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On August 24 2012 20:02 shabby wrote:
I'm very interested to see if Blizzard is gonna have to get involved in this, and if so, what will happen.
Probably.
For once, we can thank no-LAN and Blizzard protecting their IP by forbidding tournament organizers from hosting a tournament without their permission.
Best case scenario is KeSPA has to give in (whether they like it or not) and let their players (even b-teamers with no else to do) from participating or trying out the GSL.
Worse case is Blizzard has to get in and prevent KeSPA SC2 accounts from logging into battle.net (which has happened before accidentally to some tournaments).
It will be an embarrassing moment in eSports.
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Ahhh I remember about a year ago or so when noobies to the scene were begging for kespa in sc2 cause they thought it would make everything better. People need to understand kespa only cares about its own power and keeping a monopoly over as much of the korean scene as possible.
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
I'm not going to be able to see MVP vs Flash? T_T
This sucks hard, but Kespa bought this on themselves and I'm glad the ESF are sticking up for GOM in this situation as Kespa fucked them over in the past too.
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huge opportunity wasted with all this goin on =/
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On August 24 2012 20:01 .vid wrote:
well, seeing how far behind kespa players are, this makes sense. they'd just get embarassed in the gsl.. and like fxoboss said, gom really is shit at scheduling.
go kespa, fortunately you can bury sc2 and everyone goes back to brood war :D
They wont go back to BW.
The best thing that can come from this is Kespa wakes up and smells the coffee and works towards a better eSports scene - where the players (or at least their teams) get to decide what tournaments they play in.
At worst we end up with OSL and GSL as two totally distinct tournaments with separate groups of players. I think this will fuck over OGN way more as everyone knows it will be a lower calibre of play and GSL will remain the pinnacle.
At the end of the day I just feel really really bad for all the players.
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Anyone know any game theory? If not interested I would skip the rest. If you are, feel free to point out any errors.
This seems like a repeated game of the classic Prisoner's Dilemma
Kespa/OGN on one side and ESF/GOM on the other
Both cooperate with tournament participation and get payoffs of say 3,3
One cooperates and the other doesn't 5,1 - In this case it would be Kespa/OGN getting 5 by having the ESF players still but not giving them to GOM tournaments
Both don't cooperate 1,1
The dominant strategy is to not cooperate/defect which is what both sides have choosen to do at first chance it seems
Although there is an idea of the first game Kespa/OGN defected and ESF/GOM cooperated (when GOM asked for the players and ESF still was giving the players to the OSL)
Seeing that defection, ESF responded with what is known as the "Grim Trigger" strategy which is where cooperation is intially offered until there is defection. If that happens the other side defects and it stays like that forever, both getting a payoff of 1,1. If we had cooperated it would be 3,3 but you defected first and our nice feelings are done.
Game theory ways to get out of this situation?
Unless payoffs change, which could if sponsors react by pulling out money from one side forcing them to change their strategy, the main way is 3rd party involvement. Namely in this case would be Blizzard doing something like saying to both sides 'players must be available to all tournaments if they choose to be or else you will not be allowed to use the servers and therefore not have the tournament'
The third party forces the players into the cooperate & cooperate choice, payoff 3 each, because if they continue to both defect then any defect payoff becomes 0, and cooperate cooperate becomes the dominant strategy .
Just some random thoughts
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The worst case scenario is KeSPA drops SC2 completely and goes LoL exclusive, and forces the BW pros to play LoL instead.
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On August 24 2012 20:05 HoriZoNXI wrote:
MC & Oz aren't on the list of GSL players boycotting because they aren't part of Esports-Federation (SK, Fnatic)
MC already stated he is with eSF, and his name is in the announcement. Oz haven't declared because he was not in Korea and couldn't be reached.
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On August 24 2012 20:05 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 20:02 shabby wrote:
I'm very interested to see if Blizzard is gonna have to get involved in this, and if so, what will happen. Probably. For once, we can thank no-LAN and Blizzard protecting their IP by forbidding tournament organizers from hosting a tournament without their permission. Best case scenario is KeSPA has to give in (whether they like it or not) and let their players (even b-teamers with no else to do) from participating or trying out the GSL. Worse case is Blizzard has to get in and prevent KeSPA SC2 accounts from logging into battle.net (which has happened before accidentally to some tournaments). It will be an embarrassing moment in eSports.
And then we can see another power outage finals, this time in GSL while OGN's ratings go through the roof with LOL tournaments.
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On August 24 2012 20:05 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 20:02 shabby wrote:
I'm very interested to see if Blizzard is gonna have to get involved in this, and if so, what will happen. Probably. For once, we can thank no-LAN and Blizzard protecting their IP by forbidding tournament organizers from hosting a tournament without their permission. Best case scenario is KeSPA has to give in (whether they like it or not) and let their players (even b-teamers with no else to do) from participating or trying out the GSL. Worse case is Blizzard has to get in and prevent KeSPA SC2 accounts from logging into battle.net (which has happened before accidentally to some tournaments). It will be an embarrassing moment in eSports.
