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Good article.
I feel the major reasons for this Starcraft stagnation are:
a. Blizzard completely fucking up balancing for a great deal of Wings of Liberty's "life". (Infestors, Ghosts, 4gates, stim-timings etc etc) Some people just had enough and quit to LoL etc. I am sure EVERYBODY in these forums knows at least 3-4 people who quit SC2 out of frustration.
b. Blizzard blatantly not knowing what they 're doing in the beta. (Widow mine improvement was after somebody here on TL.net and on the Battle.net forums suggested a fix, to which Browder replied and liked. This to me shows that these people haven't got a clue.)
c. Oversaturation of tournaments. This to me is a huge deal. There are simply too many tournaments and for that reason the prestige of winning one is significantly reduced. Only one that holds value in my opinion is GSL Code-S. Dreamhack, MLG, Iron Squid, sorry but those mean nothing, yes and TLS included. There are just way too many tournaments and people simply can't keep up with it. Just look at the Tournament section here on TL.net. Way too many.
d. Absolutely god-awful maps during the first year of SC2s' life. Who actually expects a newcomer to have the patience to sit through X-amount of games playing on Steppes of War, Desert Oasis, Blistering Sands etc? LOL
Metalopolis was actually considered to be the best map for at least a year! xDDD
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Destiny's right about this. I play even Warcraft 3 custom dota games more often than SCII or SCII arcade games just because it has a sense of "community" and non-competitiveness. I recognize players every night that are "good" at the game, and build some sort of friendship-rivalry things, and play with moderators of custom game bots and pwn noobs.
SCII there is not much a sense of that anymore. When I used to play zealot frenzy mostly, I made a few friends-rivals in the process because it had a community site outside of SCII. However, for other games like TD or adventure RPG types of game that just sheer time-grind turn me off, and there's very little sense of communal interactions.
Basically arcade structure made an hierarchy of games based on popularity, i.e. are they on the front page or not. Instead of supporting small-new growing custom game scenes, arcade pretty much killed it hard. And the awkwardness of public chat system as well.
So now I'm just relegated to watching mainly Husky and Day[9] because casters interact with the audience, and form a pseudo-community of people who follow their casts in tourney/etc. But if people do not find enjoyment in watching pro-games casted, I would say many people abandoned the SCII altogether after few attempts on the ladder, and few weeks on the arcade.
It's up to Blizzard to grow the custom game scene by changing the arcade system by retrogression to old school format, name change, clan support, and other stuff Destiny put up in op. When more people play some sort of custom-SCII games, more will pay attention to the professional tourneys, only then the esport market for SCII can grow.
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On October 17 2012 16:37 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 16:35 enemy2010 wrote:On October 17 2012 16:25 Sea_Food wrote:On October 17 2012 16:19 enemy2010 wrote:
I remember a thread some months ago where a guy made the following suggestion:
Form a team of pro-gamers, that sits down to develop new maps and new game modes with implementing the nerfs and buffs for the units according to the current state of the game and the community demands.
Lets do our own version of SC2. An SC2 how we want it. Lets use the game and the platform and the infrastructure that Blizzard gave us and develope according to our preferences.
Why don't we do that? Why don't we get our own hands on this mess and start tidying up?
Sure, and the end it's Blizzards game. But we give them all the support they want, we'd LOVE (do I really say that?) to pay for awesome features like name change or awesome maps or fancy stuff. So you are saying pro gamers of all people should take their practice/free time to develop the game they payed blizzard to do? After that people can keep hosting tournaments for a community made game while paying HUGE royalties to blizzard, and still using Bnet2.0 as the base of the game. I dont think I have ever heard of a worse suggestion. Well, at least it would be a start and not sitting around crying over Blizzard's fatigue. How long did we wait for chatrooms to be implemented? If the community starts to act by its own, maybe Blizzard finally see the seriousness on this topic. What do you know? BW community acted on it's own before and look what happened. Only now Blizzard has put more restrictions on us especially when it comes to third party programs.
