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I guess that having a global equivalent to the BW scene would require worldwide companies as sponsors, like Microsoft, AT&T, Citygroup, etc to sponsor international teams. Don't see that happening though, at least without a stable scene.
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sc2 is so small that it needs a governing body that encapsulates all the teams, I feel this segregation is bad for the scene in terms of its progression into a mainstream sport, we shouldn't be competing amongst ourselves but with established sports
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Fnatic should be in this organisation IMO, their SC2 lineup is based in Korea, they have a teamhouse there, they're managers are Koreans (Hwanni, SpS and the one who scouts the talent for the academy), and they want to participate in the korean teamleagues.
Although Fnatic already has pretty good relations with OGN (since their LoL team was invited to their LoL league), maybe they already been in contact with OGN.
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On March 30 2012 22:05 DarK[A] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 22:03 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 22:01 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 22:00 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:54 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:48 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:43 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:41 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:36 jpak wrote:Just to estimate how much interest the current Korean BW teams actually have for foreign fans, let's see what the companies actually are: Preface: For these companies, the teams are another way of getting their name and brand out to the market. For their "advertisement" expenses in these teams to be worthwhile, they need to hit the demographics and the audiences they intended for. 1. ACE: Needs no explanation. Solely focused in Korea. 2. SKT and KT: These are rival telecom companies that mainly operate in South Korea. They are the internet and phone providers for South Korea. They have little interest in going out-of-country, certainly not in the NA and EU markets. Also very closely related to the E-sports market, so no surprisingly they are the biggest two BW teams at the moment. 3. STX: It's a shipping company. Honestly, I didn't even know about a company called STX until I saw STX Soul. It's still a mystery to me exactly why they decided to fund a team, but I guess people like me are exactly why. 4. Samsung: They probably have the most to gain from the NA/EU market. They could become like Razer, MSI, and other electronic companies currently sponsoring Western E-sports and market their TVs, monitors, computer hardwares, and phones through this channel. 5. CJ: They probably have the 2nd most to gain from the NA/EU markets out of all the teams. CJ Entertainment certainly could use exposure in marketing their new movies out to a non-Korean audience. GOM and OGN are also subsidiaries of CJ, so that could be a factor. Viewers actually matter for this company. 6. Woongjin: List of Woongjin businesses From what I knew beforehand, Woongjin is a chemical and food company (Woongjin drinks ftw). Not really sure how they can market themselves overseas through E-sports. I left out Team 8 cause it's a league-owned team. If there's a way to sway Kespa to do something for the foreign fans, it would be through Team 8, imo. Overall, I think over half the companies have little to no interest in marketing themselves to the west, at least not through E-sports. Edit: Of course, this is just one man's opinion. You are welcome to try to make me see that there IS a market out there for some of these companies. That seems to be a flaw in how BW works. Teams are sponsored by one company. For BW this worked well as there's enough local interest in korea alone. SC2 is shaping up to be a worldwide esport and as such local sponsors have less to gain. Maybe teams will be picked up by other companies or several companies run a team together? Yes, a worldwide E-sport. But which companies have the most to gain from it? Are they going to gain anything at all? At the end of the day, you have to ask the question: What's in this for ME? You are right, a lot of these companies ARE local. That's why they will have no interest in reaching to a global audience. Especially the telecom companies. Yeah but isn't popularity for BW on a downwards trend and SC2 isn't huge in korea? Maybe it's not sustainable to korean teams to be sponsored by ONE company. Foreign teams sure aren't. All i'm saying is that just because local korean companies currently sponsor teams on a one-to-one basis doesn't mean that won't change with a more global market. I'm pretty sure many global companies that aim products towards gaming would be very interested in ex-BW level players and teams, but i'm not sure. The bolded parts are exactly why those local companies listed above will be a lot more wary about investing in a SC2 team, even if the expenses are split between companies. And just look at those companies, most of them don't even have products and services that (directly) aim towards gaming. That's why Korean BW was touted for a long time as a legitimate E-sports. It managed to attract the attention and the money of even those companies who seemingly had no products and services aimed towards gaming. The teams and the players, sure. Current sponsors of foreign E-sports would be very interested in them. To me it doesn't really show much legitimacy if a esport only survives in one country by sponsorships by local companies, it shows a lack of breadth. But that has little to do with the OP. Maybe well see local korean sponsors team up with global or even western ones to cover both the korean and euro/american market? Could be really cool. Maybe. It's something we will have to see. One more thing: Those companies are not so much "local" as they are "Korean." South Korea is tiny compared to Europe and America, after all. Yeah i meant local as in "only in SK". I have a Samsung monitor =/
We were talking about the majority of local sponsors mentioned previously.
