On May 08 2012 18:32 imMUTAble787 wrote: Glad everyone is so excited about paying for things that should have been included in WoL or patched in for free.
Now i like to give Blizzard a hard time for a lot of things but that is just wrong. They have worked on WOL for 2 years now, from balance to engine improvements. Verry few companies do that, for free.
You must be confused... every company does patches for free. The only thing that companies charge for are add-ons (DLC's).... I have not see any company that charges for their own patches... If so, do tell.
Anyways, this is fucking awesome! Finally they have told the community what they will do for HoTS and it is what we all wanted. Browder said they could not add LAN due to the engine, so if you want LAN wait 4 years for LoV (it is not going to happen, but i hope lag will deteriorate in the coming years... and i think he said it when Catz was interviewing him last year).
Clan support and Unranked ladder is just damn great!
Can't wait for HoTS! Thank you blizzard for listening to what the community wants!
I'm not actually really sure I will buy Hots anytime soon, because Starcraft 2 is still a beta game,with all these functionalities lacking, the sad thing is that there are blind people that don't understand that even if in beta state it is sold as a complete game. No wonders that blizzard became like that, wanna bet with me hots will be sold for 60€, not just as a mere expansion? And blizzard fanboys will start saying "ehhhh that's a huge new game you are just a pathetic worthless piece of life if you don't see how good blizzard is on delivering us what we wanted". Yes, delivering a new game to complete a beta game. And milking out people' wallet, and people still don't understand it, how fools they are, they just trust in Blizzard.....
I hope not to be the only one that is able to see what Blizzard is doing... Making games with half the features they should have to have people ready to buy the day one the expansion. Great marketing, nonetheless, because poeple still fall for it.
But I hope that when there will be an alternative to starcraft 2( if there will never be), I will be the first to abandon blizzard's ship
Well think of it like this... They have to release two expansions... So just new units will not make the community happy. The community sucks to make happy, since they want this and that. Look at CoD, same game every year with different skins and small additions. People will buy things that has a well known name attached to whatever they sell. I had a feeling they would add all of this in the next expansion. Since new units will not be enough to keep people satisfied to buy HoTS. So, yes it is good marketing, since they are with activision. They are getting told on how consumers work.
You do not understand how the gaming market works. Some companies will do this since recession is still here and games are not selling as well they were in the past. I never said it wont be a new game, but they listened to what we want. Well, I am not a fanboy of blizzard because it is actually Activsion-Blizzard. The game is not getting milked ( Halo and God of War are milked games). The game will be below 60 dorras... did you get the memo? And you are not the first person to abandon "blizzard's ship", a lot of people have.
Something tells me Sergio1992 is one of the few remaining BW elitists left here on TL. There are so many fail points to your post, it makes your opinion invalid.
Saying WoL is simply a beta game, is outrageous and wrong. What do you think 90% of the invested money goes towards? Multiplayer-Nope Patches-Nope
Guess what does!! Singleplayer!! Do you have any idea how much cgi costs? Let alone 30 missions full of 3d rendered motion images, full music soundtrack. Voice acting, etc. It is absolutely worth 60 dollars, and is not just an expansion.
Just because we bitched about things such as -lan -clan support -replay sharing
Doesn't mean we are entitled to it, which is a huge problem in this community. Sense of entitlement. I don't blame blizzard for protecting their IP rights, with no lan. That way there is no ICcup etc. As awesome as ICcup was for us, it was a way to play the game for free and blizz lost out in the end, regardless of what you. In my personal life I can name 3 friends that played BW ICCup, and never paid for the retail version at all, ever. Times that by just the amount of people that frequent this site alone and that's a dickload of lost income.
They don't make this shit for free, and certaintly didn't make sc2 out of the goodness of there hearts for us. They are a FOR PROFIT business, and therefore don't give a shit if they don't make a profit.
Tl;DR Grow up man, you don't get shit for free in the real world, you are spoiled and probably to young to remember the pre internet days where you actually had to pay for everything.
There is one little thing you forget in your memo of capitalism: the customer. Grow up man, people don't just give you money for free in the real world. You are spoiled and probably too young to remember the pre-ZYNGA days where you actually have to satisfy a customer.
Sure Blizzard is a business, no shit Sherlock. Though one would think an optimally run business would look back at things they did great and were loved for and try to preserve it. At makes much sense to actively decide to scrap things that worked in favor of Facebook integration and a complete cripple of the custom game system.
