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Destiny on where he thinks SC2 is heading. - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
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GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
October 17 2012 07:58 GMT
#261
On October 17 2012 16:52 Jerubaal wrote:
So you're saying the reason BW was so big is because people were playing BGH a lot? Ok...


I started playing Starcraft in 1998. I didn't start playing low money 1v1 games until around 2008.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
October 17 2012 07:59 GMT
#262
On October 17 2012 16:56 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 15:53 QuackPocketDuck wrote:
So much discussion on this lately, why not realise that team sports will always be more popular and most of the time more casual than 1v1s? The casual part brings in on the audiences, everyone can hit a football, but hitting a tennis ball is already harder..etc

its not Sc2 vs LoL vs Doda but sc2,lol,dota...




When was a team e-sport the most popular before like a few months ago?


Counterstrike 1.6 is my guess.
MMA: The true King of Wings
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:01:46
October 17 2012 08:00 GMT
#263
On October 17 2012 16:58 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 16:52 Jerubaal wrote:
So you're saying the reason BW was so big is because people were playing BGH a lot? Ok...


I started playing Starcraft in 1998. I didn't start playing low money 1v1 games until around 2008.


I also started playing Brood War 4v4 hunters back in 1998. I started playing 1vs1 seriously on ladders like Iccup/PGTour around 2004.
Akhee
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil811 Posts
October 17 2012 08:01 GMT
#264
On October 17 2012 16:54 dartoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 16:35 Cuce wrote:
On October 17 2012 16:30 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On October 17 2012 16:18 Cuce wrote:
On October 17 2012 15:54 Tyree wrote:
Many competitive games have ways around this, such as FPS games today that put people into teams and try to split the players in a even way. One of the reasons why Call of Duty is super popular, because even the worst player in the world can sit down, get a few kills and level up, he is rewarded despite not being very good. WoW is so easy that the only people who should struggle with it, have never played a videogame in their lives, i mean literally not a single one. LoL and DOTA like games at least allow you to have a back and forth match, there is no "cheese" to be scared of where the game ends in 4 minutes, even if you suck you still get to play, kill some guys and there you go.

Starcraft 2 just does not have that, unless you take this game seriously (which the minority does) then there is no reason to even boot the game up.

Blizzard has shown that they kinda understand the issue by removing losses seen on Bnet, but the core problem is that just finding a good "game" of SC2 is hard, you can play for 2-3 hours a night and maybe only get 1 great game that is interesting and back and forth. Yet when i play any other online game (yes EVERY other) i always get into competitive matches where i get to *play* even if i lose i still had fun, SC2 is rarely fun.



Thats because, players do not dictate how a game of lol or dota will play out.
one of the biggest noob question in starcraft bw and sc2 or wc3 or anyother proper rts game is "when should I attack?" and god is it an important question. when and how to attack. Mobas do not have this question. game is already attacking on its own. players just join the action. games keeps them on pace for first 10 minutes. keeping them safe and sound with towers, giving them safety income, safety resources to no fall to behind, 3 layers of safety towers so game would not end so fast that way players would not be playing for noting for last 10 minutes and on and on.

no matter how agressive you play you cant dictate how the game will play. There is too many safety to keep the game on its safe and "fun" route. there is no way to end the game in 4 min, or 10 or 15. you cant all in, you cant make huge game plans cause as players your effect on gameplay is minimal relative to rts games, where you are the gameplay. This moba aproach result as always having fun games. pretty much same game every time, but yeah I guess we can say its fun.

Yet the difference is huge, you will always be playing the prearrenged fun game. when you get a fun starcraft game you know what happens, you made that fun game.

some people prefer one over the other, thats why they play/watch one over the other. we always knew what majority will choose, so why do we even arguing on how sc2 lost popularity race over lol or dota.



I don't think you've ever watched a game of dota in your life. You can definitely "all in" with hard early push strats, and deciding when to attack and defend is huge.


