EPTReluctance to Re-Introduce BW-Units - Page 25
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On June 18 2012 16:54 Roth wrote: Blizzard is doin a great job by creating newly designed units. And those of you who complain about the new Units like the colossus, the infestor or something else need not to play Starcraft 2. Just by creating any new unit, Blizzard does a great job? could you set the bar any lower? Maybe your a guy who plays a game for a few months or maybe a year, but lots of players want games like CS and CS that they can play for decades that mature esports communities can develop around. You know, I want to watch Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, etc. play Sc2 for a long time, but if the game isn't good enough they may just retire or go to LoL or something. I barely even play, I'm a SC fan and I now that I will soon only be able to watch SC2, I hardly think you can honestly suggest I be complacent with whatever the crap SC2 turns out to be, regardless of any flaws. A community like that of BW only develops around an amazing game that thousands of players fall in love with and stay in love with for many years. Those games only happen very rarely. IMO, Counter-Strike and Brood War are the only to reach that pinnacle so far. | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
On June 17 2012 01:08 GGzerG wrote: I really wish that SC2 was just a 3D BW, and I also think that SC2 : BW is probably more fun / better game than the actual SC2. I hope that Blizzard makes a complete remake of BW one day in 3D, that would be sick. But for now you just either have to play BW or play SC2, or both like me. :D that's just stupid. If Broodwar didn't kick off 10 years ago, what made you think it would now given that the gaming market is hundred times more competitive and general gamers today have their taste and style changed? | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:20 Jumperer wrote: Yes I don't know anything about game design or anything but I like SC2 because it's the only esport game i've ever seen or known so it's awesome. colossus? Awesome unit, I like how big it is and the laser that comes out of it when it attack is pretty awesome. Way to contribute to the discussion buddy. You ignored the entire thread and type the same thing that every 5 years old sc2 says. Using your logic, Star Wars Episode II is better than Star Wars Episode IV because it's newer. Nobody wants SC2 to become BW. We just want to play a better game not a watered down C&C with half assed SC units. At the rate this game design pattern is going, It's not going to last very long after the last expansion pack. People will get sick of deathball vs deathball battle. The only reason that SC2 is e sport is because blizzard pumped so much money into it and that BW was so great that the name "starcraft" alone is enough to sell video games. SC2 regressed in every possible way. Battle.net 2 are you fucking kidding me? Compare Bnet 1 and Bnet 2. They can't even fucking get that shit right. At least call of duty added in different maps and weapons every year. And guess what, we still have no LAN. shows how much blizzard care about making money and appealing to the mass. Just look at diablo3. That's right, the game is so revolutionary with the online market system. go be mad somewhere else, like the broodwar forum. Isn't that the whole point of creating that forum? so mad broodwar people can bitch about sc2 there? This isn't a discussion, its just going back into the good old brood war > sc2 elitist bashing, and if blizz doesn't do anything to suck up to your own personal liking, then it sucked blah blah blah if you think HOTS is going the wrong direction, then you are arguing for the sakes of OPINION and BROODWAR BEST GAME 4EVAR. get over it, the game is in a decline because its old and people tastes have changed | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:22 iky43210 wrote: that's just stupid. If Broodwar didn't kick off 10 years ago, what made you think it would now given that the gaming market is hundred times more competitive and general gamers today have their taste and style changed? Good sports are timeless. Good games are timeless. Good esports games are timeless. It would be even more successful today because there is so much crap out there. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:28 0neder wrote: Good sports are timeless. Good games are timeless. Good esports games are timeless. It would be even more successful today because there is so much crap out there. Yes, we can see how successfull BW is these days, flocks of sponsors are trying to get contracts with the growing amount of professional teams... oh, wait, i think i stumbled into your daydream... SC2 is not BW. SC2 is not C&C. SC2 is not WC3. SC2 is SC2. It's a different game and you don't have to like it. Others do like it. It's different, it doesn't have lurkers, it doesn't have spider mines, it doesn't have the epic BW terran music but it's a good game in it's own right. | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:28 0neder wrote: Good sports are timeless. Good games are timeless. Good esports games are timeless. It would be even more