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What the hell is Blizzard doing, the more and more I read the more I think Blizz just don't know wtf they are doing and just completely fluked into the awesomeness that was SC:BW.
Terran They just seem to fail to acknowledge that Terran is suffering in the late game and vZ/vP is just a ticking time bomb until you auto lose.
Spider mine like anti air? WTF!? How is this supposed to help vs the incredibly strong infestor/brood combo and tech switches or toss's late game strength and rapid reinforcement capabilities YA KNOW THE THINGS TERRAN ARE STRUGGLING VS? they mention this as a way of defending against harassment but marines and turrets do a pretty damn good job atm this just seems redundant and useless to me.
"an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic" Lol, I really hope this is a joke, kinda sounds like a nuke with more range, but implementing this would surely make bio play more dominant and weaken tank use for zoning parts of the map.
Protoss Nexus recall? seriously? So not only do toss have an incredibly strong defensive mechanic in forcefields, they can now be aggressive AND safe too. If they fuck up, get out-positioned, flanked, counter attacked, just recall np ...
Long ranged aerial siege weapon ... sounds alot like a carrier, why not just fix the fucking carrier.
Zerg changes aren't even worth mentioning...
I really don't see myself buying HOTS, hopefully Blizz will get their shit together for the final expansion. At least I'll have Diablo 3, just hope they don't find a way to fuck that up too
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My thoughts from a Masters Protoss perspective on how I think this will affect the Protoss matchups.
Protoss:
Replicant cut - Great!
Tempest now a siege unit - I was opposed to the Tempest before and I am now. Protoss does not need more units that fit into the death ball. Phoenix upgrade deals with mass muta, now.
Mothership still cut - This is ok, as long as we get something to deal with high amounts of Brood Lords, because right now, Brood Lord/Infestor with whatever (Spines, Roaches, Lings) is almost unbeatable head on without Vortex.
Oracle still in - Awesome! Absolutely love everything about that unit.
Mass Recall - Hate it. Rather want something more that gives P a defenders advantage in PvP, along with the cannon.
Terran
Shredder cut - I liked the idea of the unit, but it would be so hard to balance, and would be another deadly weapon in the already big Terran arsenal.
Warhound cut - Would like to see how that unit played out, but ok. I'm still hoping mech will be viable in TvP along with Bio.
Odin(Unique Thor) cut - Fantastic news! Way too gimmicky.
Anti-Air Spidermine - Doesn't seem very relevant to TvP, so won't comment on it.
Long Range Missile Turret - Sounds scary, I sure hope it's a late tech expensive static defense, and not a mobile unit. Don't let it be something that makes 1-1-1 better, dear God..
Zerg:
Swarm Host - I think this unit is too much like Infestors with Infested Terrans. I feel like Zerg already has enough spawnable units, although I wouldn't mind a Lair tech siege unit that somehow doesn't make the 12-minute Roach max pressure way too strong.
Viper - I really liked the idea of Occular Parasite (which was mistakenly thought of as one cast only because of a badly formulated tooltip), but we'll see what they can do with the Overseer. I find abduct absolutely stupid and hope it'll be cut, as grabbing a single Colo can often end the game. Mineral->Energy skill sounds interesting. AoE Blind seems awesome, Blink will be necessary vs this.
Overseer back - Alright I guess.. We'll see what Blizz can do to make it more interesting.
Nydus Network - These changes sounds awesome! Here's for hoping they can be used for something other than cheese!
Edit: I also agree with everyone that says they want Colossus cut. I'd like a less a-move unit, and more units that can control zones.
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Is that missile launcher a building or a unit?
In any case, introducing something with an even higher range than tanks seems like bad idea.
Pretty hard to prevent them from shooting a base from the outside.
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The mineral-eating ability for the Viper is exactly what it needed, wow. Blizz once again takes ideas right from my personal google docs account  . I was just thinking of consume but this has the added depth of being used as a harassment ability as well!
