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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 09:58 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:56 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community. His defense has been rushed and poor, if he wants to do it, he should do it properly. Look at the situation from Spades point of view. Say he doesn't hack, why would he give a fuck about this thread? He's prolly shaking his head off. If there was a large thread about me hacking, I probably wouldn't give a shit either.
Spades has correctly stated that if he cannot prove he is innocent, his career is over because of what this thread did to his reputation. Your claims are false.
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On June 05 2012 06:46 Trizz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 06:45 Martijn wrote:On June 05 2012 06:42 Xcobidoo wrote:
Just someone who doesn't want his main account to be connected to this incident forever. Which is bullshit. It's ok to ruin someones reputation regardless of whether it's true or false, and somehow he doesn't have to actually deal with any fallout if it's false? Why is this bullshit? If someone wants to remain unknown then he should have that right. It's clear he did a lot of research and tries to "HELP ESPORTS XD420" and report a cheater.
Agreed the OP is done well enough that I accept the fact he wants to keep anonymity. Knowing the community if it turns out spades did not hack this person would be roasted. However at the same time until its made conclusive some community members would harass him non stop if his real account was released.
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Canada13389 Posts
I honestly hope this isn't true, but the only way to deal with this is the following:
More replays. The last 100 games played on ladder. If you have played Spades in the last week, find the replay and post it. Thats it. With a HUGE sample then we can perhaps figure it out. But no one who is "sure" that he is hacking should be watching the replays, or we will all be hit with a huge case of tunnel vision.
On June 05 2012 09:59 LimeNade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 06:46 Trizz wrote:On June 05 2012 06:45 Martijn wrote:On June 05 2012 06:42 Xcobidoo wrote:
Just someone who doesn't want his main account to be connected to this incident forever. Which is bullshit. It's ok to ruin someones reputation regardless of whether it's true or false, and somehow he doesn't have to actually deal with any fallout if it's false? Why is this bullshit? If someone wants to remain unknown then he should have that right. It's clear he did a lot of research and tries to "HELP ESPORTS XD420" and report a cheater. Agreed the OP is done well enough that I accept the fact he wants to keep anonymity. Knowing the community if it turns out spades did not hack this person would be roasted. However at the same time until its made conclusive some community members would harass him non stop if his real account was released.
Yup, the op should not have done this in anonymity, If he was that sure, he should stand by his position and his statements.
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On June 05 2012 09:57 crazystupid0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:55 Flonomenalz wrote:
hmmmm idk.
I'm not nearly high level enough to think my opinion on the replays matter, but the one part where he selects an scv WHILE looking at fog... I have no fucking clue how you can possibly do that without hacking unless SC2 is glitched.
I hope he isn't hacking again though, I like spades... If it was a idle scv you can select it with F1 and move it around clicking on the mini map. I do it all the time. You don't have to look at a scv to move it around.
Yeah I know that, it wasn't idle.
That's my biggest issue. Everything else is circumstantial and I can't debate on circumstantial evidence, but that scv selection... is what is causing me doubts.
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United States5162 Posts
On June 05 2012 09:56 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community. His defense has been rushed and poor, if he wants to do it, he should do it properly.
Regardless of his quilt/innocence, it doesn't matter one bit what he does. It will all be used as justification for his hacking.
He doesn't respond right away - he's hiding so clearly a hacker
Does respond right away - he's defensive and his explanation isn't perfect so clearly a hacker
Even if he releases 1000 replays it won't change the opinion in the majority of peoples' mind's,
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All of this information seems silly to me personally. Not to take away from the fact that he may have hacked and there is no way to prove otherwise, but that being said all of these things he does could happen to anyone in a match. Yes random scans and such are very unlikely and therefore makes him look very suspicious. You have to think of it as if he was cheating why would he not just take him out 4-0 or even 4-1. Ok maybe to make it look legit he would want to win 4-3, but not even that happened. He makes many other mistakes that would easily have been seen/ taken care of easily if he was map hacking. Once again though you can not prove he did or did not so to post something to ruin somebody should be 100% proof not circumstantial games that may or may not have been "hacking".
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On June 05 2012 09:59 ZeromuS wrote:
I honestly hope this isn't true, but the only way to deal with this is the following:
More replays. The last 100 games played on ladder. If you have played Spades in the last week, find the replay and post it. Thats it. With a HUGE sample then we can perhaps figure it out. But no one who is "sure" that he is hacking should be watching the replays, or we will all be hit with a huge case of tunnel vision.
I posted this a couple pages ago, but I played him 10 days ago, I guess that's within a good timeframe. http://drop.sc/185969 Wasn't hacking and he played well.
