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Confirmed BW Progamers race transition - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
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StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
May 10 2012 21:38 GMT
#121
On May 11 2012 05:56 DieterEilts wrote:
yeah MVP said that, and i think he's right


Many people said it, but people will just keep banking on one of the poster boys. -_-
Let it Raine
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1245 Posts
May 10 2012 21:43 GMT
#122
On May 11 2012 06:36 knOxStarcraft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 05:53 ZAiNs wrote:
On May 11 2012 05:24 knOxStarcraft wrote:
On May 11 2012 03:58 Demonhunter04 wrote:
On May 11 2012 03:45 darkness wrote:
On May 11 2012 03:44 Demonhunter04 wrote:
On May 11 2012 03:41 Radament wrote:
"This has been stated from many players and coaches all over the BW teams that BW zerg players are having a hard time in SCII."


I'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks zerg is so hard in sc2.

I wonder what Blizzard will think of this?

Does that mean the zerg players from broodwar that play zerg in sc2?


What league are you? Unless you're top 5 Master you really shouldn't say anything about "Zerg feeling hard". The effect of balance on your results is dwarfed by the effect of your own skill.


And there goes elitism.


It's not elitism. The game is balanced enough that the tiny imbalances won't decide your games.

Who are you to say the game is "balanced enough"? For the game to really be balanced, two people of even skill should always play very close games. Therefore, balance is just as relevant for lower leagues as higher leagues because skill is a factor. Skill is impossible to give a value to of course so testing balance is near impossible.

It is impossible for Blizzard to balance the game for every skill level. Do you think Blizzard should balance for high level play or low level play?

High level ofc. I was just tired of people saying balance doesn't exist in the lower leagues because it does. And really who should they balance for? The Korean scene shows zergs are having far more trouble than they are in the foreign scene so a zerg buff will make the Korean zergs on par but may make the foreign zergs more powerful in their respective scenes.


lower leagues everything is beaten with basic cheese defense knowledge and better macro

do you think imbalance exists when everyone is playing 20% efficiency, or are lower league players making excuses for their losses?
Grandmaster Zerg x14. Diamond 1 LoL. MLG 50, Halo 3. Raine.
Tzunami
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia19 Posts
May 10 2012 21:46 GMT
#123
The problem with changing to Protoss due to their imbalance, is that soon enough Blizzard are going to balance them anyway..so there's only going to be a short window of oppertunity to abuse their power. And as for Zerg being too weak, the same premise would be true in reverse; especially with HoTS coming soon.

I would prefer to see my old heros playing their standard races! I almost feel sorry for Jaedong and Flash. Everybody expects them to perform better than the current GSL CODE-S champions even before they know the mechanics of the game correctly. The only person who has a very high chance of performing amazingly outright in my opinion, would be Stork or Bisu if they change. I think their dragoon control skills will transfer well to stalker micro. And holding bases is wildly easier for Protoss in Starcraft 2 than it was in broodwar. Good thread! Thanks for posting!
"This is many tanks, yes?"
Kimaker
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2131 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-10 21:49:17
May 10 2012 21:48 GMT
#124
-_-

Of course...I finish the OP and get all excited about the possible race changes, and what do I see? Balance whining.

Asymmetical balance people. Get used to it. It existed in BW, it's not going anywhere.

More appropriately, Bisu stick with Toss! WOOT!
Entusman #54 (-_-) ||"Gold is for the Mistress-Silver for the Maid-Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade. "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, But Iron — Cold Iron — is master of them all|| "Optimism is Cowardice."- Oswald Spengler
a9arnn
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1537 Posts
May 10 2012 21:54 GMT
#125
Banshees are way better than wraiths, Leta is pleased .
VOD finder guy for sc2ratings.com/ ! aka: ogndrahcir, a9azn2 | Go ZerO, Stork, Sea, and KawaiiRice :D | nesc2league.com/forum/index.php | youtube.com/watch?v=oaGtjWL5mZo
ThePlayer33
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia2378 Posts
May 10 2012 21:56 GMT
#126
Please!! we need zerg heroes!!!!
| Idra | YuGiOh | Leenock | Coca |
IMHope
Profile Joined February 2011
Korea (South)1241 Posts
May 10 2012 21:58 GMT
#127
Thank you for sharing this information. Will be interesting how playing a different race will turn out for some of the players that are switching.
Jessica Jung, Kim Taeyeon, Kwon Yuri <333
shadowboxer
Profile Joined November 2010
United States224 Posts
May 10 2012 22:00 GMT
#128
On May 11 2012 03:41 roym899 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 03:37 Destroyr wrote:
On May 11 2012 03:34 OpTicalRH wrote:
Yeah, many all of existing BW players are complaining about Zerg + Show Spoiler +
imbalances
, poor Jaedong :/


