How come it didnt surprise me the guy already has a scamming background? Yes, I mean the CoD tournament which was played in shitty conditions and took long time before they even paid the prizes(not sure if everything is even paid).
Why not post this to the end instead of kittens? Would have given the same amount of professionalism.
Well, I still hope they can get over this and the house keeps rolling. Looks like the other players are happy and they dont have any problems. The esports need more gaming houses to grow this bigger, and maybe we could get more after MoW showing the way(not very good way yet lol). I hope the shitstorm taught them a lesson.
I don't have any sympathy for MoW. There is no excuse for not giving someone a copy of the contract before they sign it, to do whatever they want with. And there is no excuse for misrepresenting the content of a contract and then acting like 'oh we would never enforce it' WRONG, if you weren't to enforce it, you don't make a contract. You don't refuse to give someone a copy of the contract, and then decide tell them 'either sign the contract today or leave'.
It's disgusting and a perfect reason to always give someone a copy of the contract to inspect before they make a deal to come visit. If not then it is only your fault when they don't want to sign.
On September 14 2012 20:44 nikoYO wrote: pitchforking mob...but why? you fuck up, you get what you deserve. its not too difficult, just do good business. it really isnt hard. its common sense.
you dont strongarm people (22:00 h sign or out) you dont blackmail him (skype convo) oh and you dont try to scam the COD tourney... (oh yeah he paid once again AFTER people made it public and put pressure on him)
No, you don't strongarm people. This was a fail. Amendments were promised. No, you don't blackmail people. This was a fail. Fuzer was finally paid. No, you don't scam the COD tourney. This was a fail too. But hey, it's not like this is the only tourney in the world that ended up with delaying the payments, you can look it up on TL. And it was finally sorted out. And it was not run by MoW.
MoW does deserve some recognition for all the other things they've done over the last couple of months.
so he just made some mistakes twice or what ever no big deal. but first oh wait lets get a biased article on esfi so we look good...mhm still not enough.wtf is wrong with people? ok lets make a statement that says nothing. damn still not enough. mhm ok lets take a day and make a nice lawyer/PR speak article because we are serious. here are kittens.
how many more bad businesses does esports need? the house might be a good concept. the players here said it was good because the people in the house are good. and i dont think they ment the staff or the cleaning lady. basicly the other players.
recognition? for what? for providing what they advertised? (they didnt even do that , the food, the psychologist, the massager thingy?) so what now? are they a charity that deservers recognition or are they getting money to provide a service?
On September 14 2012 21:00 nikoYO wrote: so he just made some mistakes twice or what ever no big deal. but first oh wait lets get a biased article on esfi so we look good...mhm still not enough.wtf is wrong with people? ok lets make a statement that says nothing. damn still not enough. mhm ok lets take a day and make a nice lawyer/PR speak article because we are serious. here are kittens.
You can go on with hairsplitting even further. Split the same thing into 1000 parts more. It is still a single incident: MoW failed to deal with Fuzer.
This is how I see it. One "Fuzer incident" at MoW over a couple months. For me it's not enough to kick people out.
how many more bad businesses does esports need? the house might be a good concept. the players here said it was good because the people in the house are good. and i dont think they ment the staff or the cleaning lady. basicly the other players.
MoW is a good business once you get rid of your tunnel vision.
recognition? for what? for providing what they advertised? (they didnt even do that , the food, the psychologist, the massager thingy?) so what now? are they a charity that deservers recognition or are they getting money to provide a service?
Just a lot of vague statements. What statements should have really come out was:
The contract does not enforce 5 hours streaming time. The contract does not prevent you from playing in another game house.
Instead, it's just bs how they wont be stopping anyone from doing xyz.
And secondly, offering back his own rent money in exchange of shutting up is simply unethical. There is just no info in this post that wasn't there in those meaningless press releases few days back.
On September 14 2012 21:00 nikoYO wrote: so he just made some mistakes twice or what ever no big deal. but first oh wait lets get a biased article on esfi so we look good...mhm still not enough.wtf is wrong with people? ok lets make a statement that says nothing. damn still not enough. mhm ok lets take a day and make a nice lawyer/PR speak article because we are serious. here are kittens.
You can go on with hairsplitting even further. Split the same thing into 1000 parts more. It is still a single incident: MoW failed to deal with Fuzer.
This is how I see it. One "Fuzer incident" at MoW over a couple months. For me it's not enough to kick people out.
how many more bad businesses does esports need? the house might be a good concept. the players here said it was good because the people in the house are good. and i dont think they ment the staff or the cleaning lady. basicly the other players.
MoW is a good business once you get rid of your tunnel vision.
recognition? for what? for providing what they advertised? (they didnt even do that , the food, the psychologist, the massager thingy?) so what now? are they a charity that deservers recognition or are they getting money to provide a service?
your nationalist BS is obvious btw
On TL my nationality is Terran actually
guess you are really resitant. i give up. your arguments are to good. (the tunnel vision, its a good business just pushed me over.)
