• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:04
CET 02:04
KST 10:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced14[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Information Request Regarding Chinese Ladder SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3 Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
FlaSh's Valkyrie Copium BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Which season is the best in ASL?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1218 users

Destiny on where he thinks SC2 is heading. - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 105 Next
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
October 17 2012 07:58 GMT
#261
On October 17 2012 16:52 Jerubaal wrote:
So you're saying the reason BW was so big is because people were playing BGH a lot? Ok...


I started playing Starcraft in 1998. I didn't start playing low money 1v1 games until around 2008.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
October 17 2012 07:59 GMT
#262
On October 17 2012 16:56 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 15:53 QuackPocketDuck wrote:
So much discussion on this lately, why not realise that team sports will always be more popular and most of the time more casual than 1v1s? The casual part brings in on the audiences, everyone can hit a football, but hitting a tennis ball is already harder..etc

its not Sc2 vs LoL vs Doda but sc2,lol,dota...




When was a team e-sport the most popular before like a few months ago?


Counterstrike 1.6 is my guess.
MMA: The true King of Wings
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:01:46
October 17 2012 08:00 GMT
#263
On October 17 2012 16:58 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 16:52 Jerubaal wrote:
So you're saying the reason BW was so big is because people were playing BGH a lot? Ok...


I started playing Starcraft in 1998. I didn't start playing low money 1v1 games until around 2008.


I also started playing Brood War 4v4 hunters back in 1998. I started playing 1vs1 seriously on ladders like Iccup/PGTour around 2004.
Akhee
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil811 Posts
October 17 2012 08:01 GMT
#264
On October 17 2012 16:54 dartoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 16:35 Cuce wrote:
On October 17 2012 16:30 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On October 17 2012 16:18 Cuce wrote:
On October 17 2012 15:54 Tyree wrote:
Many competitive games have ways around this, such as FPS games today that put people into teams and try to split the players in a even way. One of the reasons why Call of Duty is super popular, because even the worst player in the world can sit down, get a few kills and level up, he is rewarded despite not being very good. WoW is so easy that the only people who should struggle with it, have never played a videogame in their lives, i mean literally not a single one. LoL and DOTA like games at least allow you to have a back and forth match, there is no "cheese" to be scared of where the game ends in 4 minutes, even if you suck you still get to play, kill some guys and there you go.

Starcraft 2 just does not have that, unless you take this game seriously (which the minority does) then there is no reason to even boot the game up.

Blizzard has shown that they kinda understand the issue by removing losses seen on Bnet, but the core problem is that just finding a good "game" of SC2 is hard, you can play for 2-3 hours a night and maybe only get 1 great game that is interesting and back and forth. Yet when i play any other online game (yes EVERY other) i always get into competitive matches where i get to *play* even if i lose i still had fun, SC2 is rarely fun.



Thats because, players do not dictate how a game of lol or dota will play out.
one of the biggest noob question in starcraft bw and sc2 or wc3 or anyother proper rts game is "when should I attack?" and god is it an important question. when and how to attack. Mobas do not have this question. game is already attacking on its own. players just join the action. games keeps them on pace for first 10 minutes. keeping them safe and sound with towers, giving them safety income, safety resources to no fall to behind, 3 layers of safety towers so game would not end so fast that way players would not be playing for noting for last 10 minutes and on and on.

no matter how agressive you play you cant dictate how the game will play. There is too many safety to keep the game on its safe and "fun" route. there is no way to end the game in 4 min, or 10 or 15. you cant all in, you cant make huge game plans cause as players your effect on gameplay is minimal relative to rts games, where you are the gameplay. This moba aproach result as always having fun games. pretty much same game every time, but yeah I guess we can say its fun.

Yet the difference is huge, you will always be playing the prearrenged fun game. when you get a fun starcraft game you know what happens, you made that fun game.

some people prefer one over the other, thats why they play/watch one over the other. we always knew what majority will choose, so why do we even arguing on how sc2 lost popularity race over lol or dota.



I don't think you've ever watched a game of dota in your life. You can definitely "all in" with hard early push strats, and deciding when to attack and defend is huge.


I played enough dota and lol to see what can be done in dota or lol, I'm sorry.