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On June 05 2012 09:59 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:58 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 09:56 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community. His defense has been rushed and poor, if he wants to do it, he should do it properly. Look at the situation from Spades point of view. Say he doesn't hack, why would he give a fuck about this thread? He's prolly shaking his head off. If there was a large thread about me hacking, I probably wouldn't give a shit either. Spades has correctly stated that if he cannot prove he is innocent, his career is over because of what this thread did to his reputation. Your claims are false.
I'm not claiming anything, I'm just saying that if I was in his position, and I wasn't hacking, I wouldn't give two flying fucks about what a few kids on the internet says about me.
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Not a bad idea. Go ahead and upload the last 100 replays. If there are no smoking guns, something far more credible than the the circumstantial stuff here, I'd consider him innocent because that sample size is big enough.
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On June 05 2012 06:46 Spades wrote:
90% of the day i believe people are hacking against me on ladder. Big name players as well. Everyone is just hack crazy now. I stream 90% of my games. I didn't hack in this series, I haven't hacked in SC2. If you want to find things that look suspicious, It's easy. Not one person here can "prove" i hacked, because i didn't. And now my sc2 image is destroyed. So I'm thankful for that. Guess it's time to retire after Anaheim.
Christ dude, I have dealt with a ton of FPS hackers in my admin days and you gave the same exact excuses as them.
"Other people are doing it!"
"You cant prove it!"
ect ect, you have dirtied yourself in the past and are now forever labled with the once a cheater always a cheater.
Now you will just delete/remove your account and create a new one probably. Good luck
The only person you can blame is yourself.
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On June 05 2012 09:59 ZeromuS wrote:I honestly hope this isn't true, but the only way to deal with this is the following: More replays. The last 100 games played on ladder. If you have played Spades in the last week, find the replay and post it. Thats it. With a HUGE sample then we can perhaps figure it out. But no one who is "sure" that he is hacking should be watching the replays, or we will all be hit with a huge case of tunnel vision. Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:59 LimeNade wrote:On June 05 2012 06:46 Trizz wrote:On June 05 2012 06:45 Martijn wrote:On June 05 2012 06:42 Xcobidoo wrote:
Just someone who doesn't want his main account to be connected to this incident forever. Which is bullshit. It's ok to ruin someones reputation regardless of whether it's true or false, and somehow he doesn't have to actually deal with any fallout if it's false? Why is this bullshit? If someone wants to remain unknown then he should have that right. It's clear he did a lot of research and tries to "HELP ESPORTS XD420" and report a cheater. Agreed the OP is done well enough that I accept the fact he wants to keep anonymity. Knowing the community if it turns out spades did not hack this person would be roasted. However at the same time until its made conclusive some community members would harass him non stop if his real account was released. Yup, the op should not have done this in anonymity, If he was that sure, he should stand by his position and his statements.
That's noble, but you do not know who he is and what he has to lose. People get nasty when you endanger their livelihood...
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On June 05 2012 10:01 .Wraath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 06:46 Spades wrote:
90% of the day i believe people are hacking against me on ladder. Big name players as well. Everyone is just hack crazy now. I stream 90% of my games. I didn't hack in this series, I haven't hacked in SC2. If you want to find things that look suspicious, It's easy. Not one person here can "prove" i hacked, because i didn't. And now my sc2 image is destroyed. So I'm thankful for that. Guess it's time to retire after Anaheim. Now you will just delete/remove your account and create a new one probably. Good luck
like the OP?
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On June 05 2012 09:58 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:56 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community. His defense has been rushed and poor, if he wants to do it, he should do it properly. Look at the situation from Spades point of view. Say he doesn't hack, why would he give a fuck about this thread? He's prolly shaking his head off. If there was a large thread about me hacking, I probably wouldn't give a shit either.
That doesn't make sense. He is a pro gamer (isn't he?), this is how he makes a living. It's pretty important that a community is posting evidence that will more less destroy his entire career (as it should).
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On June 05 2012 09:54 Ghanburighan wrote:
Hmm, interesting situation. A few notes after reading the thread.
One of the things fueling the debate is that Spades is not really responding to the points made. The commentary is 90% comments of the kind: "there is no way I can prove I'm not hacking. My career is over". Nerchio has done the most of what seems to be the consensus on how to resolve the issue ie. analyzing the games. But even the good examples of game analysis seem hurried at this point (for obvious reasons).
Perhaps it would help if people took a break, analyzed the games and wrote it up cogently. Looking at the points made, and responding to them in a way which is more than saying: a) it was luck, b) it was standard (what is standard and why?) or c) woe is me.
I personally think the OP did enough to raise the issue, analyzing 7 games in detail is a lot of work. Yet, it's not sufficient to make the decision and should not be, it's up to the community to do a much broader and deeper analysis.
