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On September 27 2012 10:20 desarrisc wrote:
So who's still in the tournament? I heard Stephano, Scarlett + 8 ESF players dropped out. Aside from KeSPA players are there anyone worth watching for this? :S
That's wrong. Stephano and Scarlett dropped out (Stephano doesn't want to deal with it per Scoots, Scarlett has a crappy connection). eSF players LosirA and MKP declined (MKP focusing on GSL, LosirA no comment). Boss said Leenock didn't want to do it because he's got a busy schedule, and is already in MLG Dallas. The other 6 Koreans in the article are participating, and are not eSF members. Nothing has been said by any other player, and there has been no official announcement from eSF that this is a coordinated snub to MLG or KeSPA.
Seriously, I feel like I'm reading Slashdot... doesn't anyone RTFA anymore?
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On September 27 2012 10:21 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:17 Sepnova wrote:On September 27 2012 10:06 sLideSC2 wrote:On September 27 2012 10:03 Sepnova wrote:
Glad. MLG needs a reality check.
Charging money to WATCH a video game is ridiculous.
MLG = CPL. I doubt PPV is the reason. I never said it was. I'm just saying they deserve it for trying to charge money. watch Lo3. MLG doesn't have a choice.
How do they not have a choice? Because Sundance said that or because they actually gave legitimate reasoning? Just asking because Sundance has clearly shown in the past that he has no qualms with hiding or completely fabricating information to suit his stance.
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On September 27 2012 10:24 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:21 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:17 Sepnova wrote:On September 27 2012 10:06 sLideSC2 wrote:On September 27 2012 10:03 Sepnova wrote:
Glad. MLG needs a reality check.
Charging money to WATCH a video game is ridiculous.
MLG = CPL. I doubt PPV is the reason. I never said it was. I'm just saying they deserve it for trying to charge money. watch Lo3. MLG doesn't have a choice. How do they not have a choice? Because Sundance said that or because they actually gave legitimate reasoning? Just asking because Sundance has clearly shown in the past that he has no qualms with hiding or completely fabricating information to suit his stance.
MLGLee said on LO3 that an outside entity is making them have it PPV, and that he could not say who due to NDA agreements. But it wasn't KeSPA, and they want to have it free.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On September 27 2012 10:20 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 09:37 Fenrax wrote:
Wow, I really have the feeling I side with Kespa this time.
Kespa players get TWO seeds to Code S RO32 while ESF gets EIGHT into the RO16 OSL and now they fucking complain??? eSF didn't get any seeds in OSL, neither did Kespa players. If anything, one can argue that Kespa got 6 seeds because they had separate dual tournament.
they got eight players into the RO16 guaranteed. Kespa got two players into the RO32 guaranteed.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_OnGameNet_Starleague_Season_1/Dual_Tournament/Non-KeSPA
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On September 27 2012 01:17 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 01:09 Condor Hero wrote:
Jesus MLG should just put up the production and prize money for a Kespa vs ESF league.
I mean, the pride of MLG is basically GSL players + Stephano and few others. Hahaha, I agree. A pure KeSPA vs. ESF vs. Stephano/Naniwa league would draw in more viewers.
Add in Vortix and Lucifron to see if they're the real deal. I've been very impressed with them, and I'm one of "those guys" who have lost faith in foreigners' abilities to compete against the Koreans.
Edit: Anyhow, I'm pretty sure this is just being blown out of proportion. Scarlett said internet issues is the problem. Stephano can't be bothered. Apparently, IM is taking the team league pretty seriously, so MC and LosirA are probably practicing their butts off since they don't have to worry about Code S. MKP really doesn't want to be a kong for much longer (he's starting to look desperate when you watch the Ro16 group pickings, hehe). Some online tournament probably loses out in the opportunity cost comparison, even if it's produced by mlg. I'm sure you'll see all these guys at the main event like you always do.
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On September 27 2012 10:22 Fenrax wrote:
And how the hell is letting noname players (for the Kespa audience) into the OSL maximizing profits? Bisu in the OSL would have made them insanely more profit compared to someone like Oz.
Coz they want to get the GSL audience?
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On September 27 2012 10:25 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:24 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:21 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:17 Sepnova wrote:On September 27 2012 10:06 sLideSC2 wrote:On September 27 2012 10:03 Sepnova wrote:
Glad. MLG needs a reality check.
Charging money to WATCH a video game is ridiculous.
