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Where is the big combined Teamleague? - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
October 08 2012 14:16 GMT
#21
SC2 is not really a team game though. It is an individual thing. Players prioritise GSL and other individual tournaments over team-leagues. The only way you can get them to prioritise a team-league would be to incentivise them with appearance money. Also I suspect Kespa will try and set up a seperate SC2 domestic scene to try and diminish GOM and GSL's importance.
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
October 08 2012 14:32 GMT
#22
On October 08 2012 23:16 revel8 wrote:
SC2 is not really a team game though. It is an individual thing. Players prioritise GSL and other individual tournaments over team-leagues. The only way you can get them to prioritise a team-league would be to incentivise them with appearance money. Also I suspect Kespa will try and set up a seperate SC2 domestic scene to try and diminish GOM and GSL's importance.


The amazing thing about proleague was that it was able to create such a prestigious climate that players would practice for it above and beyond individual leagues. And that was with a negligible prize pool! Basically that's what made BW such a huge deal, because people could follow teams and not just players. The game itself is played individually, but the excitement was in the team aspect (like, if your star player failed, and then suddenly one of your slumping players performs amazingly and gives your ace a chance to redeem himself in the ace match).

I think this is the future. Unfortunately, I also things many teams will be sacrificed to reach this. I see a solid 6 surviving in KeSPA (SKT, KT, CJ, KHAN, STX, Stars - sorry T8 fans) and 4 in GSL/ESF (IM, ST, MVP, TSL - sorry Slayers fans)
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
Zer atai
Profile Joined September 2011
United States691 Posts
October 08 2012 14:51 GMT
#23
I totally agree. I would love to see this happen!!!!!! I would totally buy a season pass for it
Want to sport eSports? Disable adblock. P.S. En Taro Adun!!
Evangelist
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
1246 Posts
October 08 2012 14:56 GMT
#24
Best way to make a Champions Team League work is to take the top 4 from each side and have them play off in a tournament. That'd be great, I think.
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
October 08 2012 15:10 GMT
#25
On October 08 2012 21:25 X3GoldDot wrote:
would create way too many teams thus way too many matches which takes up massive amounts of time imho, they should make qualifiers then a 10 or 12 team bracket if it were to merge


You don´t NEED to see every game.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
ShroudeD
Profile Joined August 2012
Greece1333 Posts
October 08 2012 15:25 GMT
#26
I would love to see the teamleagues merged but 16 teams in a PL format wouldn't work(imagine how many months it will take)And while the GSTL format is good and not time-consuming the KeSPA fans would be majorly disappointed and KeSPA absolutely doesn't want that to happen.
Mvp,Fantasy 4ever
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-08 15:27:28
October 08 2012 15:26 GMT
#27
On October 08 2012 23:32 Caladbolg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2012 23:16 revel8 wrote:
SC2 is not really a team game though. It is an individual thing. Players prioritise GSL and other individual tournaments over team-leagues. The only way you can get them to prioritise a team-league would be to incentivise them with appearance money. Also I suspect Kespa will try and set up a seperate SC2 domestic scene to try and diminish GOM and GSL's importance.


The amazing thing about proleague was that it was able to create such a prestigious climate that players would practice for it above and beyond individual leagues. And that was with a negligible prize pool! Basically that's what made BW such a huge deal, because people could follow teams and not just players. The game itself is played individually, but the excitement was in the team aspect (like, if your star player failed, and then suddenly one of your slumping players performs amazingly and gives your ace a chance to redeem himself in the ace match).

I think this is the future. Unfortunately, I also things many teams will be sacrificed to reach this. I see a solid 6 surviving in KeSPA (SKT, KT, CJ, KHAN, STX, Stars - sorry T8 fans) and 4 in GSL/ESF (IM, ST, MVP, TSL - sorry Slayers fans)


Well I am not the person to talk about BW, however I think that the KESPA players were paid salary (at least the top players) so the actual prize money was not required as such. Kespa considers itself a bigger player than GOM, so I cannot see a situation where they will accept the status quo in SC2, where GSL is the number 1 SC2 tournament in Korea. GSL is what players want to win, Code S is where players want to qualify for and GSL is the tournament where Domestic and Foreign fans pay money to watch. Where does this leave Kespa SC2 tournaments? In the shade of GSL as it currently stands. I cannot see Kespa being happy to see GOM get all the prestige and attention that they get from GSL.