The thing is, the op's original analysis was extremely exaggerated, and people didn't start to question it until the situation snowballed out of control. At first I believed the OP, but as a terran player and after watching the games, I'm certain he wasn't hacking. I posted a counter analysis on page 42, but it was just swarmed by other posts:
+ Show Spoiler +I'll be the first to admit that after reading the OP was was pretty sure Spades was hacking. I decided to watch the replays for myself, going through at normal speed, watching for mouse activity etc, and as a terran player, i'm 100% certain Spades was not hacking. I honestly think people are jumping to conclusions based on one person's assumptions, and selective reasoning. Anyway here's some of my opinons after watching the some of the replays: Show nested quote +
Game 1: Antiga Shipyard.
6:15 When he scouted he didn't see any evidence of fast gas, however, before scanning he already starts to build a bay for defending against cloack-banshee.
-Early engineering bays are not uncommon when you haven't scouted your opponents opener. Typically it is even earlier because if you wait till the standard scan at 6:15 you wont have turrets in time for cloak. -he is constantly cycling through the scv's at his mineral line which he can not do if he is looking away since they are not hotkeyed. Show nested quote +
9:30 New banshee from LucifroN is leaving his base, he moves his vikings, that had been waiting at the entry of his natural for over 30 sec to cover his main.
-at first i was suspicious of this, but after watching the other replays there is a common trait which isn't at all suprising. Spades is just ralling vikings in positions to ward off drops/banshees in general. On entombed (game 2) he is constantly ralling his vikings to the most likely drop edge of his base, then moves them where he needs them. He even keeps the vikings there throughout most of the time he doesn't have map control, like most terran would, even though luci isn't sending anything there. -also, again, if you watch is selection, even though his camera isn't moving in his base, he is cycling through/moving/building with scv's/units not hotkeyed in the camera shot and cant be looking away from his base during the time the banshee is built. Show nested quote +
10:45 He gets 2 marines to send them to the xel'naga, however, his camera doesn't move to the center of the map, it gets blocked on his army.
-most likely an attack move sent through the minimap. Not uncommon to send 2 marines this late in the game because if your opponent has the tower, the smoke limits vision and thus your single marine will die. Again, this late in the game, you'd be sure to send 2 marines since it is likely that your opponent has control of it. -He did hand select the starport at 11:02 since it is not hotkeyed by itself so he was at least looking there. However, Spades does not appear to select or interact with any non-hotkeyed units so he "could" have been looking at his opponents base if he did camera blocked. or since there wasn't much going on he could have been slightly idle. again, to each his own. Show nested quote +
Game 2: Entombed Valley
2:14 He sends the SCV without looking at where he's sending it and the camera gets blocked for 4 secs. However, he doesn't even look at LucifroN's base when the SCV reach it.
-The scv was sent via the minimap, a lot of players do it this way. Although, when it arrives, yes he doesn't pay attention to it. Could just be a derp moment, to each their own opinion. -In regards to the camera block, if you look at his apm, everything falls to 0, most likely this is an input lag issue, or maybe he took this time to reset his mouse. None of the other supposed blocks dropped the amp straight to 0. Show nested quote +
6:00 Even if he didn't even watch it, on the minimap you can see LucifroN had a gas, he had done the EXACT same openning as on game 1, however Spades doesn't make bay, neither raven, he goes directly for a viking and waste ALL his energy on a mule, as if he knew 100% sure cloack banshees weren't comming (weird as he didn't even scan).
-From what his minimap can tell him, there was no double gas, cant get cloak on one gas so no need for turrets. Show nested quote +
7:47 Notice how he sieges the tanks on the EXACT position for not being shot by the bunker
-imo just smart positioning, might look suspicious to some but to each their own. Show nested quote +
13:42 LucifroN advances 2 marines to kill Spades marine at the right of the map, would be obvious to think that LucifroN's army is comming behind, however spades doesn't move his army for about 30 sec.
-It looks like he was waiting for that 4th tank, and for stim to get closer to finishing. Only he knows why he waited. Show nested quote +
14:10 LucifroN's army is getting out of his base to that spot, Spades doesn't see ANYTHING, but he sieges his tanks right in the elevation and move his marines out of his base and puts them next to the spot LucifroN is going.
-he has the center watchtower, lucifron just scanned his army which indicates Lucifron was guaging his army size, and marines just cleared Spades scoute marine on that path 20 seconds earlier. Setting up on that cliff is the only logical decision. The op even stats that this would be obvious. Show nested quote +
20:30 first scan to LucifroN's base in the whole game!! Spots all his army and the third cc.
-he was using most of his prior scans to keep lucifron's tanks from killing off his tanks since he lost air superiority. Yes late scan, but it wasn't like Spades had a choice. Also, his medvacs at 16:40 saw anything worth seeing in his main. I'm still going through the replays, but imo, I think everyone is jumping to conclusions.