I think this might be due to ladder practice. Artosis mentioned that the korean ladder is full of aggressive strange cheese builds... probably with the current zerg arsenal it is hard to play against that. But i am only assuming. Maybe someone who is acctually playing there knows more about it

No, i don't think so. Ofc you can win with Zerg and so on. But one problem with SCII right now is, that for Zerg it's very hard to win constantly, because you are reluctant on mistakes of the other races more then those are reluctant on Zergs mistakes. Just my opinion. Although I'm only a Diamond Zerg who played Terran before. But it's my experience and also the way you see Zerg pros struggle to constantly get very good tournement results... look at DRG, Stephano or Nestea. All of them get knocked out in a very early round of a tournement in the last few major tournaments. I think that Terran is the most consistent race. Protoss is hard to tell but Toss is getting better and better in the last time.


You meant reliant, not reluctant.

The situation you're speaking of doesn't apply to every game. Generally when that happens, zerg has put himself in a bad spot because of overreacting or teching incorrectly due to poor scouting or hidden tech from the opponent. You don't start a game reliant on the other races to make a mistake, you put yourself in that situation accidentally and then you're relying on the opponent to make a mistake to climb your way back into the game. The difference is the other races have options available to them that provide openings for a comeback that Zerg doesn't. It's not a balance issue either, it's just the way the race works.

I feel like the reason a lot of Zergs are switching is because of just how different BW zerg is compared to SC2. They're not even remotely similar in playstyle or mechanics. The race takes a lot of getting used to and I feel like pros that are used to being amazing are going to want to show instant results/progression which SC2 zerg isn't going to give. Those that choose to stick with it and grind out the early learning process will be absolutely fine.
"Hear that? That's God laughing at your plans."
Balgrog
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1221 Posts
May 10 2012 22:07 GMT
#129
As stated before, as long as jaedong is a zerg we will be fine, I do wish yellow gave SC2 more of a chance
The only way to attack structure is with chaos.
NGrNecris
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand855 Posts
May 10 2012 22:13 GMT
#130
On May 11 2012 06:54 a9arnn wrote:
Banshees are way better than wraiths, Leta is pleased .

Wraiths are much cooler though
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
May 10 2012 22:13 GMT
#131
This has been stated from many players and coaches all over the BW teams that BW zerg players are having a hard time in SCII.


Eat that.

I'm not saying zerg is weaker, I don't even necessarily think they are. I've just always thought zerg is/was hard for players to adapt to. If they have trouble too, it makes ya kinda feel good about it.
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
a9arnn
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1537 Posts
May 10 2012 22:14 GMT
#132
On May 11 2012 07:13 NGrNecris wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 06:54 a9arnn wrote:
Banshees are way better than wraiths, Leta is pleased .

Wraiths are much cooler though

Yeah, that's true :D.
VOD finder guy for sc2ratings.com/ ! aka: ogndrahcir, a9azn2 | Go ZerO, Stork, Sea, and KawaiiRice :D | nesc2league.com/forum/index.php | youtube.com/watch?v=oaGtjWL5mZo
FlyingDike
Profile Joined December 2011
United States221 Posts
May 10 2012 22:17 GMT
#133
You should prob include this for hype.
Forgg: "When I started Starcraft 2 by myself at home, it took me about 2 months for me to reach top 10 in Grandmaster. If players work in a team, they should be able to do that even more quickly."
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
May 10 2012 22:20 GMT
#134
On May 11 2012 07:00 shadowboxer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 03:41 roym899 wrote:
On May 11 2012 03:37 Destroyr wrote:
On May 11 2012 03:34 OpTicalRH wrote:
Yeah, many all of existing BW players are complaining about Zerg + Show Spoiler +
imbalances
, poor Jaedong :/


I think this might be due to ladder practice. Artosis mentioned that the korean ladder is full of aggressive strange cheese builds... probably with the current zerg arsenal it is hard to play against that. But i am only assuming. Maybe someone who is acctually playing there knows more about it

No, i don't think so. Ofc you can win with Zerg and so on. But one problem with SCII right now is, that for Zerg it's very hard to win constantly, because you are reluctant on mistakes of the other races more then those are reluctant on Zergs mistakes. Just my opinion. Although I'm only a Diamond Zerg who played Terran before. But it's my experience and also the way you see Zerg pros struggle to constantly get very good tournement results... look at DRG, Stephano or Nestea. All of them get knocked out in a very early round of a tournement in the last few major tournaments. I think that Terran is the most consistent race. Protoss is hard to tell but Toss is getting better and better in the last time.


