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On October 06 2012 03:07 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 02:58 renaissanceMAN wrote:On October 06 2012 02:39 Xoronius wrote:On October 06 2012 02:34 renaissanceMAN wrote:On October 06 2012 02:20 trekala wrote:
I wish ppl would talk about deathangel-veralynn in the dedicated thread....
I for one am very exited about this event and will definitely attend. All this talk about the fraud incident is bringing a negative vibe to the tournament when it actualy has nothing to do with Dreamhack.
on topic, I was hoping Sea would attend. Could have been a good tournament for him to start in sc2. Nothing to do with Dreamhack? Except for everything involving the fact that a player who committed fraud was invited to the tournament. If you're going to defend your countryman at least have reasoning that stands on its own... He was not invited, it is an open tournament with first 64 guys, who sign up, being able to play. Dreamhack does´nt invite players. He's still in the tournament, invited or not. Because he signed up. There is a big difference in inviting someone and him being tolerated. The former would seem wrong so short after, the ladder does´nt, considering the incident has nothing to do with Dreamhack.
The thing is, Dreamhack should do something about it, or at least release a statement acknowledging that they're letting him in the tournament. By saying nothing and letting him play it's as if they're just ignoring the fact that he committed serious acts of fraud. I'd have a lot more respect for DH if they at least said "yeah we know he's a scumbag, but we're still going to let him play."
He shouldn't be allowed to play, but that's just my opinion.
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I wouldn`t mind one or two more of the top Koreans, but otherwise this looks like a fun event.
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Deathangel!
-You go girl!
Seriously excited about this tournament, great player list.
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On October 05 2012 23:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
GO INCA
TRAITOR! LYNCH THE F*****!
GL to all, should be an awesome tourney.
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so STC or Stephano? 
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
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On October 05 2012 23:19 Mise wrote:
I guess a team picked up Inca, TOP, JookTo and Vines if they actually show up.
Nice call
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DeathAngel should not be allowed to participate in this tournament seriously... DreamHack should definitely NOT be forgiving about this. Not so soon at the least...
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On October 06 2012 03:11 renaissanceMAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:07 Xoronius wrote:On October 06 2012 02:58 renaissanceMAN wrote:On October 06 2012 02:39 Xoronius wrote:On October 06 2012 02:34 renaissanceMAN wrote:On October 06 2012 02:20 trekala wrote:
I wish ppl would talk about deathangel-veralynn in the dedicated thread....
I for one am very exited about this event and will definitely attend. All this talk about the fraud incident is bringing a negative vibe to the tournament when it actualy has nothing to do with Dreamhack.
on topic, I was hoping Sea would attend. Could have been a good tournament for him to start in sc2. Nothing to do with Dreamhack? Except for everything involving the fact that a player who committed fraud was invited to the tournament. If you're going to defend your countryman at least have reasoning that stands on its own... He was not invited, it is an open tournament with first 64 guys, who sign up, being able to play. Dreamhack does´nt invite players. He's still in the tournament, invited or not. Because he signed up. There is a big difference in inviting someone and him being tolerated. The former would seem wrong so short after, the ladder does´nt, considering the incident has nothing to do with Dreamhack. The thing is, Dreamhack should do something about it, or at least release a statement acknowledging that they're letting him in the tournament. By saying nothing and letting him play it's as if they're just ignoring the fact that he committed serious acts of fraud. I'd have a lot more respect for DH if they at least said "yeah we know he's a scumbag, but we're still going to let him play." He shouldn't be allowed to play, but that's just my opinion.
I think that just increases the unneccessary drama. When Dreamhack accepted his signing, they accepted him as a player, not as a negative community figure, that draws attention. The whole thing should get solved (with punishment) between DA and the organisations, which hosted the matches, in which he betrayed, there is already enough drama in the community.
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The dark knight rises! INCA FIGHTING!!!!!
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Just an idea for the OP:
Liquidpedia links make lists like this much more readable.
Other than that, thanks for the list! Gonna be a sick tournament!!
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"Barcraft Bucharest bAppsMacheji" i have some one to root for lol.