You mean, BW community acted on it's own and it failed?
And where do all of these OMG SO AWESOME casual maps and UMS maps come from?
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On October 17 2012 16:42 larse wrote:To address one of the problems that Destiny pointed out in his post, I propose a new ladder system that presumably will be fun for the more casual players and still good for the hardcores and pros. If you have more better ideas, please help to develop this. Also, sorry about the poor English. As Destiny said, one thing that prevents more people from playing SC2 is that the ladder is most a place of frustration for the casuals and there are no progressive rewards for the players. To address this, the new system tries to make playing ladder games to have a feeling of progression and reward even when you lost. The new system is as the following: 1. Add "Ladder Experience" and "Ladder Credits" in addition to the existing "Ladder Points" 2. "Ladder Points" is the same as the current one with MMR and Bonus points and all that, so hardcores and pros are not effected at all. 3. You earn "Ladder Experience" and can level up by playing ladder games. You will get the same amount of "Ladder Experience" and progress to higher levels regardless of win or loss. 4. You earn "Ladder Credits" regardless of win or loss. You earn more credits when winning and earn less when losing. But you don't lose credits (you lose them by purchasing in-game goods) 5. Add 5 tiers of in-game goods 6. Some of the essential goods of each tier are unlocked automatically when you are up to certain level. Other more good-looking goods can be purchased by using Ladder Credits 7. The 5 tiers of in-game goods that rank from lower to higher-tier are: ----(1) Color change of the skins for units and structures ----(2) Special skins for units and structures ----(3) New models for units and structures (such as NOVA as ghost or Zeratual as DT) ----(4) New visual effects of attack projectiles and spells ----(5) New dance animation ----(6) New in-game unit portraits (or something funny that can be added to the existing unit portraits like Zealot with a !@#$ing HAT  8. Higher-tier goods and better-looking goods require higher "Ladder Experience" or more "Ladder Credits" than lower-tier ones. 9. Add more New portraits that are animated that can be unlocked by using Ladder Experience or Ladder Credits 10. "Ladder Experience" and "Ladder Credits" are a prominent part in your profile that people can show off like the ladder leagues. 11. Though controversial, maybe add a system of AH and RMAH that can trade Credits like D3 Gold. (I know it could be bad)
Would anyone actually think of this as fun?
I for one would HATE alt-skins on units, it would mess up so much.
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On October 17 2012 16:35 enemy2010 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 16:25 Sea_Food wrote:On October 17 2012 16:19 enemy2010 wrote:
I remember a thread some months ago where a guy made the following suggestion:
Form a team of pro-gamers, that sits down to develop new maps and new game modes with implementing the nerfs and buffs for the units according to the current state of the game and the community demands.
Lets do our own version of SC2. An SC2 how we want it. Lets use the game and the platform and the infrastructure that Blizzard gave us and develope according to our preferences.
Why don't we do that? Why don't we get our own hands on this mess and start tidying up?
Sure, and the end it's Blizzards game. But we give them all the support they want, we'd LOVE (do I really say that?) to pay for awesome features like name change or awesome maps or fancy stuff. So you are saying pro gamers of all people should take their practice/free time to develop the game they payed blizzard to do? After that people can keep hosting tournaments for a community made game while paying HUGE royalties to blizzard, and still using Bnet2.0 as the base of the game. I dont think I have ever heard of a worse suggestion. Well, at least it would be a start and not sitting around crying over Blizzard's fatigue. How long did we wait for chatrooms to be implemented? If the community starts to act by its own, maybe Blizzard finally see the seriousness on this topic.
its not progamers who should do it, progamers have to practice 12 hours to have a chance in tournaments or they wont have money to eat
people making maps like GSL ones are not progamers, they are gsl employees and/or affiliated to a team, like the prime guy i cant remember the name, in broodwar there also were people doing maps and making the game balanced without even touching stats
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On October 17 2012 16:19 enemy2010 wrote:
I remember a thread some months ago where a guy made the following suggestion:
Form a team of pro-gamers, that sits down to develop new maps and new game modes with implementing the nerfs and buffs for the units according to the current state of the game and the community demands.