All the infrastructure arguments are pure bullshit. When you create a system from scratch, it's the single biggest opportunity to make things exactly the way you want it to. The fact WoL came a decade later also means you have contemporary technology available. "You can't re-create what was done years ago"- what non-sense. More than ever you can. Better than ever. More efficient than ever. Creating from scratch means to define exactly the capabilities and not to be constrained by old tech. When the net-code of WoL doesn't allow it, means only three things:
1) You never wanted it to be possible 2) It is possible, but you always wanted to release it later in favor of other things 3) It is bad net-code
Of the three possibilities, there is valid room to critic- as a customer. I don't have to care whether and why they didn't want or couldn't do this or that. All I know is that the features existed for decades, contemporary rival companies were always able to produce them, and for whatever reason it was decided to leave them out to release after. For money, because of bad programming- I don't have to care. It first and foremost is their problem.
There is also a little thing called, having the option to NOT buy the product if you think it sucks. No point in buying a game if you're just gonna whine/moan/bitch about it after the fact. You bought the game as is, so why bitch now? Did you walk into w/e u bought WoL pissed off giving them your money?
They could have just meh, fuck it no free patches. They don't have to do shit after the fact, just like how Heinz doesn't have to come refill my ketchup bottle every time it empties.
Your capitalism argument is just plain stupid. You weren't anywhere apart of who I was responding to. So if you're going to try and be cute, be original son. Come up with your own shit instead of copy/paste/change 1 word.
My argument is plain stupid, because supply-demand is no fundamental principle? Or what did I miss, please do enlighten me.
Who said I bought it?
Definition:Capitalism is an economic and social system in which the means of production are privately controlled.
I'm no longer going to argue with someone from Germany. An entirely different country, with different ideals, about a completely different topic than the OP.
Where I'm from, that's called blunt racism, but hey, I'm from Europe.
Resuming from replays is only useful for live events/tournaments (which would ideally be lan anyway). How could it possible work for the average Joe (ladder player) ?
1) You get disconnected from a ladder game. 2) Reconnect 3) Find opponent, hope he's still on, hope he's not currently busy, and then hope he's nice enough to want to restart game rather than taking a free win 4) Restart game.
On May 09 2012 09:27 KingofGods wrote: Resuming from replays is only useful for live events/tournaments (which would ideally be lan anyway). How could it possible work for the average Joe (ladder player) ?
1) You get disconnected from a ladder game. 2) Reconnect 3) Find opponent, hope he's still on, hope he's not currently busy, and then hope he's nice enough to want to restart game rather than taking a free win 4) Restart game.
Its quite obvious that it is designed for tournaments/live avents rather then the average joe laddering.
Hmm, I'm really quite surprised so many people think Blizzard intentionally omitted all these features as a ploy to get them to buy HOTS - that's just not good business sense. Think about it, getting their fanbase displeased and having to convince/draw them back from other games (e.g. LoL) is considerably more work than maintaining already satisfied customers happy.
Imagine if WoL was more polished and came out with all these features from the start - everyone would enjoy the game more, their opinion of Blizzard would be considerably better, when you have a reputation for making high quality products, don't you think more people would automatically purchase the expansion without any hesitation? Adding more good stuff to an excellent product is always better than adding great stuff to an average product.
So as for why these features didn't come out with WoL - its probably one of two things imo. First is perhaps something to do with meeting the release date deadline at that time. But the more likely reason I believe is that they just did not realize how important these features were to the game. Its pretty much a fact that a lot of times developers don't know what exactly made the predecessor successful, otherwise you would not have had so many sequels of games that fall completely flat due to a changed formula. I'm pretty sure Blizzard realizes something isn't quite right with SC2 at the moment - thus it makes sense and is natural for them to listen what the community wants, which is essentially every feature listed here along with some of the things mentioned in patch 1.5. Its not perfect yet, but at least its getting there~
On May 08 2012 18:48 Sapphire.lux wrote: [quote] Now i like to give Blizzard a hard time for a lot of things but that is just wrong. They have worked on WOL for 2 years now, from balance to engine improvements. Verry few companies do that, for free.
You must be confused... every company does patches for free. The only thing that companies charge for are add-ons (DLC's).... I have not see any company that charges for their own patches... If so, do tell.
Anyways, this is fucking awesome! Finally they have told the community what they will do for HoTS and it is what we all wanted. Browder said they could not add LAN due to the engine, so if you want LAN wait 4 years for LoV (it is not going to happen, but i hope lag will deteriorate in the coming years... and i think he said it when Catz was interviewing him last year).
Clan support and Unranked ladder is just damn great!
Can't wait for HoTS! Thank you blizzard for listening to what the community wants!
I'm not actually really sure I will buy Hots anytime soon, because Starcraft 2 is still a beta game,with all these functionalities lacking, the sad thing is that there are blind people that don't understand that even if in beta state it is sold as a complete game. No wonders that blizzard became like that, wanna bet with me hots will be sold for 60€, not just as a mere expansion? And blizzard fanboys will start saying "ehhhh that's a huge new game you are just a pathetic worthless piece of life if you don't see how good blizzard is on delivering us what we wanted". Yes, delivering a new game to complete a beta game. And milking out people' wallet, and people still don't understand it, how fools they are, they just trust in Blizzard.....
