On September 27 2012 07:32 TommyP wrote: “When KESPA hasn't helped develop MLG as much as ESF teams have.”
I think he meant to say, "Kespa hasnt helped develop MLG at all."
Also, eSF has every right to do this. They have made MLG great and Starcraft 2 great, they are the ones who deserve everything, not Kespa.
to be fair...kespa made sc2 great without even trying thanks to what they did with bw. i have no doubt sc2(including teamliquid) wouldnt be where it is now if it wasnt for kespa's bw scene.
One could argue that if it weren't for KeSPA, the international BW scene would have been more developed because they wouldn't have been there to bar the best players from attending international events.
True, you could also argue that without KeSPA that BW would not of reached the height it did and the skill cap it had . Quality> foreigners for being foreigners
regardless of what the reasons given are and what the outcome of this is, what needs to be understood is simple.
1)ESF players, as well as anyone(Scarlett and Stephano) have the right to decline for whatever reason they want
2)This tournament is an invite only qualifier for an MLG Championship that is heavily biased toward one group of players. MLG have the right to do this, but at this point in SC2 it absolutely tarnishes the integrity of the Championship. An MLG Championship where 1/3 of the player pool is given without merit is somewhere in between being a show match and a real tournament. It loses tremendous prestige and it should surprise no one if players decline invitations. If MLG had made this tournament purely a show match then no one would have a problem with it.
3) Even if they decided to decline on principle that the tournament is rigged against them and that there is little to no incentive for them to play, they have earned the right to be upset with these conditions.(though I'm not even saying that this is the case).
4) when KeSPA decides to pull out of tournaments(or decline invitations) it is because the organization is making decisions for players. When ESF players decline invitations, players are making decisions for themselves. So its not the same as people being upset that KeSPA pulled out of GOM or KeSPA doesn't let ANY(even the less busy players) participate in any foreign tournament(except MLG because MLG pays them).
5) The fact that ESF players made MLG what it is today is clear. If MLG chooses to disrespect the ESF players because of a failed partnership with GOMTV, despite the fact that ESF players supported MLG when MLG needed it more, then its completely understandable that they would be upset(and again, I'm not saying that ESF players ARE upset).
6) why is it that every MLG is hellbent on eliminating competition when every other StarCraft organization in the world(except for KeSPA) is trying their damn hardest to grow the scene together? I'm a fan eager to spend money to help grow eSports, but these shenanigans(wishing death to IPL, claiming GSL is not a legitimate league, breaking relationship because NaNiwa incident, creating "exclusive agreements" with KeSPA, rigging the tournament qualifiers so their favored players get in) make me, the fan that spends hundreds of dollars on esports, fucking hate them.
On September 27 2012 07:32 TommyP wrote: “When KESPA hasn't helped develop MLG as much as ESF teams have.”
I think he meant to say, "Kespa hasnt helped develop MLG at all."
Also, eSF has every right to do this. They have made MLG great and Starcraft 2 great, they are the ones who deserve everything, not Kespa.
to be fair...kespa made sc2 great without even trying thanks to what they did with bw. i have no doubt sc2(including teamliquid) wouldnt be where it is now if it wasnt for kespa's bw scene.
One could argue that if it weren't for KeSPA, the international BW scene would have been more developed because they wouldn't have been there to bar the best players from attending international events.
Too bad that never actually happened in the history of BW or you could be on to something
MLG and KESPA have a partnership, I don't know why people didn't see this coming. It's shitty that the "balance" of players is obviously unbalanced in favour of their partner, but I rarely expect anything good out of MLG anyway (when they deliver, they DO do it well to be fair), but this KESPA partnership was always going to result in something like this because of the way KESPA operate.
Yes he did go on the record but his comment has been taken out of context, quote given was only as his opinion on one of the factors mentioned when talking to some players on our team. Others include conflicting schedules, prioritizing other events, not enough prize pool etc.
I cannot comment on other players however the conversation with Leenock went along these line. "do you want to play in MvP?" "no too busy with gsl/gstl no time, but kespa 24 esf 8 wtf? sad"
So it was noted by the players but it certainly wasn't all of ESF banding together to not play in the league
Just to be super clear, No the ESF did not force Leenock to not play in the event, it was entirely his decision, I cannot speak for other players as I do not speak to them on a daily basis.
On September 27 2012 09:08 FXOUnstable wrote: Ok so, FXOBoSs just woke up.
Yes he did go on the record but his comment has been taken out of context, quote given was only as his opinion on one of the factors mentioned when talking to some players on our team. Others include conflicting schedules, prioritizing other events, not enough prize pool etc.
I cannot comment on other players however the conversation with Leenock went along these line. "do you want to play in MvP?" "no too busy with gsl/gstl no time, but kespa 24 esf 8 wtf? sad"
So it was noted by the players but it certainly wasn't all of ESF banding together to not play in the league
Thank you very much for the clarification.
Now I really, truly wish that this headline would be changed. It is not accurate, it does nothing but promote drama.