For those who dislike the ability, consider the fact that so far the Viper is the only pure support caster in the game, with absolutely no way to do damage on its own. High Templar have Storm and Feedback, both damage dealing abilities, AND can morph to Archons. Ghosts have a regular attack, Snipe, and EMP does pseudo-damage vs Protoss. Ravens can spawn Auto-Turrets and have Seeker Missile. Infestors have Fungal Growth and are able to spawn infested terrans. All other energy units have a regular attack and sometimes a damage-dealing energy ability as well (Yamato, 250mm Strike Cannons).
If Vipers are going to cost 200 gas apiece and have zero ways to deal damage on their own, they better damn well have an ability to load up on energy between engagements.
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I really hope they dont make red alert 2 rocket launchers :\
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Hmm I actually feel like this is moving in definately the right direction. Looking forward to more solid information though, but the Nydus options sound like they could be a lot of fun.
I do hope the Overseer is re-cut though, easily one of my least favourite units in the game.
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On April 12 2012 02:02 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:01 Lexpar wrote:
I sort of hate a lot of this. Like that Viper thing. I wish that they would just stop beating around the bush and give it dark swarm. "It's not BW blah blah blah" but heres a unit that looks the same and plays the same and can cast the same spell except its a tiny bit different and much worse.
Or air spider mines? Hellions? Scrap both, give terrans vultures with real spider mines. I mean, they go to such lengths to not be BW, but all they're really doing is changing one tiny factor of a BW spell or unit, for the worse.
The lunkers that shoot out tiny bitches? Fuck those. Lurkers are an incredibly interesting and skill demanding unit- so lets make them the exact same except lame as fuck and useless.
These are goliaths that are just goliaths but not as cool and also they do extra damage to mech.
What if the arbiter was the nexus? But also put arbiters in the expansion. Except make them suck.
I'm bummed out.
Sry but I don't want BW again.
Hey man, I'm not one of those hippy drippy stuck in the past "grateful dead and broodwar and peace and love dude" guys. I like a lot of stuff about SC2. I love the banling/marine mechanic. I love stalkers. I like the macro mechanics. Broodlords are a great retooling of guardians. MBS turned out to be really cool.
What I hate is that again and again Blizzard pitches units that are not new, or cool, or fun. They're just broodwar units. Like the swarm host. Like the warhhound. Like the battle hellion. Like the viper. And the Oracle. They change tiny things about these units so that "its not BW motherfuckers", but ultimately they just take out what makes a unit cool and interesting in that game so that its different in this game. And its not cool or interesting.
Like Plague. That was an awesome spell. Brings a shit-load of organic units to one health. Amazing. forces your opponent to retreat, rethink, heal, reposition. What if instead of that, it did a little damage, but it caught the units in a web. Like that way, if you get hit once by it the units are dead no matter what. So that the terran has no chance to reorganize and re prioritize their plans, it just removes those units from the game. That sounds way more interesting.
That last line was sarcasm by the way. It sounds stupid. Its also called fungal growth.
What if instead of the zerg having this totally unique thing where they had super slow detectors form the start, but forced them to spread out their bases so that they were still vulnerable to invisible units- what if instead of that we just give them detectors like the other races. Cool?
No.
Stupid.
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Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
Glad they took out shredder, it was just very confusing. The attack animation basically covered up everything and you had zero idea what was going on. Hope they focus on units that are very clear in terms of their attack animation. Stalkers = good, Collosus, Shredder etc = bad.
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On April 12 2012 02:12 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:08 blade55555 wrote:On April 12 2012 02:06 kinglemon wrote:On April 12 2012 01:46 rift wrote:On April 12 2012 01:34 shockaslim wrote:On April 12 2012 01:25 rift wrote:
I don't want "cool" stuff, I want a well-designed esport.
