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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On April 13 2012 00:55 Shiladie wrote: and in TvZ stacking 3 of them on a choke made it invulnerable to all attack pre-broodlord (because hydras are still useless as well) Neural Parasite would be hilarious though if enemy shredders damaged each other. | ||
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CyDe
United States1010 Posts
With this change, the army of the Protoss would be only more elusive. Now if they attack into an army or choke or whatever, where they should take massive damage, they can just Recall back to their base. Similarly to how blink stalkers work, which is already incredibly frustrating to play against: + Show Spoiler + It is as though you are masturbating, right (bare with me here)? And then just as you about to come someone jumps out from under your desk and pulls your dick off. That is what playing against someone who microes their blink stalkers is like. I am not saying blink is imbalanced at all, just that it can be very annoying. Plus now, if you manage to do a run-by or a drop or something of the sort, the Protoss can split up their forces and instantly defend, like no other race can. And in the meanwhile, they can go ahead and attack into your base, effectively stopping a drop and continuing aggression. I just don't feel like it is fair. Not only that, but it is also another energy dump, something that I don't feel Protosses really need, considering that even the best of pros have still not been able to utilize Chrono Boost to it's fullest potential in the late game yet. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On April 13 2012 00:55 Shiladie wrote: and in TvZ stacking 3 of them on a choke made it invulnerable to all attack pre-broodlord (because hydras are still useless as well) They didn't stack afaik. | ||
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jdsowa
405 Posts
Each of the races have "holes" in terms of their basic units. But if you fill the holes, then the distinctions between the races are blurred. I think the answer might lie in making more mid-late game research/spells/functionality upgrades available. This way you retain the core units, but give them added capabilities. Of course this sort of thing will introduce balance issues like anything else, but it will make for a more varied late game, while retaining the basic racial characteristic balance. | ||
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Ghost7718
United States1 Post
Terran: Not much to say about the Terran changes. Sounds like they need more time to think about what Terran could use, because they've got a pretty nice set of tools as is. Protoss: While I thought the replicator was cool... I had no idea how they were going to balance it. It was probably the right call to take it out. I'm glad they are keeping the oracle as I'm very much looking forward to some sort of fast harassment type unit. One of my favorite units in the game (and since brood war) is the carrier. It was a tough pill to swallow when they said they planned to take the carrier out of the game. It was an even tougher pill to swallow when they made this HOTs update that said they want to try and make the Tempest a flying siege type unit that can hit ground and air. Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't that the exact role of the old brood war style carrier? I have no idea what needs to be done to the carrier to make it usable in competitive play, but I'd like think blizzard is in touch with pro-gamers and are getting recommendations and for whatever reason, they feel they can't go that route. Perhaps a slight range increase on the existing carrier, combined with a hit point boost on the interceptors would do the trick. While I'm excited about the mobility mass recall ability on each Nexus... it’s one of those things that is such a game changer its hard for me to understand how they are going to balance that. I think I'd love them to bring the Arbiter back and the mass recall linked to that level of tech and stage of the game. The problem with the mother ships is, you can only have 1, and it’s really expensive. I'm not saying its a bad unit (vortex can win games)... but I am saying the mass recall ability doesn't get much use because of the fact you've only got 1. In SC Brood War you could recall around the map with having some Arbiters with your army, and some back at home. I'll be interested to see how things play out when they get closer to a beta build of the game (assuming they do a beta). Zerg: I'm not sure what to think about the new Nydus worms they are toying with... it would seem like if you got a successful Nydus worm off you would just flood units into their base and wreck the place anyway. I am glad they are keeping the overseer. | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On April 13 2012 00:55 SmileZerg wrote: Like I said, test it out in HotS custom. It will surprise you. I really like the swarm