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On October 06 2012 01:33 Frankon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 01:15 Waxangel wrote:On October 06 2012 01:11 Frankon wrote:On October 06 2012 01:03 Waxangel wrote:
If a male pro smurfed for another male pro in a "regular" tournament, you guys would be going fucking insane MC was smurfing for Reis in some EU tournaments ^^ thanks for your terrible joke He registered under Reis real name in some weekly cup...
Kratoss must pay!
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On October 06 2012 01:21 Rescawen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 01:11 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 01:06 Rescawen wrote:On October 06 2012 01:01 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:59 Rescawen wrote:On October 06 2012 00:48 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:24 TheSir wrote:On October 06 2012 00:21 Mackus wrote:
DeathAngel, really Dreamhack?
I mean, really? Why don't you invite Spades while you're at it? Invite? really? It's a open and DeathAngel can enter if he wants to, DH has no legal rights to deny DeathAngel from entering. Yes they can. DeathAngel has no special rights to enter. You can deny anyone access if you please. On top of that DeathAngel has been involved in cheating/fraud, wahtever you wanna call it. Of course they have reason to deny him access. calling it cheating is really serious and over the line. He is just trying to make some money to live for the passion of the game. It is so difficult for him to get noticed. I think there is big difference for what he did and what spades did for example. I do respect DH for not banning him and giving him another chance. Cheating and smurfing is fundamentally different. So many people level accs and so many ppl troll lower leagues, should they be punished too? Just because stephano and taeja seem to earning money doesnt mean anyone else is getting a cent. It's not over the line. It's something people get very very big fines for if it reaches a certain level and can get jailed for as well. It's very simple, it's fraud. Well if you argue this way then our community is sexist for letting these women get extra attention due to the attention they get. I personally am of the opinion that is it just fine, but I have a friend/s who think it is absolutely unfair as well. Foreigners getting seeds in GSL is racist then? Correct if I am wrong. I think what he did is obviously wrong, but the point I am trying to make is what damage did he do? Compared to maphackers that simply taking money that they have not worked for. Did DA hurt anyone personally, sure I met talked and played him on bn and he probably isnt the friendliest guy, but he had a solid reason which is money. In my opinion something like this can only be allowed once, he does not deserve to eternally banned like for example spades. He is also simply taking money from other people? He takes viewers away from other people by having her acknowledged for something she isn't. He is also taking away customers from real coaches who actually knows the game rather than her who cheated her way to being accepted. Also your other arguments is a completely different story and has no relation to what we're arguing here. I can understand why people don'tlike direct seeds into GSL and stuff, but it has nothing to do with this. Your points are valid. I tried to bring up unfairness that clearly exists in our ecosystem at the moment, I can understand that as a competitor or upncoming/trying to go pro players are really upset due to someone getting more attention due to their sex and I think arguing whether these unfairnesses are justified is a really tricky topic. DA plays the smallest role in this dispute since he is only playing, the majority of the problem roots from veralynn and the way this community views female gamers. Nobody would care if DA smurfed as another guy. I believe he should not be punished but not banned from these events. I really dislike the fact that people say he should kicked out completely from the community as something like that would be too severe. What do you think would be fair for his punishment and how do you justified it relatively to cheating. Assuming cheating would be something that deserves to get banned from the community forever.
Ok so,
I'm managing Team Liquid and is very closely tied with players - inside and outside of the game. I have a lot of insights on different topics around the game and could give an advise two to people coming up. But I'm just a mid to high masters player and I can't provide the professional insight into the game as a player can and without being extremely good at StarCraft, I would not be a relevant coach or accepted by the communities. So what I do is I get TaeJa to stream as me and play some tournaments as me to make some results and get me known as a very good player too. I start doing coaching and earn bucks from that, same goes for streaming.
Do you think if t his happened that I would be able to keep my job? Do you think people would not care if it happened? I really they would
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How in the world are TOP, jookto, Inca, and Vines going to show up? Do they have some kind of unannounced team?? Team Liquid maybe????
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Stephano is gonig to win, so many players not even at top teir skill level in here
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Israel2209 Posts
On October 06 2012 01:21 Rescawen wrote:
What do you think would be fair for his punishment and how do you justified it relatively to cheating. Assuming cheating would be something that deserves to get banned from the community forever.
He committed fraud by impersonating another person for money, and stole money from other players when he participated in a girls-only tournament.
But he was smart, he did this in small-time tournaments where the organizers have no real power or authority so aside from his user being banned from some website called teamliquid.net he received 0 punishment.
The big dogs who spent a whole day talking about eSports in Valencia all ignored his actions. One of the issues that was brought up in the eSports congress was the need for a global rulebook where penalties would be uniformed.
His team Absolute Legends ignored his actions (I went and asked if he was still on their team and they said nothing changed and they have no comment).
Who did VeraLyn and DeathAngel rip off and deceive when they committed fraud? Us, the community.
