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there's a reason why these guys were able to qualify. there is no need to be concerned about the skill level of anybody that made it through the Korean and to a certain extent even the European qualifiers. and it's an american event so there's gonna be Americans there.
i agree it's a little unfortunate that players like DRG and MKP won't be able to attend, but you can watch them play in so many tournaments all the time you'll be able to get your fix of them. matter of fact, the reason they can't attend is of course because they have other tournaments going on around the same time, so you can still watch them play on MLG weekend if you wish to do so. in the meantime, MLG will give a number of other badasses of comparable skill level - some of which we haven't seen a lot of lately - the chance to show their play. really looking forward to seeing Top back in action for example.
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On July 11 2012 03:23 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 03:21 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 03:13 Hot_Bid wrote:On July 11 2012 02:57 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 02:53 Hot_Bid wrote:On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote:
So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin. People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens. Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process. Hot bid I love you, but the thing is DRG and MKP were qualified for the arena but cant attend because of GSL and OSL. I was saying these guys qualified and can't go because they are playing in two better tournaments. I understand you are mad because Taeja and Hero are in it an I said I was a weak field, and yes they are probably two of the favorites, but it's weaker than normal. I am frankly getting very tired of people accusing Liquid bias every time I state an opinion about things. I feel that it is possible for me to cheer for players while remaining impartial in analysis, you don't have to yell "you work for TL therefore your opinion is discounted." It's very tiring and such a disrespectful thing to do every time. The very fact that our TSL is open qualifiers and not invite should speak to the lack of bias toward Liquid guys, if we wanted to we could just invite most of the Liquid team but we didn't. But here, where there's no real impact except for arguing against someone on the internet, I'm too offended because you're insulting a field that includes a few Liquid guys? Come on. MLG created a format that requires attendance to their events, and created an incentive for players to show up to them. They separated seasons so this could happen. This was a big complaint about their format last time and they listened to the feedback and changed. Yes, it is unfortunate that scheduling conflicts happened and the two biggest name guys aren't coming. However, in general fans put way too much value into name and disrespect just how tight and cutthroat the Korean scene is when it comes to skill level. One or two names does not break the overall skill of the field. It appears it does impact the perception of the skill of the field, but I suppose that's just something that we'll have to accept since fans overvalue big names. Well if you did that, nobody would take tsl4 seriously so you didn't have much of a choice. And I never said your opinion was discounted, I actually believe the opposite, that it's more than most everybody here, I just thought you were mad because I called a field with the two best liquid guys "weaker." I apologize. And I'm only really saying this because of how big of a DRG fan I am, not that these players aren't good, but DRG is the most successful player of 2012 and MKp is probably second and neither of them not being here, for sure lowers the skill level. But it will be nice to see games from players I don't often see. I don't like this attitude. Just because DRG/MKP were the most successful of 2012 with respect to the sum of their achievements doesn't mean that they're the best players or even a level above everyone else. MKP isn't exactly tearing up GSL right now and DRG has a pretty big rival in Symbol. There are a lot of players in Korea who could give DRG/MKP a serious run for their money on any given day. They just haven't won as much this year, yet.