MLG = CPL. I doubt PPV is the reason. I never said it was. I'm just saying they deserve it for trying to charge money. watch Lo3. MLG doesn't have a choice. How do they not have a choice? Because Sundance said that or because they actually gave legitimate reasoning? Just asking because Sundance has clearly shown in the past that he has no qualms with hiding or completely fabricating information to suit his stance. MLGLee said on LO3 that an outside entity is making them have it PPV, and that he could not say who due to NDA agreements. But it wasn't KeSPA, and they want to have it free.
Ok yea.. sounds like more grade A, concocted MLG bullshit.
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On September 27 2012 10:27 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:20 NHY wrote:On September 27 2012 09:37 Fenrax wrote:
Wow, I really have the feeling I side with Kespa this time.
Kespa players get TWO seeds to Code S RO32 while ESF gets EIGHT into the RO16 OSL and now they fucking complain??? eSF didn't get any seeds in OSL, neither did Kespa players. If anything, one can argue that Kespa got 6 seeds because they had separate dual tournament. they got eight players into the RO16 guaranteed. Kespa got two players into the RO32 guaranteed. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_OnGameNet_Starleague_Season_1/Dual_Tournament/Non-KeSPA
Why are you overlooking at the fact that Kepa got 6 players into the RO16 guaranteed?
There is no direct seed in OSL, unlike GSL. You can't compare them directly.
It's more of Kespa getting 6 spots rather than eSF getting 8 spots.
Edit: No direct seeds besides 2 previous finalists.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On September 27 2012 10:28 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:22 Fenrax wrote:
And how the hell is letting noname players (for the Kespa audience) into the OSL maximizing profits? Bisu in the OSL would have made them insanely more profit compared to someone like Oz. Coz they want to get the GSL audience?
The GSL audience is very small compared to the Kespa audience. From a business standpoint I could see letting 4 big names in to attract foreign viewers to their stream but I don't believe they wouldn't have let 50% players from another organization in without massive pressure from Blizz.
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On September 27 2012 10:32 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:28 S_SienZ wrote:On September 27 2012 10:22 Fenrax wrote:
And how the hell is letting noname players (for the Kespa audience) into the OSL maximizing profits? Bisu in the OSL would have made them insanely more profit compared to someone like Oz. Coz they want to get the GSL audience? The GSL audience is very small compared to the Kespa audience. From a business standpoint I could see letting 4 big names in to attract foreign viewers to their stream but I don't believe they wouldn't have let 50% players from another organization in without massive pressure from Blizz.
If keeping their BW audience were their main goal, then they would've simply not moved to sc2.
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On September 27 2012 10:32 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:27 Fenrax wrote:On September 27 2012 10:20 NHY wrote:On September 27 2012 09:37 Fenrax wrote:
Wow, I really have the feeling I side with Kespa this time.
Kespa players get TWO seeds to Code S RO32 while ESF gets EIGHT into the RO16 OSL and now they fucking complain??? eSF didn't get any seeds in OSL, neither did Kespa players. If anything, one can argue that Kespa got 6 seeds because they had separate dual tournament. they got eight players into the RO16 guaranteed. Kespa got two players into the RO32 guaranteed. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_OnGameNet_Starleague_Season_1/Dual_Tournament/Non-KeSPA Why are you overlooking at the fact that Kepa got 6 players into the RO16 guaranteed? There is no direct seed in OSL, unlike GSL. You can't compare them directly. It's more of Kespa getting 6 spots rather than eSF getting 8 spots. Edit: No direct seeds besides 2 previous finalists.
Wrong.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=348227
On June 27 2012 14:12 Clefairy wrote: Mvp, NesTea, MC, and DRG did get the seeds. They picked the best 3 for each race based on GSL and foreign tournaments which were MVP, Nestea and MC, and 1 more based on the person who has been getting the best results recently which was DRG. http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=1229924&category=13438
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On September 27 2012 10:32 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:27 Fenrax wrote:On September 27 2012 10:20 NHY wrote:On September 27 2012 09:37 Fenrax wrote:
Wow, I really have the feeling I side with Kespa this time.
Kespa players get TWO seeds to Code S RO32 while ESF gets EIGHT into the RO16 OSL and now they fucking complain??? eSF didn't get any seeds in OSL, neither did Kespa players. If anything, one can argue that Kespa got 6 seeds because they had separate dual tournament. they got eight players into the RO16 guaranteed. Kespa got two players into the RO32 guaranteed. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_OnGameNet_Starleague_Season_1/Dual_Tournament/Non-KeSPA Why are you overlooking at the fact that Kepa got 6 players into the RO16 guaranteed? There is no direct seed in OSL, unlike GSL. You can't compare them directly. It's more of Kespa getting 6 spots rather than eSF getting 8 spots.