I played enough dota and lol to see what can be done in dota or lol, I'm sorry.


Looks like you played at a pretty low level where people dont ever leave their lanes, gank, or even last hit properly. There are very clear all-in strats,push strats, and turtle strategies that can be done. There are frequently games both in the proscene and otherwise where games end before the twenty minute mark. This stuff is obvious even if you've played a few games of dota or watched a few games. You could even see the strats from the very start of the game from the choice of picks.


everything you said is done only with a team made and in a pub you wont see it so its irrelevant

the thing is: a common game wont end before 20 minutes at all


aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
October 17 2012 08:01 GMT
#265
The game is just not good enough for people to watch for a long time.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:05:14
October 17 2012 08:04 GMT
#266
On October 17 2012 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
The game is just not good enough for people to watch for a long time.


I have a dream that one day we will be able to see epic TvP games with a massive slow mech army trying to take control of the map vs wave after wave or protoss units, Brood War style.

The deathball vs deathball aspect of SC2 is unbelievably bad game-design in my opinion and very boring for spectators.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:07:02
October 17 2012 08:05 GMT
#267
High level mappers quitting SC2 at a staggering rate and all Blizzard tells me is "Can't promise anything." Cool story Blizzard.

Also for the 10th or so time. SC2 F2P is easy to do with paid maps (competitive and UMS). CoD can sell 20 million copies of a map pack, you think people would not pay a couple bucks to have real maps in ladder or sick ass UMS? Add in some new skins/decals/whatever and make a bunch of $.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:06:33
October 17 2012 08:06 GMT
#268
+ Show Spoiler [ha] +
[image loading]
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
October 17 2012 08:06 GMT
#269
On October 17 2012 17:05 Diamond wrote:
High level mappers quitting SC2 at a staggering rate and all Blizzard tells me is "Can't promise anything." Cool story Blizzard.

Also for the 10th or so time. SC2 F2P ez pz with paid maps (competitive and UMS). CoD can sell 20 million copies of a map pack, you think people would not pay a couple bucks to have real maps in ladder or sick ass UMS? Add in some new skins/decals/whatever and make a bunch of $.



With the box price being as high as it is (+ having to buy expansions) pc gamers sure as hell wouldn't buy map packs.
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
October 17 2012 08:07 GMT
#270
On October 17 2012 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
The game is just not good enough for people to watch for a long time.


yes =(

its not as dynamic as bw anyway =(
MrCash
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1504 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:07:37
October 17 2012 08:07 GMT
#271
On October 17 2012 17:06 Sea_Food wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [ha] +
[image loading]


Clearly unbiased.
How about a blizzcon SC2 finals pic?
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
October 17 2012 08:07 GMT
#272
On October 17 2012 17:06 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 17:05 Diamond wrote:
High level mappers quitting SC2 at a staggering rate and all Blizzard tells me is "Can't promise anything." Cool story Blizzard.

Also for the 10th or so time. SC2 F2P ez pz with paid maps (competitive and UMS). CoD can sell 20 million copies of a map pack, you think people would not pay a couple bucks to have real maps in ladder or sick ass UMS? Add in some new skins/decals/whatever and make a bunch of $.



With the box price being as high as it is (+ having to buy expansions) pc gamers sure as hell wouldn't buy map packs.


That's why I included the phrase "F2P"
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Melwach
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany176 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 08:10:21
October 17 2012 08:07 GMT
#273
On October 17 2012 16:47 NEEDZMOAR wrote:

Would anyone actually think of this as fun?

I for one would HATE alt-skins on units, it would mess up so much.


I like the idea of ladder experience/credits and additional unlockable content.

The unlocks he presented would destroy a lot for me though. Having Novas, Mini-Raynors etc running everywhere would completely ruin the atmosphere for me.
But animated portraits, additional race soundtracks, profile backgrounds etc sound good and would motivate me.

