Check Six Disbands - Page 9

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[UoN]Sentinel

United States11320 Posts

August 15 2012 01:41 GMT

#161

Sour bout losing Maximusblack

In all honesty though, great team while it lasted.

Takezou

United States320 Posts

August 15 2012 01:43 GMT

#162

On August 15 2012 10:39 Xeris wrote:
I'm not spending my life savings on LighT. Doing pretty well for myself thus far

Seems like an unnecessary shot to take at a bad time.... Maybe show some grace as Nazgul did?

paddyz

Ireland628 Posts

August 15 2012 01:46 GMT

#163

Was expecting this, still a little sad to see another team disbanding. Wonder if it will effect azide in any way.

VPreboot

United States132 Posts

August 15 2012 01:53 GMT

#164

On August 15 2012 10:09 KeyHunt wrote:

Show nested quote +

I certainly hope you're right. If the only problem is simply how CheckSix was ran..then that is fantastic and we should see newer teams break in without having to spend their life savings any day now.

Of course there are elements of chance, I don't want to deny that. And people need money in order to get players, results and personalities, which you need to get sponsors, which you need to get money, which you need to get players, results, and personalities. The difference between new start-up team X and CheckSix is that CheckSix BEGAN with a good pedigree, a good (i assume) amount of money and an experienced management team (again, I'm assuming here, but I think these are good guesses) and nothing happened. You got players like Sleep and didn't promote him. You got players like Suppy and ThisisJimmy (who went on great runs in 2010 and 2011 MLGs) who were never advertised as the new hip thing. You had celebrities like Painuser, HDstarcraft and Maximus Black who were never used as marketing tools. Your last written article on your site is from May. Your featured articles are ancient, from nearly a year ago. Now, I don't know everything behind the decision, but from what was said here I would have to say that the major fault of this team lay within the managements inability to create marketing opportunities from this incredible list of pros. Suppy was writing for the ESEA last season, why not get him to write stuff for your site? Why not get a few volunteers to do written content? Why not do showmatches with HD and Painuser to advertise? When you had major, why not work with Artosis to create regular 'Major in Korea' content?
To your point, it takes more than good management decisions to get to the big leagues. There has not been a good example of a team coming from out of nowhere to make it to EG's level. Its Gosu and Infinity Seven are probably the best examples of teams getting to near that level, but nobody has ever truly made it there. There is no one reason that teams can't make it there, but coming from 7 years of experience in esports and already having sponsors means that CheckSix didn't come from nowhere. CheckSix had the resources to create the elements above and if more effort was put in on the marketing and production side it probably would have been a success. Instead The management decided to squat on what they had and not do anything with it.

This is a little harsh I think, but I think that the point has to sink in: getting to EGs level is not impossible, but people have to use the best cards they have. CheckSix had a great deck, but didn't use any of their cards.

PhillyWild

United States59 Posts

August 15 2012 01:54 GMT

#165

On August 15 2012 10:40 KeyHunt wrote:
I really do not have the strength to argue about this; nor do I want to. Once again, it all comes back to you have your own opinion I just disagree.

I can respect that, I'm not looking for a drawn out argument. We can just agree to disagree. Just sad to see you guys go.

My well wishes to your future opportunities was sincere btw.

StarStruck

25339 Posts

August 15 2012 02:04 GMT

#166

On August 15 2012 09:40 shinyA wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 15 2012 09:26 StarStruck wrote:

On August 15 2012 07:19 shinyA wrote:

On August 15 2012 06:58 VPCursed wrote:
not to sound like a complete fucking dick or anything but, you guys were sending ailuj to every event... whose a diamond player.
idfk what you expected when the person in control of your finances doesn't understand that diamond players aren't going to get results at mlg. Also being in contact with many of your players it seems to me you guys had very little direction with your team. seemingly having no control over what your players do and how they practice. It didn't appear you had a coach or anything of the sort to help your players grow.
I am personally disgusted that you guys seem to think that you couldn't improve without spending " copious " amounts of money in your leaving statement. It was just complete incompetence. I hope this will serve as a warning to future teams and as a learning bench on how not to utilize a team with a strong roster. GL to the players on your roster, I hope they can find a team in the near future.

As a former player for Check SIx, I agree with this.

I enjoyed my time in the team because the players in the team were great and one of my best friends was the sc2 manager at the time. The 'Check Six philosophy' though was completely flawed. They put more priority on their management than their players, it always felt like they thought that the 'team' was above the player. They were in a position where so many up and coming teams wish they were at; they had financial and gear sponsors and very skilled players. They won 2 ESEA's and got second in one, if I remember correctly. That's over $10,000 that the players earned them but what did the players that earned them that money get? Nothing except travel to MLG's , which is as much a benefit to the team as it is to the player.