I hope not to be the only one that is able to see what Blizzard is doing... Making games with half the features they should have to have people ready to buy the day one the expansion. Great marketing, nonetheless, because poeple still fall for it.
But I hope that when there will be an alternative to starcraft 2( if there will never be), I will be the first to abandon blizzard's ship
Well think of it like this... They have to release two expansions... So just new units will not make the community happy. The community sucks to make happy, since they want this and that. Look at CoD, same game every year with different skins and small additions. People will buy things that has a well known name attached to whatever they sell. I had a feeling they would add all of this in the next expansion. Since new units will not be enough to keep people satisfied to buy HoTS. So, yes it is good marketing, since they are with activision. They are getting told on how consumers work.
You do not understand how the gaming market works. Some companies will do this since recession is still here and games are not selling as well they were in the past. I never said it wont be a new game, but they listened to what we want. Well, I am not a fanboy of blizzard because it is actually Activsion-Blizzard. The game is not getting milked ( Halo and God of War are milked games). The game will be below 60 dorras... did you get the memo? And you are not the first person to abandon "blizzard's ship", a lot of people have.
Something tells me Sergio1992 is one of the few remaining BW elitists left here on TL. There are so many fail points to your post, it makes your opinion invalid.
Saying WoL is simply a beta game, is outrageous and wrong. What do you think 90% of the invested money goes towards? Multiplayer-Nope Patches-Nope
Guess what does!! Singleplayer!! Do you have any idea how much cgi costs? Let alone 30 missions full of 3d rendered motion images, full music soundtrack. Voice acting, etc. It is absolutely worth 60 dollars, and is not just an expansion.
Just because we bitched about things such as -lan -clan support -replay sharing
Doesn't mean we are entitled to it, which is a huge problem in this community. Sense of entitlement. I don't blame blizzard for protecting their IP rights, with no lan. That way there is no ICcup etc. As awesome as ICcup was for us, it was a way to play the game for free and blizz lost out in the end, regardless of what you. In my personal life I can name 3 friends that played BW ICCup, and never paid for the retail version at all, ever. Times that by just the amount of people that frequent this site alone and that's a dickload of lost income.
They don't make this shit for free, and certaintly didn't make sc2 out of the goodness of there hearts for us. They are a FOR PROFIT business, and therefore don't give a shit if they don't make a profit.
Tl;DR Grow up man, you don't get shit for free in the real world, you are spoiled and probably to young to remember the pre internet days where you actually had to pay for everything.
There is one little thing you forget in your memo of capitalism: the customer. Grow up man, people don't just give you money for free in the real world. You are spoiled and probably too young to remember the pre-ZYNGA days where you actually have to satisfy a customer.
Sure Blizzard is a business, no shit Sherlock. Though one would think an optimally run business would look back at things they did great and were loved for and try to preserve it. At makes much sense to actively decide to scrap things that worked in favor of Facebook integration and a complete cripple of the custom game system.
All the infrastructure arguments are pure bullshit. When you create a system from scratch, it's the single biggest opportunity to make things exactly the way you want it to. The fact WoL came a decade later also means you have contemporary technology available. "You can't re-create what was done years ago"- what non-sense. More than ever you can. Better than ever. More efficient than ever. Creating from scratch means to define exactly the capabilities and not to be constrained by old tech. When the net-code of WoL doesn't allow it, means only three things:
1) You never wanted it to be possible 2) It is possible, but you always wanted to release it later in favor of other things 3) It is bad net-code
Of the three possibilities, there is valid room to critic- as a customer. I don't have to care whether and why they didn't want or couldn't do this or that. All I know is that the features existed for decades, contemporary rival companies were always able to produce them, and for whatever reason it was decided to leave them out to release after. For money, because of bad programming- I don't have to care. It first and foremost is their problem.
There is also a little thing called, having the option to NOT buy the product if you think it sucks. No point in buying a game if you're just gonna whine/moan/bitch about it after the fact. You bought the game as is, so why bitch now? Did you walk into w/e u bought WoL pissed off giving them your money?
They could have just meh, fuck it no free patches. They don't have to do shit after the fact, just like how Heinz doesn't have to come refill my ketchup bottle every time it empties.
Your capitalism argument is just plain stupid. You weren't anywhere apart of who I was responding to. So if you're going to try and be cute, be original son. Come up with your own shit instead of copy/paste/change 1 word.
