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Active: 569 users

KeSPA Agrees to Participate in GSL Season 5 - Page 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
607 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 20 31 Next All
achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
August 24 2012 17:53 GMT
#341
On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote:
Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you:

Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all.

You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make.

If KeSPA pull out midway, the community out roar will be furious. Different circumstances.
Jakkerr
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2549 Posts
August 24 2012 17:56 GMT
#342
to be honest ESF should give in and let their players participate now.
Maybe it isn't the fairest thing for them, but not letting them participate will create even more drama and actually do severe dmg to Korean E-sports.

Aslong as KeSPA doesn't back out of this promise it sounds like an acceptable situation for me.
skyflyfish
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada499 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 17:57:04
August 24 2012 17:56 GMT
#343
unless kespa decide to join gsl4 i dont think esf should join osl~ it will accomplish nothing but drama
as1
achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 17:58:41
August 24 2012 17:56 GMT
#344
On August 25 2012 02:56 Jakkerr wrote:
to be honest ESF should give in and let their players participate now.
Maybe it isn't the fairest thing for them, but not letting them participate will create even more drama and actually do severe dmg to Korean E-sports.

Aslong as KeSPA doesn't back out of this promise it sounds like an acceptable situation for me.

And what makes you think that KeSPA won't back out? Also, I don't think ESF should accept "progaming licenses" from KeSPA since it puts their team under KeSPA control.
Krogan
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden375 Posts
August 24 2012 17:58 GMT
#345
FREEDOM!!!, right out of mother fucking braveheart.
domane
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada1606 Posts
August 24 2012 17:58 GMT
#346
Did KeSPA ever announce their players will participate in Season 4? Or was it that they will participate in the GSL in the future?
Michaels
Profile Joined August 2010
419 Posts
August 24 2012 17:59 GMT
#347
On August 25 2012 02:58 domane wrote:
Did KeSPA ever announce their players will participate in Season 4? Or was it that they will participate in the GSL in the future?


They havent.
Taku
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada2036 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 18:01:39
August 24 2012 18:01 GMT
#348
Hypothetical scenario:

OSL/PL matches are scheduled so they overlap with GSL match times, and Kespa goes on record saying that players/teams are free to choose which one they go with and that they aren't restricting everything. I wonder what would happen...
When SC2 came for BW, I cried. Now LoL/Dota2 comes for SC2, and I laugh. \o/
Kergy
Profile Joined December 2010
Peru2011 Posts
August 24 2012 18:03 GMT
#349
On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote:
Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you:

Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all.

You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make.


I agree with you, the best move ESF can make now is play in OSL, Kespa has already backed down and promised they will participate in S5, a formal agreement could be signed to ensure this. It could be considered as their last chance, if they fuck up once again they'd be digging their own grave.

I think the decision to play or not in GSL S4 should be made by the individual teams and not Kespa as a whole, let's not forget that half of them still have to play BW for at least another month.

Or... Stork could just organize a strike and force a reform, but that's dreaming too much
Everyday Girl's Day~!
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
August 24 2012 18:06 GMT
#350
On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote:
Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you:

Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all.

You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make.


Wrong. If Kespa agrees to allow players to play through GSL 4 after this whole fiasco, and then they back out, they would lose enough face that they would endanger most of their sponsorships. It's a Korean cultural value thing. You don't want your business to look like scum (at least not completely).

The reason why they have to occur at the same time is this:
The OSL has an audience. It is at least partially exclusive from the audience that the GSL has. This audience is based in KR.
The GSL has an audience. It is at least partially exclusive from the audience that the OSL has. This is an international audience.
Both tournaments want to have the widest audience possible because this generates revenue for their sponsors.

By having GSL players attend OSL, the OSL gains some of the regular viewers of the GSL, as well as the fans of the individual GSL players attending.
The same reasoning works for OSL players attending GSL 4.

