EPTE.g., infestors cast good fungals, opposing player can only gg - no insane micro can help them. Zerg player gets neural parasite in mothership, toss has to gg.
Dustin Browder, David Kim Interviews - Page 23
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NATO
United States459 Posts
E.g., infestors cast good fungals, opposing player can only gg - no insane micro can help them. Zerg player gets neural parasite in mothership, toss has to gg. | ||
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bobucles
410 Posts
2) DK believes that Terran need a 1A Option. There's a difference between a 1-A army and having something that doesn't instantly melt if you look away for half a second.A stronger, tougher core army means that the Protoss death ball is that much less effective. It means Terran can say "yeah, well me too" where they would normally die against critical mass. A pro player may scoff at the idea of a unit that doesn't take 800APM to use, sure, but the game isn't built for pure autism. Want to roll MMMGV.all day e'ery day? Go straight ahead. No one's stopping it. There ain't nothing in the expansion that can't be killed by Marines (except maybe for Ultras). | ||
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1A1A1A
Belize20 Posts
On June 15 2012 21:29 bobucles wrote: A stronger, tougher core army means that the Protoss death ball is that much less effective. It means Terran can say "yeah, well me too" where they would normally die against critical mass.. Why would anyone think that adding to the 1a deathball is a good thing for this game. "Toss have it, so should terran". It's stuff like this that is stunting strategies and player skill. Creep spreading, marine splitting, multi drops, catching a terran army unsieged, the ht/ghost duel off etc etc. It's stuff like this there should be more of and less of 1a friendly units like say the colossus. If the action is more spread out, you'll see more diversity in the gameplay. Honestly I prefer to watch fighting going on all over the map, rather than deathball vs deathball, which allows virtually no comebacks. | ||
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Roarer
Hong Kong124 Posts
On June 15 2012 22:06 1A1A1A wrote: Why would anyone think that adding to the 1a deathball is a good thing for this game. "Toss have it, so should terran". It's stuff like this that is stunting strategies and player skill. Creep spreading, marine splitting, multi drops, catching a terran army unsieged, the ht/ghost duel off etc etc. It's stuff like this there should be more of and less of 1a friendly units like say the colossus. If the action is more spread out, you'll see more diversity in the gameplay. Honestly I prefer to watch fighting going on all over the map, rather than deathball vs deathball, which allows virtually no comebacks. According to Davaid Kim, it will allow players other than micro-base players to shine with Terran. It is because they can have the option to go for a less micro incentive army. However, the question is if Blizzard can find the right balance sweet spot for the less micro intensive army (may not be 1-A). If they can, David Kim can be right. If not, your worry will become reality. So far, I do not think Blizzard has done a great job in this aspect..... so I am as scepticle as you. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 16 2012 00:02 Roarer wrote: According to Davaid Kim, it will allow players other than micro-base players to shine with Terran. It is because they can have the option to go for a less micro incentive army. However, the question is if Blizzard can find the right balance sweet spot for the less micro intensive army (may not be 1-A). If they can, David Kim can be right. If not, your worry will become reality. So far, I do not think Blizzard has done a great job in this aspect..... so I am as scepticle as you. This is Starcraft 2, not Caesar 3; people who can't micro should be losing. Macro has an extremely low skill cap (comparatively) especially if you don't play Zerg. | ||
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ZergX
France436 Posts
 Thx Waxangel and David Kim ♥ | ||
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Roarer
Hong Kong124 Posts
On June 16 2012 00:04 Shiori wrote: This is Starcraft 2, not Caesar 3; people who can't micro should be losing. Macro has an extremely low skill cap (comparatively) especially if you don't play Zerg. Just like I said before, burried somewhere in this thread = =", a better 1-A base army example we have right now is the BroodLords infestor deathball. I am gonna find what I said for you : + Show Spoiler + The best example we had so far is the Broodlord army. Yeah, of course they need fungal support, but the army is still an A-moving base army(that's why so many zergs get caught in a vortex = =). In a serious note though, you have to get a healthy income, a solid base defense and save enough energy on the infestors. All the supporting factors to allow an A-moving army to work as intended can be hard to get. The army itself is not everything. You may not require heavy micro to use them well, but you may need good economy management and scouting to hold off timing attack to get he army up. However, I do agree that the A-move deathball of the protoss is not that hard to get = =" so...I think Blizzard has to put in some effort before they release the Terran A-move army to the public... and I would also add that a positional army should be more interesting in every way. It just add in more elements and factors when evaluating / predicting battle outcome. I am fine with haveing more army compositions options as long as they eventually add in the positional army =﹏= Yeah, we need macro skills to get that up, but there can also be other skill like the scouting. I do not know if you include that into macro but there are still something more than simply micro & macro needed for the army to work. That is what David Kim mean by an option of "less micro intensive army". Anyway, I do agree Blizzard need to put in a lot of effort to make that accepted by the community and E-sports. It is gonna be hard as hell. Simply put, the broodlord army is not even an enjoyable 1-A army. Asking them to make a better "less micro intensive" army? The most we can do is to wish them good luck = = | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 16 2012 00:30 Roarer wrote: Just like I said before, burried somewhere in this thread = =", a better 1-A base army example we have right now is the BroodLords infestor deathball. I am gonna find what I said for you : + Show Spoiler + The best example we had so far is the Broodlord army. Yeah, of course they need fungal support, but the army is still an A-moving base army(that's why so many zergs get caught in a vortex = =). In a serious note though, you have to get a healthy income, a solid base defense and save enough energy on the infestors. All the supporting factors to allow an A-moving army to work as intended can be hard to get. The army itself is not everything. You may not require heavy micro to use them well, but you may need good economy management and scouting to hold off timing attack to get he army up. However, I do agree that the A-move deathball of the protoss is not that hard to get = =" so...I think Blizzard has to put in some effort before they release the Terran A-move army to the public... and I would also add that a positional army should be more interesting in every way. It just add in more elements and factors when evaluating / predicting battle outcome. I am fine with haveing more army compositions options as long as they eventually add in the positional army =﹏= Yeah, we need macro skills to get that up, but there can also be other skill like the scouting. I do not know if you include that into macro but there are still something more than simply micro & macro needed for the army to work. That is what David Kim mean by an option of "less micro intensive army". Anyway, I do agree Blizzard need to put in a lot of effort to make that accepted by the community and E-sports. It is gonna be hard as hell. Simply put, the broodlord army is not even an enjoyable 1-A army. Asking them to make a better "less micro intensive" army? The most we can do is to wish them good luck = = BL/Infestor is one of the biggest things wrong with this game. Besides, BL/Infestor being a-move has nothing to do with surviving in the midgame. That's an entirely separate issue. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On June 15 2012 21:29 bobucles wrote: There's a difference between a 1-A army and having something that doesn't instantly melt if you look away for half a second. A stronger, tougher core army means that the Protoss death ball is that much less effective. It means Terran can say "yeah, well me too" where they would normally die against critical mass. A pro player may scoff at the idea of a unit that doesn't take 800APM to use, sure, but the game isn't built for pure autism. Want to roll MMMGV.all day e'ery day? Go straight ahead. No one's stopping it. There ain't nothing in the expansion that can't be killed by Marines (except maybe for Ultras). Wow, you really miss read my post. 1) Mech= Good, Durable= Good 2) WH+BH+1A= Bad Mech should play diffrently from MMM. I hate MMM. Terran in BW was the positional race in all 3 match-ups. It's a fundamental core of Terran. The fact that DK is changing Terran Mech to be a 1A option is stupid and boring. This is Mech. I recommend you watch the whole series. English commentary + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 16 2012 00:46 GinDo wrote: Wow, you really miss read my post. 1) Mech= Good, Durable= Good 2) WH+BH+1A= Bad Mech should play diffrently from MMM. I hate MMM. Terran in BW was the positional race in all 3 match-ups. It's a fundamental core of Terran. The fact that DK is changing Terran Mech to be a 1A option is stupid and boring. This is Mech. I recommend you watch the whole series. English commentary + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI47wDF0HJ4 I don't get how people know that the warhound is an a-move unit. Very few people have used it yet, and we don't know how well it can be microed. I don't know the turn speed, acceleration or responsiveness of the unit. For all we know, the unit could be as snappy and quick-triggered as a stalker. The Battle Hellion is more of a melee unit that absorbes a pack of lings or chargelots. There is also a very solid delay in their rate of fire and there might be room to studder step them into better positions between shots. People should just stop with the whole a-move unit talking. The interviewer brought up the topic with David Kim and David responded that the new units required less micro that MMM. That is not a shocker, since MMM requires a lot of actions to use effectively. But the interviewer took that as "The units require no micro and just need to be A-moved". From the interview, I am not even sure the interviewer had played the current build of HotS. Even if he had, how can he know how well the new terran units can be microed with such a limited amount of time with the build? There is an acceptable amount of micro between a studder-stepping marine and a-moved colossi that the new units can require. It is not all or nothing. Edit: Grammer | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On June 16 