My argument is plain stupid, because supply-demand is no fundamental principle? Or what did I miss, please do enlighten me.
Who said I bought it?
Definition:Capitalism is an economic and social system in which the means of production are privately controlled.
I'm no longer going to argue with someone from Germany. An entirely different country, with different ideals, about a completely different topic than the OP.
Where I'm from, that's called blunt racism, but hey, I'm from Europe.
That's hardly racist. Not even close, it's a fact that the Democratic republic of Germany, has a different buisness model than the U.S.A/Canada. What he calls capitalist, I would refer to as democratic. I didn't knock him at all for being german/ from germany.
Edit: Ok nvm I understand what you saw. I didn't mean it as, I won't talk to him because he is german and I hate germans. Not at all. All I meant was, the original debate was grossly derailed, and we will probably never come to terms anyways.
Blizzard takes 2-3 years to implement things that could be done in a single day by one person. Meanwhile, riot creates a spectator mode with automated observing and features pro games in main lobby. Nothing to do with league or starcraft, but blizzard doesnt even have half the drive of riot in supporting their respective games.
In the end its all about taking your money by promising you these "new features" after making WoL as bland as possible.
omg omg!! thanks blizzard for these amazing features!!!!
On May 09 2012 09:27 KingofGods wrote: Resuming from replays is only useful for live events/tournaments (which would ideally be lan anyway). How could it possible work for the average Joe (ladder player) ?
1) You get disconnected from a ladder game. 2) Reconnect 3) Find opponent, hope he's still on, hope he's not currently busy, and then hope he's nice enough to want to restart game rather than taking a free win 4) Restart game.
I'm fairly certain that the feature is not for everyday laddering.
On May 08 2012 18:32 imMUTAble787 wrote: Glad everyone is so excited about paying for things that should have been included in WoL or patched in for free.
Now i like to give Blizzard a hard time for a lot of things but that is just wrong. They have worked on WOL for 2 years now, from balance to engine improvements. Verry few companies do that, for free.
You must be confused... every company does patches for free. The only thing that companies charge for are add-ons (DLC's).... I have not see any company that charges for their own patches... If so, do tell.
Anyways, this is fucking awesome! Finally they have told the community what they will do for HoTS and it is what we all wanted. Browder said they could not add LAN due to the engine, so if you want LAN wait 4 years for LoV (it is not going to happen, but i hope lag will deteriorate in the coming years... and i think he said it when Catz was interviewing him last year).
Clan support and Unranked ladder is just damn great!
Can't wait for HoTS! Thank you blizzard for listening to what the community wants!
I'm not actually really sure I will buy Hots anytime soon, because Starcraft 2 is still a beta game,with all these functionalities lacking, the sad thing is that there are blind people that don't understand that even if in beta state it is sold as a complete game. No wonders that blizzard became like that, wanna bet with me hots will be sold for 60€, not just as a mere expansion? And blizzard fanboys will start saying "ehhhh that's a huge new game you are just a pathetic worthless piece of life if you don't see how good blizzard is on delivering us what we wanted". Yes, delivering a new game to complete a beta game. And milking out people' wallet, and people still don't understand it, how fools they are, they just trust in Blizzard.....
I hope not to be the only one that is able to see what Blizzard is doing... Making games with half the features they should have to have people ready to buy the day one the expansion. Great marketing, nonetheless, because poeple still fall for it.
But I hope that when there will be an alternative to starcraft 2( if there will never be), I will be the first to abandon blizzard's ship
Well think of it like this... They have to release two expansions... So just new units will not make the community happy. The community sucks to make happy, since they want this and that. Look at CoD, same game every year with different skins and small additions. People will buy things that has a well known name attached to whatever they sell. I had a feeling they would add all of this in the next expansion. Since new units will not be enough to keep people satisfied to buy HoTS. So, yes it is good marketing, since they are with activision. They are getting told on how consumers work.
You do not understand how the gaming market works. Some companies will do this since recession is still here and games are not selling as well they were in the past. I never said it wont be a new game, but they listened to what we want. Well, I am not a fanboy of blizzard because it is actually Activsion-Blizzard. The game is not getting milked ( Halo and God of War are milked games). The game will be below 60 dorras... did you get the memo? And you are not the first person to abandon "blizzard's ship", a lot of people have.
Something tells me Sergio1992 is one of the few remaining BW elitists left here on TL. There are so many fail points to your post, it makes your opinion invalid.
Saying WoL is simply a beta game, is outrageous and wrong. What do you think 90% of the invested money goes towards? Multiplayer-Nope Patches-Nope
Guess what does!! Singleplayer!! Do you have any idea how much cgi costs? Let alone 30 missions full of 3d rendered motion images, full music soundtrack. Voice acting, etc. It is absolutely worth 60 dollars, and is not just an expansion.