Looks like you played at a pretty low level where people dont ever leave their lanes, gank, or even last hit properly. There are very clear all-in strats,push strats, and turtle strategies that can be done. There are frequently games both in the proscene and otherwise where games end before the twenty minute mark. This stuff is obvious even if you've played a few games of dota or watched a few games. You could even see the strats from the very start of the game from the choice of picks.


everything you said is done only with a team made and in a pub you wont see it so its irrelevant

the thing is: a common game wont end before 20 minutes at all


aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
October 17 2012 08:01 GMT
#265
The game is just not good enough for people to watch for a long time.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:05:14
October 17 2012 08:04 GMT
#266
On October 17 2012 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
The game is just not good enough for people to watch for a long time.


I have a dream that one day we will be able to see epic TvP games with a massive slow mech army trying to take control of the map vs wave after wave or protoss units, Brood War style.

The deathball vs deathball aspect of SC2 is unbelievably bad game-design in my opinion and very boring for spectators.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:07:02
October 17 2012 08:05 GMT
#267
High level mappers quitting SC2 at a staggering rate and all Blizzard tells me is "Can't promise anything." Cool story Blizzard.

Also for the 10th or so time. SC2 F2P is easy to do with paid maps (competitive and UMS). CoD can sell 20 million copies of a map pack, you think people would not pay a couple bucks to have real maps in ladder or sick ass UMS? Add in some new skins/decals/whatever and make a bunch of $.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:06:33
October 17 2012 08:06 GMT
#268
+ Show Spoiler [ha] +
[image loading]
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
October 17 2012 08:06 GMT
#269
On October 17 2012 17:05 Diamond wrote:
High level mappers quitting SC2 at a staggering rate and all Blizzard tells me is "Can't promise anything." Cool story Blizzard.

Also for the 10th or so time. SC2 F2P ez pz with paid maps (competitive and UMS). CoD can sell 20 million copies of a map pack, you think people would not pay a couple bucks to have real maps in ladder or sick ass UMS? Add in some new skins/decals/whatever and make a bunch of $.



With the box price being as high as it is (+ having to buy expansions) pc gamers sure as hell wouldn't buy map packs.
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
October 17 2012 08:07 GMT
#270
On October 17 2012 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
The game is just not good enough for people to watch for a long time.


yes =(

its not as dynamic as bw anyway =(
MrCash
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1504 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:07:37
October 17 2012 08:07 GMT
#271
On October 17 2012 17:06 Sea_Food wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [ha] +
[image loading]


Clearly unbiased.
How about a blizzcon SC2 finals pic?
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
October 17 2012 08:07 GMT
#272
On October 17 2012 17:06 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 17:05 Diamond wrote:
High level mappers quitting SC2 at a staggering rate and all Blizzard tells me is "Can't promise anything." Cool story Blizzard.

Also for the 10th or so time. SC2 F2P ez pz with paid maps (competitive and UMS). CoD can sell 20 million copies of a map pack, you think people would not pay a couple bucks to have real maps in ladder or sick ass UMS? Add in some new skins/decals/whatever and make a bunch of $.



With the box price being as high as it is (+ having to buy expansions) pc gamers sure as hell wouldn't buy map packs.


That's why I included the phrase "F2P"
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Melwach
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany176 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:10:21
October 17 2012 08:07 GMT
#273
On October 17 2012 16:47 NEEDZMOAR wrote:

Would anyone actually think of this as fun?

I for one would HATE alt-skins on units, it would mess up so much.


I like the idea of ladder experience/credits and additional unlockable content.

The unlocks he presented would destroy a lot for me though. Having Novas, Mini-Raynors etc running everywhere would completely ruin the atmosphere for me.
But animated portraits, additional race soundtracks, profile backgrounds etc sound good and would motivate me.

There could be more achievements too. I loved unlocking everything in the campaign.
I hated the grinding stuff for custom/coop and stopped half way when it just became ridiculous.

These two things are pretty casual (and loved by casuals) and apeal to me too. These are things Blizzard could add to keep a broader player base interested in the game.
From the people I know who where interested in the game, there was 1 (!) who laddered besides me (around 1000 games may be below average nowadays but it still felt like a lot to us) and still plays a game every now and then. 6 or 7 just played the campaign - god knows who of them even finished it - , played maybe 20-30 ladder team games and had fun playing custom maps. After 2 months, they where gone.
And guess what? 4 of them are passionate LoL gamers. Less mentally demanding and exhausting, more fun to get into, many things to do..they're happy with it.