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On October 06 2012 03:04 Mackus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 02:56 CubEdIn wrote:On October 06 2012 02:52 Whatson wrote:On October 06 2012 02:49 Kabras wrote:On October 06 2012 00:56 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:54 Thruth wrote:On October 06 2012 00:52 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:50 Putty wrote:
Even if they can ban him, why do that ? He don't have maphacked or cheated in any way. He just did a little, funny scam. Are you serious? His actions put people in jail in a lot of countries. Luckily it got stopped before it became big or very very serious. Can sb tell me what is he talking about? DeathAngel and VeraLynn cheated with their identities with streaming and coaching. DeathAngel played on her stream without webcam saying he was her and with that gained a lot of viewers being a good-gamer girl, made money off of that and got recognized with coaching and made money off of that too. It luckily got stopped very fast. Not to sound like a fanboy but i don't see this being such a big deal. I thought he cheated in a match, like Spades did or some shit. So he posed as as a girl on her stream? ROFL, the drama lovers on TL really put reddit to shame. Jesus, will you people loosen up a little? IdrA, Orb, Spades, Destiny and probably many others did a lot more seriously offensive crap and never had any REAL problems. On the contrary, idra and destiny got 90% of their fans only because of retarded drama. And even if he gets sued (lmao) i don't see any court taking this shit seriously, unless maybe the stream owner is the one that sues him. Have to say i'm really disappointed in TL, so much useless drama over nothing. Yea, nothing! Fuckin grow up already. Illegally scamming money is kind of serious mr. fanboy... I agree, but it was actually veralynn who scammed for money. And you can't count the invite tournaments as "scamming" since it wasn't an all-girl tournament or something like that. He took out seriously good players to win said money so to me, it sounds fair. The fact that VeraLynn actually decided to piggy-back and charge for coaching is pretty scummy, I totally agree with penalties for that, but I'm not sure that DA had any part of that. Either way, throwing words like Jail and Fraud around is silly. This isn't a legalized activity, I doubt Idra or whoever else does coaching pays taxes for it, so please, let's not get ahead of ourselves, okay? No but if you don't apply for self-employment you don't receive a pension. Money doesn't come free, stop talking about what you don't know.
I'm sorry what?
Stop talking about what you don't know?
I've been self-employed for 7 years, yeah, I know what I'm talking about.
I was NOT talking about being an esports player, and declaring those money, I'm talking about getting 20eur on paypal or whatever verilynn got (I think it was what, 4-5 payments of 20-ish eur?). That is clearly undeclared money that you pay no tax for.
Maybe "TRUE" coaches, that actually spend a lot of hours/day doing it and have no other source of income DO declare this type of income, but let's be honest, overall, if 10% do pay taxes for coaching I'd be surprised.
And I'm sorry you think I'm taking his side, I really am not. But you're ACTUALLY talking about JAIL, are you serious? For someone sending you 20eur for teaching him? And she did teach them, it's practically THEIR fault for believing she was actually good. YES, it is fraud, but really? JAIL? Are you serious?
Again, I'm not condoning anything, I'm not saying it was right, I'm just saying you MIGHT be overreacting. And even if he did win money he shouldn't have, it really has very little to do with DreamHack since it wasn't really cheating or anything game-related. He won his matches fair and square, no matter what ID he was using.
The coaching part = very unfair, I agree, but the games were real and he won them based on his own skill, nothing else, so why be denied access to DreamHack? Because you're jealous you can't get to that level? Please.
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Remember everyone, Jookto, inca, top, vines are on Apex now :D
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Nerchio, Stephano or MaNa to win this one IMO
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On October 06 2012 02:43 Manimal_pro wrote:^Jnd are you actually comparing the match fixing that savior did in an official tournament with fake nicking in showmatches? Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 02:33 CuteZergling wrote:
This thread has been strange to read. It's weird to me that people would defend fraud. no one has the authority to actually do something to DeathAngel for his shenanigans, he will be in all EU tournaments in the future as well. I suppose kennygyt gave him a permaban on the forum but that's pretty much it
No one has the authority? lolwut? Unless you can find a country whose constitution states "Every citizen has an inalienable right to compete in video game tournaments," and you find a country where the Federal Constitution applies to privately owned businesses (i.e. in America, Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to privately owned companies. They can fire you for speaking about the latest episode of South Park if they want), everyone has authority.