Just because we bitched about things such as -lan -clan support -replay sharing
Doesn't mean we are entitled to it, which is a huge problem in this community. Sense of entitlement. I don't blame blizzard for protecting their IP rights, with no lan. That way there is no ICcup etc. As awesome as ICcup was for us, it was a way to play the game for free and blizz lost out in the end, regardless of what you. In my personal life I can name 3 friends that played BW ICCup, and never paid for the retail version at all, ever. Times that by just the amount of people that frequent this site alone and that's a dickload of lost income.
They don't make this shit for free, and certaintly didn't make sc2 out of the goodness of there hearts for us. They are a FOR PROFIT business, and therefore don't give a shit if they don't make a profit.
Tl;DR Grow up man, you don't get shit for free in the real world, you are spoiled and probably to young to remember the pre internet days where you actually had to pay for everything.
There is one little thing you forget in your memo of capitalism: the customer. Grow up man, people don't just give you money for free in the real world. You are spoiled and probably too young to remember the pre-ZYNGA days where you actually have to satisfy a customer.
Sure Blizzard is a business, no shit Sherlock. Though one would think an optimally run business would look back at things they did great and were loved for and try to preserve it. At makes much sense to actively decide to scrap things that worked in favor of Facebook integration and a complete cripple of the custom game system.
All the infrastructure arguments are pure bullshit. When you create a system from scratch, it's the single biggest opportunity to make things exactly the way you want it to. The fact WoL came a decade later also means you have contemporary technology available. "You can't re-create what was done years ago"- what non-sense. More than ever you can. Better than ever. More efficient than ever. Creating from scratch means to define exactly the capabilities and not to be constrained by old tech. When the net-code of WoL doesn't allow it, means only three things:
1) You never wanted it to be possible 2) It is possible, but you always wanted to release it later in favor of other things 3) It is bad net-code
Of the three possibilities, there is valid room to critic- as a customer. I don't have to care whether and why they didn't want or couldn't do this or that. All I know is that the features existed for decades, contemporary rival companies were always able to produce them, and for whatever reason it was decided to leave them out to release after. For money, because of bad programming- I don't have to care. It first and foremost is their problem.
There is also a little thing called, having the option to NOT buy the product if you think it sucks. No point in buying a game if you're just gonna whine/moan/bitch about it after the fact. You bought the game as is, so why bitch now? Did you walk into w/e u bought WoL pissed off giving them your money?
They could have just meh, fuck it no free patches. They don't have to do shit after the fact, just like how Heinz doesn't have to come refill my ketchup bottle every time it empties.
Your capitalism argument is just plain stupid. You weren't anywhere apart of who I was responding to. So if you're going to try and be cute, be original son. Come up with your own shit instead of copy/paste/change 1 word.
My argument is plain stupid, because supply-demand is no fundamental principle? Or what did I miss, please do enlighten me.
Who said I bought it?
Definition:Capitalism is an economic and social system in which the means of production are privately controlled.
I'm no longer going to argue with someone from Germany. An entirely different country, with different ideals, about a completely different topic than the OP.
And as a member of the most prominent class of economic systems, said relationship is one of their core driving forces. And now what else to nit-pick?
You are free to leave the conversation. I'm here to discuss the announced features, voice my limited excitement as they are merely catching up with industry standards they already set up a long time ago themselves, and purge misconceptions of what is technically do-able or not as they were frequently brought up in this thread.
And no, I didn't take your last sentence in any bad way. I got your drift
Remember when people found out SC2 was region locked and asked why and Blizz tried to claim it was technologically impossible to have global play... despite the fact every other game they'd ever had support region switching... yeah, so they can be quite full of crap when they want to be.
On May 08 2012 18:48 Sapphire.lux wrote: [quote] Now i like to give Blizzard a hard time for a lot of things but that is just wrong. They have worked on WOL for 2 years now, from balance to engine improvements. Verry few companies do that, for free.
You must be confused... every company does patches for free. The only thing that companies charge for are add-ons (DLC's).... I have not see any company that charges for their own patches... If so, do tell.
Anyways, this is fucking awesome! Finally they have told the community what they will do for HoTS and it is what we all wanted. Browder said they could not add LAN due to the engine, so if you want LAN wait 4 years for LoV (it is not going to happen, but i hope lag will deteriorate in the coming years... and i think he said it when Catz was interviewing him last year).
Clan support and Unranked ladder is just damn great!
Can't wait for HoTS! Thank you blizzard for listening to what the community wants!