By changing their decision on allowing OSL players into GSL 4, Kespa breaks a mutually beneficially agreement, and then says "Oh sorry about that, we'll just use your players for our publicity in OSL and we might throw you a bone next GSL."
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
August 24 2012 18:07 GMT
#351
A legally binding, formal agreement from KeSPA is a must.
FairForever
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2392 Posts
August 24 2012 18:08 GMT
#352
On August 25 2012 03:01 Taku wrote:
Hypothetical scenario:

OSL/PL matches are scheduled so they overlap with GSL match times, and Kespa goes on record saying that players/teams are free to choose which one they go with and that they aren't restricting everything. I wonder what would happen...


You know GSL has been very flexible about moving their times to accommodate players who play overseas, I am sure they can find a working resolution to get KeSPA players to play both.

No one's asking them to pick one or the other, your statement has no bearing to the argument at hand.
eleaf
Profile Joined September 2011
526 Posts
August 24 2012 18:09 GMT
#353
Man all the information are coming so fast. Now after 'No Kespa Players in Upcoming GSL' we have:

'eSports federation players defer OSL participation'

'KeSPA Agrees to Participate in GSL Season 5'

I did quite follow the next two news since it's my sleep time...

Can anyone clarify will eSports federation players (Nestea, MVP, DRG, MKP, Parting, San) still be in OSL after KeSPA's announcement?

achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
August 24 2012 18:10 GMT
#354
On August 25 2012 03:09 eleaf wrote:
Man all the information are coming so fast. Now after 'No Kespa Players in Upcoming GSL' we have:

'eSports federation players defer OSL participation'

'KeSPA Agrees to Participate in GSL Season 5'

I did quite follow the next two news since it's my sleep time...

Can anyone clarify will eSports federation players (Nestea, MVP, DRG, MKP, Parting, San) still be in OSL after KeSPA's announcement?


As far as I know, they have yet to make a statement. Probably discussing things over in the back room now.
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
August 24 2012 18:10 GMT
#355
lol that was quick
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
August 24 2012 18:11 GMT
#356
On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote:
Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you:

Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all.

You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make.


u make a written agreement? like what normal businesses do when they do business.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
August 24 2012 18:12 GMT
#357
On August 25 2012 03:08 FairForever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 03:01 Taku wrote:
Hypothetical scenario:

OSL/PL matches are scheduled so they overlap with GSL match times, and Kespa goes on record saying that players/teams are free to choose which one they go with and that they aren't restricting everything. I wonder what would happen...


You know GSL has been very flexible about moving their times to accommodate players who play overseas, I am sure they can find a working resolution to get KeSPA players to play both.

No one's asking them to pick one or the other, your statement has no bearing to the argument at hand.


Stuff like this is why GOM is so likable amongst the foreign community.
MMA: The true King of Wings
OkStyX
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1199 Posts
August 24 2012 18:12 GMT
#358
KeSPA, just got its ass kicked take that ,
Team Overklocked Gaming! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
gedatsu
Profile Joined December 2011
1286 Posts
August 24 2012 18:13 GMT
#359
On August 25 2012 03:06 Jormundr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote:
Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you:

Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all.

You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make.


Wrong. If Kespa agrees to allow players to play through GSL 4 after this whole fiasco, and then they back out, they would lose enough face that they would endanger most of their sponsorships. It's a Korean cultural value thing. You don't want your business to look like scum (at least not completely).

How come this "Korean cultural value thing" applies to GSL4 but not to GSL5? Because they did say they will participate in GSL5. Somehow everyone was telling me that there was no reason to trust that they really meant it.
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 18:16:31
August 24 2012 18:14 GMT
#360
Why is all this shit about "let those poor players decide their destiny", while those players are pretty much a bunch of 18-yo kids, they could have wanted to bathe in champagne with fangirls, it's big companies who cover their asses paying big moneys etc. so players should just do what theyve been told to do or fucking quit and join EG or something. Guess what they chose. It's not about "liberte, egalite, let them do what they want" crap after all, it's all about business and kespa is fucking grandmaster therein.
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