We should be the ones administering the punishment if the people who run the tournaments are too weak-hearted or incompetent to do it.
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On October 06 2012 01:43 mrRoflpwn wrote:
How in the world are TOP, jookto, Inca, and Vines going to show up? Do they have some kind of unannounced team?? Team Liquid maybe????
That would be badass if liquid picked up all 4 of these guys! Talk about adding depth to the roster ^^
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Bumblebee, since you have a lot more knowledge about SC-buisness than 99% of the community, I would be interested in your opinions about the amout of punishment DA should get. I would certainly agree, that he should get a punishment, but I don´t think Dreamhack should be involved in this, because the we´re not involved incident, when it happened and they are an offline tourney, which eliminates the risk of him doing similar stuff in their tournament. So if you ask Dreamhack to ban him, you basically ask every SC-organisation out there, which would end his career. I think a punishment should stay between Deathangel and the parties, he cheated on.
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God, this is like kinder garden sometimes here. You cheated with hide and seek, you can play no more. The cheat-police banned you from everything and screw the laws. Did Deathangel committed a crime? Maybe, i dont know and i dont care, im not involved but did anyone do something with it? Probably not when you know this community, even if they did it's not a reason to exclude you from a unrelated open event or does DH has rules on paper when your convicted for something that you cant enter? Well no DH's for me then i guess, not that i ever wanted to visit a event anyway.
But im not even going to try anymore on this topic and i dont know what i was thinking in the first place to even try. A normal discussions with people here on other topics as SC2 is almost impossible anyway.
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On October 06 2012 01:41 Bumblebee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 01:21 Rescawen wrote:On October 06 2012 01:11 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 01:06 Rescawen wrote:On October 06 2012 01:01 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:59 Rescawen wrote:On October 06 2012 00:48 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:24 TheSir wrote:On October 06 2012 00:21 Mackus wrote:
DeathAngel, really Dreamhack?
I mean, really? Why don't you invite Spades while you're at it? Invite? really? It's a open and DeathAngel can enter if he wants to, DH has no legal rights to deny DeathAngel from entering. Yes they can. DeathAngel has no special rights to enter. You can deny anyone access if you please. On top of that DeathAngel has been involved in cheating/fraud, wahtever you wanna call it. Of course they have reason to deny him access. calling it cheating is really serious and over the line. He is just trying to make some money to live for the passion of the game. It is so difficult for him to get noticed. I think there is big difference for what he did and what spades did for example. I do respect DH for not banning him and giving him another chance. Cheating and smurfing is fundamentally different. So many people level accs and so many ppl troll lower leagues, should they be punished too? Just because stephano and taeja seem to earning money doesnt mean anyone else is getting a cent. It's not over the line. It's something people get very very big fines for if it reaches a certain level and can get jailed for as well. It's very simple, it's fraud. Well if you argue this way then our community is sexist for letting these women get extra attention due to the attention they get. I personally am of the opinion that is it just fine, but I have a friend/s who think it is absolutely unfair as well. Foreigners getting seeds in GSL is racist then? Correct if I am wrong. I think what he did is obviously wrong, but the point I am trying to make is what damage did he do? Compared to maphackers that simply taking money that they have not worked for. Did DA hurt anyone personally, sure I met talked and played him on bn and he probably isnt the friendliest guy, but he had a solid reason which is money. In my opinion something like this can only be allowed once, he does not deserve to eternally banned like for example spades. He is also simply taking money from other people? He takes viewers away from other people by having her acknowledged for something she isn't. He is also taking away customers from real coaches who actually knows the game rather than her who cheated her way to being accepted. Also your other arguments is a completely different story and has no relation to what we're arguing here. I can understand why people don'tlike direct seeds into GSL and stuff, but it has nothing to do with this. Your points are valid. I tried to bring up unfairness that clearly exists in our ecosystem at the moment, I can understand that as a competitor or upncoming/trying to go pro players are really upset due to someone getting more attention due to their sex and I think arguing whether these unfairnesses are justified is a really tricky topic. DA plays the smallest role in this dispute since he is only playing, the majority of the problem roots from veralynn and the way this community views female gamers. Nobody would care if DA smurfed as another guy. I believe he should not be punished but not banned from these events. I really dislike the fact that people say he should kicked out completely from the community as something like that would be too severe. What do you think would be fair for his punishment and how do you justified it relatively to cheating. Assuming cheating would be something that deserves to get banned from the community forever. Ok so, I'm managing Team Liquid and is very closely tied with players - inside and outside of the game. I have a lot of insights on different topics around the game and could give an advise two to people coming up. But I'm just a mid to high masters player and I can't provide the professional insight into the game as a player can and without being extremely good at StarCraft, I would not be a relevant coach or accepted by the communities. So what I do is I get TaeJa to stream as me and play some tournaments as me to make some results and get me known as a very good player too. I start doing coaching and earn bucks from that, same goes for streaming. Do you think if t his happened that I would be able to keep my job? Do you think people would not care if it happened? I really they would
As I pointed out your point is valid and are you implying DA should get fired from his job or banned from sc2 for life?
off-topic: Are you also saying that your higher on ladder than apollo as random? Mid high masters is like 800p in the current ladder. Also I sat next to taeja in DH i could easily bust you cauz i know his english isnt very gosu :D
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A bunch of Code B Koreans and 60 Europeans, 50 of whom I've never heard in my life is a sick line up?