Lets do our own version of SC2. An SC2 how we want it. Lets use the game and the platform and the infrastructure that Blizzard gave us and develope according to our preferences.
Why don't we do that? Why don't we get our own hands on this mess and start tidying up?
Sure, and the end it's Blizzards game. But we give them all the support they want, we'd LOVE (do I really say that?) to pay for awesome features like name change or awesome maps or fancy stuff.
Why would anyone be willing to work for free?
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On October 17 2012 16:20 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 15:53 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 17 2012 15:46 StarStruck wrote:On October 17 2012 15:40 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 17 2012 15:35 StarStruck wrote:On October 17 2012 15:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 17 2012 15:08 HaruRH wrote:On October 17 2012 14:58 Kambing wrote:On October 17 2012 14:54 Orracle wrote:On October 17 2012 14:49 AndAgain wrote:
I think Destiny doesn't understand the concept of markets. There are games that suit casual players like LoL, and there are games that suit competitive players like SC2. Just because LoL may be more popular doesn't mean there's anything wrong with SC2 being competitive.
It's like how fast food joints are way more popular than steakhouses. That doesn't mean steakhouses should be more like fast food joints. Ruth's Chris Steakhouse or McDonald's both have one thing in common, they're constantly expanding. There is always a market for their products. Why would pros continue playing SC2 if there is no market? They can transfer to LOL or Dota where there is going to be a lot of money. Eh. By that same logic, why don't all the Major League Soccer players transfer over to the NFL since the NFL is far more successful than MLS? 1. Their talents and skills don't translate well enough to football, or 2. They like soccer more than football. But skills from sc2 do translate to LoL/dota. Examples are plentiful, eg: iceiceice (dominated sc2 SEA ladder, now dominates dota 2), fruitdealer (went to LoL), etc LoL,and dota managed to siphon players from sc2 to them, but sc2 isnt able to attract players from LoL and dota to them. and Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez were both basketball players in college who now play in the NFL. Also a lot of the sc2 players who went to LoL, fell on in sc2 like Fruitdealer and Rainbow. And there is still a ton of money in sc2. Guess which game has given out more money than any other? SC2. http://www.esportsearnings.com/gamesIn its 2 years of existence its paid out a million dollars more than the holy grail that is BW. LoL has paid out 3.4 mil. 2 million was just paid out this past weekend in ONE tournament. All paid by Riot too. Dota has also paid out 3.4 mil, 3.2 mil is from the TWO Internationals. Such a large percentage of both games money has come from a total of 3 tournaments. Thats not healthy. Arguably the second biggest Dota 2 tournament (outside of China) is happening this weekend, StarLadder 3. Quantic and EG aren't even sending their teams which qualified because its not even worth it. How often does that happen for EG in sc2? They send people everywhere all the time. Yet they won't send their Dota team to one of the biggest tournaments because its not worth it. I love Dota 2, i find it to be a fantastic game. But its not near the size of SC2 right now. They have a LOOOONG way to go still. Complaints that $100,000 prize pools haven't raised are ridiculous as well. Its a one hundred fucking grand! Thats a lot of money. MLG tournaments pay out more in sc2 than they do LoL. DH Valencia actually paid out more in sc2 than it did in LoL, Dota 2 and CS GO combined. That's a crock and you know it because we didn't have the sponsorships we did back then and there's so much tournaments going on that what the hell you think? Whereas a PL season would go on for an eternity and you would only have several MSLs and OSLs a year. So no. It's centralized whereas now every team, personality, sponsor, organization is hosting their own fucking tournaments. Don't even compare the two. How is it a crock? In 2 years, sc2 has given away a million dollars more than BW did in what, 14? BW had sponsorships, just not outside of Korea cause the game didn't take off outside of Korea. I don't see how saying sc2 has sponsorships and way more tournaments with a ton of different people running the tournaments is a negative against sc2? Isn't that a huge positive? Totally different situations. You cannot compare where we were 14 years ago to now. P.S. we had sponsors albeit very small ones. We had cash prizes for leagues too, albeit small ones. Everything from the