I really think that Kespa will setup a rival tournament to GSL, maybe a revamped OSL or something new to compete. Kespa players will not play in GSL next year and only play in Kespa tournaments and possible a Foreign Tournament or two. The Korean domestic scene will be split in two. This is what I predict will happen once the Kespa pros are on par with eSF players. They seem to be getting there already, at least for some Kespa players. If this is indeed Kespa's aims for next year, then I cannot see a combined team-league occuring. I think a major factor in deciding the future of Korean SC2 scene is whether Kespa has managed to bring over the BW fans domestically to follow them in SC2. I don't know the viewing figues post transition, so cannot really see whether the Kespa model is sustainable or not in SC2. If it is, then I predict a split scene next year. This is just my speculation, so my fears may turn out unfounded.
MrMotionPicture
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4327 Posts
October 08 2012 15:28 GMT
#28
I think it would be incredibly entertaining to see that many teams play. Why would it matter if it takes longer? Fantasy proleague!
"Elvis Presley" | Ret was looking at my post in the GSL video by Artosis. | MMA told me I look like Juanfran while we shared an elevator with Scarlett
IMLyte
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada714 Posts
October 08 2012 15:28 GMT
#29
They should do it like NBA conference style. Champions of Proleague play Champions of GSTL at the end of each respective season.
I'ma show you how great I am ~ Muhammed Ali
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
October 08 2012 15:34 GMT
#30
There is too many individual tournaments that the player's prioritizes for that to be viable. Some like an IPL TAC-format however might work out
EZ4ENCE
MyFirstProbe
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands294 Posts
October 08 2012 15:38 GMT
#31
I like the idea, also because a 7-team proleague would be horrible to follow.
supernovamaniac
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States3047 Posts
October 08 2012 15:42 GMT
#32
Given what's happening (from few sources), they might need to do joint team league or one side might not have enough teams.
ppp
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-08 16:05:05
October 08 2012 15:48 GMT
#33
On October 08 2012 23:32 Caladbolg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2012 23:16 revel8 wrote:
SC2 is not really a team game though. It is an individual thing. Players prioritise GSL and other individual tournaments over team-leagues. The only way you can get them to prioritise a team-league would be to incentivise them with appearance money. Also I suspect Kespa will try and set up a seperate SC2 domestic scene to try and diminish GOM and GSL's importance.


The amazing thing about proleague was that it was able to create such a prestigious climate that players would practice for it above and beyond individual leagues. And that was with a negligible prize pool! Basically that's what made BW such a huge deal, because people could follow teams and not just players. The game itself is played individually, but the excitement was in the team aspect (like, if your star player failed, and then suddenly one of your slumping players performs amazingly and gives your ace a chance to redeem himself in the ace match).

I think this is the future. Unfortunately, I also things many teams will be sacrificed to reach this. I see a solid 6 surviving in KeSPA (SKT, KT, CJ, KHAN, STX, Stars - sorry T8 fans) and 4 in GSL/ESF (IM, ST, MVP, TSL - sorry Slayers fans)


Like someone pointed out earlier, the actual prize pool is fairly small compare to the salary some of these top players make. And I would think the salary is dependent a lot on team league performance as well. So it is not surprising some players focused on team leagues over individual leagues. Not saying that they are selfish or anything like that, but we cannot ignore this factor when discussing difference between PL and GSTL.

I think some foreign fans might not like a joint league. Because it will at least be just as long and involve as many games as PL (Kespa/sponsors won't settle for anything less and they shouldn't since korea is still their main target audience). So we are looking like 3-3.5 months with most teams playing each weekend. Which means a lot of conflict with foreign tournaments. And since I don't see Kespa players choosing to play in foreigners events over PL, we get 2 scenarios

1) Some eSF players still come to foreign events and skip the team league. So say STX beats MVP (but Keen/DRG is at MLG). There will be questions as to whether it is a 'legit' win.

2) eSF don't come to foreign events during the 'season'

Neither seem to be too appealing. Maybe they can schedule around the 'big' tournaments (which GSTL tries to do). But I am not sure you can schedule around MLG, IPL, Dreamhack, ASUS ROG, etc etc in a season which is already long.


Mackus
Profile Joined January 2011
England1681 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-08 16:27:15
October 08 2012 16:25 GMT
#34
Too many analogies regarding with Football, it's not the same 1 is a National Sport, 1 is a eSport.

No one's picked up on that NASL takes longer than 3-4 months per event yet most people concern about how long a team league would last - The solution is obvious by using the NASL format, the only problem with that it being an online tournament is the Team Ace could easily imposter and play all the games for them.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
October 08 2012 16:53 GMT
#35
On October 09 2012 01:25 Mackus wrote:
Too many analogies regarding with Football, it's not the same 1 is a National Sport, 1 is a eSport.

No one's picked up on that NASL takes longer than 3-4 months per event yet most people concern about how long a team league would last - The solution is obvious by using the NASL format, the only problem with that it being an online tournament is the Team Ace could easily imposter and play all the games for them.


