• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:15
CEST 09:15
KST 16:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview13Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7
Community News
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event9Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster11Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12
StarCraft 2
General
HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation HSC 27 players & groups Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Jumy Talks: Dedication to SC2 in 2025, & more...
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29) $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1 SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House
Brood War
General
NaDa's Body BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - LB Round 4 & 5
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Social coupon sites
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 578 users

eSports federation players defer OSL participation - Page 39

Forum Index > SC2 General
1588 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 37 38 39 40 41 80 Next
Silent_Gentle
Profile Joined March 2012
China9 Posts
August 24 2012 11:44 GMT
#761
Kepsa sucks.
I'm loving this game, SCII
Teodice
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden641 Posts
August 24 2012 11:44 GMT
#762
On August 24 2012 17:56 Integra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 17:52 FliedLice wrote:
here we go again... ?

and to add to that; what exactly was the point with the earlier meeting between Kespa, Blizzard and the none korean Kespa teams? It's obvious now that it just was some kind of PR and no one really meant a fucking thing about what was said.


As Jason Lake from CoL were pretty spot in tbh. Calling it just a show and nothing more then a friendly "Circle jerk". So sad that it was true...

This is nothing but bad bad bad. Can´t we just have fun and play games together?

Looking forward to see what will happen!
You will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not
seenster
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany385 Posts
August 24 2012 11:45 GMT
#763
On August 24 2012 20:39 phoenixfeather95 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 20:37 Dundron2000 wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:32 jellyjello wrote:
Love the responses from Korean fans on the kespa official forum. Kespa have really got themselves into a corner. On the other hand, big props to federation (and Nestea) for showing some balls.


link?


this one i guess

http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=1273725&board=&category=102&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=

searched for content on the official kespa site. allthough i can't understand any korean at all i think i've found the normal fourm with threads and stuff. all the titles i shoved into google translator sound pretty angry.

kespa forum
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4494 Posts
August 24 2012 11:45 GMT
#764
On August 24 2012 20:42 jellyjello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 20:39 JyB wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:32 jellyjello wrote:
Love the responses from Korean fans on the kespa official forum. Kespa have really got themselves into a corner. On the other hand, big props to federation (and Nestea) for showing some balls.

That's kind of a dick move not to share a link or some quotes :p


Sorry I'm on iPad right now. But nothing really important to translate. Just a lot of bit hing at kespa. Fomos is taking a huge hit from the fans too because they put out a few articles that sounded like defending kespa's position.

this is what i love to hear.
hi. big fan.
JyB
Profile Joined January 2012
France466 Posts
August 24 2012 11:46 GMT
#765
On August 24 2012 20:42 jellyjello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 20:39 JyB wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:32 jellyjello wrote:
Love the responses from Korean fans on the kespa official forum. Kespa have really got themselves into a corner. On the other hand, big props to federation (and Nestea) for showing some balls.

That's kind of a dick move not to share a link or some quotes :p


Sorry I'm on iPad right now. But nothing really important to translate. Just a lot of bit hing at kespa. Fomos is taking a huge hit from the fans too because they put out a few articles that sounded like defending kespa's position.


No problem, thanks for sharing
bearhug
Profile Joined September 2010
United States999 Posts
August 24 2012 11:46 GMT
#766
”GOM does not have any direct authority over the GSL players.“
Do you believe what you said?
We are dusts in the vast cosmic arena. Need to make the most out of life when we still have it.
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
August 24 2012 11:46 GMT
#767
On August 24 2012 20:42 vanhio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:30 ragz_gt wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:29 ShadeR wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:13 ragz_gt wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:10 Lazzi wrote:
I don't know if OSL is on the KeSPa's side, maybe ESF did this move to force OSL to pressure KeSPa too.


OSL is part of KeSPA, they sit on KeSPA board. They could break loose from KeSPA but it's HIGHLY unlikely.

Can you show which position OGN occupy?
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


They are ON the board of directors (along with all the sponsors/owners to teams)

quote FXOBoSs:
1) OGN and KESPA are pretty much the same thing. Their interests are extremely common and 1 company is the common party.


http://fxoboss.tumblr.com/post/30093362883/sharpen-the-pitchforks-light-the-torches-kespa-is

Could i have the name of the OGN representative on the board of directors? Am i suppose to take that blog post as fact? Not that it even mentions OGN being on the KeSPA board. I'm not doing this just to be a pain. I've notice you've posted many different things in this thread with conviction and i'm wondering, how does he know this? Why don't i know this?


The name of the OGN representative ! Ahhahahahahaha GOGO TRYHARD RANGER !