technology of streaming to the economics and growth are layers buddy. It's a fool's errand. As for your last line. The growth outside of Korea has been great; however, it's foolish to think all of these organizers, sponsors and teams will remain in the scene. and yet today we actually have a foreign scene, when in BW we didnt. And its not even 14 years ago. Compare where BW was a year before sc2 came out to sc2 a year after it came out. Its not even close in comparison. the point of my post is that there is quite a bit of money in sc2. More than most people realize. And the fact that its not all coming from the developer is even more impressive. Yeah some leagues, teams and sponsors will come and go. It will be that way for sc2, LoL, and Valve. But i know if IPL gets cut off with the sale of IGN, that sc2 will still be going strong. But if Valve doesn't hold another International, or Riot realizes its time to just stop wasting money on esports, those two games are dead. Sorry if you weren't around or didn't like our scene back then. WE EXISTED. -__- Don't tell me what we did and didn't do. I was there. Dude in 2008 and all that jazz the youtubing and all that crap was still relatively fresh. Prior to that no one was streaming. We would have restreams for MSL, OSL, PL and that was about it. TSL started when gee golly. You guessed it 2008. When did guys really start streaming? 08. When was SC2 announced? WWI 2007. It's all relative. What goes around comes around. Blizzard is already wasting money on making RTS games when they could be making a ton more on other projects lmao. This has been amusing nonetheless. This wasn't my first row with you either. You and I have bunted heads several times now and I'm sure this won't be the last either considering you don't like to look at things chronologically.
I never said the BW scene didn't exist. But it was a fraction of the size of the sc2 scene. Foreign scene we are talking about here. I'm sorry that I get more excited to see Stephano, a foreigner, getting a six figure contract than I get seeing Flash getting his six figure contract. Why? Because it feels so much more real to me. It isn't just a dream. Its not just me saying, oh man I wish one day we could be like Korea and have a legit pro scene with full time players. Its fucking happening. And that is amazing to me.
I know the order in what things happened. I know sc2 wouldn't be here without BW. I know that technology has played a huge role in the growth of esports, not just sc2. But i also don't wish that this were BW and not sc2.
I find it amazing that EG and Complexity have houses for their players. I find it amazing that Stephano has won more money in sc2 this year than any other player. TL has full time employees! Slasher is writing esports coverage for gamespot. Twitch.tv, a streaming platform based on esports/gaming, is here. This is all huge growth to me. This is stuff that we wished for BW.
Yeah we aren't at Korean BW level. But we are at a level that is a hell of a lot better than foreign BW. And it is getting better.
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On October 17 2012 16:44 Psychobabas wrote:
Good article.
I feel the major reasons for this Starcraft stagnation are:
a. Blizzard completely fucking up balancing for a great deal of Wings of Liberty's "life". (Infestors, Ghosts, 4gates, stim-timings etc etc) Some people just had enough and quit to LoL etc. I am sure EVERYBODY in this forums knows at least 3-4 people who quit SC2 out of frustration.
b. Blizzard blatantly not knowing what they 're doing in the beta. (Widow mine improvement was after somebody here on TL.net and on the Battle.net forums suggested a fix, to which Browder replied and liked. This to me shows that these people haven't got a clue.)
c. Oversaturation of tournaments. This to me is a huge deal. There are simply too many tournaments and for that reason the prestige of winning one is significantly reduced. Only one that holds value in my opinion is GSL Code-S. Dreamhack, MLG, Iron Squid, sorry but those mean nothing, yes and TSL included. There are just way too many tournaments and people simply can't keep up with it. Just look at the Tournament section here on TL.net. Way too many.
d. Absolutely god-awful maps during the first year of SC2s' life. Who actually expects a newcomer to have the patience to sit through X-amount of games playing on Steppes of War, Desert Oasis, Blistering Sands etc? LOL
Metalopolis was actually considered to be the best map for at least a year! xDDD
For point b, we should be commending them for listening to the community rather than condemning them. It's shit like this that makes the community look bipolar. "Blizz doesn't listen to us." "Blizz had to use OUR ideas, they don't know what they're doing."