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I thought Scarlett was supposed to be going to this?
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On October 06 2012 02:08 sitromit wrote:
A bunch of Code B Koreans and 60 Europeans, 50 of whom I've never heard in my life is a sick line up?
No, but it is a chance for some up and comers.
Dreamhack was never too prestigious anyway, the only big guns were the liquid koreans most of the time anyway.
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On October 06 2012 01:41 Bumblebee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 01:21 Rescawen wrote:On October 06 2012 01:11 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 01:06 Rescawen wrote:On October 06 2012 01:01 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:59 Rescawen wrote:On October 06 2012 00:48 Bumblebee wrote:On October 06 2012 00:24 TheSir wrote:On October 06 2012 00:21 Mackus wrote:
DeathAngel, really Dreamhack?
I mean, really? Why don't you invite Spades while you're at it? Invite? really? It's a open and DeathAngel can enter if he wants to, DH has no legal rights to deny DeathAngel from entering. Yes they can. DeathAngel has no special rights to enter. You can deny anyone access if you please. On top of that DeathAngel has been involved in cheating/fraud, wahtever you wanna call it. Of course they have reason to deny him access. calling it cheating is really serious and over the line. He is just trying to make some money to live for the passion of the game. It is so difficult for him to get noticed. I think there is big difference for what he did and what spades did for example. I do respect DH for not banning him and giving him another chance. Cheating and smurfing is fundamentally different. So many people level accs and so many ppl troll lower leagues, should they be punished too? Just because stephano and taeja seem to earning money doesnt mean anyone else is getting a cent. It's not over the line. It's something people get very very big fines for if it reaches a certain level and can get jailed for as well. It's very simple, it's fraud. Well if you argue this way then our community is sexist for letting these women get extra attention due to the attention they get. I personally am of the opinion that is it just fine, but I have a friend/s who think it is absolutely unfair as well. Foreigners getting seeds in GSL is racist then? Correct if I am wrong. I think what he did is obviously wrong, but the point I am trying to make is what damage did he do? Compared to maphackers that simply taking money that they have not worked for. Did DA hurt anyone personally, sure I met talked and played him on bn and he probably isnt the friendliest guy, but he had a solid reason which is money. In my opinion something like this can only be allowed once, he does not deserve to eternally banned like for example spades. He is also simply taking money from other people? He takes viewers away from other people by having her acknowledged for something she isn't. He is also taking away customers from real coaches who actually knows the game rather than her who cheated her way to being accepted. Also your other arguments is a completely different story and has no relation to what we're arguing here. I can understand why people don'tlike direct seeds into GSL and stuff, but it has nothing to do with this. Your points are valid. I tried to bring up unfairness that clearly exists in our ecosystem at the moment, I can understand that as a competitor or upncoming/trying to go pro players are really upset due to someone getting more attention due to their sex and I think arguing whether these unfairnesses are justified is a really tricky topic. DA plays the smallest role in this dispute since he is only playing, the majority of the problem roots from veralynn and the way this community views female gamers. Nobody would care if DA smurfed as another guy. I believe he should not be punished but not banned from these events. I really dislike the fact that people say he should kicked out completely from the community as something like that would be too severe. What do you think would be fair for his punishment and how do you justified it relatively to cheating. Assuming cheating would be something that deserves to get banned from the community forever. Ok so, I'm managing Team Liquid and is very closely tied with players - inside and outside of the game. I have a lot of insights on different topics around the game and could give an advise two to people coming up. But I'm just a mid to high masters player and I can't provide the professional insight into the game as a player can and without being extremely good at StarCraft, I would not be a relevant coach or accepted by the communities. So what I do is I get TaeJa to stream as me and play some tournaments as me to make some results and get me known as a very good player too. I start doing coaching and earn bucks from that, same goes for streaming. Do you think if t his happened that I would be able to keep my job? Do you think people would not care if it happened? I really they would
And 5 showmatches =D
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On October 06 2012 02:12 Zenbrez wrote:
I thought Scarlett was supposed to be going to this?
She was supposed to play DH Valencia, but cancelled one or two weeks before the event.
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underwhelming list of players, more easy money for stephano
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We haven't seen TLO at any big tournaments in a while :O
Gogogo!
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I wish ppl would talk about deathangel-veralynn in the dedicated thread....
I for one am very exited about this event and will definitely attend. All this talk about the fraud incident is bringing a negative vibe to the tournament when it actualy has nothing to do with Dreamhack.
on topic, I was hoping Sea would attend. Could have been a good tournament for him to start in sc2.
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EPT