I don't see how invite numbers are even a question here. It's MLG vs Kespa. It says it right on the title. Short of a purely Kespa vs ESF tournament, ESF will always have less invites than the Kespa players.
On September 27 2012 09:08 FXOUnstable wrote: Ok so, FXOBoSs just woke up.
Yes he did go on the record but his comment has been taken out of context, quote given was only as his opinion on one of the factors mentioned when talking to some players on our team. Others include conflicting schedules, prioritizing other events, not enough prize pool etc.
I cannot comment on other players however the conversation with Leenock went along these line. "do you want to play in MvP?" "no too busy with gsl/gstl no time, but kespa 24 esf 8 wtf? sad"
So it was noted by the players but it certainly wasn't all of ESF banding together to not play in the league
Thank you for the update and information. This also reinforces my "Slasher wrote a crappy article" leaning.
On September 27 2012 09:08 FXOUnstable wrote: Ok so, FXOBoSs just woke up.
Yes he did go on the record but his comment has been taken out of context, quote given was only as his opinion on one of the factors mentioned when talking to some players on our team. Others include conflicting schedules, prioritizing other events, not enough prize pool etc.
I cannot comment on other players however the conversation with Leenock went along these line. "do you want to play in MvP?" "no too busy with gsl/gstl no time, but kespa 24 esf 8 wtf? sad"
So it was noted by the players but it certainly wasn't all of ESF banding together to not play in the league
Thank you for the update and information. This also reinforces my "Slasher wrote a crappy article" leaning.
So heresay trumps what someone said on the record now?
Makes sense, the ESF players want to be treated equally and fairly with the KESPA players.
I agree that they've done a lot more to help grow MLG than the KESPA players so I see why they'd be a bit annoyed by this. Plus, I thinking it was setting up the ESF players to look bad. If a KESPA player won everyone would start screaming, "OMG! KESPA PLAYERS ARE ALREADY BETTER THAN THE ESF PLAYERS!" despite having three times as many competitors.
On September 27 2012 09:08 FXOUnstable wrote: Ok so, FXOBoSs just woke up.
Yes he did go on the record but his comment has been taken out of context, quote given was only as his opinion on one of the factors mentioned when talking to some players on our team. Others include conflicting schedules, prioritizing other events, not enough prize pool etc.
I cannot comment on other players however the conversation with Leenock went along these line. "do you want to play in MvP?" "no too busy with gsl/gstl no time, but kespa 24 esf 8 wtf? sad"
So it was noted by the players but it certainly wasn't all of ESF banding together to not play in the league
Thank you for the update and information. This also reinforces my "Slasher wrote a crappy article" leaning.
So heresay trumps what someone said on the record now?
TL TL TL.
lol. the law & order generation. or is it the good wife?
On September 27 2012 04:04 FXOUnstable wrote: I am 99.9% surethat this comment was not meant as a statement because I was sitting next to fxoboss when he was talking about it and he specifically said to me "why does he keep asking me to go on the record when I don't know the whole story.
It's 3am at the moment and I txt'd boss but i will have to wait for confirmation.
Regardless, players are allowed to decline a tournament whenever they want. It is not up to anyone else other than players if they accept or not.
Players decline the FXO invitational all the time, their reasons are none of anybodies business but their own.
FXO declined an invite into the EGMC. Does this mean we hate eg and want their event to fail? No it doesn't, it means we are in GSTL and IPTL already and don't have time in our schedule for anything else.The players that would have been invited to the MvP league would already be extremely busy with GSL/GSTL/IPL etc so they have barely any time as it is.
People please read this!!! No need for any ESF/Kespa drama -.-.. well yet anyway....
Only two players declined MKP and Losira
MKP said in his interview he wanted to focus only on GSL for this season which easily explains why he pulled out
As for Losira it could be any kind of reasons.... the main point is this isn't ESF playersgetting together and deciding to stick it to MLG or Kespa.... it's two players declining an invite for personal reasons....
So basically, fuck Slasher.
This thread should probably be closed or the OP heavily edited.
On September 27 2012 07:56 FragRaptor wrote: ESF is being waaay too hormonal about this. The whole point is to beat kespa as a united global force. MLG Doesn't want ESF vs. Kespa they can make that on their own......
All this MvP hate is really getting on my nerves... so much ignorance and general stupidity.
Lol, this is rich. Talk about ignorance and stupidity. Maybe try to read more than the OP? ESF isn't even doing anything? Some players just declined to play. This includes Scarlett and Stephano who aren't in eSF...
On September 27 2012 09:08 FXOUnstable wrote: I cannot comment on other players however the conversation with Leenock went along these line. "do you want to play in MvP?" "no too busy with gsl/gstl no time, but kespa 24 esf 8 wtf? sad"
If that's true ESF players are thinking about it wrong, its not Kespa vs ESF its MLG vs Proleague,
On September 27 2012 09:08 FXOUnstable wrote: Ok so, FXOBoSs just woke up.