No. Live offline team leagues is SO much better in terms of atmosphere and seeing player interactions. Which is the best thing about PL and GSTL.
Sjokola
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands800 Posts
October 08 2012 16:57 GMT
#36
If you would do a round robin (like they doe 3 times in proleague) it would take to much time. But some form of elimination tournament could work with a lot of teams.
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
October 08 2012 17:01 GMT
#37
On October 09 2012 00:48 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2012 23:32 Caladbolg wrote:
On October 08 2012 23:16 revel8 wrote:
SC2 is not really a team game though. It is an individual thing. Players prioritise GSL and other individual tournaments over team-leagues. The only way you can get them to prioritise a team-league would be to incentivise them with appearance money. Also I suspect Kespa will try and set up a seperate SC2 domestic scene to try and diminish GOM and GSL's importance.


The amazing thing about proleague was that it was able to create such a prestigious climate that players would practice for it above and beyond individual leagues. And that was with a negligible prize pool! Basically that's what made BW such a huge deal, because people could follow teams and not just players. The game itself is played individually, but the excitement was in the team aspect (like, if your star player failed, and then suddenly one of your slumping players performs amazingly and gives your ace a chance to redeem himself in the ace match).

I think this is the future. Unfortunately, I also things many teams will be sacrificed to reach this. I see a solid 6 surviving in KeSPA (SKT, KT, CJ, KHAN, STX, Stars - sorry T8 fans) and 4 in GSL/ESF (IM, ST, MVP, TSL - sorry Slayers fans)


Like someone pointed out earlier, the actual prize pool is fairly small compare to the salary some of these top players make. And I would think the salary is dependent a lot on team league performance as well. So it is not surprising some players focused on team leagues over individual leagues. Not saying that they are selfish or anything like that, but we cannot ignore this factor when discussing difference between PL and GSTL.

I think some foreign fans might not like a joint league. Because it will at least be just as long and involve as many games as PL (Kespa/sponsors won't settle for anything less and they shouldn't since korea is still their main target audience). So we are looking like 3-3.5 months with most teams playing each weekend. Which means a lot of conflict with foreign tournaments. And since I don't see Kespa players choosing to play in foreigners events over PL, we get 2 scenarios

1) Some eSF players still come to foreign events and skip the team league. So say STX beats MVP (but Keen/DRG is at MLG). There will be questions as to whether it is a 'legit' win.

2) eSF don't come to foreign events during the 'season'

Neither seem to be too appealing. Maybe they can schedule around the 'big' tournaments (which GSTL tries to do). But I am not sure you can schedule around MLG, IPL, Dreamhack, ASUS ROG, etc etc in a season which is already long.




The salary makes them comfortable, but it's the exposure that amped up proleague to great heights, due to their TV timeslot over the past few years. I think there will be problems with foreign tournaments though, but maybe the contraction will do everyone good, since teams now have a larger talent pool and can afford to send their aces to foreign tournaments without compromising the teamleague.
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
Mackus
Profile Joined January 2011
England1681 Posts
October 08 2012 18:09 GMT
#38
On October 09 2012 01:53 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 01:25 Mackus wrote:
Too many analogies regarding with Football, it's not the same 1 is a National Sport, 1 is a eSport.

No one's picked up on that NASL takes longer than 3-4 months per event yet most people concern about how long a team league would last - The solution is obvious by using the NASL format, the only problem with that it being an online tournament is the Team Ace could easily imposter and play all the games for them.


No. Live offline team leagues is SO much better in terms of atmosphere and seeing player interactions. Which is the best thing about PL and GSTL.


It's too costly to fly teams about for Offline shows over an extreme long period
BAAEEMM
Profile Joined April 2012
Germany412 Posts
October 08 2012 20:22 GMT
#39
On October 09 2012 03:09 Mackus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 01:53 vthree wrote:
On October 09 2012 01:25 Mackus wrote:
Too many analogies regarding with Football, it's not the same 1 is a National Sport, 1 is a eSport.

No one's picked up on that NASL takes longer than 3-4 months per event yet most people concern about how long a team league would last - The solution is obvious by using the NASL format, the only problem with that it being an online tournament is the Team Ace could easily imposter and play all the games for them.


No. Live offline team leagues is SO much better in terms of atmosphere and seeing player interactions. Which is the best thing about PL and GSTL.


It's too costly to fly teams about for Offline shows over an extreme long period

Why fly? It's all in Seoul. Or did I misunderstand you?
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
October 08 2012 20:30 GMT
#40
Would definitely be cool, but I could see some issues with broadcasting rights (which matches Gom airs and which games OGN airs).
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
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