Of course you can compare them. Kespa could have easily made the ESF dual tournament give exactly 1 slot for the OSL to match the rate of Kespa players in GSL. Or 2. Or 3. Or 4. But they gave 8!
8 Kespa players in their own tournament RO16 is not a lot. 30 of 32 players in Code S on the other hand is a lot.
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On September 27 2012 10:30 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:25 felisconcolori wrote:On September 27 2012 10:24 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:21 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:17 Sepnova wrote:On September 27 2012 10:06 sLideSC2 wrote:On September 27 2012 10:03 Sepnova wrote:
Glad. MLG needs a reality check.
Charging money to WATCH a video game is ridiculous.
MLG = CPL. I doubt PPV is the reason. I never said it was. I'm just saying they deserve it for trying to charge money. watch Lo3. MLG doesn't have a choice. How do they not have a choice? Because Sundance said that or because they actually gave legitimate reasoning? Just asking because Sundance has clearly shown in the past that he has no qualms with hiding or completely fabricating information to suit his stance. MLGLee said on LO3 that an outside entity is making them have it PPV, and that he could not say who due to NDA agreements. But it wasn't KeSPA, and they want to have it free. Ok yea.. sounds like more grade A, concocted MLG bullshit.
then why say if it was 2013, this would be free? why lie when they have already ran PPV events?
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On September 27 2012 10:36 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:32 NHY wrote:On September 27 2012 10:27 Fenrax wrote:On September 27 2012 10:20 NHY wrote:On September 27 2012 09:37 Fenrax wrote:
Wow, I really have the feeling I side with Kespa this time.
Kespa players get TWO seeds to Code S RO32 while ESF gets EIGHT into the RO16 OSL and now they fucking complain??? eSF didn't get any seeds in OSL, neither did Kespa players. If anything, one can argue that Kespa got 6 seeds because they had separate dual tournament. they got eight players into the RO16 guaranteed. Kespa got two players into the RO32 guaranteed. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_OnGameNet_Starleague_Season_1/Dual_Tournament/Non-KeSPA Why are you overlooking at the fact that Kepa got 6 players into the RO16 guaranteed? There is no direct seed in OSL, unlike GSL. You can't compare them directly. It's more of Kespa getting 6 spots rather than eSF getting 8 spots. Edit: No direct seeds besides 2 previous finalists. Wrong. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=348227
That was for the dual tournament.
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On September 27 2012 10:43 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:36 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:32 NHY wrote:On September 27 2012 10:27 Fenrax wrote:On September 27 2012 10:20 NHY wrote:On September 27 2012 09:37 Fenrax wrote:
Wow, I really have the feeling I side with Kespa this time.
Kespa players get TWO seeds to Code S RO32 while ESF gets EIGHT into the RO16 OSL and now they fucking complain??? eSF didn't get any seeds in OSL, neither did Kespa players. If anything, one can argue that Kespa got 6 seeds because they had separate dual tournament. they got eight players into the RO16 guaranteed. Kespa got two players into the RO32 guaranteed. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_OnGameNet_Starleague_Season_1/Dual_Tournament/Non-KeSPA Why are you overlooking at the fact that Kepa got 6 players into the RO16 guaranteed? There is no direct seed in OSL, unlike GSL. You can't compare them directly. It's more of Kespa getting 6 spots rather than eSF getting 8 spots. Edit: No direct seeds besides 2 previous finalists. Wrong. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=348227On June 27 2012 14:12 Clefairy wrote: Mvp, NesTea, MC, and DRG did get the seeds. They picked the best 3 for each race based on GSL and foreign tournaments which were MVP, Nestea and MC, and 1 more based on the person who has been getting the best results recently which was DRG. http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=1229924&category=13438 That was for the dual tournament.
which feeds directly into OSL. You can't have OSL without the Dual Tournament. Its the start of the OSL. Its like ro32 of GSL
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On September 27 2012 10:37 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:30 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:25 felisconcolori wrote:On September 27 2012 10:24 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:21 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:17 Sepnova wrote:On September 27 2012 10:06 sLideSC2 wrote:On September 27 2012 10:03 Sepnova wrote:
Glad. MLG needs a reality check.