Sure, "I know some who.." doesn't make up for any good statistics. But I think that's a relevant problem for the growth of the scene. How HotS will fare? Who knows. I'm looking forward playing it, but I'm not overly excited. Maybe because I was just disappointed in D3 although I like all the recent changes to the game.
Maybe HotS will change SC2 in the same positive way, we'll see.
Come for the culture. Stay for the cultural decline.
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
October 17 2012 08:08 GMT
#274
On October 17 2012 17:07 Diamond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 17:06 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On October 17 2012 17:05 Diamond wrote:
High level mappers quitting SC2 at a staggering rate and all Blizzard tells me is "Can't promise anything." Cool story Blizzard.

Also for the 10th or so time. SC2 F2P ez pz with paid maps (competitive and UMS). CoD can sell 20 million copies of a map pack, you think people would not pay a couple bucks to have real maps in ladder or sick ass UMS? Add in some new skins/decals/whatever and make a bunch of $.



With the box price being as high as it is (+ having to buy expansions) pc gamers sure as hell wouldn't buy map packs.


That's why I included the phrase "F2P"


Ah, I didn't see that. Too many abbreviations at once.
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
October 17 2012 08:08 GMT
#275
On October 17 2012 16:52 Jerubaal wrote:
So you're saying the reason BW was so big is because people were playing BGH a lot? Ok...

These types of posts remind me of people who said, "why would you need chats and lobbies in Diablo3" -_-

What made Starcraft and Diablo 2 distinctive from EVERYTHING else was social aspect, thats the primo argument, it started from there and escalated in all different directions. It gave people an idea of choosing their own gameplay. I bought a game and i can play it however i want. If i want to go pro i can ladder, go tournaments, or i can simply spend my whole day BGHing, FFA, teamplay.

You cannot even understand how big of a WTF moment i had when i opened SC2 battle net. Slap in a face, 2010 year and i bought a cat in a bag, from BLIZZARD a company that made gamers dream come true, well used to.
Stork[gm]
Joedaddy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1948 Posts
October 17 2012 08:08 GMT
#276
/agree with Destiny (hell just froze over I think). I personally love SC2 and the idea of e-sports, but I don't think this game has a snowball's chance in hell of being the catalyst I (we) want it to be. Its felt like a dying game for months now
I might be the minority on TL, but TL is the minority everywhere else.
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
October 17 2012 08:09 GMT
#277
Destiny can think/say what he wants....but only time will tell if SC2 is truly going to die or not...

So pessimistic...
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
Sakray
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
France2198 Posts
October 17 2012 08:09 GMT
#278
It's not like SC2 is only 2 years old.
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
October 17 2012 08:10 GMT
#279
On October 17 2012 17:09 Sakray wrote:
It's not like SC2 is only 2 years old.


And League of Legends is older than sc2 but it's STILL growing a ton.
Akhee
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil811 Posts
October 17 2012 08:11 GMT
#280
On October 17 2012 17:09 dynwar7 wrote:
Destiny can think/say what he wants....but only time will tell if SC2 is truly going to die or not...

So pessimistic...


it already started to die, viewer number has never been so bad, no real way to come back from that even when kespa + hots is coming.... why dont you believe its dying?
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 105 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft449
elazer 257
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4070
Artosis 835
Bale 12
Dota 2
syndereN828
Other Games
summit1g19642
Grubby3871
Maynarde111
Mew2King96
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2188
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH113
• Hupsaiya 66
• davetesta39
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 8
• Pr0nogo 7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22266
• Ler61
League of Legends
• Doublelift5676
Other Games
• Scarra1471
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 57m
Wardi Open
10h 57m
Monday Night Weeklies
15h 57m
StarCraft2.fi
15h 57m
Replay Cast
22h 57m
Wardi Open
1d 10h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 15h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 23h
Wardi Open
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
SC Evo League
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
BSL 21
6 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-28
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
Light HT
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.