Fraud was committed. One dumb girl had a dumb pro player impersonate her in showmatches against legit players and all-girl tourneys and other stuff, then passed those achievements off as her own to get bookings as a coach that she had no right doing. Every tournament can and should ban these two from competing. If serious organizations can ban players, and we want ESPORTS to be more professional, then it only follows that ESPORTS tournaments can ban players.
Other than that, really interested about the oGs guys! I've missed them. 
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On October 06 2012 03:45 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:04 Mackus wrote:On October 06 2012 02:56 CubEdIn wrote:On October 06 2012 02:52 Whatson wrote:On October 06 2012 02:49 Kabras wrote:On October 06 2012 00:56 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:54 Thruth wrote:On October 06 2012 00:52 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:50 Putty wrote:
Even if they can ban him, why do that ? He don't have maphacked or cheated in any way. He just did a little, funny scam. Are you serious? His actions put people in jail in a lot of countries. Luckily it got stopped before it became big or very very serious. Can sb tell me what is he talking about? DeathAngel and VeraLynn cheated with their identities with streaming and coaching. DeathAngel played on her stream without webcam saying he was her and with that gained a lot of viewers being a good-gamer girl, made money off of that and got recognized with coaching and made money off of that too. It luckily got stopped very fast. Not to sound like a fanboy but i don't see this being such a big deal. I thought he cheated in a match, like Spades did or some shit. So he posed as as a girl on her stream? ROFL, the drama lovers on TL really put reddit to shame. Jesus, will you people loosen up a little? IdrA, Orb, Spades, Destiny and probably many others did a lot more seriously offensive crap and never had any REAL problems. On the contrary, idra and destiny got 90% of their fans only because of retarded drama. And even if he gets sued (lmao) i don't see any court taking this shit seriously, unless maybe the stream owner is the one that sues him. Have to say i'm really disappointed in TL, so much useless drama over nothing. Yea, nothing! Fuckin grow up already. Illegally scamming money is kind of serious mr. fanboy... I agree, but it was actually veralynn who scammed for money. And you can't count the invite tournaments as "scamming" since it wasn't an all-girl tournament or something like that. He took out seriously good players to win said money so to me, it sounds fair. The fact that VeraLynn actually decided to piggy-back and charge for coaching is pretty scummy, I totally agree with penalties for that, but I'm not sure that DA had any part of that. Either way, throwing words like Jail and Fraud around is silly. This isn't a legalized activity, I doubt Idra or whoever else does coaching pays taxes for it, so please, let's not get ahead of ourselves, okay? No but if you don't apply for self-employment you don't receive a pension. Money doesn't come free, stop talking about what you don't know. I'm sorry what? Stop talking about what you don't know? I've been self-employed for 7 years, yeah, I know what I'm talking about. I was NOT talking about being an esports player, and declaring those money, I'm talking about getting 20eur on paypal or whatever verilynn got (I think it was what, 4-5 payments of 20-ish eur?). That is clearly undeclared money that you pay no tax for. Maybe "TRUE" coaches, that actually spend a lot of hours/day doing it and have no other source of income DO declare this type of income, but let's be honest, overall, if 10% do pay taxes for coaching I'd be surprised. And I'm sorry you think I'm taking his side, I really am not. But you're ACTUALLY talking about JAIL, are you serious? For someone sending you 20eur for teaching him? And she did teach them, it's practically THEIR fault for believing she was actually good. YES, it is fraud, but really? JAIL? Are you serious? Again, I'm not condoning anything, I'm not saying it was right, I'm just saying you MIGHT be overreacting. And even if he did win money he shouldn't have, it really has very little to do with DreamHack since it wasn't really cheating or anything game-related. He won his matches fair and square, no matter what ID he was using. The coaching part = very unfair, I agree, but the games were real and he won them based on his own skill, nothing else, so why be denied access to DreamHack? Because you're jealous you can't get to that level? Please.