This is feeling a lot like a witchhunt since most of the people making all the noise haven't looked at the games themselves to form their own oppinion. They are basing their arguements on what one person said, who it turn just also basing their opinion from the next guy, and so on, usually back to the OP.
we dont even know who the op is or if there is some other motive.
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On June 05 2012 10:01 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:56 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community. His defense has been rushed and poor, if he wants to do it, he should do it properly. Regardless of his quilt/innocence, it doesn't matter one bit what he does. It will all be used as justification for his hacking. He doesn't respond right away - he's hiding so clearly a hacker Does respond right away - he's defensive and his explanation isn't perfect so clearly a hacker Even if he releases 1000 replays it won't change the opinion in the majority of peoples' mind's,
Its not looking good for him with the general attitude no, but it would be a good start to upload his folder of replays.. no reason not to!
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On June 05 2012 09:27 artanis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:12 Atokad wrote:I got to game 4 before i agree that there's too much going on. Game 4: Meta I'm more than willing to defend his scouting scv not having to have to look at it to turn it around and send it back to base. Sometimes I just want to know the position of the enemy, and he sees that it is blocked off on the minimap and sends it back. However, to this point: Game 4: Meta
Everything true, really suspicous at 7:30 where he moves his army towards the hellions without seeing, despite the fact he was moving back and forth in same place 10 seconds ago.
random chance 7:30 is all I needed to see. I watched it multiple times and there's no doubt in my mind that he sees the medivac dropping units and he's waiting for them to unload and start moving away from the cliff before he engages. No. I encourage you to watch this one and look at his clicks. He knows they are headed to the top right and takes the angle necessary to cut them off, despite not technically being able to see it. I was okay with the other stuff in the other games, timing related things he could have been familiar with by watching previous replays of this player etc, but this one play at 7:30 on game 4 Meta was just too much. Sorry sir, I have to agree with the OP. Yes, 7:30 on metal stands out noticeably.
He's supply blocked and production facilities are queued up so he dances his units around, and doesn't move towards the dropped hellions until he sees them. TvT close by air, I would be paranoid of drops too, if this is the most damning piece of evidence I vote not guilty.
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On June 05 2012 10:03 Neurosis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:58 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 09:56 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community. His defense has been rushed and poor, if he wants to do it, he should do it properly. Look at the situation from Spades point of view. Say he doesn't hack, why would he give a fuck about this thread? He's prolly shaking his head off. If there was a large thread about me hacking, I probably wouldn't give a shit either. That doesn't make sense. He is a pro gamer (isn't he?), this is how he makes a living. It's pretty important that a community is posting evidence that will more less destroy your entire career.
Yeah, but to be completely honest with you, I can't say that I'm impressed with how the community is "dealing" with this. This has turned into another big free-for-all witch hunt.
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On June 05 2012 10:04 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 10:01 Myles wrote:On June 05 2012 09:56 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community. His defense has been rushed and poor, if he wants to do it, he should do it properly. Regardless of his quilt/innocence, it doesn't matter one bit what he does. It will all be used as justification for his hacking. He doesn't respond right away - he's hiding so clearly a hacker Does respond right away - he's defensive and his explanation isn't perfect so clearly a hacker Even if he releases 1000 replays it won't change the opinion in the majority of peoples' mind's, Its not looking good for him with the general attitude no, but it would be a good start to upload his folder of replays.. no reason not to!
He doesn't owe you anything. That's the best part of all this - the entitlement. When he takes a tournament away from you, maybe you can complain. In the mean time, we're just all angry scrubs looking for our 15 minutes.
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On June 05 2012 10:05 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 10:03 Neurosis wrote:On June 05 2012 09:58 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 09:56 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community. His defense has been rushed and poor, if he wants to do it, he should do it properly. Look at the situation from Spades point of view. Say he doesn't hack, why would he give a fuck about this thread? He's prolly shaking his head off. If there was a large thread about me hacking, I probably wouldn't give a shit either. That doesn't make sense. He is a pro gamer (isn't he?), this is how he makes a living. It's pretty important that a community is posting evidence that will more less destroy your entire career. Yeah, but to be completely honest with you, I can't say that I'm impressed with how the community is "dealing" with this. This has turned into another big free-for-all witch hunt.
exactly. People need to chill, wait for a definite verdict, and then react.
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I feel bad for Spades here. This topic, no matter what the outcome will ruin his image and most likely his career, and all because of someone who is committing libel (if the OP is wrong). Knowing the circumstances of these matches, a showmatch where the replays will almost definitely be released, and there is no money up for grabs; plus him being a hacker in BW who rebuilt his image for SC2. He had no reason to hack, it's a waste of his time and stupid.
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EPT