host concept, though I'm worried that blizz will make them super weak due to lower level players being unable to deal with them. Making them entirely useless vs anyone who can think and create counter units. In the couple HotS custom games I played back when they were announced, they're great against somebody who can't stabilize, which I think fulfills their initial design goal of giving zerg a way to finish off people in the mid game. This however made for some games where people raged at how powerful they were, even though they were already decently behind when they came out. Terrans right now are too used to being able to hold off a zerg player without any effort while they do repeated failed drop/banshee/helion attacks. From what I've seen, the swarm host is made to stop that kind of play, giving the zerg the ability to punish the terran for losing all of their harassment units doing next to no damage. Conversely, I found swarm hosts to be next to useless on offense vs a terran playing standard, as the spawned units do next to no damage vs a larger force. On top of allowing the zerg to punish it also gives them a tool for breaking/delaying the slow push, as the terran leapfrogs tanks forwards, leapfrog the swarm hosts back, and you can whittle down their army and force them to move in slowly, scanning each step, or forcing a raven to be built. Some play I really want to try, though it will be gas heavy is to go muta-swarmhost-viper, the mutas and couple vipers fly around and abduct the tank/colossus/raven/observer out of the army to kill them, while the swarm hosts delay any ground pushes. Without detection or siege units the swarm hosts should be able to hold their ground, allowing you to expand/tech up during your muta harass without getting steamrolled like you would currently. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
A useful thor that can not be feedbacked might help towards making mech viable in TvP | ||
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omgimonfire15
United States233 Posts
Terran: Reaper health regeneration was not touched upon at all. How fast is this regeneration? Maybe one could make it so that after holding still for 5 or so second, they start to regenerate like a roach. Taking out its anti building attack is a mistake in my book. If they buff it a little, it would be a viable raiding unit that wouldn't die so easily. Thor is still under construction so I have no idea what will happen. Shredder should be added as a temporary tower that does a decent amount of damage to the planetary fortress or orbital command. That way, zealot harass and zergling runbys could be more easily dealt with while stopping the player from making mules or scanning. Redline reactor sounds good still so battlecruisers aren't picked off like flies. Protoss: They need to make forcefields have health in my opinion (but ti can still be stomped by massive units). If recall is present, make colossi slower or make deathball slower in general. Protoss need units though in my opinion in order to diversify play. Nexus abillities should be looked over as well. Zerg: No burrowed moving banelings, the IMBA level is off the charts. Ultralisk charge upgrade is cool in my book, helps them get around chokes and stuff. A little unfair on ramps though perhaps. They should give he hydralisk its speed upgrade again. Fungal should be modified so a combo of fungal and cloud isn't ridiculously overpowered. Overseer should be revamped in terms of energy cost and overall cost. | ||
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AssyrianKing
Australia2116 Posts
-bring back firebat -bring back goliath -make hellions drop spider mines -remove thor (optional Protoss: -bring back carrier Zerg -Bring back scourge -Get rid of curroptor... THERE WE GO! :D | ||
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epicdemic
Netherlands137 Posts
Terrans Whether this is meaningful, considering terrans have marines, is still in question. Lol! | ||
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StrafeJD
United States39 Posts
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Creager
Germany1920 Posts
liked the defensive abilitiy potential on open maps. however, they really should consider just giving the Viking an expensive t3 upgrade (from fusion core maybe) for some anti air splash damage (pretty much like a valkyrie). Terran also lacks some kind of ground splash besides siege tanks IMO, the other races have plenty of that :/ | ||
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FrogOfWar
Germany1406 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10811 Posts
