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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 09:48 Haustka wrote:
everyone says he hacks, well what we really should be asking is HOW he is hacking and blizzard should prevent ppl from using this method.
No, there has always been and always will be cheaters in any online game ever. There were people maphacking in beta for sc2, you can't stop it from happening you can only punish the people that choose to use it.
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On June 05 2012 09:50 lulutheking wrote:
I have a stupid question here , why a Map Hackers would use scan anyway ?
Is it only to appear straight and honest or does it shows something Maphack doesn't ?
So it looks like they don't hack and can use it as an excuse. "I don't hack, I sometimes scan!"
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On June 05 2012 09:50 lulutheking wrote:
I have a stupid question here , why a Map Hackers would use scan anyway ?
Is it only to appear straight and honest or does it shows something Maphack doesn't ?
It would be notably strange/suspicious if Spades never scanned once in the whole series.
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On June 05 2012 09:48 Haustka wrote:
everyone says he hacks, well what we really should be asking is HOW he is hacking and blizzard should prevent ppl from using this method.
Blizzards hack protection looks at the application level for injections into Sc2 etc, these hacks manipulate at a lower level I have heard which can't be detected with Blizzards current defense.. :/
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On June 05 2012 09:11 legaton wrote:Hahahahahaha, oh my god, this is almost worst than hacking, enjoy your ads guys! As i said early, the NA "scene" only lives for/thanks to drama.
What is wrong with pros going over the replays? That is what almost everyone is calling for in this thread.
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Hmm, interesting situation. A few notes after reading the thread.
One of the things fueling the debate is that Spades is not really responding to the points made. The commentary is 90% comments of the kind: "there is no way I can prove I'm not hacking. My career is over". Nerchio has done the most of what seems to be the consensus on how to resolve the issue ie. analyzing the games. But even the good examples of game analysis seem hurried at this point (for obvious reasons).
Perhaps it would help if people took a break, analyzed the games and wrote it up cogently. Looking at the points made, and responding to them in a way which is more than saying: a) it was luck, b) it was standard (what is standard and why?) or c) woe is me.
I personally think the OP did enough to raise the issue, analyzing 7 games in detail is a lot of work. Yet, it's not sufficient to make the decision and should not be, it's up to the community to do a much broader and deeper analysis.
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lol hilarious. just like in brood war spades. deny deny deny, then finally you come clean and apologize. whats different now?
User was warned for this post
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On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking..
So you'd rather no one defend spades?
Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community.
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hmmmm idk.
I'm not nearly high level enough to think my opinion on the replays matter, but the one part where he selects an scv WHILE looking at fog... I have no fucking clue how you can possibly do that without hacking unless SC2 is glitched.
I hope he isn't hacking again though, I like spades...
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On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community.
His defense has been rushed and poor, if he wants to do it, he should do it properly.
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I'm terrible and I swear people have maphacked against me. There doesn't have to be money on the line or some prize for some one to abuse a hack or unfair advantage. I'm not knowledgeable on the situation so I can't say one way or the other if he is truly hacking but I guess the upcoming MLG games will serve as a good control comparison to his replay games, assuming he releases them.
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On June 05 2012 09:50 lulutheking wrote:
I have a stupid question here , why a Map Hackers would use scan anyway ?
Is it only to appear straight and honest or does it shows something Maphack doesn't ?
ROFL, u seriously? he could wrote and shout that he uses hacks aswell... lol
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On June 05 2012 09:53 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:11 legaton wrote:Hahahahahaha, oh my god, this is almost worst than hacking, enjoy your ads guys! As i said early, the NA "scene" only lives for/thanks to drama. What is wrong with pros going over the replays? That is what almost everyone is calling for in this thread.
its just the fact that its Catz drewbie etc.^^
Imagine if players like Babyknight, Beastyqt and Kas decided to do that xD
no offense man, thats just what the guy above means I think
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What's different now is that he changed himself around, would he ever get a break if everyone follows this kind of logic?
On June 05 2012 09:55 -UMADIMSTYLIN- wrote:
lol hilarious. just like in brood war spades. deny deny deny, then finally you come clean and apologize. whats different now?
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Much like several others have mentioned, 7:30 on Metalopolis was what convinced me, too.
Spades selects his army and begins juking and jiving at the exact moment Lucifron loads his hellions into the medivac. Spades then immediately adopts a path to intercept the hellions despite how, according to his vision, he cannot see them. Watch the moment several times, several times from Spade's perspective and several times from the everyone camera.
It is extremely, extremely suspicious.
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On June 05 2012 09:55 Flonomenalz wrote:
hmmmm idk.
I'm not nearly high level enough to think my opinion on the replays matter, but the one part where he selects an scv WHILE looking at fog... I have no fucking clue how you can possibly do that without hacking unless SC2 is glitched.
I hope he isn't hacking again though, I like spades...
If it was a idle scv you can select it with F1 and move it around clicking on the mini map. I do it all the time. You don't have to look at a scv to move it around.
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On June 05 2012 09:56 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community. His defense has been rushed and poor, if he wants to do it, he should do it properly.
Look at the situation from Spades point of view. Say he doesn't hack, why would he give a fuck about this thread? He's prolly shaking his head off. If there was a large thread about me hacking, I probably wouldn't give a shit either.
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On June 05 2012 09:56 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community. His defense has been rushed and poor, if he wants to do it, he should do it properly.
I read the defense. Makes sense to me. I read nerchio's defense of him too.
You're a nobody saying stupid shit trying to cause drama. Have you even watched the replays? I doubt it.
User was warned for this post
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On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking..
The evidence presented isn't immediately conclusive of hacking. Why can't anyone try to be reasonable and point this out without also being accused of defending Spades? Lol. There have been a lot of posts that assume the evidence is conclusive and discuss with insinuations that Spades is guilty of hacking.
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On June 05 2012 09:55 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:45 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 07:09 Nerchio wrote:
I am a bit sleepy so it won't be as detailed as i would like it to be although i will try my best. To start off, i am not a friend of Spades and i don't even know him personally i guess we never even talked. If he hacked i'd be the first person to shout it out and i am glad that this topic turned into some kind of a discussion(but only a few people say reasonable things and only those should speak that saw the replays). Kind of weird how hard you are trying to defend him for someone who you don't even know and who has a history of hacking.. So you'd rather no one defend spades? Kind of weird how you've managed to get above 2k posts and manage to be such a useless member of the community.
I find it pretty difficult to defend Spades. All it takes is "I understand how there were some suspicious things in these replays, but here's a bunch of ladder games I've played before and after the show match, I hope this clears things up." Instead he has had a generally bad attitude towards these accusations and initially tried to brush them off as ridiculous, and then tried to explain them logically, but left out a lot of very suspicious things, and the things he did explain were for the most part "Guess I got lucky." I was totally unbiased entering this, as I have never really followed Spades, but now I'm leaning towards him hacking.
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EPT