2012 02:42 Plansix wrote: I don't get how people know that the warhound is an a-move unit. Very few people have used it yet, and we don't know how well it can be microed. I don't know the turn speed, acceleration or responsiveness of the unit. For all we know, the unit could be as snappy and quick-triggered as a stalker. The Battle Hellion is more of a melee unit that absorbes a pack of lings or chargelots. There is also a very solid delay in their rate of fire and there might be room to studder step them into better positions between shots. People should just stop with the whole a-move unit talking. The interviewer brought up the topic with David Kim and David responded that the new units required less micro that MMM. That is not a shocker, since MMM requires a lot of actions to use effectively. But the interviewer took that as "The units require no micro and just need to be A-moved". From the interview, I am not even sure the interviewer had played the current build of HotS. Even if he had, how can he know how well the new terran units can be microed with such a limited amount of time with the build? There is an acceptable amount of micro between a studder-stepping marine and a-moved colossi that the new units can require. It is not all or nothing. Edit: Grammer So DK and DB just gave Terran a Zealot and a stalker? Warhound= Stalker with Maruader shells. Battle Hellion= Zealot with splash. | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
I hope blizzard really listens in the coming months, their philosophy is good but the execution of it is kinda bad. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On June 16 2012 03:47 Andr3 wrote: Blizzard isn't trying to add in more deathballs lol, that would contradict all the other units and their statements so far in the new interviews. They want to add more options in gameplay, specifically to terran/toss. It's the way they're doing is that it's wrong and we should voice our opinions strongly about it. I hope blizzard really listens in the coming months, their philosophy is good but the execution of it is kinda bad. Protoss units are okay, but they really don't change much. I would like to see something added to the Dark Templar branch. Right now we have a building that does absolutely nothing. | ||
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Chilling5pr33
Germany518 Posts
And also just try theire own stuff with the expansion i love the way they engage the problems. I feel comformed that Blizzard still is the best company towards the fans. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On June 16 2012 05:23 Chilling5pr33 wrote: David Kim shown that they really just do what the community wants them to do (patch wise) And also just try theire own stuff with the expansion i love the way they engage the problems. I feel comformed that Blizzard still is the best company towards the fans. Very true. Very few companies even try to support their games after they're sold. | ||
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danteafk
307 Posts
blizzard best game devs ever. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
atm i can think of two big concerns almost everyone around high masters level has 1. mothership vs BL/infestor dynamic 2. recent changes to tvz and blizzard is focusing on mass roach?? because na protoss can't deal with na zergs massing roach? you have to be joking me blizzard should be focusing on the gstl, where terrans are getting stomped on by 6+ queen into early hive. how can he NOT know about mother ship vs infestor / brood late game issue now at this point? how many freaking games have come down to this? Has he been watching at al? they should be focusing on high level tournaments, not their own internal winrates, this is exactly why blizzards changes are so "laggy" and they seem to lag behind what us players think my 2 cents | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On June 13 2012 15:23 tyrless wrote: How can you not like DBro? (and Davyie is cool too). I was worried about Browder when they first started making SC2, because of his work on the shit C&C games, and there is a bit of that design sloppiness that creeps into SC2 sometimes, but overall he clearly cares and knows what he's doing. Some time ago C&C strategies was better than StarCraft, only EA with their merketing policy killed that universe | ||
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blackhole12
42 Posts
On June 16 2012 06:22 c0sm0naut wrote: am i the only one who though dustin browder seemed a little out of touch with the community? atm i can think of two big concerns almost everyone around high masters level has 1. mothership vs BL/infestor dynamic 2. recent changes to tvz and blizzard is focusing on mass roach?? because na protoss can't deal with na zergs massing roach? you have to be joking me blizzard should be focusing on the gstl, where terrans are getting stomped on by 6+ queen into early hive. how can he NOT know about mother ship vs infestor / brood late game issue now at this point? how many freaking games have come down to this? Has he been watching at al? they should be focusing on high level tournaments, not their own internal winrates, this is exactly why blizzards changes are so "laggy" and they seem to lag behind what us players think my 2 cents Mass roach is very strong for something that's essentially a degenerate strategy. You go for pure economy and then for a composition with only one type of unit, a T1 unit at that and you can win most of the time. Even if at a pro level you can deal with this, it's not a bad thing for builds like this to be a bit weaker. | ||
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