The other points I agree on.
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On October 17 2012 14:37 Xxio wrote:
Blizzard should have given Brood War a facelift instead of making StarCraft 2.
when i say this i get banned =(
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I absolutely agree that SC2 punishes casual players too much in the early game. BW definitely lived on because casual maps like BGH and Fastest Map Ever were much simpler for casual players, but were similar enough to the actual game so that they could appreciate watching high level games. Maps like BGH are impossible in SC2 because new mechanics such as spawn larva and force fields complicate the game too early. For these "fun maps" to exist, casual players need to be able to get away with things like massing tier 1 units in a 3v3 shitstorm. I know that's what I did during most of my time in BW and it was awesome.
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On October 17 2012 16:37 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 16:04 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 16:02 Cuce wrote:
we all know starcraft will not be as popular as mobas, which pretty much plays themselves and players just join along the ride.
I dont understand our obsession with starcraft being the most popular game our there. No it mush be the best game our there. two our completly different This. I don't see any reason why SC2 e-sports scene will be "dead" by LotV. It has a consistent viewership of 50,000+ on Twitch for big tournaments and sometimes over 100,000. They're entirely different games and cater to different audiences. If SC2 is going to die, then I guess the fighting game scene, FPS scenes, and everything else is also dead and are just zombies. on the other hand, SC2 is not likely to grow any larger. The biggest growth should be happening now, when the bw pros are coming over, excitement for the new expansion. I would say what he meant for SC2 esport scene is dead = less pro scene, less competitions, smaller prize pool. I am also disappointed of how much SC2 has grown, completely overshadowed by the BW scene in Korea
i dont think overshadowed is the word, correct me if im wrong, but the meaning would be BW was making sc2 look less than should
it really isnt BW, now BW is dead and people still dont care about sc2 in korea, its mostly sc2 (read BLIZZARD) fault
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So you're saying the reason BW was so big is because people were playing BGH a lot? Ok...
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On October 17 2012 16:52 Jerubaal wrote:
So you're saying the reason BW was so big is because people were playing BGH a lot? Ok...
That's pretty much what I did for 10 years in BW. I didnt play a ton of customs and didn't get into Iccup until season 7.
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On October 17 2012 16:35 Cuce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 16:30 Glurkenspurk wrote:On October 17 2012 16:18 Cuce wrote:On October 17 2012 15:54 Tyree wrote:
Many competitive games have ways around this, such as FPS games today that put people into teams and try to split the players in a even way. One of the reasons why Call of Duty is super popular, because even the worst player in the world can sit down, get a few kills and level up, he is rewarded despite not being very good. WoW is so easy that the only people who should struggle with it, have never played a videogame in their lives, i mean literally not a single one. LoL and DOTA like games at least allow you to have a back and forth match, there is no "cheese" to be scared of where the game ends in 4 minutes, even if you suck you still get to play, kill some guys and there you go.
Starcraft 2 just does not have that, unless you take this game seriously (which the minority does) then there is no reason to even boot the game up.
Blizzard has shown that they kinda understand the issue by removing losses seen on Bnet, but the core problem is that just finding a good "game" of SC2 is hard, you can play for 2-3 hours a night and maybe only get 1 great game that is interesting and back and forth. Yet when i play any other online game (yes EVERY other) i always get into competitive matches where i get to *play* even if i lose i still had fun, SC2 is rarely fun.
