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On June 14 2012 00:48 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 23:01 Blasterion wrote:On June 13 2012 12:25 Falling wrote:
Happy Birthday Despite of all the complaint we make against Browder and Kim and etc. The interviews always make me think they're doing a great job. I wouldn't say that "we want a terran a-move deathball option" is doing a good job.
He never, not once, said that. He said that Terran should have fewer micro intensive units. Did you pay attention to his entire point? Because he went on to say that they added micro-intensive Protoss units because Protoss had too many a-move ready units.
In other words, they're trying to even up the micro intensive/easier to use units. Unless everyone here wants the game to work like BW, which only needed intense micro for every unit because the game engine was 12 years old, then this is a good thing. (Not to shit on BW, but that game is just plain to fucking hard.) You can't micro every unit all the time, so having a few Zealot like units that do their thing while you're microing Stalkers isn't bad at all.
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Blizz needs to rework Corrupt and Strike Cannons. Both are the signature ability of their respective units (which do see lots of play) but one is never used and the other is by far the dullest ability in the Starcraft series.
At this point in time, Strike Cannon is deadweight and a huge liability because of Feedback.
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On June 14 2012 03:02 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Blizz needs to rework Corrupt and Strike Cannons. Both are the signature ability of their respective units (which do see lots of play) but one is never used and the other is by far the dullest ability in the Starcraft series.
At this point in time, Strike Cannon is deadweight and a huge liability because of Feedback.
dude, every good zerg player uses corrupt.
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On June 14 2012 03:04 neoghaleon55 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 03:02 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Blizz needs to rework Corrupt and Strike Cannons. Both are the signature ability of their respective units (which do see lots of play) but one is never used and the other is by far the dullest ability in the Starcraft series.
At this point in time, Strike Cannon is deadweight and a huge liability because of Feedback. dude, every good zerg player uses corrupt.
I think you mismatched what I said.
Strike cannon - the one that's never used
Corrupt - the dullest ability ever
I messed up the order of my points, so that was a bit confusing.
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On June 14 2012 02:50 Mauldo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 00:48 a176 wrote:On June 13 2012 23:01 Blasterion wrote:On June 13 2012 12:25 Falling wrote:
Happy Birthday Despite of all the complaint we make against Browder and Kim and etc. The interviews always make me think they're doing a great job. I wouldn't say that "we want a terran a-move deathball option" is doing a good job. He never, not once, said that. He said that Terran should have fewer micro intensive units. Did you pay attention to his entire point? Because he went on to say that they added micro-intensive Protoss units because Protoss had too many a-move ready units. In other words, they're trying to even up the micro intensive/easier to use units. Unless everyone here wants the game to work like BW, which only needed intense micro for every unit because the game engine was 12 years old, then this is a good thing. (Not to shit on BW, but that game is just plain to fucking hard.) You can't micro every unit all the time, so having a few Zealot like units that do their thing while you're microing Stalkers isn't bad at all.
even less micro? how is that possible?
but apart from that i think david kim is a good balance developer, he did a great job with dawn of war
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Thors hurting e-sports because we can't see how many units there are when they are clumped up?
>Nerf thors instead of fixing unit clumping.
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Tbh I'm kind of disappointed Browder said that he wasnt aware of NP being an issue for motherships. You get a NP off, lose both your vortex and then it dies... you have to wait for another mothership plus the energy for vortex. On the other hand if you get archon with good vortex and the zerg doesnt spread the match is almost certainly over.
ZvP is just so coinflip like in the end game it seems ridiculous he claims he wasnt even aware of this.
