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Analysis of Koreans vs non-Koreans at major events

Forum Index > SC2 General
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DRob
Profile Joined May 2012
United States30 Posts
September 07 2012 00:58 GMT
#1
I finished a data analysis project recently and wanted to share the results. I first released them in an article earlier today: http://esfiworld.com/news/analysis-koreans-defeat-non-koreans-74-major-tournament-matches

Here the meat of it...

[image loading]

[image loading]

Also in the full article is an embedded Google spreadsheet that shows that calculations I did for every event if anyone wants to do any data digging for themselves.

Criteria:
- Calculated based on Team Liquid listed “Premiere Events” and “Major Events” with a prize pool of at least $10,000, at least 16 competitors
- Forfeited rounds are not calculated
- Early competition rounds with more than 64 players were not counted as skill level between players is often too disparate to make useful comparisons.

Please note that this analysis is not trying to draw some big conclusion but rather provide some hard data about a commonly discussed topic in the hopes of having a more informed conversation. Welcome to any input on how I could have done this little project better.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
September 07 2012 00:59 GMT
#2
So you're telling me that Koreans, those folk from Asia, are better than everyone else?

Shit. Just. Got. Serious.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 01:03:46
September 07 2012 01:03 GMT
#3
In conclusion: Koreans own white dudes. Will they keep owing white dudes in the future? Some people say that HotS then LotV will help balancing the winrates (something to do with resetting the metagame) but, I'm not holding my breath tbh.
o choro é livre
rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 01:06:55
September 07 2012 01:05 GMT
#4
Whoa. This data changes everything we know about Starcraft today.
Hazuc
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada471 Posts
September 07 2012 01:06 GMT
#5
They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments.
xrapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1644 Posts
September 07 2012 01:07 GMT
#6
On September 07 2012 09:59 Fionn wrote:
So you're telling me that Koreans, those folk from Asia, are better than everyone else?

Shit. Just. Got. Serious.


You'd be surprised of the amount of people that think the "gap" is closing. It's getting bigger and bigger. Take any player on a Korean team and he's as good or better than the best of the best foreigners (still makes me sick that the recent power rankings had Nerchio and Stephano both as top 10 in the world ><)
Everyone is either delusional, a nihlilst, or dead from suicide.
wozzot
Profile Joined July 2012
United States1227 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 01:13:51
September 07 2012 01:09 GMT
#7
-snip-
(ノ´∀`*)ノ ♪ ♫ ヽ(´ー`)ノ ♪ ♫ (✌゚∀゚)☞ ♪ ♫ ヽ(´ー`)ノ ♫ ♫ (ノ´_ゝ`)ノ彡 ┻━┻
Porcelina
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United Kingdom3249 Posts
September 07 2012 01:11 GMT
#8
On September 07 2012 09:59 Fionn wrote:
So you're telling me that Koreans, those folk from Asia, are better than everyone else?

Shit. Just. Got. Serious.


Love you Fionn.

Lets write a new article. I nominate the name 'The New Korean Dominance Paradigm'.
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 01:15:38
September 07 2012 01:14 GMT
#9
On September 07 2012 10:06 Hazuc wrote:
They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments.


No one knows who the top 32 Koreans are.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
September 07 2012 01:16 GMT
#10
i kinda want to see esf vs kespa in two more years XD
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Hazuc
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada471 Posts
September 07 2012 01:17 GMT
#11
On September 07 2012 10:14 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 10:06 Hazuc wrote:
They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments.


No one knows who the top 32 Koreans are.


What I'm trying to say is that most koreans playing in foreign tournaments are Code S level which is not really fair for comparisons.
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
September 07 2012 01:18 GMT
#12
Good work.
Overall results are just as expected, but nice to know the numbers.

Personally, I could care less about the nationality of the players as long as they bring good starcraft games, but some people do care, so your research is very helpful.
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
September 07 2012 01:21 GMT
#13
I think that the more interesting conclusion is that non-Korean win rates against Koreans are overall declining. In other words, the skill gap between Koreans and non-Koreans is increasing.

From this, we might be able to draw conclusions on things that have been speculated on before. Namely, that the Korean method of training/practice or their mindset towards practice is simply superior. Given an equal period of time, Koreans seem to be improving faster than their foreign counterparts.
TAMinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2706 Posts
September 07 2012 01:27 GMT
#14
The only thing I find interesting is why foreigner had a big increase in win rate @ 2012 Q2. Everything else is to be expected
BoB_KiLLeR
Profile Joined September 2010
Spain620 Posts
September 07 2012 01:30 GMT
#15
On September 07 2012 09:59 Fionn wrote:
So you're telling me that Koreans, those folk from Asia, are better than everyone else?

Shit. Just. Got. Serious.


roflmao
Shana
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Indonesia1814 Posts
September 07 2012 01:35 GMT
#16
Surprise, surprise
Believing in what lies ahead. | That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
September 07 2012 01:43 GMT
#17
Thanks a bunch. For some reason the idea that Koreans were almost BW level untouchable in 2011 exists amongst certain members of the TL community. Probably selective memory only focusing on last year's MLG Columbus, Anaheim and Raleigh.
Greenei
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1754 Posts
September 07 2012 01:46 GMT
#18


/thread

User was warned for this post
IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA
domane
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada1606 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 01:51:51
September 07 2012 01:49 GMT
#19
Thanks for your work. They still give me a slightly better understanding of the gap.
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
September 07 2012 01:52 GMT
#20
Nice little project, thanks.

Two suggestions:
1) Include error bars. It is very easy and should show what are actually trends, and what are just fluctuations. You will get errors of a few percent I think, so "33.4%" is maybe a bit too ambitious way to write it, and just "33%" is probably enough.

2) To try to estimate the "well it's the best koreans vs scrub foreigners" argument above, you can plot round of 16,8,4 and finals separately. If indeed it is an important effect you will see koreans having better winrates in the earlier rounds. Beware of low statistics though, specially at the later rounds. Probably better to do this for all data, rather than quarter by quarter.

ty, gl.
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