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On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote:
Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you:
Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all.
You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make.
If KeSPA pull out midway, the community out roar will be furious. Different circumstances.
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to be honest ESF should give in and let their players participate now.
Maybe it isn't the fairest thing for them, but not letting them participate will create even more drama and actually do severe dmg to Korean E-sports.
Aslong as KeSPA doesn't back out of this promise it sounds like an acceptable situation for me.
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unless kespa decide to join gsl4 i dont think esf should join osl~ it will accomplish nothing but drama
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On August 25 2012 02:56 Jakkerr wrote:
to be honest ESF should give in and let their players participate now.
Maybe it isn't the fairest thing for them, but not letting them participate will create even more drama and actually do severe dmg to Korean E-sports.
Aslong as KeSPA doesn't back out of this promise it sounds like an acceptable situation for me.
And what makes you think that KeSPA won't back out? Also, I don't think ESF should accept "progaming licenses" from KeSPA since it puts their team under KeSPA control.
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FREEDOM!!!, right out of mother fucking braveheart.
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Did KeSPA ever announce their players will participate in Season 4? Or was it that they will participate in the GSL in the future?
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On August 25 2012 02:58 domane wrote:
Did KeSPA ever announce their players will participate in Season 4? Or was it that they will participate in the GSL in the future?
They havent.
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Hypothetical scenario:
OSL/PL matches are scheduled so they overlap with GSL match times, and Kespa goes on record saying that players/teams are free to choose which one they go with and that they aren't restricting everything. I wonder what would happen...
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On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote:
Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you:
Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all.
You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make.
I agree with you, the best move ESF can make now is play in OSL, Kespa has already backed down and promised they will participate in S5, a formal agreement could be signed to ensure this. It could be considered as their last chance, if they fuck up once again they'd be digging their own grave.
I think the decision to play or not in GSL S4 should be made by the individual teams and not Kespa as a whole, let's not forget that half of them still have to play BW for at least another month.
Or... Stork could just organize a strike and force a reform, but that's dreaming too much 
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On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote:
Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you:
Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all.
You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make.
Wrong. If Kespa agrees to allow players to play through GSL 4 after this whole fiasco, and then they back out, they would lose enough face that they would endanger most of their sponsorships. It's a Korean cultural value thing. You don't want your business to look like scum (at least not completely).
The reason why they have to occur at the same time is this:
The OSL has an audience. It is at least partially exclusive from the audience that the GSL has. This audience is based in KR.
The GSL has an audience. It is at least partially exclusive from the audience that the OSL has. This is an international audience.
Both tournaments want to have the widest audience possible because this generates revenue for their sponsors.
By having GSL players attend OSL, the OSL gains some of the regular viewers of the GSL, as well as the fans of the individual GSL players attending.
The same reasoning works for OSL players attending GSL 4.
By changing their decision on allowing OSL players into GSL 4, Kespa breaks a mutually beneficially agreement, and then says "Oh sorry about that, we'll just use your players for our publicity in OSL and we might throw you a bone next GSL."
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A legally binding, formal agreement from KeSPA is a must.
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On August 25 2012 03:01 Taku wrote:
Hypothetical scenario:
OSL/PL matches are scheduled so they overlap with GSL match times, and Kespa goes on record saying that players/teams are free to choose which one they go with and that they aren't restricting everything. I wonder what would happen...
You know GSL has been very flexible about moving their times to accommodate players who play overseas, I am sure they can find a working resolution to get KeSPA players to play both.
No one's asking them to pick one or the other, your statement has no bearing to the argument at hand.
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Man all the information are coming so fast. Now after 'No Kespa Players in Upcoming GSL' we have:
'eSports federation players defer OSL participation'
'KeSPA Agrees to Participate in GSL Season 5'
I did quite follow the next two news since it's my sleep time...
Can anyone clarify will eSports federation players (Nestea, MVP, DRG, MKP, Parting, San) still be in OSL after KeSPA's announcement?
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On August 25 2012 03:09 eleaf wrote:
Man all the information are coming so fast. Now after 'No Kespa Players in Upcoming GSL' we have:
'eSports federation players defer OSL participation'
'KeSPA Agrees to Participate in GSL Season 5'
I did quite follow the next two news since it's my sleep time...
Can anyone clarify will eSports federation players (Nestea, MVP, DRG, MKP, Parting, San) still be in OSL after KeSPA's announcement?
As far as I know, they have yet to make a statement. Probably discussing things over in the back room now.
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On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote:
Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you:
Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all.
You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make.
u make a written agreement? like what normal businesses do when they do business.
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On August 25 2012 03:08 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 03:01 Taku wrote:
Hypothetical scenario:
OSL/PL matches are scheduled so they overlap with GSL match times, and Kespa goes on record saying that players/teams are free to choose which one they go with and that they aren't restricting everything. I wonder what would happen... You know GSL has been very flexible about moving their times to accommodate players who play overseas, I am sure they can find a working resolution to get KeSPA players to play both. No one's asking them to pick one or the other, your statement has no bearing to the argument at hand.
Stuff like this is why GOM is so likable amongst the foreign community.
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KeSPA, just got its ass kicked take that ,
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On August 25 2012 03:06 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote:
Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you:
Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all.
You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make. Wrong. If Kespa agrees to allow players to play through GSL 4 after this whole fiasco, and then they back out, they would lose enough face that they would endanger most of their sponsorships. It's a Korean cultural value thing. You don't want your business to look like scum (at least not completely).
How come this "Korean cultural value thing" applies to GSL4 but not to GSL5? Because they did say they will participate in GSL5. Somehow everyone was telling me that there was no reason to trust that they really meant it.
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Why is all this shit about "let those poor players decide their destiny", while those players are pretty much a bunch of 18-yo kids, they could have wanted to bathe in champagne with fangirls, it's big companies who cover their asses paying big moneys etc. so players should just do what theyve been told to do or fucking quit and join EG or something. Guess what they chose. It's not about "liberte, egalite, let them do what they want" crap after all, it's all about business and kespa is fucking grandmaster therein.
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EPT