I also never want to see a colossus again. I don't think this is the attitude to have. Blizzard doesn't make games as an esport......they make them for a wider range of people than just you. Why should I care about casuals? They can still make a good game for everyone with an esports focus, they aren't mutually exclusive. This is TL, not the Bnet forums. coolnes is the most important thing in game design. as gay as it may sound, it's true. still afraid of the recall for toss. this sounds too much like toss doesn't has to risk something when moving out I agree, I really really really hope this mass recall does not make it through. It just sounds absolutely dumb as a toss could just move out and then recall back. I just see it being dumb and if blizzard does this will be bad for the game imo. I think I can fix both the archon toilet and this nexus recall problem easily Arbiters(sssssssssssssssss)
too easy, better theorycraft some out of the world units that will end up just like colossus, incredibly efficient yet boring as f..
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On April 12 2012 02:09 Noocta wrote:
Air spider mine sound like the most retarded thing ever oO
Why would Zerg ever go muta with that somewhere you can't see them?
Blizzard probably wants to buff pure mech armies so that they can deal with mutalisks easier. As for bio/bio-mech play it definitely seems like an overkill.
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On April 12 2012 02:00 Ucs wrote:
"The warhound still feels a little too much like a small thor, which is just not new enough to give terran players new strategies.
If we keep the Thor, we are currently experimenting with an anti-air spider mine that would give the terrans a way to get some factory-built anti-air into small places that a Thor has trouble reaching (like near your minerals). Whether this is meaningful, considering terrans have marines, is still in question???????? We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic."
If terran dosen't get a decent warhound and if Blizzard dosen't make mech more viable vs P/Z im finally gonna be able to drop sc2 without regret. Anti-air spider mine? Really? Long ranged terran missle launcher? Awfull thor still in game?
From what I read here it dosen't really look like a expansion...it looks more like a terran nerf.
Yeah you can really tell how strong terran is going to be reading patch notes that will almost certainly change for a game not even in beta...
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The sooner the release beta the sooner we will all get a real perspective on how HotS is going to turn out. But from this preview I feel like Blizzard continues to push SC2 into the direction of Red Alert 3 ...
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On April 12 2012 01:27 Tsenister wrote:
"We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic."
Makes me believe they don't really have players on the development team. I mean they already have ghosts for nukes to make people move siege lines. It would also be a bit weird if the turret was indirect fire and make the game feel less "starcrafty". It would probably be built defensively against tank pushes making the game even more gridlocked.
I don't think they understand that the siege tank is supposed to be fucking scary and hard to deal with. Marauders are already great against them and nukes have the power to move siege lines. That's more than enough.
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InControl single-handedly removed the Shredder, and thank you for it! I hope the news changes are great and good luck Blizzard!
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On April 12 2012 02:12 BigBossX wrote:
What the hell is Blizzard doing, the more and more I read the more I think Blizz just don't know wtf they are doing and just completely fluked into the awesomeness that was SC:BW.
Terran They just seem to fail to acknowledge that Terran is suffering in the late game and vZ/vP is just a ticking time bomb until you auto lose.
Spider mine like anti air? WTF!? How is this supposed to help vs the incredibly strong infestor/brood combo and tech switches or toss's late game strength and rapid reinforcement capabilities YA KNOW THE THINGS TERRAN ARE STRUGGLING VS? they mention this as a way of defending against harassment but marines and turrets do a pretty damn good job atm this just seems redundant and useless to me.
"an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic" Lol, I really hope this is a joke, kinda sounds like a nuke with more range, but implementing this would surely make bio play more dominant and weaken tank use for zoning parts of the map.
Protoss Nexus recall? seriously? So not only do toss have an incredibly strong defensive mechanic in forcefields, they can now be aggressive AND safe too. If they fuck up, get out-positioned, flanked, counter attacked, just recall np ...
Long ranged aerial siege weapon ... sounds alot like a carrier, why not just fix the fucking carrier.
Zerg changes aren't even worth mentioning...
I really don't see myself buying HOTS, hopefully Blizz will get their shit together for the final expansion. At least I'll have Diablo 3, just hope they don't find a way to fuck that up too
People like you are why Blizzard usually can't bother to be transparent about their development process. Instead of offering reasonable criticism you just give a long list of "whaaa, terran so weak and zerg and protoss so strong".