I'm not actually really sure I will buy Hots anytime soon, because Starcraft 2 is still a beta game,with all these functionalities lacking, the sad thing is that there are blind people that don't understand that even if in beta state it is sold as a complete game. No wonders that blizzard became like that, wanna bet with me hots will be sold for 60€, not just as a mere expansion? And blizzard fanboys will start saying "ehhhh that's a huge new game you are just a pathetic worthless piece of life if you don't see how good blizzard is on delivering us what we wanted". Yes, delivering a new game to complete a beta game. And milking out people' wallet, and people still don't understand it, how fools they are, they just trust in Blizzard.....
I hope not to be the only one that is able to see what Blizzard is doing... Making games with half the features they should have to have people ready to buy the day one the expansion. Great marketing, nonetheless, because poeple still fall for it.
But I hope that when there will be an alternative to starcraft 2( if there will never be), I will be the first to abandon blizzard's ship
Well think of it like this... They have to release two expansions... So just new units will not make the community happy. The community sucks to make happy, since they want this and that. Look at CoD, same game every year with different skins and small additions. People will buy things that has a well known name attached to whatever they sell. I had a feeling they would add all of this in the next expansion. Since new units will not be enough to keep people satisfied to buy HoTS. So, yes it is good marketing, since they are with activision. They are getting told on how consumers work.
You do not understand how the gaming market works. Some companies will do this since recession is still here and games are not selling as well they were in the past. I never said it wont be a new game, but they listened to what we want. Well, I am not a fanboy of blizzard because it is actually Activsion-Blizzard. The game is not getting milked ( Halo and God of War are milked games). The game will be below 60 dorras... did you get the memo? And you are not the first person to abandon "blizzard's ship", a lot of people have.
Something tells me Sergio1992 is one of the few remaining BW elitists left here on TL. There are so many fail points to your post, it makes your opinion invalid.
Saying WoL is simply a beta game, is outrageous and wrong. What do you think 90% of the invested money goes towards? Multiplayer-Nope Patches-Nope
Guess what does!! Singleplayer!! Do you have any idea how much cgi costs? Let alone 30 missions full of 3d rendered motion images, full music soundtrack. Voice acting, etc. It is absolutely worth 60 dollars, and is not just an expansion.
Just because we bitched about things such as -lan -clan support -replay sharing
Doesn't mean we are entitled to it, which is a huge problem in this community. Sense of entitlement. I don't blame blizzard for protecting their IP rights, with no lan. That way there is no ICcup etc. As awesome as ICcup was for us, it was a way to play the game for free and blizz lost out in the end, regardless of what you. In my personal life I can name 3 friends that played BW ICCup, and never paid for the retail version at all, ever. Times that by just the amount of people that frequent this site alone and that's a dickload of lost income.
They don't make this shit for free, and certaintly didn't make sc2 out of the goodness of there hearts for us. They are a FOR PROFIT business, and therefore don't give a shit if they don't make a profit.
Tl;DR Grow up man, you don't get shit for free in the real world, you are spoiled and probably to young to remember the pre internet days where you actually had to pay for everything.
There is one little thing you forget in your memo of capitalism: the customer. Grow up man, people don't just give you money for free in the real world. You are spoiled and probably too young to remember the pre-ZYNGA days where you actually have to satisfy a customer.
Sure Blizzard is a business, no shit Sherlock. Though one would think an optimally run business would look back at things they did great and were loved for and try to preserve it. At makes much sense to actively decide to scrap things that worked in favor of Facebook integration and a complete cripple of the custom game system.
All the infrastructure arguments are pure bullshit. When you create a system from scratch, it's the single biggest opportunity to make things exactly the way you want it to. The fact WoL came a decade later also means you have contemporary technology available. "You can't re-create what was done years ago"- what non-sense. More than ever you can. Better than ever. More efficient than ever. Creating from scratch means to define exactly the capabilities and not to be constrained by old tech. When the net-code of WoL doesn't allow it, means only three things:
1) You never wanted it to be possible 2) It is possible, but you always wanted to release it later in favor of other things 3) It is bad net-code
Of the three possibilities, there is valid room to critic- as a customer. I don't have to care whether and why they didn't want or couldn't do this or that. All I know is that the features existed for decades, contemporary rival companies were always able to produce them, and for whatever reason it was decided to leave them out to release after. For money, because of bad programming- I don't have to care. It first and foremost is their problem.
There is also a little thing called, having the option to NOT buy the product if you think it sucks. No point in buying a game if you're just gonna whine/moan/bitch about it after the fact. You bought the game as is, so why bitch now? Did you walk into w/e u bought WoL pissed off giving them your money?
They could have just meh, fuck it no free patches. They don't have to do shit after the fact, just like how Heinz doesn't have to come refill my ketchup bottle every time it empties.