successful today because there is so much crap out there. games aren't sports. Games revolved around storyline, graphic, game mechanics, style of play, etc. consumers taste changes drastically over time, and our technology improves many times more rapidly. There is a reason why CoD is the stable RTS of this generation than to say another counter strike clone aka cross fire or whatever it was called. Gamers from this generation don't like waiting forever to for a game to watch other people fail at their objectives, nor do gamers like the rather one dimensional maps in CS where there are generally 1 or 2 entrance point per game. Most gamers actually like being rewarded for their action, no matter how good/bad they are. perks, challenges, "achievements", tags, customizatable weapons, fast pace, vehicles are things that let gamers feel that they are progressing instead of doing the same thing over and over aka counter strike. Its one of the few reasons why battlefield 3 and Call of Duty are so popular Nobody is going to buy a rehash of the same game in higher quality, nor would it have any lasting power outside of nostalgia values. Above just a simple example on how gamers have changed in a relatively short period of time. As technology progresses, you have to adapt to the new gamers tastes | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:40 Jumperer wrote: How about you try to explain why I was wrong instead of using the "new and popular = better" logic. Oh that's right you cant, you ain't got nothing son. It's not a discussion, because what I said is true. You don't know what you are talking about and it shows. You don't even know why you like the game. Your mind is a slave to media brainwashing. They convinced you that new is always better so you'll have to waste your money on new shits all the time. Unfortunately, you're going to have to step it up because I know how to use logic pretty well and I'm not going to let you get away with your stupid shits. It's not elitist bashing, it's called truth. Learn to open your fucking mind. Let me ask you a question. What do you think was better, the older star wars movies or the newer star wars movies? Explain why. why should I waste my time debating with you? nobody is going to debate with a mad crybaby that doesn't seem to be capable of looking things from different sides. Firebat was just so much more microable than marauders right? my response was the exact appropriate one for you Go cry somewhere else | ||
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[]Phase[]
Belgium927 Posts
EDIT : however I do not agree with the argument 'ppl will be pissed that they release the same units' People who have not played broodwar still get new units; new units to them that is. And most people who HAVE played broodwar probably WANT to see some of those cool older units back instead of some of the new units. | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:22 0neder wrote: Just by creating any new unit, Blizzard does a great job? could you set the bar any lower? Maybe your a guy who plays a game for a few months or maybe a year, but lots of players want games like CS and CS that they can play for decades that mature esports communities can develop around. You know, I want to watch Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, etc. play Sc2 for a long time, but if the game isn't good enough they may just retire or go to LoL or something. I barely even play, I'm a SC fan and I now that I will soon only be able to watch SC2, I hardly think you can honestly suggest I be complacent with whatever the crap SC2 turns out to be, regardless of any flaws. A community like that of BW only develops around an amazing game that thousands of players fall in love with and stay in love with for many years. Those games only happen very rarely. IMO, Counter-Strike and Brood War are the only to reach that pinnacle so far. Flash said that he really enjoys SC II so I think him going to LoL will not be the biggest concern  On June 18 2012 17:28 0neder wrote: Good sports are timeless. Good games are timeless. Good esports games are timeless. It would be even more successful today because there is so much crap out there. If BW was timeless it would not die this year. Recreating BW comepletely only with better graphics would mean using the same "bad" mechanics and pathings etc that only existed in the first place because of the engine of that time. Only very few people would want that and you cannot make a game for a few thousand people if you want to make money instead of losing it. I still don't understand why the Colossus gets so much hate, it can walk over cliffs and be microed in really cool ways due to that. It is VERY fragile if not positioned correctly with anti air and anti ground support. Essentially it is a mobile but less damaging version of the Siegetank (High range, High AOE Damage, dies fast to very few units without support/good positioning) I don't see people complain about the Siegetank at all... There are only two Units I really hate in SCII right now, Roaches and Infestors. Roaches are simply broke, being maxed at 11:00 with little to no effort... come on!! Neural Parasite, though highly underused can