MOW did everything right! lets hope more people learn that you can do what ever you want, and dont fear any backlash whatsoever. good business!
With utmost sadness we have observed some of the details being released, at times partial and without proper context. This should have not happened under no circumstances and we fully acknowledge our managemental shortcomings in that regard. ...
Double negative...? You're not really saying anything here. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you meant "under ANY circumstances".
... 1. First and foremost Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen or any other guest of the house has not been, or will be stopped from pursuing a professional e-sport carrier beyond the Ministry of Win by means of a legal document or a verbal agreement. ...
They haven't been, but they might be...?
This statement is correct even if the contract says that they can't do it. You're just saying that you haven't acted on it YET.
But then you go on to say that not only can they join a team/prohouse/tournament but they WILL join teams/prohouses/tournaments!! I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt again: you meant to say "has not been and will not be stopped".
on Tuesday the 11th Samuli has been asked to either sign the contract or leave until 22:00. Upon announcing that he chose the latter, a refund for the remaining days has been offered and turned down.
...yeah, he just sorta went like "no its cool you can have it."???
very good post. this just shows the similarities to esports now and the early days of the music/film industry. strong arming them, blackmail and contracts that are so full of BS .
On September 14 2012 21:19 nikoYO wrote: guess you are really resitant. i give up. your arguments are to good. (the tunnel vision, its a good business just pushed me over.)
MOW did everything right! lets hope more people learn that you can do what ever you want, and dont fear any backlash whatsoever. good business!
I admitted in almost every post that MoW failed. The question at hand is what should happen next. I don't agree with the "kick the guy out" idea based upon single Fuzer incident and one failed unrelated CoD tournament from 2 years ago.
I believe MoW will get better through all this and they did deserve the backlash, but it went too far.
Also, large number of satisfied players (compared to single Fuzer) make MoW a good business. That's simple as that.
On September 14 2012 20:44 nikoYO wrote: pitchforking mob...but why? you fuck up, you get what you deserve. its not too difficult, just do good business. it really isnt hard. its common sense.
you dont strongarm people (22:00 h sign or out) you dont blackmail him (skype convo) oh and you dont try to scam the COD tourney... (oh yeah he paid once again AFTER people made it public and put pressure on him)
No, you don't strongarm people. This was a fail. Amendments were promised. No, you don't blackmail people. This was a fail. Fuzer was finally paid. No, you don't scam the COD tourney. This was a fail too. But hey, it's not like this is the only tourney in the world that ended up with delaying the payments, you can look it up on TL. And it was finally sorted out. And it was not run by MoW.
MoW does deserve some recognition for all the other things they've done over the last couple of months.
Where was it actually stated that Fuzer got paid? I didn't see this.
due to this incident, i bet MoW will now be more aware of their current situation they are in as a business. i believe this incident will only make them better, but they have to do more than before to earn the trust back and get back on track.
Can a Moderator please update the OP to clarify that Fuzer has been refunded the money he was owed?
Personally, I am completely happy with the way this has finally been resolved.
I hope MoW are serious when they say that they'll be taking steps to ensure situations like this don't happen in future, and for now I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. With any luck stuff like this won't happen again and we won't be hearing any uncalled for grievances from people already in the MoW.
I'm still kind of surprised how they handled the whole contract situation. If you make revisions to a contract at someone's request you can't just ask them to take you at your word that you made the revisions correctly. Why wouldn't they allow him to have his lawyer look at it again to make sure everything was in order? I would NEVER sign a contract of any kind without my lawyer looking at it.
I know that at one point they had mentioned they wanted to see his lawyer's credentials before letting him see it which is also asinine, who cares if his lawyer is legit or not? If his lawyer isn't legit he's either 1.) going to tell him the contract is good to sign when it's not or 2.) he's just going to make stupid recommendations at which point they could have just stopped the process. The fact that they prevented him from having the contract reviewed bodes a lot worse for MoW than it does for how Fuzer handled that particular interaction.
Still difficult to tell what exactly to make from this whole situation and I don't agree with the way both sides handled themselves but hopefully it was at least a good learning experience for everyone.
" Okay, looks like they want to learn from their mistakes. I got the money they owed me in my Paypal account and that side of the story is now cleared. They don't owe me money from the rent anymore. "
OK! Threads over, the thing that sucked the most about this ordeal has been solved. Time to move on, close this thread please, it hurts my brain.
Im glad I waited a few days to post because I would have reflexively defended fuzer, and would now have to backpeddle or make up some other greivance. Is it a sticky situation, and can MoW improve on their business practices? Absolutely. Is it worth crucifying them for? Hell no. I forgive.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9430/kropekkkk.gif)
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