpse of how they've interacted with one another and how their relationships seemed on the outside and thus, where I draw my conclusions from. I feel that many of you are basing a lot of your responses from mere words written on the internet without accepting that human beings are multifaceted creatures. Just my opinion.
On October 21 2012 21:46 DrakeFZX3 wrote: It's no wonder SlayerS collapsed. How can any player play in an environment where every conversation is being recorded, nothing spoken to management is confidential, and there's always a sense of fear if anyone ever spoke up about anything?
While Jessica has all the "evidence," she sounds incredibly manipulative and unable to blame herself for some of the team's failings.
What about the players who left on good terms they do not seem to be getting killed right now... Yes, there are some things that should remain private (ie slave contract) but some players choose not to express their opinions. IE Dragon said he wanted to retire from pro-gaming so he left but then joins Millennium a month or two later and Crank well I dont know the full story of it just Jessica's side. The evidence is used when the players or person wants to be a phony and not own up to what they have done, so the better question for you is that will people accused are unable to blame themselves for their parts played?
I think the worst part about all this is the announcement of SlayerS disbanding with Jessica airing out all the dirty laundry. Literally a list of people she throws all under the bus. Rather than leave gracefully, it's become a sideshow full of drama and she plays the blame game masterfully with all fingers pointing at everyone but herself.
I like TB's quote where he mentions when a team fails "one must look at the top rather than the bottom."
You're saying that it should be kept in the dark? For those that use underhanded methods, or lie and insult, to continue their practice unhindered? I think the quote "You reap what you sow" fits quite nicely.
As to the TB quote, lets say that Jessica is right for what I'm going to say next. One person cannot simply swim against the current. Regardless of how good a manager is, if enough is being stacked against you, you will fall.
There was a reason the current came in the first place. There wouldnt be anything, if things were fine. And while, Jessica didnt like the fact, it didnt change the situation. Players werent feeling well in the current enviroment. According to Crank they asked for changes. I dont defend the players, or their actions, but i can totally understand them. They felt they need to take some sort of action, and they did.
On October 21 2012 23:41 Ansinjunger wrote: So Crank's statement doesn't have any "hard facts" like receipts, recordings, or replays, and people consider it a weak statement? As someone pointed out, the two statements largely coincide, except for Crank's talks with Boxer.
In any case, none of these boys had any reason to be covering their tracks and all that bs that Jessica does. If you can't see how she is acting out of spite while they just want to be free from this hateful situation, I don't know what will convince you short of Boxer selling her out, which is very unlikely.
the crank statement only says that the atmosphere was bad, he tried to fix it but couldnt.
it doesnt say what he saw as the problem and what he suggested
if he suggested a payrise of 1000 percent that might have been good for morale but would have been hard for jessica and boxer to fund
he blames that boxer was in the team house but didnt help them... help them with what?
he needs to be specific
also that short statement took them days to produce... looks like they edited out everything that could be countered by jessicas evidences
He chose his words to make sure that no one else would get hurt. Obviously he's not going to be like "Boxer was actually doing X, Y and Z instead of doing A, B, C with us" because that would cause an even bigger ordeal. He's being politically very careful because he just wants people to know where he's coming from - Unlike Jessica, he's not looking to pick any more fights.
Since when is saying that Boxer joined the house but didn't take care of them, nor did anything for the team, nor practiced starcraft 2 not hurting Boxer?
Besides, if I were on the wrong side of the stick, I wouldn't be wanting to continue the fight either.
What if he said Boxer came to the house but was only playing Hello Kitty Adventure all day and ignoring the players? That would make it worse, no? And according to the recording, he didn't say that Boxer did nothing for him.
I'm not saying that Crank is 100% right but people are taking sides like they need to - when in fact, both sides basically had misunderstandings. I think that Crank could have handled it in a more mature way and I think Jessica is overly emotional, thus things blew up.
"Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2."
Direct transcript of the recording. While I agree that it doesn't directly say that he never took care of them. It does say he did too little, now I hope you read that with keeping in mind how much of his own fortune he spend on the team during that time.
It doesn't matter whether giving an example, plus evidence might make matters worse between Boxer/Jessica/Cella and Crank. What he's doing now, by alluding to negligence on Boxer, Jessica and Cella's part without showing examples or evidence makes matters just as bad between them.
I don't know in which world you live, but it's perfectly normal to take sides. Evidence has been shown, apologies have been issued. Why should we stay impartial? If we do stay impartial the story will never get out, as there's simply no outcry for it if we stay impartial. If we stay impartial, how long are we supposed to, how do we know when the last bit has been unearthed?
I agree that preferably this situation would've happened privately, but I believe that option has been tried while Slayers was still operational. I don't agree though that Jessica is overly emotional when players and organizations are seemingly lying to her.
Please show me this evidence you talk about. Evidence that shows that Crank in full volitiontried to sabotage her.
Hey man, go to Blog section and find it yourself. It is there.
And yes TB did indeed say those words that BoxeR was allegedly ignorant of his team.
What's CranK trying to accomplish here? He is dragging BoxeR under the mud here, that's definitely not helping to reconcile the situation.
He is explaining his actions for gods sake.. That is what the whole statement is for, would you rather him not explain why he did what he did or lie about it.