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On June 13 2012 18:48 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 17:17 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On June 13 2012 17:04 dezi wrote:
DK really said the tank is to strong? WTF! I missed that... but I agree! With the popularity of just pure MMM in TvZ, it seems there may need to be more incentive to get tanks in TvZ. By making tanks stronger, they could give T more supply to use for other units instead, making lategame TvZ easier (if that actually is a problem), but if it's not, that new viper/harass style, giving zerg more options, should be enough to help. And making tanks stronger would make mech much more viable in TvP. Also it doesn't seem buffing tanks would change too much in TvT neither -- mech in TvT is already pretty rare/weak. Yeah, there are arguments that if you play "perfectly", it is the strongest. But no one is perfect; there are always mistakes. Anyways, if someone were to be able to play mech perfectly, then you could theorize that someone could micro their MMM perfectly, stutter stepping to the exact frame, and splitting insanely well, etc. For marine/tank TvT, there should be no real problem because both of them have tanks anyway, though they might not like being able to 1 shot marines with tanks (though really I don't think it's a big deal, that would only apply for marines being hit by 1 single tank shot, and that one target marine dying or not dying). Anyways those are just my thoughts, I think the tank is such an important unit for Terran, it really opens up a lot of strategies. And I mean it's just so traditional, giving terran a real terran feel. Terrans are supposed to also be able to be defensive, right? Or was that only BW? Walls, tanks, turrets, mines, bunkers, etc.. Terran had a lot of defensive tools, and now they have PFs too and soon widow mines. I know David said they definitely want to allow terran to have more options, instead of just bio TvP, which is awesome, but I just hope the tank doesn't become obsolete with the warhound, or that tank play becomes very minimal or rare. On June 13 2012 16:31 IshinShishi wrote:On June 13 2012 16:22 Woizit wrote:On June 13 2012 16:20 AxionSteel wrote:On June 13 2012 15:58 Woizit wrote:
David Kim feels that siege tanks are too strong in TvZ...? It seems weird that DB understands the role of a "board control" unit better than him. I know right....My heart sank and my interest in the interview kind of declined from that point. Absolutely bizarre. I couldn't follow the rest of the interview right after hearing that either. I just can't fathom why he feels that siege tanks have to be made useless. Statistics are telling him that siege tanks are too strong, ergo a bunker build time nerf will follow.Also terran has too many options and poor zergies can't do anything vs scary hellions killing drones,that's why the bunk... err the queen was buffed. Haha hilarious, thanks. Am I out of my mind? :D Are you sure you didn't read "too weak" instead of "too strong"? :-)
dezi was surprised david said tanks were too strong. So this probably means dezi things tanks are not too strong. So I was talking about how I felt it was anything but strong, in agreement.
@Thors and esports. I think the reason wasn't only because of the art team. At least i'd like to believe so, otherwise their nerfing the thor turned out pretty useless, seeing as people still did thor/marine/banshee 2 base all-ins TvP, in which the marine/scv ARE actually hard to see (though I don't see why it seems they nerfed it cus of thorzain, since he did thor hellion , not thor marine...). I thought a lot about different styles/compositions, i think the strategy is actually more diverse with thors having energy bars. Though of course, mech was way less flexible and weaker after that.
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On June 14 2012 03:06 RavenLoud wrote:Thors hurting e-sports because we can't see how many units there are when they are clumped up? >Nerf thors instead of fixing unit clumping.
stupid decision ever
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when is kennigit gonna change that hair >.>
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On June 14 2012 00:50 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 22:22 AzureD wrote:On June 13 2012 14:06 FabledIntegral wrote:On June 13 2012 13:52 AzureD wrote:Why does almost no one use Banelings + Infested Terrans to counter Archon toilets? I don't understand this. On June 13 2012 13:47 ktimekiller wrote:
ROFL Dustin is not aware of the Mothership in ZvP
Freaking pathetic awareness of his own game hes designing (ruining) Here we have an example of hearing what you want to hear. People want to find faults in people to justify their prejudices. IT can be good but the issue is that you'll still lose all your BL to archons, then toss just sacks his archons. Now what? You have no energy on your infestors - they're taking up supply, and if toss remaxes on something you're boned. You have to be careful with teh energy, and it's not like Toss throws their entire army into the toilet. It's meant to get the Zerg army coupled with Toss archons, and some blink stalkers. That's it. Which is also why banes, which are fickle due to storm and colossi being in play, are also not used. You going to throw in banes to do splash dmg to archons? It' snot like the banes get to hit every unit in the toilet - archons only work because they're so good vs the air. Also, vortex is used to phase out certain units from a battle as well, not just for the toilet. 40 Banes will destroy the vast majority of a Protoss army if he puts it in his toilet. Besides the Protoss tends to not do this at all. If a Toss does do this and it does not kill the Archons instantly he will have traded his entire army for the Zerg army inside the Vortex. If the Toss only puts in Archons and a small handeful of units then you only need a few infested terrans to cleanup what the Banes do not one shot. And then Zerg is behind. You're going to put in forty banes to kill like 4 archons, that still manage to take out the BL's? (or at least, half their health, if only 2-3 archons)? It's not a good move, to invest so much gas in banes, not to mention they are so incredibly fragile to storm.