There could be more achievements too. I loved unlocking everything in the campaign.
I hated the grinding stuff for custom/coop and stopped half way when it just became ridiculous.

These two things are pretty casual (and loved by casuals) and apeal to me too. These are things Blizzard could add to keep a broader player base interested in the game.
From the people I know who where interested in the game, there was 1 (!) who laddered besides me (around 1000 games may be below average nowadays but it still felt like a lot to us) and still plays a game every now and then. 6 or 7 just played the campaign - god knows who of them even finished it - , played maybe 20-30 ladder team games and had fun playing custom maps. After 2 months, they where gone.
And guess what? 4 of them are passionate LoL gamers. Less mentally demanding and exhausting, more fun to get into, many things to do..they're happy with it.

Sure, "I know some who.." doesn't make up for any good statistics. But I think that's a relevant problem for the growth of the scene. How HotS will fare? Who knows. I'm looking forward playing it, but I'm not overly excited. Maybe because I was just disappointed in D3 although I like all the recent changes to the game.
Maybe HotS will change SC2 in the same positive way, we'll see.
Come for the culture. Stay for the cultural decline.
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
October 17 2012 08:08 GMT
#274
On October 17 2012 17:07 Diamond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 17:06 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On October 17 2012 17:05 Diamond wrote:
High level mappers quitting SC2 at a staggering rate and all Blizzard tells me is "Can't promise anything." Cool story Blizzard.

Also for the 10th or so time. SC2 F2P ez pz with paid maps (competitive and UMS). CoD can sell 20 million copies of a map pack, you think people would not pay a couple bucks to have real maps in ladder or sick ass UMS? Add in some new skins/decals/whatever and make a bunch of $.



With the box price being as high as it is (+ having to buy expansions) pc gamers sure as hell wouldn't buy map packs.


That's why I included the phrase "F2P"


Ah, I didn't see that. Too many abbreviations at once.
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
October 17 2012 08:08 GMT
#275
On October 17 2012 16:52 Jerubaal wrote:
So you're saying the reason BW was so big is because people were playing BGH a lot? Ok...

These types of posts remind me of people who said, "why would you need chats and lobbies in Diablo3" -_-

What made Starcraft and Diablo 2 distinctive from EVERYTHING else was social aspect, thats the primo argument, it started from there and escalated in all different directions. It gave people an idea of choosing their own gameplay. I bought a game and i can play it however i want. If i want to go pro i can ladder, go tournaments, or i can simply spend my whole day BGHing, FFA, teamplay.

You cannot even understand how big of a WTF moment i had when i opened SC2 battle net. Slap in a face, 2010 year and i bought a cat in a bag, from BLIZZARD a company that made gamers dream come true, well used to.
Stork[gm]
Joedaddy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1948 Posts
October 17 2012 08:08 GMT
#276
/agree with Destiny (hell just froze over I think). I personally love SC2 and the idea of e-sports, but I don't think this game has a snowball's chance in hell of being the catalyst I (we) want it to be. Its felt like a dying game for months now
I might be the minority on TL, but TL is the minority everywhere else.
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
October 17 2012 08:09 GMT
#277
Destiny can think/say what he wants....but only time will tell if SC2 is truly going to die or not...

So pessimistic...
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
Sakray
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
France2198 Posts
October 17 2012 08:09 GMT
#278
It's not like SC2 is only 2 years old.
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
October 17 2012 08:10 GMT
#279
On October 17 2012 17:09 Sakray wrote:
It's not like SC2 is only 2 years old.


And League of Legends is older than sc2 but it's STILL growing a ton.
Akhee
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil811 Posts
October 17 2012 08:11 GMT
#280
On October 17 2012 17:09 dynwar7 wrote:
Destiny can think/say what he wants....but only time will tell if SC2 is truly going to die or not...

So pessimistic...


it already started to die, viewer number has never been so bad, no real way to come back from that even when kespa + hots is coming.... why dont you believe its dying?
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