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leova
266 Posts
This is supposed to be a GAME...and IT'S NOT FUN! it's the same problem the recent COD games have, in my opinion - too much gimmicky crap and horrible participants, not enough FUN value. Heartbeat monitors and nukes are like 6-pools and reapers - stupid, gimmicky, and simply make people hate the game | ||
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ForeverSleep
Canada920 Posts
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aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
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Danule
Canada20 Posts
On October 17 2012 16:03 Tyree wrote: The biggest misconception reading this thread is that super popular online games like LoL, DOTA, CoD and Halo are all popular because they are competitively better and deeper games than SC2, and that the developers who made these games "listen" to the hardcore. You are getting it completely wrong They are popular because they are easy to get into from a casual point of view, they allow new players to jump in and have fun. That is the core point of what Destiny wrote, they are easy to understand on a basic level. Starcraft 2 is not, its too "hardcore" for its own good, to have fun in SC2 you have to invest months of playing the game just to be competitive, that is work Thats the main reason why I like sc2. Working hard at it is more rewarding than the more casual games. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19299 Posts
On October 18 2012 00:51 aka_star wrote: Its all true, I uninstalled sc2 last week! >_< after 2 years of it I thought I was the only one to feel this way. HotS looks so bad, not even bothering to get it. I uninstalled mine 2 months ago and haven't missed it. I play BW still almost once daily. | ||
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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
1. User interface sucks and is nowhere near as good as Riot or Valves interface system for Dota type games. 2. Gamers need to feel like they are always building towards something. 3. There needs to be some fun built into the game for casual gamers. 4. Gamers love customization. All his side comments aside, I don’t disagree with the guy, but I think Blizzard can really accomplish both tasks. I don’t think it is one or the other. You can accomplish these goals and make it a competitive game at the same (rewarding both the casual gamer and the competitive gamer), and IMO to take this game to the next level that’s what you need. I hate to say it asshole or not, he has some points. What really perplexes me with Blizzard is they’ve known that the user interface for example has been a major issue and yet really nothing. They always move on these things extremely slow. Blizzards time table for even some of the simpler fixes are years not months or days. Look at HotS, we are going on 2 ½ years and we are just now in beta. That will probably last 6 months and we’ll get the game sometime in the middle of next year. Everyone is excited to get the beta, and well, it isn’t exactly revolutionary. Hell, patch 1.5 wasn’t really revolutionary and then on top of that, there are still a whole slew of bugs that haven’t been fixed since patch 1.5 came out, which was quite a while back. Mean while, other games companies are fixing things faster, better user-interface, better communication, better community feel, etc. Valve and riot are really pushing their games to the limits. Personally, I play SC2 for the thinking component and when I'm tired of thinking, I play LoL, but again, I don't think there is any reason Blizzard can't accomplish both objectives. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On October 18 2012 00:49 leova wrote: completely valid topic, I consider myself a casual player, and sometimes trying to ladder on SC2 JUST ISN'T FUN...nothing but banshee harrass before i can even get myself setup, 6-pools, horrendous BM players, and ridiculous cheese and lag issues This is supposed to be a GAME...and IT'S NOT FUN! it's the same problem the recent COD games have, in my opinion - too much gimmicky crap and horrible participants, not enough FUN value. Heartbeat monitors and nukes are like 6-pools and reapers - stupid, gimmicky, and simply make people hate the game What? SC2 is like the opposite of COD. COD is successful because of all those stupid shitty gimmicks that people fill bars to unlock. | ||
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Seiferz
United States640 Posts
Compound SC2s own problems with a DOTA/LoL scene that are so much better taken care of and you have SC2 gone within 2 years. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
The dilemma here is that a lot of the people who think Broodwar was a great game, would never play sc2 if it tried to be more like LoL. I belong to this group, in fact in my experience most people in this category feels that the problem with hots is in fact that it is trying to be more like LoL. Either sc2 tries to be like LoL and Dota and take that market share, in which case we get hots, but then don't complain about how hots is dumbing the game down to attract more casual gamers. | ||
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EienShinwa
United States655 Posts
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Mackus
England1681 Posts
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Basique
Korea (South)40 Posts
On October 18 2012 01:02 VanGarde wrote: It is kind of interesting to see that there are so many people here who hold complete opposite visions of sc2 agree with each other without realizing that their visions are mutually exclusive. There is one group of people who feel that sc2 needs to be more mechanically demanding, allow for more early aggression and that hots is just dumbing it down too much. Most pro-gamers fall into this category. These people think that the failure of sc2 in Korea is because it is not as hard as Broodwar. Then there is the group of people who think that the problem is the opposite that sc2 is not tuned enough to the casual market and that it in fact should be MORE dumbed down. Both of these groups are writing in this thread about how they agree with Destiny, each seemingly thinking that he is talking about their method of reviving sc2. The dilemma here is that a lot of the people who think Broodwar was a great game, would never play sc2 if it tried to be more like LoL. I belong to this group, in fact in my experience most people in this category feels that the problem with hots is in fact that it is trying to be more like LoL. Either sc2 tries to be like LoL and Dota and take that market share, in which case we get hots, but then don't complain about how hots is dumbing the game down to attract more casual gamers. You didn't understand anything at all, and you are not the only one. NOWHERE it was state that there was a need for a casualized gameplay. Destiny talked about what is outside the game, so the lobby, the UI, the interface. | ||