Your capitalism argument is just plain stupid. You weren't anywhere apart of who I was responding to. So if you're going to try and be cute, be original son. Come up with your own shit instead of copy/paste/change 1 word.
My argument is plain stupid, because supply-demand is no fundamental principle? Or what did I miss, please do enlighten me.
Who said I bought it?
Definition:Capitalism is an economic and social system in which the means of production are privately controlled.
I'm no longer going to argue with someone from Germany. An entirely different country, with different ideals, about a completely different topic than the OP.
Where I'm from, that's called blunt racism, but hey, I'm from Europe.
It's not racism, it's nationalism. There is no german race as far as I know. He's denigrating you because of your german nationality.
On May 09 2012 09:30 Zealot Lord wrote: Hmm, I'm really quite surprised so many people think Blizzard intentionally omitted all these features as a ploy to get them to buy HOTS - that's just not good business sense. Think about it, getting their fanbase displeased and having to convince/draw them back from other games (e.g. LoL) is considerably more work than maintaining already satisfied customers happy.
Imagine if WoL was more polished and came out with all these features from the start - everyone would enjoy the game more, their opinion of Blizzard would be considerably better, when you have a reputation for making high quality products, don't you think more people would automatically purchase the expansion without any hesitation? Adding more good stuff to an excellent product is always better than adding great stuff to an average product.
So as for why these features didn't come out with WoL - its probably one of two things imo. First is perhaps something to do with meeting the release date deadline at that time. But the more likely reason I believe is that they just did not realize how important these features were to the game. Its pretty much a fact that a lot of times developers don't know what exactly made the predecessor successful, otherwise you would not have had so many sequels of games that fall completely flat due to a changed formula. I'm pretty sure Blizzard realizes something isn't quite right with SC2 at the moment - thus it makes sense and is natural for them to listen what the community wants, which is essentially every feature listed here along with some of the things mentioned in patch 1.5. Its not perfect yet, but at least its getting there~
Blizzard knew it was important to the community, but their business model has profit as primary objective and if they can't quantify added profit by adding these features they will keep them on low priority until the expansion release... which is exactly what is happening, and what I predicted would happen when we weren't seeing these features in WoL.
Even if they release the changes as a patch instead of with the new expansion, it will still serve to enhance the buzz created by HotS and get people back to playing the game.
On May 09 2012 09:34 biology]major wrote: Blizzard takes 2-3 years to implement things that could be done in a single day by one person. Meanwhile, riot creates a spectator mode with automated observing and features pro games in main lobby. Nothing to do with league or starcraft, but blizzard doesnt even have half the drive of riot in supporting their respective games.
In the end its all about taking your money by promising you these "new features" after making WoL as bland as possible.
omg omg!! thanks blizzard for these amazing features!!!!
Go play LoL. It only took Riot 3 years to implement replays.
Riot took over 2 years to get team support. They took over a year to release ranked games. They have constant, game-breaking bugs to this day
Seriously, if you think the game is bland, get the hell out of the SC2 discussion board.
Single day, one person. You know nothing about development.
On May 09 2012 09:34 biology]major wrote: Blizzard takes 2-3 years to implement things that could be done in a single day by one person. Meanwhile, riot creates a spectator mode with automated observing and features pro games in main lobby. Nothing to do with league or starcraft, but blizzard doesnt even have half the drive of riot in supporting their respective games.
In the end its all about taking your money by promising you these "new features" after making WoL as bland as possible.
omg omg!! thanks blizzard for these amazing features!!!!
edit: no way im giving blizzard another cent
You should apply to Blizzard. I'm sure they'd love a superstar programmer like yourself who can implement features like this in a day.
Look forward to seeing you continue to post even after HoTS comes out.
On May 09 2012 09:30 Zealot Lord wrote: Hmm, I'm really quite surprised so many people think Blizzard intentionally omitted all these features as a ploy to get them to buy HOTS - that's just not good business sense. Think about it, getting their fanbase displeased and having to convince/draw them back from other games (e.g. LoL) is considerably more work than maintaining already satisfied customers happy.
Imagine if WoL was more polished and came out with all these features from the start - everyone would enjoy the game more, their opinion of Blizzard would be considerably better, when you have a reputation for making high quality products, don't you think more people would automatically purchase the expansion without any hesitation? Adding more good stuff to an excellent product is always better than adding great stuff to an average product.