Yes he did go on the record but his comment has been taken out of context, quote given was only as his opinion on one of the factors mentioned when talking to some players on our team. Others include conflicting schedules, prioritizing other events, not enough prize pool etc.
I cannot comment on other players however the conversation with Leenock went along these line. "do you want to play in MvP?" "no too busy with gsl/gstl no time, but kespa 24 esf 8 wtf? sad"
So it was noted by the players but it certainly wasn't all of ESF banding together to not play in the league
Thank you for the update and information. This also reinforces my "Slasher wrote a crappy article" leaning.
So heresay trumps what someone said on the record now?
TL TL TL.
You mean hearsay. From a known source. That has a specific and well known connection to the individual that was originally quoted. Saying that "he was quoted out of context". Considering that the entire lower half of the article itself is out of context with its actual title and the first few paragraphs.
Vs.
In a story by a guy that relies on "sources" to make an assumption of coordinated action by an organization and provides solely as his evidence that one, short quote. Despite it contradicting the past history of said organization, which has in every case of coordinated action provided an immediate and official statement of intent.
TL; dr - Yes, because FXOUnstable has no reason to lie, nor does FXOBoss, while this assumption by Slasher has driven how many people, exactly, to that crappy article? (And seriously, it is not a well written article, even if every single thing Slasher wrote was absolutely true.)
On September 27 2012 09:08 FXOUnstable wrote: Ok so, FXOBoSs just woke up.
Yes he did go on the record but his comment has been taken out of context, quote given was only as his opinion on one of the factors mentioned when talking to some players on our team. Others include conflicting schedules, prioritizing other events, not enough prize pool etc.
I cannot comment on other players however the conversation with Leenock went along these line. "do you want to play in MvP?" "no too busy with gsl/gstl no time, but kespa 24 esf 8 wtf? sad"
So it was noted by the players but it certainly wasn't all of ESF banding together to not play in the league
Thank you for the update and information. This also reinforces my "Slasher wrote a crappy article" leaning.
So heresay trumps what someone said on the record now?
On September 22 2012 17:07 Waxangel wrote: Korean community is wondering what's up with the lack of Esports federation players? You know, MKP, DRG, guys who placed top at a lot of tournaments this year.
We all know what's up with that......
I have a dream that one day this community will rise up and demand equal treatment for equal pro players.
I have a dream that one day the league of Global Starcraft 2 and the Starleague of Ongamenet will be able to sit down together at the table of Esports.
I have a dream that one day even the organization of KESPA, an organization sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of good games and fair play.
This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to MLG with. This will be the day when all professional Starcraft players will be able to play with a new meaning:
"Our game, 'tis of thee, sweet Wings of Liberty, of thee I sing. Land where Brood War died, land of the Terran pride, from every tourney bracket, let good games ring."
And when this happens, when we allow good games to ring, when we let them ring from every tournament and every show match, from every series and every league, we will be able to speed up that day when all pro SC2 players -- Koreans and Foreigners, KESPA and ESF, Teamliquid and EG -- will be able to join hands and sing in the words of that old gaming spirit:
"Good luck have fun! Good luck have fun! Good game well played! Good luck have fun!"
On September 22 2012 17:07 Waxangel wrote: Korean community is wondering what's up with the lack of Esports federation players? You know, MKP, DRG, guys who placed top at a lot of tournaments this year.
We all know what's up with that......
I have a dream that one day this community will rise up and demand equal treatment for equal pro players.
I have a dream that one day the league of Global Starcraft 2 and the Starleague of Ongamenet will be able to sit down together at the table of Esports.
I have a dream that one day even the organization of KESPA, an organization sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of good games and fair play.
This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to MLG with. This will be the day when all professional Starcraft players will be able to play with a new meaning:
"Our game, 'tis of thee, sweet Wings of Liberty, of thee I sing. Land where Brood War died, land of the Terran pride, from every tourney bracket, let good games ring."
And when this happens, when we allow good games to ring, when we let them ring from every tournament and every show match, from every series and every league, we will be able to speed up that day when all pro SC2 players -- Koreans and Foreigners, KESPA and ESF, Teamliquid and EG -- will be able to join hands and sing in the words of that old gaming spirit:
"Good luck have fun! Good luck have fun! Good game well played! Good luck have fun!"
On September 27 2012 09:08 FXOUnstable wrote: Ok so, FXOBoSs just woke up.
Yes he did go on the record but his comment has been taken out of context, quote given was only as his opinion on one of the factors mentioned when talking to some players on our team. Others include conflicting schedules, prioritizing other events, not enough prize pool etc.
I cannot comment on other players however the conversation with Leenock went along these line. "do you want to play in MvP?" "no too busy with gsl/gstl no time, but kespa 24 esf 8 wtf? sad"
So it was noted by the players but it certainly wasn't all of ESF banding together to not play in the league
Thank you for the update and information. This also reinforces my "Slasher wrote a crappy article" leaning.
So heresay trumps what someone said on the record now?
TL TL TL.
lol. the law & order generation. or is it the good wife?
Haven't seen the good wife. I hope it doesn't breed more of them.
EPT
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