Charging money to WATCH a video game is ridiculous.
MLG = CPL. I doubt PPV is the reason. I never said it was. I'm just saying they deserve it for trying to charge money. watch Lo3. MLG doesn't have a choice. How do they not have a choice? Because Sundance said that or because they actually gave legitimate reasoning? Just asking because Sundance has clearly shown in the past that he has no qualms with hiding or completely fabricating information to suit his stance. MLGLee said on LO3 that an outside entity is making them have it PPV, and that he could not say who due to NDA agreements. But it wasn't KeSPA, and they want to have it free. Ok yea.. sounds like more grade A, concocted MLG bullshit. then why say if it was 2013, this would be free? why lie when they have already ran PPV events?
I honestly don't know what you are asking me. The facts are, Sundance repeatedly lied to the public about MLG funding and their initial reasons/pressures for going PPV. He claims that PPV was SO successful that it enabled them to drop PPV model in favor of sponsorships (Mind you they never even released numbers to back any of this up). Now they are going back to PPV because "an outside entity is making them have it PPV" but conveniently they can't mention this "entity" and it's not KeSPA. I don't care if I have everything 1000% wrong, at first sight MLG and Sundance especially just stink to me and I'm not going to hand my money over to him.
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On September 27 2012 10:46 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:30 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:25 felisconcolori wrote:On September 27 2012 10:24 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:21 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:17 Sepnova wrote:On September 27 2012 10:06 sLideSC2 wrote:On September 27 2012 10:03 Sepnova wrote:
Glad. MLG needs a reality check.
Charging money to WATCH a video game is ridiculous.
MLG = CPL. I doubt PPV is the reason. I never said it was. I'm just saying they deserve it for trying to charge money. watch Lo3. MLG doesn't have a choice. How do they not have a choice? Because Sundance said that or because they actually gave legitimate reasoning? Just asking because Sundance has clearly shown in the past that he has no qualms with hiding or completely fabricating information to suit his stance. MLGLee said on LO3 that an outside entity is making them have it PPV, and that he could not say who due to NDA agreements. But it wasn't KeSPA, and they want to have it free. Ok yea.. sounds like more grade A, concocted MLG bullshit. then why say if it was 2013, this would be free? why lie when they have already ran PPV events? I honestly don't know what you are asking me. The facts are, Sundance repeatedly lied to the public about MLG funding and their initial reasons/pressures for going PPV. He claims that PPV was SO successful that it enabled them to drop PPV model in favor of sponsorships (Mind you they never even released numbers to back any of this up). Now they are going back to PPV because "an outside entity is making them have it PPV" but conveniently they can't mention this "entity" and it's not KeSPA. I don't care if I have everything 1000% wrong, at first sight MLG and Sundance especially just stink to me and I'm not going to hand my money over to him.
He didn't claim PPV was so successful. MLG claimed their spring season was so successful that they could drop PPV, and that hinged on Anaheim which was the biggest tournament of all time until The International when it comes to viewership.
Your facts are facts either.
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On September 27 2012 10:50 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:46 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:30 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:25 felisconcolori wrote:On September 27 2012 10:24 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:21 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:17 Sepnova wrote:On September 27 2012 10:06 sLideSC2 wrote:On September 27 2012 10:03 Sepnova wrote:
Glad. MLG needs a reality check.
Charging money to WATCH a video game is ridiculous.
MLG = CPL. I doubt PPV is the reason. I never said it was. I'm just saying they deserve it for trying to charge money. watch Lo3. MLG doesn't have a choice. How do they not have a choice? Because Sundance said that or because they actually gave legitimate reasoning? Just asking because Sundance has clearly shown in the past that he has no qualms with hiding or completely fabricating information to suit his stance. MLGLee said on LO3 that an outside entity is making them have it PPV, and that he could not say who due to NDA agreements. But it wasn't KeSPA, and they want to have it free. Ok yea.. sounds like more grade A, concocted MLG bullshit. then why say if it was 2013, this would be free? why lie when they have already ran PPV events? I honestly don't know what you are asking me. The facts are, Sundance repeatedly lied to the public about MLG funding and their initial reasons/pressures for going PPV. He claims that PPV was SO successful that it enabled them to drop PPV model in favor of sponsorships (Mind you they never even released numbers to back any of this up). Now they are going back to PPV because "an outside entity is making them have it PPV" but conveniently they can't mention this "entity" and it's not KeSPA. I don't care if I have everything 1000% wrong, at first sight MLG and Sundance especially just stink to me and I'm not going to hand my money over to him. He didn't claim PPV was so successful. MLG claimed their spring season was so successful that they could drop PPV, and that hinged on Anaheim which was the biggest tournament of all time until The International when it comes to viewership. Your facts are facts either.