They put more priority in bringing in personalities rather than players. They had Julia, PainUser, HD, and MaximusBlack getting as much or more from the team than the actual players. Why did Suppy go to EG? Because he wasn't contracted by xSix. How pathetic is that? Especially after his run at MLG they still didn't have him contracted, I think I heard him say that EG didn't even approach him until after he qualfiied for ASUS ROG. That means even after he did so well at MLG and after he showed what an amazing player he is, xSix still wasn't going to contract him until another team did. It happened in the past with other players on the team, they basically had the mindset of 'why pay a player unless we have to?'. I'm sure they scrambled to try to get Suppy to stay after he was contacted by EG but what a slap in the face! It's like saying "you weren't worth contracting before, but now that EG wants you we'll try to keep you".

I knew this was going to happen long, long ago. It's the result of incompetence and bad management philosophy. The players are what's most important, if that wasn't the case then why would you disband? You lost your best players but you still had the people who you put in a higher priority than the players that left! You still had Julia, HD, PU, and MaximusBlack, why disband? Because the players who are actually competing for you are what's important and you failed to realize that long ago. You should have promoted your players, made them famous. Not try to bring in already famous people and put them ahead of your players. Look at EG, they got a group of players and then marketed the hell out of them. They made their players into personalities, not recruit personalites and try to make them players.

This doesn't mean they were bad people or anything like that, I really liked Curt, Zax, Vhalin and Fuji. They're great people, I just think the way they went about leading and managing the team was wrong.

I can understand the frustration with the management and I've seen it happen time and time again.

However, your assessment of EG is flawed. Guys like IdrA, Incontrol, HuK, Thorzain, etc. were all established players/personalities before they got signed. I could even make an agreement for everyone else who came from a BW/WCIII background. What EG & it's sponsors do well is the fact they highlight their players and plug them constantly so you don't forget. Very good branding, so your argument losses it's weight. It's a bad example but I get the message you wanted to get across.

We'll be seeing a lot more teams fold.

In the very beginning EG got most of the known BW USA guys. IncontroL, Machine, LzGameR, IdrA, iNkA, PsyonicReaver, Colbi, etc were all recruited into EG before SC2 was even released. The foreign BW scene was incredibly small compared to the foreign sc2 scene, so to say that they were established before EG is a little bit of a stretch. IncontroL and IdrA have a bit more of a case but the rest of their original players weren't famous or anything and even inc and idra were limited to non-korean bw relevance which isn't that much, athough Geoff was on a little reality show thing for WCG.

EG had their players and went with it, they marketed the hell out of them and made them into personalities. The recruits since then are obviously a different case, I wasn't referring to HuK, ThorZaiN, etc. But originally they took players and made them what they are.

I don't need a history lesson man. I was there. ._. I stick by what I said. A lot of them were already personalities before EG even got a hold of them. It's part of their recruitment criteria which A.G. even posted.

Our community wasn't that small at all. It's only small when you compare it to what it is now in the international scene; however, when it comes to scouting talent. It was just as problematic back then. IdrA made himself relevant for always opening his mouth when he statistically didn't have much to back it up until that one year he broke out after training so long in Korea. Everyone else was part-time. He was full-time. Geoff always had it in him. He has been articulate ever since I can remember. So no. EG didn't brand him at all. They came along for the ride in seeing his value. Geoff had it in him since his 88) days. I don't always see eye-to-eye with the guy and he hasn't changed much since then. He's the same Geoff.

What A.G. did was buy a group of players who were friends and living together. They already had value and that's one of the reasons he picked them up.

PhillyWild

United States59 Posts

August 15 2012 02:04 GMT

#167

On August 15 2012 10:53 VPreboot wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 15 2012 10:09 KeyHunt wrote:

On August 15 2012 09:51 PhillyWild wrote:
RIP Check-Six, a cautionary tale of how NOT to run a Pro Gaming franchise. (No offense)

Truth is that esports is a fickle industry. Like running any successful small business, you have to be on top of your game from top to bottom and take advantage of EACH and EVERY business/marketing/competitive opportunity you can get. Support ALL of your players, don't pay them lip service, you signed them for a reason. People are making a big deal about management shelling out money for a Headset and Keyboard? Hell, that's the LEAST a team should do for a player. The players are the faces of the team. They are their investments. The team should do everything in their power to provide the players with the best opportunities to improve and perform BECAUSE it helps the team as well. Provide a foundation for each individual player to improve. Sponsor events. Promote the HELL out of what you have and show the world why they should pay attention to your brand.