Fraud:
i) a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain
Identity Fraud:
i) Identity fraud is unlawful identity change of another person as a principal tool of merchandise procurement.
ii) Identity fraud can occur without identity theft, as in the case where the fraudster has been given someone's identity information when the person whose identity is being used is colluding with the person committing the fraud.
How can you even dispute that is amazing
The fact you said he won his matches fair and square although he participated in a Female-only tournament shows how little you know about the whole thing or is just completely deluded
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On October 06 2012 03:45 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:04 Mackus wrote:On October 06 2012 02:56 CubEdIn wrote:On October 06 2012 02:52 Whatson wrote:On October 06 2012 02:49 Kabras wrote:On October 06 2012 00:56 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:54 Thruth wrote:On October 06 2012 00:52 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:50 Putty wrote:
Even if they can ban him, why do that ? He don't have maphacked or cheated in any way. He just did a little, funny scam. Are you serious? His actions put people in jail in a lot of countries. Luckily it got stopped before it became big or very very serious. Can sb tell me what is he talking about? DeathAngel and VeraLynn cheated with their identities with streaming and coaching. DeathAngel played on her stream without webcam saying he was her and with that gained a lot of viewers being a good-gamer girl, made money off of that and got recognized with coaching and made money off of that too. It luckily got stopped very fast. Not to sound like a fanboy but i don't see this being such a big deal. I thought he cheated in a match, like Spades did or some shit. So he posed as as a girl on her stream? ROFL, the drama lovers on TL really put reddit to shame. Jesus, will you people loosen up a little? IdrA, Orb, Spades, Destiny and probably many others did a lot more seriously offensive crap and never had any REAL problems. On the contrary, idra and destiny got 90% of their fans only because of retarded drama. And even if he gets sued (lmao) i don't see any court taking this shit seriously, unless maybe the stream owner is the one that sues him. Have to say i'm really disappointed in TL, so much useless drama over nothing. Yea, nothing! Fuckin grow up already. Illegally scamming money is kind of serious mr. fanboy... I agree, but it was actually veralynn who scammed for money. And you can't count the invite tournaments as "scamming" since it wasn't an all-girl tournament or something like that. He took out seriously good players to win said money so to me, it sounds fair. The fact that VeraLynn actually decided to piggy-back and charge for coaching is pretty scummy, I totally agree with penalties for that, but I'm not sure that DA had any part of that. Either way, throwing words like Jail and Fraud around is silly. This isn't a legalized activity, I doubt Idra or whoever else does coaching pays taxes for it, so please, let's not get ahead of ourselves, okay? No but if you don't apply for self-employment you don't receive a pension. Money doesn't come free, stop talking about what you don't know. I'm sorry what? Stop talking about what you don't know? I've been self-employed for 7 years, yeah, I know what I'm talking about. I was NOT talking about being an esports player, and declaring those money, I'm talking about getting 20eur on paypal or whatever verilynn got (I think it was what, 4-5 payments of 20-ish eur?). That is clearly undeclared money that you pay no tax for. Maybe "TRUE" coaches, that actually spend a lot of hours/day doing it and have no other source of income DO declare this type of income, but let's be honest, overall, if 10% do pay taxes for coaching I'd be surprised. And I'm sorry you think I'm taking his side, I really am not. But you're ACTUALLY talking about JAIL, are you serious? For someone sending you 20eur for teaching him? And she did teach them, it's practically THEIR fault for believing she was actually good. YES, it is fraud, but really? JAIL? Are you serious? Again, I'm not condoning anything, I'm not saying it was right, I'm just saying you MIGHT be overreacting. And even if he did win money he shouldn't have, it really has very little to do with DreamHack since it wasn't really cheating or anything game-related. He won his matches fair and square, no matter what ID he was using. The coaching part = very unfair, I agree, but the games were real and he won them based on his own skill, nothing else, so why be denied access to DreamHack? Because you're jealous you can't get to that level? Please.
Hm. So apparently it's fair and square if I have Steve Jobs participate in a high school business tournament for me, as long as he did it himself without cheating? I think you're getting something wrong there.
I don't know too much about how tournament organizers think or how EU law works or anything, but it's gonna be hard to root for him, especially after that terrible, terrible reasoning he posted on the thread.
