EPTDevelopers Update : Heart of the Swarm - Page 62
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marcelluspye
United States155 Posts
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MuteZephyr
Lithuania448 Posts
Not to mention the fact that recall was on a fragile expensive late game unit in BW. Putting it on the nexus means you will always have the ability to recall and the opponent needs to kill all your bases to stop you from doing it. Adding even longer artillery for Terran sounds downright stupid. TvT has it's own style, stop trying to make it something it doesn't want to be. Blizz needs to worry about balance, not about shaping the game to unfold a certain way. It'll never happen exactly the way you want since people will exploit the shit out of everything. Also, more zerg artillery is WTF worthy. Broodlord is bad enough, zerg will soon completely cease being zerg altogether. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:00 marcelluspye wrote: The "extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher" sounds like a horrible idea. Instead of making siege tank lines, players will make lines of whatever this thing is. I was thinking that maybe they're incredibly slow shooting and without splash damage? Just a siege breaker basically. It doesn't need a lot of damage either, and should only be effective against mechanical units. Something like that might work. | ||
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Fluffboll
Sweden516 Posts
On April 13 2012 04:42 Euronyme wrote: What? If you played the single player, you'd know that the protoss home planet has been destroyed and that they all live on ships. Protoss should be only air if anything. What's weird are the colossi and all that shit. Remove the collsi, make the tempest into an air collosi, keep and buff the carrier. Boom! Lore solved. They don't live on ships... they live on Shakuras | ||
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Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:07 MuteZephyr wrote: I'm concerned about the Nexus recall ability. Protoss warp-in already nullifies the opponent's defender's advantage, it seems unreasonable to also give them 24/7 perfect defenders advantage by allowing their entire army to essentially always be at home. Not to mention the fact that recall was on a fragile expensive late game unit in BW. Putting it on the nexus means you will always have the ability to recall and the opponent needs to kill all your bases to stop you from doing it. Adding even longer artillery for Terran sounds downright stupid. TvT has it's own style, stop trying to make it something it doesn't want to be. Blizz needs to worry about balance, not about shaping the game to unfold a certain way. It'll never happen exactly the way you want since people will exploit the shit out of everything. Also, more zerg artillery is WTF worthy. Broodlord is bad enough, zerg will soon completely cease being zerg altogether. Their units are just supposed to be weaker in a straight up fight. This is a balane issue, not a design issue. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
On April 13 2012 04:18 nerak wrote: The Starcraft dev team surely loves nydys worms... I remember that in 2010 when people said Zerg were UP, they said there were possibilities, and they always mentioned that Worms weren't being as used as they could be. Also the Worm was the the first zerg unit to be revealed, along with the zergling and the baneling. The funny thing is that it seems that Dustin Browder love units that aren't a-move based. He even tried weird concepts like replicant and shredder. And he is invested in the swarm host, oracle and viper. It is ironic that with a designer that loves so much elements that doesn't involve direct attack, SC2 has such a problem with deathballs. I blame the pathing... I know Browder already said it is too late to fix it (he didn't use such depressing words, but he said it at Blizzcon anyway), but the pathing is the real villain here and it is a pity that no one noticed this at alpha or early beta. FRB people! Here's your chance, this guy named Dustin Browder. He dislikes deathballs too. He can be your ally. But remember, maybe small skirmishes instead of deathballs isn't enough for him; he wants to see more use of those magic tricks he created. Keep that in mind when designing your maps! Your kinda wrong. Browder only kinda understood what made well designed units sc2 was released. He had no idea what he was during during the development of sc2. All he wanted was "cool" units (hi collosus !) | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:11 Fluffboll wrote: They don't live on ships... they live on Shakuras That's bullshit. They live in ships. They have a fleet of carriers and whatnot walking around in space incinerating infested planets. That's what they do. | ||
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nerak
Brazil256 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:14 Hider wrote: Your kinda wrong. Browder only kinda understood what made well designed units sc2 was released. He had no idea what he was during during the development of sc2. All he wanted was "cool" units (hi collosus !) You're right. Terrible terrible damage and stuff. But he always liked Nydus Worms; and now he obviously would like to see less deathballs. So he is an ally, which makes me kinda right. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:18 Euronyme wrote: That's bullshit. They live in ships. They have a fleet of carriers and whatnot walking around in space incinerating infested planets. That's what they do. Errrhh... They live on Shakuras mostly. And most of their Carrier Fleet was lost during the Battle for Aiur anyway. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:34 Noocta wrote: Errrhh... They live on Shakuras mostly. And most of their Carrier Fleet was lost during the Battle for Aiur anyway. What's shakuras? Did you ever go there during the campaign? You met the protoss girl trying to kill the infected colonists a couple of times iirc. She was great. Protoss still live in ships in SC2. | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:16 IMoperator wrote: why does zerg need another siege unit when they have broodlords? seems redundant It's because Broodlords are Tier 3. Right now if the Zerg player gets ahead in the mid game (say by defending well against a hasty attack), he lacks a "safe" way to push the advantage and end the game quickly. The Swarm Hosts aren't intended to replace Broodlords, they're just a faster-to-tech-to, weaker alternative in the mid-game. | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:39 Euronyme wrote: What's shakuras? Did you ever go there during the campaign? You met the protoss girl trying to kill the infected colonists a couple of times iirc. She was great. Protoss still live in ships in SC2. Shakuras is the dark planet you get to a clear of infestation in BW. It's also where the Dark Templar have been hiding since their exile from Aiur. In SC2 it isn't touched on, but shakuras is the new protoss base of operations as far as I know. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:09 Euronyme wrote: I was thinking that maybe they're incredibly slow shooting and without splash damage? Just a siege breaker basically. It doesn't need a lot of damage either, and should only be effective against mechanical units. Something like that might work. Probably not. New strategies won't immediately spring up from this new unit. Instead it will be incorporated into existing strategies, and TvT always includes siege tanks at some point in the mid-game. So look forward to terrans adding this new unit after they established their tank count (which will result in even slower games) or going to them early to counter tank play (which will probably eat up a lot of gas and delay their tech). | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:45 archon256 wrote: It's because Broodlords are Tier 3. Right now if the Zerg player gets ahead in the mid game (say by defending well against a hasty attack), he lacks a "safe" way to push the advantage and end the game quickly. The Swarm Hosts aren't intended to replace Broodlords, they're just a faster-to-tech-to, weaker alternative in the mid-game. I really hope they give them a hive tech upgrade so they don't lose their viablity to BLs late game, both can serve their own purpose. A few easy hive level upgs that can be given them: Lowered spawn cooldown Increased minion move speed spawn 1 melee 1 ranged minion instead of 2 melee increased minion timed life | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:39 Euronyme wrote: What's shakuras? Did you ever go there during the campaign? You met the protoss girl trying to kill the infected colonists a couple of times iirc. She was great. Protoss still live in ships in SC2. Shakuras is the planet where Dark Templar have been hiding since they cut contact with the Conclave. ( protoss templars and executors ) Raynor, Zertatul and Artanis help the last protoss flee the ruins of Aiur with the use of a portal to shakuras just before getting overun by the Zerg. Their fleet is largely inferior to what it used to be too. Selenis might have some Carriers, but that's all for the big guns. Go play Broodwar singleplayer again, you'll see. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:48 Shiladie wrote: I really hope they give them a hive tech upgrade so they don't lose their viablity to BLs late game, both can serve their own purpose. A few easy hive level upgs that can be given them: Lowered spawn cooldown Increased minion move speed spawn 1 melee 1 ranged minion instead of 2 melee increased minion timed life I don't think this is needed, if the swarm host is well designed. In a "scrappy" lategame, having a burrowed unit that can deploy stuff from out of sigthrange has like infinite potential. Just the amount of multitasking it forces from an opponent to defend against 2-3 small groups of swarm hosts, while not losing track of your army... kind of like with Terran when you rally drops in the lategame and don't control them, but their opponents have to find them, be aware of them and kill them. I think that the idea behind the swarm host is completly different than the broodlord. The broodlord is meant to bruteforce it's way through opponent ground, a swarm host is meant to put pressure on your opponent and if he is not prepared, has the potential to break defenses. But it won't just magically make Zerg dominate midgames with aggressive builds, like Broodlords can do vs underprepared opponents in the lategame. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:53 Noocta wrote: Shakuras is the planet where Dark Templar have been hiding since they cut contact with the Conclave. ( protoss templars and executors ) Raynor, Zertatul and Artanis help the last protoss flee the ruins of Aiur with the use of a portal to shakuras just before getting overun by the Zerg. Their fleet is largely inferior to what it used to be too. Selenis might have some Carriers, but that's all for the big guns. Go play Broodwar singleplayer again, you'll see. oh gosh I don't remember anything from BW campaign lmao. Played that like 10 years ago lmao. Well this might be the time to pick it up again ^^ I was thinking of the conclave though. The dark templars have always been the strange outcast hobos, but the other guys had the carrier as the staple unit right? Look, what I'm trying to say here with my vastly inferior knowledge, is that the carrier is one of the protoss staple units. It's one of the first things that comes to mind when you say protoss. Carriers man. They're not a ground only race where air looks weird. They like space travel and stuff. It might be worth mentioning that when I played SC:BW I didn't actually speak English in any way shape or form, so my BW lore is a bit rusty to say the least ^^ | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
Replicant removed - okay, but no unit to replace this? Tempest as air siege unit - why did you remove the carrier just to replace it with another unit that does the exact same thing? Mothership is still gone, giving Protoss no options late game vs. infestor + broodlord + viper armies. Oracle has no combat utility in army vs. army battles. Void ray still lacks purpose aside from gimmicky void ray rush builds. Protoss air still has no answer to corrupters and vikings. This is a disaster  | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On April 13 2012 06:05 Euronyme wrote: oh gosh I don't remember anything from BW campaign lmao. Played that like 10 years ago lmao. Well this might be the time to pick it up again ^^ I was thinking of the conclave though. The dark templars have always been the strange outcast hobos, but the other guys had the carrier as the staple unit right? Look, what I'm trying to say here with my vastly inferior knowledge, is that the carrier is one of the protoss staple units. It's one of the first things that comes to mind when you say protoss. Carriers man. They're not a ground only race where air looks weird. They like space travel and stuff. It might be worth mentioning that when I played SC:BW I didn't actually speak English in any way shape or form, so my BW lore is a bit rusty to say the least ^^ Yeah, don't worry. I'm not trying to be rude. The thing is, the huge protoss flett was something really close to the Conclave. If you remember correctly, during the Alpha of SC2, the Carrier wasn't here. It was the Tempest ( the first one, not the HOTS one ) a carrier-like type of ship with strong AtG shield who use some kind of melee interceptors. The thing had dark templar colors ( like the stalker or the Voidray ) With dragon being dark, reaver schematics being loss, voidray and tempest as the main fleet, it was a way to show that the old carrier arbitor scout fleet was decimated. Protoss was forced to use more hit & run type of technology, dark templar technology. The protoss the way you see them have been defeated, they are refugies on the Dark Templar world but they try to rebuild from that. When you take a look, the only thing in the protoss army who come from the old Aiur is the Colossus ( they were disabled and hided in the corner of the galaxy ) and the Immortals, who are the last reminaing dragoons but upgraded. There's the zealots and high templars of course, but that's the protoss themselves. | ||
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