On October 22 2012 00:54 lilsusie wrote: From what I know of Jessica is that she is very motherly of her players. I felt this when I've met her and the team at both IPLs now. She is in the right to care for them and feel hurt by their actions as most moms feel from their kids from time to time. The reason I say that she's overly emotional (maybe overbearing would be the better word) is because I feel that sometimes she doesn't take into account that these are grown men she's dealing with, not kids. Yes, she's a good 20 years older than they are but at the same time, they still are 20 something year old players who are trying to make a name for themselves.
From what I know of the players is that they are very good kids, quite respectful and polite. I've talked to/ interviewed/ translated for/ and helped out online these guys so I do actually have a small idea of what kind of people they are. Or at least what they showed me. And from what I've seen, I can only defend them because 1) maybe I'm super naive and 2) because everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Just because I've met them a few times does not make me an expert on these people, I know this. But at least I can say that I've gotten a bit of a glimpse of how they've interacted with one another and how their relationships seemed on the outside and thus, where I draw my conclusions from. I feel that many of you are basing a lot of your responses from mere words written on the internet without accepting that human beings are multifaceted creatures. Just my opinion.
This post should be required reading for anyone in this thread. Everyone seems so eager to bash.
On October 22 2012 00:54 lilsusie wrote: From what I know of Jessica is that she is very motherly of her players. I felt this when I've met her and the team at both IPLs now. She is in the right to care for them and feel hurt by their actions as most moms feel from their kids from time to time. The reason I say that she's overly emotional (maybe overbearing would be the better word) is because I feel that sometimes she doesn't take into account that these are grown men she's dealing with, not kids. Yes, she's a good 20 years older than they are but at the same time, they still are 20 something year old players who are trying to make a name for themselves.
From what I know of the players is that they are very good kids, quite respectful and polite. I've talked to/ interviewed/ translated for/ and helped out online these guys so I do actually have a small idea of what kind of people they are. Or at least what they showed me. And from what I've seen, I can only defend them because 1) maybe I'm super naive and 2) because everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Just because I've met them a few times does not make me an expert on these people, I know this. But at least I can say that I've gotten a bit of a glimpse of how they've interacted with one another and how their relationships seemed on the outside and thus, where I draw my conclusions from. I feel that many of you are basing a lot of your responses from mere words written on the internet without accepting that human beings are multifaceted creatures. Just my opinion.
No one here is attacking you for your opinion about these players (or at all). And if you believe them, its your thing. But dont judge people who dont. Speaking for myself, i dont know these players, so i just can form my opinion on stuff based what i read. Jessica had some stuff backing up her stories, so overall, im more likely to believe her. That does not mean that i think shes right with everything, but if i were in doubt of a story, i would be more likely to believe her.
....SlayerS (Korean: 슬레이어스, known officially in English as "SlayerS Clan") is a professional StarCraft 2 team created by BoxeR. ...
...August 16th, BoxeR, the original founder of both teams, leaves SlayerS to rejoin SK Telecom T1 as a coach...[21]
you need to watch boxer's wing. Without jessica, boxer may have never transitioned into SC2 without jessica, boxer wouldn't have the big sponsor that he got and funded the team
Wait, what @ the statement.
You gotta post up the link to BoxeR's wing.
it's in boxers' wing episode 1 somewhere (esp 1 is listed as private on youtube somehow, link is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BITD7Evc34I#t=19m51s) basically if my memory served me correct, it went something like this: boxer wasn't sure where to go since his performance in SC1 was not up there anymore, he was offered to become coach (which basically means he won't appear as a player anymore), he felt lost as to where he should go for his future.
It wasn't until jessica who convinced him to go to SC2 that he made his decision. She supported him by going all the way to quit (not sure if it was a full retirement or just quit temporary) her acting career in order to help with his everyday life, along with schedules, grabbing sponsors, cooking, washing, dressing him up, grabbing friends to come along to cheer him up when training wasn't going so well etc.
Wow, damn it. Now I don't who is the luckier one of the two birds to have found each other. Western women should take some notes!
But on the other hand, I sort of wanted to see BoxeR coaching the perfect Terran in Fantasy because Flash got pretty boring to cheer at.
On October 22 2012 00:39 lilsusie wrote: He has chat logs that he had with her before the phone call. He probably doesn't have the recorded phone call. I think this is all hanging on the "형해뭔" statement in the end. Ah, Koreans. (PS. I'm Korean who lives in Korea too. Please don't say that I don't understand culture or whatever.)
자네가 최재원과 어떤 관계인지 모르겠지만 임요환한테 해준게 뭐냐가 죄가 아니고 이를 들은 이스포팬이 화내는게 이상하다 여긴다면 자네는 이스포츠를 논할 자격이 없는 사람이네. 임요환이 그렇게 까지 노력해서 일궈낸 판이니 당연한 것이지. 자네 남친이 이스포츠로 돈 벌수있는것도 간접적으로 임요환덕이고. 임요환이 스2 참가 안했다면 gsl 이 흥했을까? 그런것을 망각하고 형해뭔이라고 한자를 두둔할려면 논리적으로 해주시길 익스포츠 팬 전체를 욕하지 말고.
User was temp banned for this post.
There is no need to be rude. I was only saying that Koreans hang on one particular part of statements or respect factors. I know this. I did not say that it was strange that people think this. I am fully aware. Too aware.
EPT