On April 13 2012 02:04 FrogOfWar wrote: I wonder if the idea behind adding more mobility (worms, recall) is to avoid deathball vs deathball dynamics and encourage harassment, multi-pronged attacks and more strategic play. If so, I think it's good idea, but I'm not sure whether it will work out, since WoL already offers more mobility than BW and still has given birth to deathballs because of pathing, unit ai and unlimited control groups. However, in higher level games we see a lot of warp-ins all over the map, warp prism play and medivac dropping, which makes for fun and exciting games and is a good development. Zerg still could make more use of drop and nydus imo. Imagine how cool it would be if all the apm that is saved by mbs, auto-mining and all that stuff goes into micro and meaningful strategic moves. The main problem is that a 4 base Z and 3 base T/P have everythign they ever want when it comes to production... You just max WAAAAY to fast in SC2. SC/BW? You often see 20-30 min games whiteout any player ever maxing while having 5 expansions... The sheer scale of SC/BW is WAY diffrent from SC2... SC2 feels like SC/BW playd with a 100 supply cap... Which sucks. You don't see multiple skirmishes because there are just not enough units to make it feasible... Losing out on 2 medivacs + units or similar amounts of units means that you will lose the "real" battle if the enemy engages you at that moment (it can also win you the game, don't get me wrong)... There are just to less units on the field in SC2... | ||
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nerak
Brazil256 Posts
On April 12 2012 23:20 Meatloaf wrote: hope they adress the lack of depth Z has too. Don't worry. One extra caster (that can blind roaches) The swarm host (very unique unit) Cover-ops banelings and fun with nydus worms If anything, ZvZ is not going to be the same. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:37 PiPoGevy wrote: Terran: -bring back firebat -bring back goliath -make hellions drop spider mines -remove thor (optional Protoss: -bring back carrier Zerg -Bring back scourge -Get rid of curroptor... THERE WE GO! :D Yeah. Actually, let's revert to BW and forfeit the chance to learn new strategies and develop a new game. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:04 jdsowa wrote: The problem here is that the game may not necessarily even need additional units, but Blizzard HAS to make them in order to justify the 2 expansion packs. Each of the races have "holes" in terms of their basic units. But if you fill the holes, then the distinctions between the races are blurred. This is a very good point. If the expansion fills some holes, it should also create new holes to keep the differences of each race. | ||
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
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Avalain
Canada308 Posts
On April 12 2012 01:27 Technique wrote: Kinda gay they push this through peoples throat that don't play any single player. 50 euro for few extra units? Yay I know there's hardly any chance you'll see this reply 60 pages later, but for those people who think along the same lines as you do, I actually think it's the other way around. It's the people who buy the game for the single player and then move on to something else who are basically subsidizing the costs for multiplayer balance patches and ongoing server maintenance. Yes, there may not be nearly as much new content for multiplayer, and the actual work involved with balancing new units compared to building scripted scenarios with voice casting and animation sequences is less. However, the ongoing support is not covered by a subscription fee because it's funded by the number of copies sold and I guarantee that there are more people who bought the game, played the single player, dabbled in multiplayer for a bit and then quit than there are people who haven't touched the single player and are still playing multiplayer today. | ||
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FrogOfWar
Germany1406 Posts
On April 13 2012 02:07 Velr wrote: The main problem is that a 4 base Z and 3 base T/P have everythign they ever want when it comes to production... You just max WAAAAY to fast in SC2. SC/BW? You often see 20-30 min games whiteout any player ever maxing while having 5 expansions... The sheer scale of SC/BW is WAY diffrent from SC2... SC2 feels like SC/BW playd with a 100 supply cap... Which sucks. You don't see multiple skirmishes because there are just not enough units to make it feasible... Losing out on 2 medivacs + units or similar amounts of units means that you will lose the "real" battle if the enemy engages you at that moment (it can also win you the game, don't get me wrong)... There are just to less units on the field in SC2... True. When a game goes on to the lategame, the main task (for me as zerg at least) often is to lose my units in a way that leaves enough time to remax for the next engagement, so it becomes a remaxing race in which money isn't an issue. Or the task is to lose units in order to be able to get higher tech units. I tend to get more and more static defenses because they don't cost supply (like terrans spam orbitals to get rid of scvs). I agree, this could become a big problem for the game, that it becomes stale when it actually should climax. | ||
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