But why i don't know this ? WHYYYYYYY ???????/

So we are supposed to take what hes posted as fact on faith?
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6226 Posts
August 24 2012 11:46 GMT
#768
This actually makes me really happy. Go go ESL.
supernovamaniac
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States3046 Posts
August 24 2012 11:47 GMT
#769
On August 24 2012 20:44 goneim wrote:
OMFG, this is huge! Anyone could kindly explain what kind of relationship it is between KeSPA and OGN?

OGN was one of the first game-related channel in Korea, if not the first.

KeSPA was formed later; it's basically run by the group of teams playing in Proleague atm. They have strong connection because back then, OGN and MBCGame were the only stations running KeSPA-related stuff, but they are not 'essentially' the same group.

I can pretty much say that the coaches of the team are more like 'KeSPA' than OGN. I mean, KeSPA almost screwed up OGN in the past, too.
ppp
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
August 24 2012 11:47 GMT
#770
Now it's war, lol!
Both sides busy hurting themselves, too much pride to give in for the greater good.
[TLMS] REBOOT
lothar10
Profile Joined June 2011
New Zealand9 Posts
August 24 2012 11:47 GMT
#771
On August 24 2012 20:17 Fyodor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 20:09 lothar10 wrote:
Anyone know any game theory? If not interested I would skip the rest. If you are, feel free to point out any errors.

This seems like a repeated game of the classic Prisoner's Dilemma
Kespa/OGN on one side and ESF/GOM on the other

Both cooperate with tournament participation and get payoffs of say 3,3
One cooperates and the other doesn't 5,1 - In this case it would be Kespa/OGN getting 5 by having the ESF players still but not giving them to GOM tournaments
Both don't cooperate 1,1

The dominant strategy is to not cooperate/defect which is what both sides have choosen to do at first chance it seems

Although there is an idea of the first game Kespa/OGN defected and ESF/GOM cooperated (when GOM asked for the players and ESF still was giving the players to the OSL)

Seeing that defection, ESF responded with what is known as the "Grim Trigger" strategy which is where cooperation is intially offered until there is defection. If that happens the other side defects and it stays like that forever, both getting a payoff of 1,1. If we had cooperated it would be 3,3 but you defected first and our nice feelings are done.

Game theory ways to get out of this situation?
Unless payoffs change, which could if sponsors react by pulling out money from one side forcing them to change their strategy, the main way is 3rd party involvement. Namely in this case would be Blizzard doing something like saying to both sides 'players must be available to all tournaments if they choose to be or else you will not be allowed to use the servers and therefore not have the tournament'

The third party forces the players into the cooperate & cooperate choice, payoff 3 each, because if they continue to both defect then any defect payoff becomes 0, and cooperate cooperate becomes the dominant strategy .

Just some random thoughts

Prisoner's dilemma only happens when the two players don't know each other's strategy. If they know each other's strategy then the game is easily fixed through negotiation.

Once Blizzard, GOM and OGN are like "come on man this is BS we all suffer from this so cut the crap" then we should see things get solved.

Assuming you are correct about the payoffs though. KeSPA might not see it that way. Maybe gambling on the korean market is the way to go and grab the world market for free once GOM collapses.


They don't know the other players strategies but they do know their payoffs which will influence the other players strategy and therefore their own (the 'best response' idea), hence the basis for game theory.

If Blizzard get involved they ARE the third party that fucks the whole game up in a good way and gets the cooperative outcome.

I guess OGN/Kespa isn't the most accurate way to portray it but couldn't be bothered making a 3 player game
I could eat a knob at night
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
August 24 2012 11:47 GMT
#772
On August 24 2012 20:46 bearhug wrote:
”GOM does not have any direct authority over the GSL players.“
Do you believe what you said?


They don't. The players are doing it for their tournament organizers (as GOM has always been good to them).

The players + teams are just defending the tournament that helped them become famous and earn money.
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5281 Posts
August 24 2012 11:48 GMT
#773
hahaha this is getting huge, I love the drama, the matches that do happen will get 1000X more interesting.
Maybe this is the time where MLG could profit the most if it manages to pull the best players out of both organizations.
Dundron2000
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden1140 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 11:49:34
August 24 2012 11:48 GMT
#774
On August 24 2012 20:46 bearhug wrote:
”GOM does not have any direct authority over the GSL players.“
Do you believe what you said?


i think you are confusing common interests with direct control. they happen to be heavily dependent on each other, that doesnt mean Gom tells e-sports fed. players what they can and cannot do. rather, what is good for Gom is also good for the e-sports fed. players.
n.Die_Jaedong
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
August 24 2012 11:48 GMT
#775
On August 24 2012 20:46 bearhug wrote:
”GOM does not have any direct authority over the GSL players.“
Do you believe what you said?