Thats because, players do not dictate how a game of lol or dota will play out. one of the biggest noob question in starcraft bw and sc2 or wc3 or anyother proper rts game is "when should I attack?" and god is it an important question. when and how to attack. Mobas do not have this question. game is already attacking on its own. players just join the action. games keeps them on pace for first 10 minutes. keeping them safe and sound with towers, giving them safety income, safety resources to no fall to behind, 3 layers of safety towers so game would not end so fast that way players would not be playing for noting for last 10 minutes and on and on. no matter how agressive you play you cant dictate how the game will play. There is too many safety to keep the game on its safe and "fun" route. there is no way to end the game in 4 min, or 10 or 15. you cant all in, you cant make huge game plans cause as players your effect on gameplay is minimal relative to rts games, where you are the gameplay. This moba aproach result as always having fun games. pretty much same game every time, but yeah I guess we can say its fun. Yet the difference is huge, you will always be playing the prearrenged fun game. when you get a fun starcraft game you know what happens, you made that fun game. some people prefer one over the other, thats why they play/watch one over the other. we always knew what majority will choose, so why do we even arguing on how sc2 lost popularity race over lol or dota. I don't think you've ever watched a game of dota in your life. You can definitely "all in" with hard early push strats, and deciding when to attack and defend is huge. I played enough dota and lol to see what can be done in dota or lol, I'm sorry.
Looks like you played at a pretty low level where people dont ever leave their lanes, gank, or even last hit properly. There are very clear all-in strats,push strats, and turtle strategies that can be done. There are frequently games both in the proscene and otherwise where games end before the twenty minute mark. This stuff is obvious even if you've played a few games of dota or watched a few games. You could even see the strats from the very start of the game from the choice of picks.
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On October 17 2012 16:48 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 16:44 Psychobabas wrote:
Good article.
I feel the major reasons for this Starcraft stagnation are:
a. Blizzard completely fucking up balancing for a great deal of Wings of Liberty's "life". (Infestors, Ghosts, 4gates, stim-timings etc etc) Some people just had enough and quit to LoL etc. I am sure EVERYBODY in this forums knows at least 3-4 people who quit SC2 out of frustration.
b. Blizzard blatantly not knowing what they 're doing in the beta. (Widow mine improvement was after somebody here on TL.net and on the Battle.net forums suggested a fix, to which Browder replied and liked. This to me shows that these people haven't got a clue.)
c. Oversaturation of tournaments. This to me is a huge deal. There are simply too many tournaments and for that reason the prestige of winning one is significantly reduced. Only one that holds value in my opinion is GSL Code-S. Dreamhack, MLG, Iron Squid, sorry but those mean nothing, yes and TSL included. There are just way too many tournaments and people simply can't keep up with it. Just look at the Tournament section here on TL.net. Way too many.
d. Absolutely god-awful maps during the first year of SC2s' life. Who actually expects a newcomer to have the patience to sit through X-amount of games playing on Steppes of War, Desert Oasis, Blistering Sands etc? LOL
Metalopolis was actually considered to be the best map for at least a year! xDDD For point b, we should be commending them for listening to the community rather than condemning them. It's shit like this that makes the community look bipolar. "Blizz doesn't listen to us." "Blizz had to use OUR ideas, they don't know what they're doing." The other points I agree on.
Yes, I suppose I would have to agree with you but on the other hand, these people are supposed to be professionals. Personally I don't mind significant changes in the beta, after all, that's what it's there for. But seen as the article points out that people just don't care about the beta (myself included) I think it is relevant to point out just what a mess it is.
There simply isn't a clear focus on what these guys are doing. Warhound + replicant withdrawn, widow mines + mothership core + oracle being revised time and time again. Lets face it, when you actually think that a unit such as the replicant is a good unit for a RTS like Starcraft, and you are a game designer/ balancer, something is seriously wrong.
I am fearful that HotS will be released in a crappy, unbalanced state which will lead to even more people quitting the game.
PS: And why on earth is Blizzard doing beta-testing on those terrible maps.....?
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On October 17 2012 16:48 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 16:19 enemy2010 wrote:
I remember a thread some months ago where a guy made the following suggestion:
Form a team of pro-gamers, that sits down to develop new maps and new game modes with implementing the nerfs and buffs for the units according to the current state of the game and the community demands.