At MLg alone, which obviously this is an MLG, you can't argue they have been by far the two best MLg players for the past 4 out of 5 MLGs
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Austria24422 Posts
On July 11 2012 03:23 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 03:21 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 03:13 Hot_Bid wrote:On July 11 2012 02:57 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 02:53 Hot_Bid wrote:On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote:
So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin. People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens. Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process. Hot bid I love you, but the thing is DRG and MKP were qualified for the arena but cant attend because of GSL and OSL. I was saying these guys qualified and can't go because they are playing in two better tournaments. I understand you are mad because Taeja and Hero are in it an I said I was a weak field, and yes they are probably two of the favorites, but it's weaker than normal. I am frankly getting very tired of people accusing Liquid bias every time I state an opinion about things. I feel that it is possible for me to cheer for players while remaining impartial in analysis, you don't have to yell "you work for TL therefore your opinion is discounted." It's very tiring and such a disrespectful thing to do every time. The very fact that our TSL is open qualifiers and not invite should speak to the lack of bias toward Liquid guys, if we wanted to we could just invite most of the Liquid team but we didn't. But here, where there's no real impact except for arguing against someone on the internet, I'm too offended because you're insulting a field that includes a few Liquid guys? Come on. MLG created a format that requires attendance to their events, and created an incentive for players to show up to them. They separated seasons so this could happen. This was a big complaint about their format last time and they listened to the feedback and changed. Yes, it is unfortunate that scheduling conflicts happened and the two biggest name guys aren't coming. However, in general fans put way too much value into name and disrespect just how tight and cutthroat the Korean scene is when it comes to skill level. One or two names does not break the overall skill of the field. It appears it does impact the perception of the skill of the field, but I suppose that's just something that we'll have to accept since fans overvalue big names. Well if you did that, nobody would take tsl4 seriously so you didn't have much of a choice. And I never said your opinion was discounted, I actually believe the opposite, that it's more than most everybody here, I just thought you were mad because I called a field with the two best liquid guys "weaker." I apologize. And I'm only really saying this because of how big of a DRG fan I am, not that these players aren't good, but DRG is the most successful player of 2012 and MKp is probably second and neither of them not being here, for sure lowers the skill level. But it will be nice to see games from players I don't often see. I don't like this attitude. Just because DRG/MKP were the most successful of 2012 with respect to the sum of their achievements doesn't mean that they're the best players or even a level above everyone else. MKP isn't exactly tearing up GSL right now and DRG has a pretty big rival in Symbol. There are a lot of players in Korea who could give DRG/MKP a serious run for their money on any given day. They just haven't won as much this year, yet.
It just so happens that Taeja, who knocked both MKP and DRG out of GSL over the course of the last two seasons and HerO, who just 5-2d DRG are here!
I personally love to see lesser known players in action and I sure as hell won't complain about HerO and Taeja being there.
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On July 11 2012 03:14 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 03:09 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 11 2012 03:05 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 03:04 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 11 2012 02:59 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 02:54 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote:
So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible. And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up. 2 arenas like last time? Im not mad at MLG, I'm just saying its stupid how 2 out of the top 3 of your spring champs. Will be in open next event LOL its not stupid, they are separate seasons. You don't get a playoffs spot for winning the super bowl the previous year Those are two completely different things. Actually they aren't. Spring and summer are different mlg seasons. Just like different football seasons If you want to relate this to football which is stupid, I'll tell you what it's like. DrG is the giants, MkP is the 49ers. DRG just won the Super Bowl and MKP lost in the NFC finals. Well say that the arena is like the regular season and the top 16 in the regular season get into the division round of the playoffs (seeds at raleigh.) the giants and 49ers cant play in the regular season and are forced to be at a major disadvantage in the playoffs (play in the wild card game or open bracket) the giants and 49ers are clearly better than 90% of the population of the regular season on a bad day.
You are trying to make the formats same, which is not what I'm saying. I'm saying how being in a championship one season shouldn't mean you are in a championship the next season. Like any sport. MLG did that last year, everyone hated it.
DRG and MKP are more than good enough to go through the open bracket. And if they lose there, thats there fault, not MLG's. They chose GSL/OSL over MLG. Why the hell would MLG say, oh thats ok we are still going to seed you into our championship? Thats stupid.
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On July 11 2012 03:22 Canucklehead wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 03:20 Fionn wrote:
Wonder why Polt isn't going. Maybe he realized that to get back into Code S he needs to focus in Korea for a while? Probably WCS. Every korean except the top 10 in GSL points has to qualify for WCS. Only hero and taeja are in top 10 out of this arena list, which means every korean there will be skipping WCS qualifiers, if this is a confirmed list.
I'm much more certain that it's because of GSTL semis, which is the same weekend. Same reason why most other TSL guys declined (Revival still going for some reason).
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On July 11 2012 02:45 jobber123rd wrote:It's GoldenLighT, not Light.Golden  It'll be interesting to see how the Koreans not in the GSL top 10 (and not living abroad) choose between this and the WCS offline preliminaries. A lot of attention is given to MKP's situation, but this affects more than just him. Edit: so I guess the guys listed aren't trying WCS? (other than the ones who may be in the top 10)
The names are what they've signed up to MLG as, not their handles.