make zerg unstoppable with Broodlord Infestor (Vortex on P Units instead of Z) So, I think there are a ton of people who hate on SCII Colossi, you name it, just for the sake of hating and showing who elite they are.. | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:43 iky43210 wrote: games aren't sports. Games revolved around storyline, graphic, game mechanics, style of play, etc. consumers taste changes drastically over time, and our technology improves many times more rapidly. There is a reason why CoD is the stable RTS of this generation than to say another counter strike clone aka cross fire or whatever it was called. Gamers from this generation don't like waiting forever to for a game to watch other people fail at their objectives, nor do gamers like the rather one dimensional maps in CS where there are generally 1 or 2 entrance point per game. Most gamers actually like being rewarded for their action, no matter how good/bad they are. perks, challenges, "achievements", tags, customizatable weapons, fast pace, vehicles are things that let gamers feel that they are progressing instead of doing the same thing over and over aka counter strike. Its one of the few reasons why battlefield 3 and Call of Duty are so popular Nobody is going to buy a rehash of the same game in higher quality, nor would it have any lasting power outside of nostalgia values. Above just a simple example on how gamers have changed in a relatively short period of time. As technology progresses, you have to adapt to the new gamers tastes Cater to the new "gamers" for a while and you'll see how far the loyalty of a casual player goes. Casual players buy a game and play it for a few months at best before moving on to something new. Yes, it can be profitable to release an endless supply of shallow sequels to take their money (see CoD, sports games, etc), but if you try to do that you'll never build a lasting fan base, or a competitive e-sports scene. It's obvious that you can't see this, because you weren't around during the height of esports. The fact that you can't see that games can be sports is a dead giveaway as to how poorly you understand competitive gaming. | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:54 Jumperer wrote: I can't actually debate with you because everything you said is the truth so I'm going to dodge teh argument completely by saying that you should stop playing SC2. Let me educate you. BW lasted 10+ years as ESPORT and then SC2 killed it not because it was a better video game. It was due to the fact that Blizzard mastered their marketing strategy(Pump shitload of money to tournaments) and knew how to sell games that appeal to the mass. The old blizzard sell games because the games were amazing. The new blizzard make above average games(to the casual players however they are amazing) and the market everything so well that it sell. Yes, I can make a random statement with no backup whatsoever and assume that it's true. Blizzard dies BIT pump a lot of money into tournaments, they actually gain a portion of the prizepool.. If you want to debate something, don't make up "facts" on the spot.. The reason why SC 2 is so big is that it is SC 2. it was big before the Beta started. And I really do not understand why it is inferior to BW. Yes, it is a lot less demanding in terms of mechanics, however you can still multitask like a god, by controlling 2 drops at a time, while moving your army and still having decent macro. Also it is a bit more micro and strategy oriented, I do not think this is a bad thing. Overall BW would not sell because no one would bother to struggle with the mechanics, only selecting 12 Units at a time? You have to click every single production building individually? No one would bother with a new game that come with those features. Also, all this time people talk about BW not SC. There are a lot more casting Units yet to come which will possibly make the game a lot more interesting, so chill it is only the first of 3! parts so far. | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:54 sunprince wrote: Cater to the new "gamers" for a while and you'll see how far the loyalty of a casual player goes. Casual players buy a game and play it for a few months at best before moving on to something new. Yes, it can be profitable to release an endless supply of shallow sequels to take their money (see CoD, sports games, etc), but if you try to do that you'll never build a lasting fan base, or a competitive e-sports scene. It's obvious that you can't see this, because you weren't around during the height of esports. The fact that you can't see that games can be sports is a dead giveaway as to how poorly you understand competitive gaming. games will never be sport as long as our technology can improve, that's just part of life. I've followed esport for a very long time, and played competitively in many titles. But thing is game WILL die and new one with different mechanics will replace it. current PC-monitor most popular title in the world? next year virtual reality goggle-based mmo replaces it. Next year? capsule machines. Just some extreme example Your pc practically doubles its power every few years. The computer you're using now is a super computer not even a generation before. Games will have to follow technology sports never changes because there are constraints to what people can do physically, but there are limitless path technology and game mechanics can take. No games will ever become a true "sport", some will be very competitive and popular, then eventually something else will come replace them. There isn't a tangible line that cuts casual gamers and hardcore gamers, people buy games that they like, and stick with it until next installment or something better comes out | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