You meant reliant, not reluctant.

The situation you're speaking of doesn't apply to every game. Generally when that happens, zerg has put himself in a bad spot because of overreacting or teching incorrectly due to poor scouting or hidden tech from the opponent. You don't start a game reliant on the other races to make a mistake, you put yourself in that situation accidentally and then you're relying on the opponent to make a mistake to climb your way back into the game. The difference is the other races have options available to them that provide openings for a comeback that Zerg doesn't. It's not a balance issue either, it's just the way the race works.

I feel like the reason a lot of Zergs are switching is because of just how different BW zerg is compared to SC2. They're not even remotely similar in playstyle or mechanics. The race takes a lot of getting used to and I feel like pros that are used to being amazing are going to want to show instant results/progression which SC2 zerg isn't going to give. Those that choose to stick with it and grind out the early learning process will be absolutely fine.

Not only that, but experience plays a huge factor in SC2 Zerg. We saw this at the beginning of SC2, where Zergs had to understand what all-ins/aggression to expect and how they had to control their units to counter or even stay alive. Zerg has an amazing ability to be reactive to an attack, but you have to know the precise way to react or you're screwed in today's top level of play. It gives the illusion that you aren't making progress or getting better, since there is a LOT of stuff they haven't seen in practice in the very small window they've been playing.
ES.Genie
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany1370 Posts
May 10 2012 22:20 GMT
#135
On May 11 2012 07:17 FlyingDike wrote:
You should prob include this for hype.
Forgg: "When I started Starcraft 2 by myself at home, it took me about 2 months for me to reach top 10 in Grandmaster. If players work in a team, they should be able to do that even more quickly."

Yeah and lets just forget the second part of his answer:
"However, the problem is that Starcraft 2 is completely different to how it used to be. You have to pay attention to so many more things that may seem insignificant at first and skill on the ladder has improved considerably too. I improved pretty quickly then but if I were to do it now, it would take much longer. "
...
No Mvp, no care. ~ the King will be back | Shawn Ray, Kevin Levrone, Phil Heath |
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
May 10 2012 22:20 GMT
#136
im happy that Jangbi sticks to Protoss. I would love to see him play p in sc2 as well as some other obvious names: Bisu, Stork....
Broodwar for life!
FlyingDike
Profile Joined December 2011
United States221 Posts
May 10 2012 22:24 GMT
#137
On May 11 2012 07:20 ES.Genie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 07:17 FlyingDike wrote:
You should prob include this for hype.
Forgg: "When I started Starcraft 2 by myself at home, it took me about 2 months for me to reach top 10 in Grandmaster. If players work in a team, they should be able to do that even more quickly."

Yeah and lets just forget the second part of his answer:
"However, the problem is that Starcraft 2 is completely different to how it used to be. You have to pay attention to so many more things that may seem insignificant at first and skill on the ladder has improved considerably too. I improved pretty quickly then but if I were to do it now, it would take much longer. "
...

That's why I said for hype.
1st_Panzer_Div.
Profile Joined November 2010
United States621 Posts
May 10 2012 22:28 GMT
#138
On May 11 2012 06:48 Kimaker wrote:
-_-

Of course...I finish the OP and get all excited about the possible race changes, and what do I see? Balance whining.

Asymmetical balance people. Get used to it. It existed in BW, it's not going anywhere.

More appropriately, Bisu stick with Toss! WOOT!


Not enough race switching to zerg, clearly it's a balance issue! As long as JD stays zerg, I'm cool with all the other race switching. Especially FBH ^^
Manager, Team RIP ZeeZ
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
May 10 2012 22:32 GMT
#139
"-KT Rolster coach Lee Ji Hoon states: Flash wanted to try Protoss but has not changed the race. It is too early to decide whether to change or not."

if flash changes to protoss i might just kill myself
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
May 10 2012 22:34 GMT
#140
On May 11 2012 07:32 MorroW wrote:
"-KT Rolster coach Lee Ji Hoon states: Flash wanted to try Protoss but has not changed the race. It is too early to decide whether to change or not."

if flash changes to protoss i might just kill myself


On the bright side if he's a dominant player as protoss we might get some protoss nerfs for zvp!
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