If he only puts in 3-4 Archons then you only need 20 Banes and they one shot Archons before they can get a single shot off. They might get 1 shot if they are lucky. You will be way ahead if you do this as Archons are way more expensive than Banes when you do this as well as save all your Broodlords. In terms of gas cost 40 Banes is cheaper than 4 Archons and it would be 16 supply of Archons vs 20 supply of Banes. But 40 Banes is way overkill against 4 Archons. 40 Banes is if he just plain puts his whole army in there.
Why on earth do you think the Archons fire faster than Banes can blow up? The only way that can happen is if they are cloaked and get first shot. You should have a few Overseers by then.
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What I really do not like is the fact that they say "this might be to strong right now, so we're doing this to fix it in HotS". Why do we have to wait for HotS? Why can't we have the Hydra upgrade, or the Burrow Charge Ultra right now? ZvP is kinda messy right now, if I want to go for the 200 max, I do either get crushed by an Immortal Sentry army waiting for me, or coming at me directly, or I get harassed by Void Rays and Phoenixes, both forcing me to get Hydras, since Infestors are too expensive to build up such a mass to counter them. If I go Hydra, the Protoss can just switch to Colossus Tech and I'm dead.
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On June 13 2012 12:17 destian wrote:
i've never seen neural parasite on a mothership. can someone please link a pro game where this happened?
Ive seen Stephano doing it. They neural the ship and waste the vortex energy on nothing.
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On June 14 2012 00:35 HeroMystic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 22:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
David Kim interview was good, Dustin Browder seemed better somehow. Probably because Dustin is a far better at interviews. He never stutters and he always knows what to say. I think the only problem he has is he tends to ramble, but that's just him filling up dead space so he can think of the real answer. It's a common technique used for Q&A. David doesn't have any of Dustin's techniques and it's obvious that he's pretty nervous about his answers. Wax was being pretty aggressive about his questions as well. David saying that Zerg can't really crack a Siege tank line is pretty bullshit too. In fact it seems DK and DB have totally different philosophies when it comes to controlling space. DB seems very clear that controlling space and forcing the opponent to move around this is a solid strategy. However DK seems to believe that every defense should be cracked straight up. Nevermind the fact that Zerg can already do this anyway.
I think Wax wasn't being aggressive, just a lot less passive and accepting. It takes heart for an interviewer to make a sensible and confronting reply that gives a nice follow-up!
They're essentially saying the same thing, DB just added a scenario and thought-process that DK didn't mention.
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It's interesting that they nerfed Thor's because they obscured vision of Terran's MMM army. I think that was a poor adjustment. I can gauge pretty much any army except for maybe when a Mothership is involved.
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On June 14 2012 03:34 Nimelrian wrote:
What I really do not like is the fact that they say "this might be to strong right now, so we're doing this to fix it in HotS". Why do we have to wait for HotS? Why can't we have the Hydra upgrade, or the Burrow Charge Ultra right now? ZvP is kinda messy right now, if I want to go for the 200 max, I do either get crushed by an Immortal Sentry army waiting for me, or coming at me directly, or I get harassed by Void Rays and Phoenixes, both forcing me to get Hydras, since Infestors are too expensive to build up such a mass to counter them. If I go Hydra, the Protoss can just switch to Colossus Tech and I'm dead.
Because just slapping those solutions into the game would cause more problems than it would solve.
With an expansion pack you get a full development process and a beta lasting months that allows you to properly tune changes like this.
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David Kim is wearing a Terran shirt.
I BELIEVE.
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the comment on youtube
"thors hurt esport" lool
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David Kim is really tiny in person
I dare say he is barely 5 feet tall.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg815/scaled.php?server=815&filename=21982531.jpg&res=landing)