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Phoobie
Canada120 Posts
"Blizzard, we want MORE" More Casual/new comer appeal More community within the interface More social interactions and activities within the interface More Awsome features to support the competitive aspect More dynamic, thematic, strategic elements in Gameplay Blizzard says they wanna make the best games ever, we as a community want SC2 to be the best game ever, we've tolled all our friends about SC2, we watch tournaments, support sponsors and teams, and like Destiny said, the ball is in Blizzards court now. We are still in early beta, I'm optimistic that there is more at work then just multiplayer balance testing at this time. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On October 18 2012 01:09 Basique wrote: You didn't understand anything at all, and you are not the only one. NOWHERE it was state that there was a need for a casualized gameplay. Destiny talked about what is outside the game, so the lobby, the UI, the interface. Nor did you seem to understand my post. I was not saying that Destiny suggests the game should be easier. I am saying that a whole bunch of the people who are going "oooh aaaah! He is right!" Think that is what he is saying and that THEY see the solution as the game being more appealing to casuals. | ||
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Lt.Roosevelt
Sweden84 Posts
It would probably help if sc2 was f2p, but I don't really think it would change much when it comes to the overall playerbase although it might introduce a few more players that quit rather soon, but keep watching tournaments so in that respect maybe it would be positive. When it comes to watching HotS I dunno what to say, I have watched a couple of streams of it just because I wanted to get a glimpse of what might be coming, but generally what I want is to watch is the patch that is in competitions. I can't wait for HotS to be used in tournaments I really can't, but I am not really interested in watching people play it right now when every new patch changes everything and it isn't played in tournaments either. | ||
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Copymizer
Denmark2099 Posts
No chat channels, you felt alone and bored. I then started trying to follow bw and i bought the game and after 1-2 hours it's just so much more fun and so much better game than sc2. Blizzard has failed big big time compared to what their old battle.net idealogies were and now well i barely touch sc2 anymore. Why should i play ranked to get stomped in silver or anything i play for nothing it's boring. There's nothing it play for and after 2 years i have absolutely no hope or hype for Hots, im not gonna give blizzard money for these poorly designed games. I play bw more these days than sc2. | ||
HeavenResign
United States702 Posts
And there's a LOT they need to do to maintain the current SC2 ladder - but it's not making the game easier and dumbing it down. It's being more involved in community map-making and making the ladder system more transparent. On the custom/UI side, there's obviously a ton of work they have to do. And yeah, a lot of that work would probably keep casuals playing, that I do agree with. Everyone in this thread agrees that SC2 is dying but I must've read fifteen different reasons why in this thread, many of them contradicting the others. Also anyone that played BW seriously thought WC3 was a joke. And I like WC3 as much as the next guy (I think it's far from a joke), but if you think BW and WC3 are on the same level as an RTS, yet SC2 is in every way inferior, you don't know what you're talking about. On the flip side, avid WC3 players thought it was a better game than Brood War. It's all just bias and nostalgia. http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/16654-Transparency_or_why_StarCraft_owns_Warcraft_3 ^^^written by Carmac, and largely everyone agreed with it on TL. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=69576 There's a bunch of threads you can look up where respected members of the current SC2 community are shitting on WC3 as a game. And the point of this isn't to diss WC3 - it's that people ought to be self-aware of their own biases when they think SC2 as an RTS is inferior to WC3, because everyone thought that way about WC3 for a long time (and the competitive BW players that went from BW --> SC2 most likely still think that way). | ||
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algue
France1436 Posts
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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Sankanyo
United States140 Posts
On the competitive level, I think we should incorporate A LOT more maps for a more fun spectating experience. On GSL, where the loser gets to pick the next map, it has become the same maps over and over again to the point that we seen the same games being played out (same builds same execution, same result) by different players. Taking a look at BW, we have so much variety of maps and each map has special characteristics that are tailored for different builds. And I think if we have that, then spectating the game wouldnt be as dull and boring as it is moving towards ATM. In terms of focusing on the casual gamers, I agree with everything Destiny says. We need to focus on casual gaming and have people just WANT to get on to play instead of having anxiety on the ladder. I think their unranked ladder feature for HOTS is a pretty good idea, but I also think that the blizzard should focus on the custom games more. | ||
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