Lets do our own version of SC2. An SC2 how we want it. Lets use the game and the platform and the infrastructure that Blizzard gave us and develope according to our preferences.
Why don't we do that? Why don't we get our own hands on this mess and start tidying up?
Sure, and the end it's Blizzards game. But we give them all the support they want, we'd LOVE (do I really say that?) to pay for awesome features like name change or awesome maps or fancy stuff. Why would anyone be willing to work for free?
To save SC2, their main source of income, from dying?
And why should they work for free?
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On October 17 2012 16:53 Myrkskog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 16:52 Jerubaal wrote:
So you're saying the reason BW was so big is because people were playing BGH a lot? Ok... That's pretty much what I did for 10 years.
Yup.
I'm also glad that someone big in the community finally said something.
The question really is whether or not SCII can survive the implosion of its esports bubble... which it will. You'll end up with fewer tourneys and maybe I can get excited over SCII. Semi-pro BW is still more dramatic.
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On October 17 2012 15:53 QuackPocketDuck wrote:
So much discussion on this lately, why not realise that team sports will always be more popular and most of the time more casual than 1v1s? The casual part brings in on the audiences, everyone can hit a football, but hitting a tennis ball is already harder..etc
its not Sc2 vs LoL vs Doda but sc2,lol,dota...
When was a team e-sport the most popular before like a few months ago?
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On October 17 2012 16:51 Akhee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 16:37 ETisME wrote:On October 17 2012 16:04 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 16:02 Cuce wrote:
we all know starcraft will not be as popular as mobas, which pretty much plays themselves and players just join along the ride.
I dont understand our obsession with starcraft being the most popular game our there. No it mush be the best game our there. two our completly different This. I don't see any reason why SC2 e-sports scene will be "dead" by LotV. It has a consistent viewership of 50,000+ on Twitch for big tournaments and sometimes over 100,000. They're entirely different games and cater to different audiences. If SC2 is going to die, then I guess the fighting game scene, FPS scenes, and everything else is also dead and are just zombies. on the other hand, SC2 is not likely to grow any larger. The biggest growth should be happening now, when the bw pros are coming over, excitement for the new expansion. I would say what he meant for SC2 esport scene is dead = less pro scene, less competitions, smaller prize pool. I am also disappointed of how much SC2 has grown, completely overshadowed by the BW scene in Korea i dont think overshadowed is the word, correct me if im wrong, but the meaning would be BW was making sc2 look less than should it really isnt BW, now BW is dead and people still dont care about sc2 in korea, its mostly sc2 (read BLIZZARD) fault
it feels to me that when I speak to my Korean friends, they tend to think SC2 as a poor imitation of the BW.
Maybe SC2 suffers from identity crisis where people were expecting it to be as great as BW but it turns out to be similar yet different and inferior game
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I don't really think Destiny understands much about marketing -_-
1. SC2 targets totally different market/player base comparing to LoL and DotA2. First off, it's different genre altogether. People who likes RTS would watch SC2 and people who like MOBA/ARTS would watch LoL or DotA2. And there will always be people who only like only one genre. Only one type of products would not satisfy the whole market or player base. Only players/viewers that they might have to compete for are those who like both genres, which would watch both most of the time if the tournaments do no severely overlap with each others.
2. It is hard SC2 to compete in number of players or viewers with DotA2 or LoL. However, that does not means the game would be dead. It just mean smaller fanbase compare to the other games. Also, we haven't even take into account what is the buying power of the players in each game. If SC2 has people who willing to pay for the tournaments product more (i.e. HD ticket, etc.), then it even makes SC2 far from dead.
3. There's no competition in RTS genre, at all. SC2 right now is the only competitive RTS game (excluding BW) in the global scene. That means it gonna still pull somewhat decent number of viewers and players.
There's a lot of things that Blizzard needs to improve (BNET UI, etc) but saying the game will be dead when LotV comes out is just very very stretching. The market right now is very oversaturation with the number of tournaments that overlap with each other so much. What will happen is more likely a trim down and weed out the weaker tournaments until it reached the balance.
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EPT