They don't, ESF players and teams are simply repaying GOM because GOM has supported them since the start of sc2.
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
August 24 2012 11:48 GMT
#776
On August 24 2012 20:45 seenster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 20:39 phoenixfeather95 wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:37 Dundron2000 wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:32 jellyjello wrote:
Love the responses from Korean fans on the kespa official forum. Kespa have really got themselves into a corner. On the other hand, big props to federation (and Nestea) for showing some balls.


link?


this one i guess

http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=1273725&board=&category=102&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=

searched for content on the official kespa site. allthough i can't understand any korean at all i think i've found the normal fourm with threads and stuff. all the titles i shoved into google translator sound pretty angry.

kespa forum

Entertaining indeed

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
bearhug
Profile Joined September 2010
United States999 Posts
August 24 2012 11:49 GMT
#777
On August 24 2012 20:44 Silent_Gentle wrote:
Kepsa sucks.

lol.
gom equally sucks, if not more.
We are dusts in the vast cosmic arena. Need to make the most out of life when we still have it.
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4494 Posts
August 24 2012 11:49 GMT
#778
lmao im using google translate on those articles. lots of cuss words coming up haha
hi. big fan.
rogscorp
Profile Joined December 2011
Korea (South)13 Posts
August 24 2012 11:49 GMT
#779
As some people want translated posts of Korean fans at KeSPA forum, here is a sample post:

"I joined your forum just because I'm angry at you, GaeSPA (it's translated Dog-SPA in Korean)
I'm going to quit after posting this.

Are you going to ruin E-Sports again when popularity of Starcraft is declining in Korea?
That's why people call you GaeSPA.
What the hell are you thinking?

As a person who have been watching Starcraft since iTV, I think you're assholes.

All you are thinking is 'how can we eat GSL up' or 'how can we destroy GSL and occupy Starcraft 2' these kinds of shit.
Are you human?

It's up to players to decide which competition they're going to compete. Who the hell do you think you are to decide which competition to compete?

Stop talking crap about "scheduling issue". I see you through.
Just think what you've done to E-Sports.
Do you think people are going to say "Oh, I see. KeSPA won't participate because of scheduling"?
Do you think we are idiots?
Look what you've done!

I love Starcraft and I want to watch Starcraft till I die, but Esports will die because of assholes like you.

Just die."

It's maybe too strong and emotional, but it's general reaction of fans in Korea to KeSPA.

Life for life.
vanhio
Profile Joined November 2010
Niue1017 Posts
August 24 2012 11:49 GMT
#780
On August 24 2012 20:46 ShadeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 20:42 vanhio wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:30 ragz_gt wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:29 ShadeR wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:13 ragz_gt wrote:
On August 24 2012 20:10 Lazzi wrote:
I don't know if OSL is on the KeSPa's side, maybe ESF did this move to force OSL to pressure KeSPa too.


OSL is part of KeSPA, they sit on KeSPA board. They could break loose from KeSPA but it's HIGHLY unlikely.

Can you show which position OGN occupy?
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


They are ON the board of directors (along with all the sponsors/owners to teams)

quote FXOBoSs:
1) OGN and KESPA are pretty much the same thing. Their interests are extremely common and 1 company is the common party.


http://fxoboss.tumblr.com/post/30093362883/sharpen-the-pitchforks-light-the-torches-kespa-is

Could i have the name of the OGN representative on the board of directors? Am i suppose to take that blog post as fact? Not that it even mentions OGN being on the KeSPA board. I'm not doing this just to be a pain. I've notice you've posted many different things in this thread with conviction and i'm wondering, how does he know this? Why don't i know this?


The name of the OGN representative ! Ahhahahahahaha GOGO TRYHARD RANGER !

But why i don't know this ? WHYYYYYYY ???????/

So we are supposed to take what hes posted as fact on faith?


No !

Who the hell is this clueless guy ?
Prev 1 37 38 39 40 41 80 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 45m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 910
PianO 320
Counter-Strike
summit1g8006
Stewie2K991
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King88
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor145
Other Games
JimRising 389
crisheroes135
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8422
Other Games
gamesdonequick691
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 183
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1511
• Lourlo1347
Upcoming Events
HomeStory Cup
3h 45m
HomeStory Cup
1d 3h
CSO Cup
1d 8h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 10h
SOOP
2 days
SHIN vs ByuN
HomeStory Cup
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV European League
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV European League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Rose Open S1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
HSC XXVII
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.