It's kinda sad that 4 out of 6 "NA" players are American, the other 2 are Koreans... I wonder why the NA scene is lacking in quality compared to Europe or Korea. Well, I don't wonder about Korea, but still. Illusion fighting! I guess.
Looks like an awesome lineup as always, arena games are usually awesome due to less nerves affecting gameplay created by the crowds. And I don't have to pay this time.
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On July 11 2012 03:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 03:23 Shiori wrote:On July 11 2012 03:21 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 03:13 Hot_Bid wrote:On July 11 2012 02:57 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 02:53 Hot_Bid wrote:On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote:
So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin. People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens. Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process. Hot bid I love you, but the thing is DRG and MKP were qualified for the arena but cant attend because of GSL and OSL. I was saying these guys qualified and can't go because they are playing in two better tournaments. I understand you are mad because Taeja and Hero are in it an I said I was a weak field, and yes they are probably two of the favorites, but it's weaker than normal. I am frankly getting very tired of people accusing Liquid bias every time I state an opinion about things. I feel that it is possible for me to cheer for players while remaining impartial in analysis, you don't have to yell "you work for TL therefore your opinion is discounted." It's very tiring and such a disrespectful thing to do every time. The very fact that our TSL is open qualifiers and not invite should speak to the lack of bias toward Liquid guys, if we wanted to we could just invite most of the Liquid team but we didn't. But here, where there's no real impact except for arguing against someone on the internet, I'm too offended because you're insulting a field that includes a few Liquid guys? Come on. MLG created a format that requires attendance to their events, and created an incentive for players to show up to them. They separated seasons so this could happen. This was a big complaint about their format last time and they listened to the feedback and changed. Yes, it is unfortunate that scheduling conflicts happened and the two biggest name guys aren't coming. However, in general fans put way too much value into name and disrespect just how tight and cutthroat the Korean scene is when it comes to skill level. One or two names does not break the overall skill of the field. It appears it does impact the perception of the skill of the field, but I suppose that's just something that we'll have to accept since fans overvalue big names. Well if you did that, nobody would take tsl4 seriously so you didn't have much of a choice. And I never said your opinion was discounted, I actually believe the opposite, that it's more than most everybody here, I just thought you were mad because I called a field with the two best liquid guys "weaker." I apologize. And I'm only really saying this because of how big of a DRG fan I am, not that these players aren't good, but DRG is the most successful player of 2012 and MKp is probably second and neither of them not being here, for sure lowers the skill level. But it will be nice to see games from players I don't often see. I don't like this attitude. Just because DRG/MKP were the most successful of 2012 with respect to the sum of their achievements doesn't mean that they're the best players or even a level above everyone else. MKP isn't exactly tearing up GSL right now and DRG has a pretty big rival in Symbol. There are a lot of players in Korea who could give DRG/MKP a serious run for their money on any given day. They just haven't won as much this year, yet. It just so happens that Taeja, who knocked both MKP and DRG out of GSL over the course of the last two seasons and HerO, who just 5-2d DRG are here! I personally love to see lesser known players in action and I sure as hell won't complain about HerO and Taeja being there.
Yes I know there are a lot of good players here, I never questioned that, I also said that I like seeing players I can't see as often, I just said this is the weakest player line up at an MLG because MC,DRG, MKP, Symbol, and others like that, won't be attending and I just thought that since DRG won and MKP got third and both have been dominating MLG all year. That its funny they don't have a choice but to play from open. But there isn't really anything that can be done, conflicts happen
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On July 11 2012 03:17 ToD wrote:
how do the invites work for each qualifier ? never heard about this, would have loved to play
i'm pretty sure you had teammates play in the qualifiers.
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On July 11 2012 02:50 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote:
For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong. So you want to see worse games?
And the reason why Americans are not performing that well is because the American scene does not care about them. So the reason why we would get to see worse games is because there is no major Tournament organization in the States that care about growing up new American progamers.
