On October 06 2012 01:03 Waxangel wrote: If a male pro smurfed for another male pro in a "regular" tournament, you guys would be going fucking insane
meh, what we have here is a case of the 'loud minority'. i think very few people actually want DeathAngel in this scene anymore
I have to agree with this.
I was a fan after his almost qualification to code A twice. But when the next real thing I saw from him was this blatant fraud I just 100% stopped liking him; I can't imagine how anyone can think it isn't an issue.
I thought AL and DeathAngel weren't affiliated anymore, am I wrong?
On October 06 2012 00:21 Mackus wrote: DeathAngel, really Dreamhack?
I mean, really? Why don't you invite Spades while you're at it?
Invite? really?
It's a open and DeathAngel can enter if he wants to, DH has no legal rights to deny DeathAngel from entering.
Yes they can. DeathAngel has no special rights to enter. You can deny anyone access if you please.
On top of that DeathAngel has been involved in cheating/fraud, wahtever you wanna call it. Of course they have reason to deny him access.
calling it cheating is really serious and over the line. He is just trying to make some money to live for the passion of the game. It is so difficult for him to get noticed. I think there is big difference for what he did and what spades did for example. I do respect DH for not banning him and giving him another chance.
Cheating and smurfing is fundamentally different. So many people level accs and so many ppl troll lower leagues, should they be punished too?
Just because stephano and taeja seem to earning money doesnt mean anyone else is getting a cent.
It's not over the line. It's something people get very very big fines for if it reaches a certain level and can get jailed for as well. It's very simple, it's fraud.
Well if you argue this way then our community is sexist for letting these women get extra attention due to the attention they get. I personally am of the opinion that is it just fine, but I have a friend/s who think it is absolutely unfair as well. Foreigners getting seeds in GSL is racist then? Correct if I am wrong.
I think what he did is obviously wrong, but the point I am trying to make is what damage did he do? Compared to maphackers that simply taking money that they have not worked for. Did DA hurt anyone personally, sure I met talked and played him on bn and he probably isnt the friendliest guy, but he had a solid reason which is money.
In my opinion something like this can only be allowed once, he does not deserve to eternally banned like for example spades.
It's fraud, it's pretty simple to understand when money is involved.
On October 06 2012 01:03 Waxangel wrote: If a male pro smurfed for another male pro in a "regular" tournament, you guys would be going fucking insane
meh, what we have here is a case of the 'loud minority'. i think very few people actually want DeathAngel in this scene anymore
I have to agree with this.
I was a fan after his almost qualification to code A twice. But when the next real thing I saw from him was this blatant fraud I just 100% stopped liking him; I can't imagine how anyone can think it isn't an issue.
I thought AL and DeathAngel weren't affiliated anymore, am I wrong?
I didn't know anything about him before the controversy. After seeing his attitude after being caught and his posts on the thread I realized I didn't want to know anything about him. Will be interesting to see the coverage at the event and if he gets mentioned by the casters or heckled by people there.
Why exactly do we need massive shipping costs for 64 players, with about 15 having good chances of winning? Is this growing E-Sports or is it limiting E-Sports?
On October 06 2012 00:21 Mackus wrote: DeathAngel, really Dreamhack?
I mean, really? Why don't you invite Spades while you're at it?
Invite? really?
It's a open and DeathAngel can enter if he wants to, DH has no legal rights to deny DeathAngel from entering.
Yes they can. DeathAngel has no special rights to enter. You can deny anyone access if you please.
On top of that DeathAngel has been involved in cheating/fraud, wahtever you wanna call it. Of course they have reason to deny him access.
calling it cheating is really serious and over the line. He is just trying to make some money to live for the passion of the game. It is so difficult for him to get noticed. I think there is big difference for what he did and what spades did for example. I do respect DH for not banning him and giving him another chance.
Cheating and smurfing is fundamentally different. So many people level accs and so many ppl troll lower leagues, should they be punished too?
Just because stephano and taeja seem to earning money doesnt mean anyone else is getting a cent.
It's not over the line. It's something people get very very big fines for if it reaches a certain level and can get jailed for as well. It's very simple, it's fraud.
Well if you argue this way then our community is sexist for letting these women get extra attention due to the attention they get. I personally am of the opinion that is it just fine, but I have a friend/s who think it is absolutely unfair as well. Foreigners getting seeds in GSL is racist then? Correct if I am wrong.
I think what he did is obviously wrong, but the point I am trying to make is what damage did he do? Compared to maphackers that simply taking money that they have not worked for. Did DA hurt anyone personally, sure I met talked and played him on bn and he probably isnt the friendliest guy, but he had a solid reason which is money.
In my opinion something like this can only be allowed once, he does not deserve to eternally banned like for example spades.
He is also simply taking money from other people? He takes viewers away from other people by having her acknowledged for something she isn't. He is also taking away customers from real coaches who actually knows the game rather than her who cheated her way to being accepted.
Also your other arguments is a completely different story and has no relation to what we're arguing here. I can understand why people don'tlike direct seeds into GSL and stuff, but it has nothing to do with this.
On October 06 2012 00:21 Mackus wrote: DeathAngel, really Dreamhack?
I mean, really? Why don't you invite Spades while you're at it?
Invite? really?
It's a open and DeathAngel can enter if he wants to, DH has no legal rights to deny DeathAngel from entering.
Yes they can. DeathAngel has no special rights to enter. You can deny anyone access if you please.