Kind of why I think we need a international governing body, like how it works with track and field, swimming, etc.
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On October 06 2012 04:55 glzElectromaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:45 CubEdIn wrote:On October 06 2012 03:04 Mackus wrote:On October 06 2012 02:56 CubEdIn wrote:On October 06 2012 02:52 Whatson wrote:On October 06 2012 02:49 Kabras wrote:On October 06 2012 00:56 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:54 Thruth wrote:On October 06 2012 00:52 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:50 Putty wrote:
Even if they can ban him, why do that ? He don't have maphacked or cheated in any way. He just did a little, funny scam. Are you serious? His actions put people in jail in a lot of countries. Luckily it got stopped before it became big or very very serious. Can sb tell me what is he talking about? DeathAngel and VeraLynn cheated with their identities with streaming and coaching. DeathAngel played on her stream without webcam saying he was her and with that gained a lot of viewers being a good-gamer girl, made money off of that and got recognized with coaching and made money off of that too. It luckily got stopped very fast. Not to sound like a fanboy but i don't see this being such a big deal. I thought he cheated in a match, like Spades did or some shit. So he posed as as a girl on her stream? ROFL, the drama lovers on TL really put reddit to shame. Jesus, will you people loosen up a little? IdrA, Orb, Spades, Destiny and probably many others did a lot more seriously offensive crap and never had any REAL problems. On the contrary, idra and destiny got 90% of their fans only because of retarded drama. And even if he gets sued (lmao) i don't see any court taking this shit seriously, unless maybe the stream owner is the one that sues him. Have to say i'm really disappointed in TL, so much useless drama over nothing. Yea, nothing! Fuckin grow up already. Illegally scamming money is kind of serious mr. fanboy... I agree, but it was actually veralynn who scammed for money. And you can't count the invite tournaments as "scamming" since it wasn't an all-girl tournament or something like that. He took out seriously good players to win said money so to me, it sounds fair. The fact that VeraLynn actually decided to piggy-back and charge for coaching is pretty scummy, I totally agree with penalties for that, but I'm not sure that DA had any part of that. Either way, throwing words like Jail and Fraud around is silly. This isn't a legalized activity, I doubt Idra or whoever else does coaching pays taxes for it, so please, let's not get ahead of ourselves, okay? No but if you don't apply for self-employment you don't receive a pension. Money doesn't come free, stop talking about what you don't know. I'm sorry what? Stop talking about what you don't know? I've been self-employed for 7 years, yeah, I know what I'm talking about. I was NOT talking about being an esports player, and declaring those money, I'm talking about getting 20eur on paypal or whatever verilynn got (I think it was what, 4-5 payments of 20-ish eur?). That is clearly undeclared money that you pay no tax for. Maybe "TRUE" coaches, that actually spend a lot of hours/day doing it and have no other source of income DO declare this type of income, but let's be honest, overall, if 10% do pay taxes for coaching I'd be surprised. And I'm sorry you think I'm taking his side, I really am not. But you're ACTUALLY talking about JAIL, are you serious? For someone sending you 20eur for teaching him? And she did teach them, it's practically THEIR fault for believing she was actually good. YES, it is fraud, but really? JAIL? Are you serious? Again, I'm not condoning anything, I'm not saying it was right, I'm just saying you MIGHT be overreacting. And even if he did win money he shouldn't have, it really has very little to do with DreamHack since it wasn't really cheating or anything game-related. He won his matches fair and square, no matter what ID he was using. The coaching part = very unfair, I agree, but the games were real and he won them based on his own skill, nothing else, so why be denied access to DreamHack? Because you're jealous you can't get to that level? Please. Hm. So apparently it's fair and square if I have Steve Jobs participate in a high school business tournament for me, as long as he did it himself without cheating? I think you're getting something wrong there. I don't know too much about how tournament organizers think or how EU law works or anything, but it's gonna be hard to root for him, especially after that terrible, terrible reasoning he posted on the thread. Kind of why I think we need a international governing body, like how it works with track and field, swimming, etc.
This is a surprisingly good analogy. If you can get mr. Jobs to do that for you than you totally should though.
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EPT