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I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
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On July 11 2012 03:27 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 03:14 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 03:09 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 11 2012 03:05 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 03:04 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 11 2012 02:59 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 02:54 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote:
So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible. And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up. 2 arenas like last time? Im not mad at MLG, I'm just saying its stupid how 2 out of the top 3 of your spring champs. Will be in open next event LOL its not stupid, they are separate seasons. You don't get a playoffs spot for winning the super bowl the previous year Those are two completely different things. Actually they aren't. Spring and summer are different mlg seasons. Just like different football seasons If you want to relate this to football which is stupid, I'll tell you what it's like. DrG is the giants, MkP is the 49ers. DRG just won the Super Bowl and MKP lost in the NFC finals. Well say that the arena is like the regular season and the top 16 in the regular season get into the division round of the playoffs (seeds at raleigh.) the giants and 49ers cant play in the regular season and are forced to be at a major disadvantage in the playoffs (play in the wild card game or open bracket) the giants and 49ers are clearly better than 90% of the population of the regular season on a bad day. You are trying to make the formats same, which is not what I'm saying. I'm saying how being in a championship one season shouldn't mean you are in a championship the next season. Like any sport. MLG did that last year, everyone hated it. DRG and MKP are more than good enough to go through the open bracket. And if they lose there, thats there fault, not MLG's. They chose GSL/OSL over MLG. Why the hell would MLG say, oh thats ok we are still going to seed you into our championship? Thats stupid. that is true,
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On July 11 2012 03:32 Xacez wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 02:50 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote:
For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong. So you want to see worse games? And the reason why Americans are not performing that well is because the American scene does not care about them. So the reason why we would get to see worse games is because there is no major Tournament organization in the States that care about growing up new American progamers.
No I do care about them, but Koreans fr the most part are better, an I like seeing better games
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I don't know why anyone would call that bracket "weak". Only because some of the big names are missing doesn't mean the koreans there are bad. Especially because most of the went through the qualifiers and beat players like MMA or Nestea who attempted to qualify but failed. Apart from this the foreigner lineup looks ver strong with players like Stephano and Nerchio in there. Players who can compete with the GSL-elite.
I very much look forward to this event. Some newer names both from the foreigner and as well as the korean scene and players like IPL4-winner Alive or Nerchio. This tournament is very hard to predict and that makes it exciting.
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On July 11 2012 03:34 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 03:32 Xacez wrote:On July 11 2012 02:50 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote:
For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong. So you want to see worse games? And the reason why Americans are not performing that well is because the American scene does not care about them. So the reason why we would get to see worse games is because there is no major Tournament organization in the States that care about growing up new American progamers. No I do care about them, but Koreans fr the most part are better, an I like seeing better games
Although I like to watch good games, I would like to see leagues support NA more. It is annoying as hell that they just have fewer spots in the arena. Beyond MGL and NASL, there are few major tournaments in the NA and all of them out of their way to pull in as many Koreans as possible. How is a better local scene supposed to develope if all the leagues are just pulling players from over seas for all their events?
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Braavos36402 Posts
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote:
I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
I wouldn't really use Violet as an example of NA doing well at MLG
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WHERE IS TASTELESS?!?!?!?
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On July 11 2012 03:43 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 03:34 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 03:32 Xacez wrote:On July 11 2012 02:50 TommyP wrote:On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote:
For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong. So you want to see worse games? And the reason why Americans are not performing that well is because the American scene does not care about them. So the reason why we would get to see worse games is because there is no major Tournament organization in the States that care about growing up new American progamers. No I do care about them, but Koreans fr the most part are better, an I like seeing better games Although I like to watch good games, I would like to see leagues support NA more. It is annoying as hell that they just have fewer spots in the arena. Beyond MGL and NASL, there are few major tournaments in the NA and all of them out of their way to pull in as many Koreans as possible. How is a better local scene supposed to develope if all the leagues are just pulling players from over seas for all their events?
It's very hard to balance star power and opportunities for new players.
Remember what the guys from DreamHack said about not having Greg Fields at their tournament (state of the game Episode 67), viewership from North America plummeted.
Personally, this is the same reason I don't watch dreamhack or Homestory, I don't care about those players.
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I just liked the two arenas. We got a 2v2 tournament and the top 8 from winter had a 50% chance of gettin a seed, which as you can tell from my precious posts, I like
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sweet, looking forward to it!
i hope that artosis is gonna cast with day... it will be the analytical overkill (in a good way) xD
but why is tasteless not there!?!
now i can't wear my "tasteless homeboy" t-shirt :/
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No MKP makes me a really sad panda :'(
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EPT