Blizzard better not do anything. KESPA would prefer to blow their brains out or switch to LoL before bowing to Blizzard, You just dont threaten a bunch of Asian Corporations and expects them to comply, do you? No way that is gonna happen in asian culture.
Even FXOBoss is saying if KESPA does something stupid like threaten KESPA, thats it. it will be the end of SC2 in Korea.
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it's all about money. Kespa leaders could give 2 fucks about "e-sports" as long as their checks come in each month.
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Politics at it's finest. I'm in love with this. Hope Kespa sorts it out.
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I really like this decision. While I would have liked to watch the matches, it's more important that kespa can't just bully gom out of business again.
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On August 24 2012 20:09 lothar10 wrote:
Anyone know any game theory? If not interested I would skip the rest. If you are, feel free to point out any errors.
This seems like a repeated game of the classic Prisoner's Dilemma
Kespa/OGN on one side and ESF/GOM on the other
Both cooperate with tournament participation and get payoffs of say 3,3
One cooperates and the other doesn't 5,1 - In this case it would be Kespa/OGN getting 5 by having the ESF players still but not giving them to GOM tournaments
Both don't cooperate 1,1
The dominant strategy is to not cooperate/defect which is what both sides have choosen to do at first chance it seems
Although there is an idea of the first game Kespa/OGN defected and ESF/GOM cooperated (when GOM asked for the players and ESF still was giving the players to the OSL)
Seeing that defection, ESF responded with what is known as the "Grim Trigger" strategy which is where cooperation is intially offered until there is defection. If that happens the other side defects and it stays like that forever, both getting a payoff of 1,1. If we had cooperated it would be 3,3 but you defected first and our nice feelings are done.
Game theory ways to get out of this situation?
Unless payoffs change, which could if sponsors react by pulling out money from one side forcing them to change their strategy, the main way is 3rd party involvement. Namely in this case would be Blizzard doing something like saying to both sides 'players must be available to all tournaments if they choose to be or else you will not be allowed to use the servers and therefore not have the tournament'
The third party forces the players into the cooperate & cooperate choice, payoff 3 each, because if they continue to both defect then any defect payoff becomes 0, and cooperate cooperate becomes the dominant strategy .
Just some random thoughts
Game series is fun as exercises... in real life there are too many complex factors for it to make really apply.
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I don't know if OSL is on the KeSPa's side, maybe ESF did this move to force OSL to pressure KeSPa too.
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On August 24 2012 20:05 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 20:02 shabby wrote:
I'm very interested to see if Blizzard is gonna have to get involved in this, and if so, what will happen. Probably. For once, we can thank no-LAN and Blizzard protecting their IP by forbidding tournament organizers from hosting a tournament without their permission. Best case scenario is KeSPA has to give in (whether they like it or not) and let their players (even b-teamers with no else to do) from participating or trying out the GSL. Worse case is Blizzard has to get in and prevent KeSPA SC2 accounts from logging into battle.net (which has happened before accidentally to some tournaments). It will be an embarrassing moment in eSports.
best case:
Blizzard sites with KESPA.
GOM host on pirated lan version.
Blizzard sues GOM and looses.
GOM gets more viewers and KESPA dies.
GOM Teams take all KESPA players
=
-Sc2 tournaments with lan lagency and all players.
-Every korean player can go to every tournament he wants to go.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 24 2012 20:07 Sp00ly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 20:01 .vid wrote:
well, seeing how far behind kespa players are, this makes sense. they'd just get embarassed in the gsl.. and like fxoboss said, gom really is shit at scheduling.
go kespa, fortunately you can bury sc2 and everyone goes back to brood war :D They wont go back to BW. The best thing that can come from this is Kespa wakes up and smells the coffee and works towards a better eSports scene - where the players (or at least their teams) get to decide what tournaments they play in. At worst we end up with OSL and GSL as two totally distinct tournaments with separate groups of players. I think this will fuck over OGN way more as everyone knows it will be a lower calibre of play and GSL will remain the pinnacle. At the end of the day I just feel really really bad for all the players.
I doubt it GSL will remain the pinnacle with players like Effort, Rain, Jaedong, Roro.. already taking games from Top GOM players (Seed, Gumiho, Drg,...). I give it 1 more season of GSL before GOM players will start to lag behind. Mainly because of the ridiculously strict practice regime the Kespa players have.
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On August 24 2012 20:10 Lazzi wrote:
I don't know if OSL is on the KeSPa's side, maybe ESF did this move to force OSL to pressure KeSPa too.
OSL is part of KeSPA, they sit on KeSPA board. They could break loose from KeSPA but it's HIGHLY unlikely.
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Ahhh I remember about a year ago or so when noobies to the scene were begging for kespa in sc2 cause they thought it would make everything better. People need to understand kespa only cares about its own power and keeping a monopoly over as much of the korean scene as possible.
Isnt it the other way around?
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Well, this is bad for me as a spectator, but as a SC2 fan I fully support GOM and ESF. I never followed BW, so I always thought the rumours of Kespa's dickishness had to be somewhat exaggerated.
Guess not.
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EPT