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OMG this is amazing :D:D:D:D
I fully support all of these changes, and I am especially excited to hear about the Viper's "Dark Swarm" :D
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yay! no replicant, that unit was clearly lazy design
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glad theyre making these changes, im happy about the protoss and terran explanations but I'd like more explanation about the viper. I also wish they would try to make the carrier work =\
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I like all the changes! I do have a couple of comments though.
Thor or warhound:
I’m not sure which one is the right call, but I do think that we need a mech unit. If we stay with the Warhound, then I’m completely ok with it, but I think the skin needs to be redone. I personally love the way the Thor looks. If they took the size of the warhound and put the skin of the Thor on it, I would be all for it.
If they stay with the Thor, I’m ok with that as well, but they have to make it smaller and revamp the way the 250MM Cannons work. Right now, the cannons are worthless and the Thor is too bulky to use. Even if you try to compensate with anti-air spider mines.
Personally, I think the way to go is to mesh both the Thor and the warhound together. I do NOT think we should go back to the Goliath. Goliath is a great unit, a fantastic unit, but I personally think it shouldn’t carry over to SC2, but we do need something to fit that role. Especially for TvP.
By the way, the anti-air spider mine sounds sick!
Shredder:
I can agree with this, but it would be nice if we could have something that’s cheap to defend our bases. Meaning 0 supply. Zerg has spine crawlers, Protoss has cannons and we have to use tanks or watch our mini-map like a hawk. Maybe an upgraded turret? Maybe the shredder ability on the turret? Maybe the shredder is stationary and it’s cyclic meaning the field goes on and off. I’m not sure what the answer is, but I feel like we need something that doesn’t cost supply to help defend our bases.
Replicator out – I think this was a good move.
Tempest change – I think this is brilliant! This might actually give you some pretty interesting battles. Especially, if you go with a long ranged missile attack on the Thor. That could be interesting.
Mass Recall was already there at Blizzcon, and I think it’s great, but it could be too strong. It’s hard to tell what players will come up with.
Zerg has pretty much stayed the same and in general I think zerg’s new units are amazing. I love the viper, I love the swarm host and I love the ultralisk charge ability. I hope and pray none of this will change.
I’m not sure how I feel about the nydus work ability. It sort of sounds interesting, but kind of goofy at the same time. I think I would have to see it in action.
All in all though, I think these are some great changes.
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On April 12 2012 02:12 BigBossX wrote:
What the hell is Blizzard doing, the more and more I read the more I think Blizz just don't know wtf they are doing and just completely fluked into the awesomeness that was SC:BW.
Terran They just seem to fail to acknowledge that Terran is suffering in the late game and vZ/vP is just a ticking time bomb until you auto lose.
Spider mine like anti air? WTF!? How is this supposed to help vs the incredibly strong infestor/brood combo and tech switches or toss's late game strength and rapid reinforcement capabilities YA KNOW THE THINGS TERRAN ARE STRUGGLING VS? they mention this as a way of defending against harassment but marines and turrets do a pretty damn good job atm this just seems redundant and useless to me.
"an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic" Lol, I really hope this is a joke, kinda sounds like a nuke with more range, but implementing this would surely make bio play more dominant and weaken tank use for zoning parts of the map.
Protoss Nexus recall? seriously? So not only do toss have an incredibly strong defensive mechanic in forcefields, they can now be aggressive AND safe too. If they fuck up, get out-positioned, flanked, counter attacked, just recall np ...
Long ranged aerial siege weapon ... sounds alot like a carrier, why not just fix the fucking carrier.
Zerg changes aren't even worth mentioning...
I really don't see myself buying HOTS, hopefully Blizz will get their shit together for the final expansion. At least I'll have Diablo 3, just hope they don't find a way to fuck that up too
Protoss were struggling VS mutas a while ago. The phoenix change did nothing but somehow nobody makes mutas anymore. Blizz made the tempest to combat the muta problem, but now there is no problem.
Any terran imbalance right now is going to be completely irrelevant with the addition of even one new unit. They are not adding one unit. They are making massive changes to every race.
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