So as for why these features didn't come out with WoL - its probably one of two things imo. First is perhaps something to do with meeting the release date deadline at that time. But the more likely reason I believe is that they just did not realize how important these features were to the game. Its pretty much a fact that a lot of times developers don't know what exactly made the predecessor successful, otherwise you would not have had so many sequels of games that fall completely flat due to a changed formula. I'm pretty sure Blizzard realizes something isn't quite right with SC2 at the moment - thus it makes sense and is natural for them to listen what the community wants, which is essentially every feature listed here along with some of the things mentioned in patch 1.5. Its not perfect yet, but at least its getting there~
Blizzard knew it was important to the community, but their business model has profit as primary objective and if they can't quantify added profit by adding these features they will keep them on low priority until the expansion release... which is exactly what is happening, and what I predicted would happen when we weren't seeing these features in WoL.
Even if they release the changes as a patch instead of with the new expansion, it will still serve to enhance the buzz created by HotS and get people back to playing the game.
Wouldn't be much of a business model if profit wasn't the primary objective.
On May 09 2012 09:34 biology]major wrote: Blizzard takes 2-3 years to implement things that could be done in a single day by one person. Meanwhile, riot creates a spectator mode with automated observing and features pro games in main lobby. Nothing to do with league or starcraft, but blizzard doesnt even have half the drive of riot in supporting their respective games.
In the end its all about taking your money by promising you these "new features" after making WoL as bland as possible.
omg omg!! thanks blizzard for these amazing features!!!!
edit: no way im giving blizzard another cent
You should apply to Blizzard. I'm sure they'd love a superstar programmer like yourself who can implement features like this in a day.
Look forward to seeing you continue to post even after HoTS comes out.
? Going to be a part of teamliquid regardless of sc
everytime I see someone rightfully say they will not buy hots for VALID reasons, someone comes and says "you are gonna buy it anyway". lol this is how much control blizzard has achieved over its consumers, to the point where they can release shit, make up lies and you will buy it anways.
On May 09 2012 09:34 biology]major wrote: Blizzard takes 2-3 years to implement things that could be done in a single day by one person. Meanwhile, riot creates a spectator mode with automated observing and features pro games in main lobby. Nothing to do with league or starcraft, but blizzard doesnt even have half the drive of riot in supporting their respective games.
In the end its all about taking your money by promising you these "new features" after making WoL as bland as possible.
omg omg!! thanks blizzard for these amazing features!!!!
edit: no way im giving blizzard another cent
At the same time you could just say Riot saw how awesome Dota 2's spectator mode is and decided to make one too.
On May 09 2012 09:30 Zealot Lord wrote: Hmm, I'm really quite surprised so many people think Blizzard intentionally omitted all these features as a ploy to get them to buy HOTS - that's just not good business sense. Think about it, getting their fanbase displeased and having to convince/draw them back from other games (e.g. LoL) is considerably more work than maintaining already satisfied customers happy.
Imagine if WoL was more polished and came out with all these features from the start - everyone would enjoy the game more, their opinion of Blizzard would be considerably better, when you have a reputation for making high quality products, don't you think more people would automatically purchase the expansion without any hesitation? Adding more good stuff to an excellent product is always better than adding great stuff to an average product.
So as for why these features didn't come out with WoL - its probably one of two things imo. First is perhaps something to do with meeting the release date deadline at that time. But the more likely reason I believe is that they just did not realize how important these features were to the game. Its pretty much a fact that a lot of times developers don't know what exactly made the predecessor successful, otherwise you would not have had so many sequels of games that fall completely flat due to a changed formula. I'm pretty sure Blizzard realizes something isn't quite right with SC2 at the moment - thus it makes sense and is natural for them to listen what the community wants, which is essentially every feature listed here along with some of the things mentioned in patch 1.5. Its not perfect yet, but at least its getting there~
Blizzard knew it was important to the community, but their business model has profit as primary objective and if they can't quantify added profit by adding these features they will keep them on low priority until the expansion release... which is exactly what is happening, and what I predicted would happen when we weren't seeing these features in WoL.
Even if they release the changes as a patch instead of with the new expansion, it will still serve to enhance the buzz created by HotS and get people back to playing the game.
Wouldn't be much of a business model if profit wasn't the primary objective.
Not all companies have to run businesses do they? You don't have to be a business to stay afloat financially, do you?
On May 09 2012 09:34 biology]major wrote: Blizzard takes 2-3 years to implement things that could be done in a single day by one person. Meanwhile, riot creates a spectator mode with automated observing and features pro games in main lobby. Nothing to do with league or starcraft, but blizzard doesnt even have half the drive of riot in supporting their respective games.
In the end its all about taking your money by promising you these "new features" after making WoL as bland as possible.
omg omg!! thanks blizzard for these amazing features!!!!
edit: no way im giving blizzard another cent
Um...that do not claim that Riot put features in that people demanded quickly. People were demanding replays in the LoL beta. I know, I was there. Nearly 2 years later, we still did not have them. In many ways, Riot makes Blizzard look super speedy.
EPT
. Hoping for more community support with non-clans/guilds.