This is the problem with NA teams today, no one's heart is in it. No one wants to do the dirty work. Yeah, money is nice to have, but xSix HAD the financial backing at one point and blatantly refused to take advantage of it. They signed Sleep and did nothing with him, they had Suppy for months prior to him leaving and did nothing with him, they had MaximusBlack for over seven months and expanded their fanbase and what did that get them? What did they do with it? A couple photo ops and mentions on his stream...a few T-shirt sales...that's it. It really seems like Check-Six wasn't a TEAM, they were a group of individuals. And management expected them to handle the leg work. This isn't a death knell to NA pro teams, but it is a wake-up call to them and a lesson to those who are looking at forming pro-level teams in the future.

Even smaller teams can heed this advice. Take advantage of what you have in every way possible. Not every NA team can be EG, but not every fast food joint can be McDonalds either. Even in that industry where McDs is the 800 lb gorilla, there are several who do well with what they have. Just have a solid plan of attack, business structure, and members willing to do whatever it takes to see it succeed. Failure is unavoidable and more teams will fail in the future but if out of say 12-15 new teams, if there's a chance of 2 or 3 to become established and survive then its worth the risk.

Otherwise, why would anyone attempt to start a business?

KeyHunt

United States218 Posts

August 15 2012 02:15 GMT

#168

On August 15 2012 10:53 VPreboot wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 15 2012 10:09 KeyHunt wrote:

To your point, it takes more than good management decisions to get to the big leagues. There has not been a good example of a team coming from out of nowhere to make it to EG's level. Its Gosu and Infinity Seven are probably the best examples of teams getting to near that level, but nobody has ever truly made it there. There is no one reason that teams can't make it there, but coming from 7 years of experience in esports and already having sponsors means that CheckSix didn't come from nowhere. CheckSix had the resources to create the elements above and if more effort was put in on the marketing and production side it probably would have been a success. Instead The management decided to squat on what they had and not do anything with it.

This is a little harsh I think, but I think that the point has to sink in: getting to EGs level is not impossible, but people have to use the best cards they have. CheckSix had a great deck, but didn't use any of their cards.

It's not that your suggestions are not sound..it's that in our climate, they were not feasible. I want you to realize that just having things at your disposal does not mean you can call upon them to do the things you suggest. Once again, your suggestions are sound you are just not privy to the same information. If you want to know about a little more of that information, I will be happy to share some in private..but a public forum is not the place.

LaM

United States1321 Posts

August 15 2012 02:21 GMT

#169

This is really sad. I have played against x6 for many years (used to always meet their squads when I played competitive Battlefield and Counter-Strike). Always quality guys.

I don't hold EG's size against them, but there is no doubt that the super teams that have emerged in NA make it difficult for mid level teams to thrive. And I'm talking multigaming organizations when I say that. Teams like ROOT etc... can spring up because they are largely player run and specific to one game.

Oh well. Goodbye Check Six.

Catatonic

United States699 Posts

August 15 2012 02:31 GMT

#170

Not sure how losing your best player helps you but what ever haha. Unfortunate but it happens :/

walklightwhat

Australia752 Posts

August 15 2012 02:32 GMT

#171

This is a shame. I've been waiting for guys like Mkengyn and Mystik to have big breakouts.

Hopefully all the players are able to find teams and continue playing SC2 seriously.

stratmatt

United States913 Posts

August 15 2012 02:34 GMT

#172

wow its almost as if in the game of life there are winners and there are losers. crazy aint it?!?!

conz

United Kingdom163 Posts

August 15 2012 02:35 GMT

#173

Remember them from my 1.6 days, sad.

sPaG

United States3 Posts

August 15 2012 02:51 GMT

#174

I remember playing with xSix & EG back in the old days of cs 1.5-1.6 era... While I never quite got along with alot of their players, I will say that as a team trying to work their way up through CALi we did hold alot of respect for xSix and all they were able to accomplish as they found their way into the spotlight. Any pro gaming team to have been around for as long as you guys deserve alot of props, It's no easy feat. Perhaps you never reached the pinnacle of gaming/truly hit your end goal as a team; but there are alot of fans out there like myself who saw you guys over the years and hold alot of respect for what you guys stood for. As a community we're all in this together - we need to support great organizations like xSix if we want to one day legitimize ESports on a serious level.