They said that initial Spring Arena was so successful from PPV that they could drop PPV and they impressed sponsors. Mind you, this was after 50+% of TL said they would not pay for PPV and MLG never produced any legitimate numbers regarding viewership. Now these mysterious sponsors are not paying up and MLG has to go back to PPV, seems odd. But for MLG and Sundance, misinformation and half truths really aren't that odd.
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On September 27 2012 10:36 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:32 NHY wrote:On September 27 2012 10:27 Fenrax wrote:On September 27 2012 10:20 NHY wrote:On September 27 2012 09:37 Fenrax wrote:
Wow, I really have the feeling I side with Kespa this time.
Kespa players get TWO seeds to Code S RO32 while ESF gets EIGHT into the RO16 OSL and now they fucking complain??? eSF didn't get any seeds in OSL, neither did Kespa players. If anything, one can argue that Kespa got 6 seeds because they had separate dual tournament. they got eight players into the RO16 guaranteed. Kespa got two players into the RO32 guaranteed. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_OnGameNet_Starleague_Season_1/Dual_Tournament/Non-KeSPA Why are you overlooking at the fact that Kepa got 6 players into the RO16 guaranteed? There is no direct seed in OSL, unlike GSL. You can't compare them directly. It's more of Kespa getting 6 spots rather than eSF getting 8 spots. Of course you can compare them. Kespa could have easily made the ESF dual tournament give exactly 1 slot for the OSL to match the rate of Kespa players in GSL. Or 2. Or 3. Or 4. But they gave 8! 8 Kespa players in their own tournament RO16 is not a lot. 30 of 32 players in Code S on the other hand is a lot.
Well, that is because OSL is the 'newcomer' to sc2. They kind of needed the eSF players to legitimize their league. Most people would have called it a sham if they just have 1 eSF seed and no open qualifiers. While GSL was more established and could let Kespa players come through the qualifiers.
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On September 27 2012 10:55 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 10:50 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:46 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:30 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:25 felisconcolori wrote:On September 27 2012 10:24 SupLilSon wrote:On September 27 2012 10:21 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 27 2012 10:17 Sepnova wrote:On September 27 2012 10:06 sLideSC2 wrote:
[quote]
I doubt PPV is the reason. I never said it was. I'm just saying they deserve it for trying to charge money. watch Lo3. MLG doesn't have a choice. How do they not have a choice? Because Sundance said that or because they actually gave legitimate reasoning? Just asking because Sundance has clearly shown in the past that he has no qualms with hiding or completely fabricating information to suit his stance. MLGLee said on LO3 that an outside entity is making them have it PPV, and that he could not say who due to NDA agreements. But it wasn't KeSPA, and they want to have it free. Ok yea.. sounds like more grade A, concocted MLG bullshit. then why say if it was 2013, this would be free? why lie when they have already ran PPV events? I honestly don't know what you are asking me. The facts are, Sundance repeatedly lied to the public about MLG funding and their initial reasons/pressures for going PPV. He claims that PPV was SO successful that it enabled them to drop PPV model in favor of sponsorships (Mind you they never even released numbers to back any of this up). Now they are going back to PPV because "an outside entity is making them have it PPV" but conveniently they can't mention this "entity" and it's not KeSPA. I don't care if I have everything 1000% wrong, at first sight MLG and Sundance especially just stink to me and I'm not going to hand my money over to him. He didn't claim PPV was so successful. MLG claimed their spring season was so successful that they could drop PPV, and that hinged on Anaheim which was the biggest tournament of all time until The International when it comes to viewership. Your facts are facts either. They said that initial Spring Arena was so successful from PPV that they could drop PPV and they impressed sponsors. Mind you, this was after 50+% of TL said they would not pay for PPV and MLG never produced any legitimate numbers regarding viewership. Now these mysterious sponsors are not paying up and MLG has to go back to PPV, seems odd. But for MLG and Sundance, misinformation and half truths really aren't that odd.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347271
doesnt say because of the Spring Arena. Says because of Spring Passes and crushed it with Anaheim.
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EPT