On top of that DeathAngel has been involved in cheating/fraud, wahtever you wanna call it. Of course they have reason to deny him access.
calling it cheating is really serious and over the line. He is just trying to make some money to live for the passion of the game. It is so difficult for him to get noticed. I think there is big difference for what he did and what spades did for example. I do respect DH for not banning him and giving him another chance.
Cheating and smurfing is fundamentally different. So many people level accs and so many ppl troll lower leagues, should they be punished too?
Just because stephano and taeja seem to earning money doesnt mean anyone else is getting a cent.
It's not over the line. It's something people get very very big fines for if it reaches a certain level and can get jailed for as well. It's very simple, it's fraud.
Well if you argue this way then our community is sexist for letting these women get extra attention due to the attention they get. I personally am of the opinion that is it just fine, but I have a friend/s who think it is absolutely unfair as well. Foreigners getting seeds in GSL is racist then? Correct if I am wrong.
I think what he did is obviously wrong, but the point I am trying to make is what damage did he do? Compared to maphackers that simply taking money that they have not worked for. Did DA hurt anyone personally, sure I met talked and played him on bn and he probably isnt the friendliest guy, but he had a solid reason which is money.
In my opinion something like this can only be allowed once, he does not deserve to eternally banned like for example spades.
He is also simply taking money from other people? He takes viewers away from other people by having her acknowledged for something she isn't. He is also taking away customers from real coaches who actually knows the game rather than her who cheated her way to being accepted.
Also your other arguments is a completely different story and has no relation to what we're arguing here. I can understand why people don'tlike direct seeds into GSL and stuff, but it has nothing to do with this.
Your points are valid. I tried to bring up unfairness that clearly exists in our ecosystem at the moment, I can understand that as a competitor or upncoming/trying to go pro players are really upset due to someone getting more attention due to their sex and I think arguing whether these unfairnesses are justified is a really tricky topic.
DA plays the smallest role in this dispute since he is only playing, the majority of the problem roots from veralynn and the way this community views female gamers. Nobody would care if DA smurfed as another guy. I believe he should not be punished but not banned from these events. I really dislike the fact that people say he should kicked out completely from the community as something like that would be too severe.
What do you think would be fair for his punishment and how do you justified it relatively to cheating. Assuming cheating would be something that deserves to get banned from the community forever.
On October 06 2012 01:11 TigerKarl wrote: Why exactly do we need massive shipping costs for 64 players, with about 15 having good chances of winning? Is this growing E-Sports or is it limiting E-Sports?
This tournament (just like the three earlier main DH events this year) is an open tournament. Anyone could sign-up to play.
On October 06 2012 00:21 Mackus wrote: DeathAngel, really Dreamhack?
I mean, really? Why don't you invite Spades while you're at it?
Invite? really?
It's a open and DeathAngel can enter if he wants to, DH has no legal rights to deny DeathAngel from entering.
Yes they can. DeathAngel has no special rights to enter. You can deny anyone access if you please.
On top of that DeathAngel has been involved in cheating/fraud, wahtever you wanna call it. Of course they have reason to deny him access.
calling it cheating is really serious and over the line. He is just trying to make some money to live for the passion of the game. It is so difficult for him to get noticed. I think there is big difference for what he did and what spades did for example. I do respect DH for not banning him and giving him another chance.
Cheating and smurfing is fundamentally different. So many people level accs and so many ppl troll lower leagues, should they be punished too?
Just because stephano and taeja seem to earning money doesnt mean anyone else is getting a cent.
It's not over the line. It's something people get very very big fines for if it reaches a certain level and can get jailed for as well. It's very simple, it's fraud.
Well if you argue this way then our community is sexist for letting these women get extra attention due to the attention they get. I personally am of the opinion that is it just fine, but I have a friend/s who think it is absolutely unfair as well. Foreigners getting seeds in GSL is racist then? Correct if I am wrong.
I think what he did is obviously wrong, but the point I am trying to make is what damage did he do? Compared to maphackers that simply taking money that they have not worked for. Did DA hurt anyone personally, sure I met talked and played him on bn and he probably isnt the friendliest guy, but he had a solid reason which is money.
In my opinion something like this can only be allowed once, he does not deserve to eternally banned like for example spades.
He is also simply taking money from other people? He takes viewers away from other people by having her acknowledged for something she isn't. He is also taking away customers from real coaches who actually knows the game rather than her who cheated her way to being accepted.
Also your other arguments is a completely different story and has no relation to what we're arguing here. I can understand why people don'tlike direct seeds into GSL and stuff, but it has nothing to do with this.
Your points are valid. I tried to bring up unfairness that clearly exists in our ecosystem at the moment, I can understand that as a competitor or upncoming/trying to go pro players are really upset due to someone getting more attention due to their sex and I think arguing whether these unfairnesses are justified is a really tricky topic.
DA plays the smallest role in this dispute since he is only playing, the majority of the problem roots from veralynn and the way this community views female gamers. Nobody would care if DA smurfed as another guy. I believe he should not be punished but not banned from these events. I really dislike the fact that people say he should kicked out completely from the community as something like that would be too severe.
What do you think would be fair for his punishment and how do you justified it relatively to cheating. Assuming cheating would be something that deserves to get banned from the community forever.
How can you classify as participating in a Female-only tournament as a Male not cheating? What planet do you live on??
How can you classify as participating in a Female-only tournament as a Male not cheating? What planet do you live on??[/QUOTE]
didnt know about that sry, well in that case he must return money, im not sure if he did. overall what i am trying to say is he deserves 1 more chance and only 1 more chance.
EPT