On June 18 2012 18:05 rEalGuapo wrote: Blizzard dies BIT pump a lot of money into tournaments, they actually gain a portion of the prizepool.. If you want to debate something, don't make up "facts" on the spot.. The reason why SC 2 is so big is that it is SC 2. it was big before the Beta started. And I really do not understand why it is inferior to BW. Yes, it is a lot less demanding in terms of mechanics, however you can still multitask like a god, by controlling 2 drops at a time, while moving your army and still having decent macro. Also it is a bit more micro and strategy oriented, I do not think this is a bad thing. Overall BW would not sell because no one would bother to struggle with the mechanics, only selecting 12 Units at a time? You have to click every single production building individually? No one would bother with a new game that come with those features. Also, all this time people talk about BW not SC. There are a lot more casting Units yet to come which will possibly make the game a lot more interesting, so chill it is only the first of 3! parts so far. in fact BW should be release in HD, but without those restriction(but no smartcast plz), but with the same Pathfiding | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:54 sunprince wrote: Cater to the new "gamers" for a while and you'll see how far the loyalty of a casual player goes. Casual players buy a game and play it for a few months at best before moving on to something new. Yes, it can be profitable to release an endless supply of shallow sequels to take their money (see CoD, sports games, etc), but if you try to do that you'll never build a lasting fan base, or a competitive e-sports scene. It's obvious that you can't see this, because you weren't around during the height of esports. The fact that you can't see that games can be sports is a dead giveaway as to how poorly you understand competitive gaming. Isn't that the definition of a casual gamer though? | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:53 rEalGuapo wrote: Flash said that he really enjoys SC II so I think him going to LoL will not be the biggest concern If BW was timeless it would not die this year. Recreating BW comepletely only with better graphics would mean using the same "bad" mechanics and pathings etc that only existed in the first place because of the engine of that time. Only very few people would want that and you cannot make a game for a few thousand people if you want to make money instead of losing it. I still don't understand why the Colossus gets so much hate, it can walk over cliffs and be microed in really cool ways due to that. It is VERY fragile if not positioned correctly with anti air and anti ground support. Essentially it is a mobile but less damaging version of the Siegetank (High range, High AOE Damage, dies fast to very few units without support/good positioning) I don't see people complain about the Siegetank at all... There are only two Units I really hate in SCII right now, Roaches and Infestors. Roaches are simply broke, being maxed at 11:00 with little to no effort... come on!! Neural Parasite, though highly underused can make zerg unstoppable with Broodlord Infestor (Vortex on P Units instead of Z) So, I think there are a ton of people who hate on SCII Colossi, you name it, just for the sake of hating and showing who elite they are.. I don't understand how you can logically come up with this post. I'll entertain it. You begin by defending the colossus, the least creative unit in SC2 (arguably), which is among the LEAST micro-able units. One of the slowest attack speed and walking speed combination in the game. It NATURALLY positions itself behind your ball because of it's range. You hit everyone over the head with the obvious range comparison to the tank, but then lose me by trying to say it's as unique as the tank; a unit that isn't made to 1a. You then drive the post off of a cliff and turn it into a balance complaint about roaches. Fucking roaches. In a thread dedicated to the discussion of BW units within SC2. What's worse is that it the reason why roaches are powerful in PvZ has nothing to fucking do with the unit but the metagame that allows the zerg to take such a fast third base and drone up to hit a maxed TIMING. And then you ice the cake by smugly remarking that discussion criticizing the design of the colossus is actually due to bw elitism bias. | ||
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Noruxas
Netherlands129 Posts
So Blizzard, stop being stingy and give me a science vessel.... | ||
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