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Good move. Big move. Can't tell if like.
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On March 30 2012 22:11 mememolly wrote:
sc2 is so small that it needs a governing body that encapsulates all the teams, I feel this segregation is bad for the scene in terms of its progression into a mainstream sport, we shouldn't be competing amongst ourselves but with established sports
We are not competeting, its Korea competing with Korea  Their "density" beats our "quantity" tenfold.
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I feel like some of the international teams are thrown under the bus and some of them have multiple Koreans in the GSL. Look at TL, EG and fnatic wouldn't they like to have a say in the organization. What about the new coming teams in Korea that have team houses? I wonder how teams teams are holding up.
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I just hope this would not mean they would have a say in which tournaments players can or cannot participate in (I'm referring to NASL season 2, when SC2con didn't allow it's players to participate).
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On March 30 2012 22:00 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 21:54 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:48 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:43 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:41 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:36 jpak wrote:Just to estimate how much interest the current Korean BW teams actually have for foreign fans, let's see what the companies actually are: Preface: For these companies, the teams are another way of getting their name and brand out to the market. For their "advertisement" expenses in these teams to be worthwhile, they need to hit the demographics and the audiences they intended for. 1. ACE: Needs no explanation. Solely focused in Korea. 2. SKT and KT: These are rival telecom companies that mainly operate in South Korea. They are the internet and phone providers for South Korea. They have little interest in going out-of-country, certainly not in the NA and EU markets. Also very closely related to the E-sports market, so no surprisingly they are the biggest two BW teams at the moment. 3. STX: It's a shipping company. Honestly, I didn't even know about a company called STX until I saw STX Soul. It's still a mystery to me exactly why they decided to fund a team, but I guess people like me are exactly why. 4. Samsung: They probably have the most to gain from the NA/EU market. They could become like Razer, MSI, and other electronic companies currently sponsoring Western E-sports and market their TVs, monitors, computer hardwares, and phones through this channel. 5. CJ: They probably have the 2nd most to gain from the NA/EU markets out of all the teams. CJ Entertainment certainly could use exposure in marketing their new movies out to a non-Korean audience. GOM and OGN are also subsidiaries of CJ, so that could be a factor. Viewers actually matter for this company. 6. Woongjin: List of Woongjin businesses From what I knew beforehand, Woongjin is a chemical and food company (Woongjin drinks ftw). Not really sure how they can market themselves overseas through E-sports. I left out Team 8 cause it's a league-owned team. If there's a way to sway Kespa to do something for the foreign fans, it would be through Team 8, imo. Overall, I think over half the companies have little to no interest in marketing themselves to the west, at least not through E-sports. Edit: Of course, this is just one man's opinion. You are welcome to try to make me see that there IS a market out there for some of these companies. That seems to be a flaw in how BW works. Teams are sponsored by one company. For BW this worked well as there's enough local interest in korea alone. SC2 is shaping up to be a worldwide esport and as such local sponsors have less to gain. Maybe teams will be picked up by other companies or several companies run a team together? Yes, a worldwide E-sport. But which companies have the most to gain from it? Are they going to gain anything at all? At the end of the day, you have to ask the question: What's in this for ME? You are right, a lot of these companies ARE local. That's why they will have no interest in reaching to a global audience. Especially the telecom companies. Yeah but isn't popularity for BW on a downwards trend and SC2 isn't huge in korea? Maybe it's not sustainable to korean teams to be sponsored by ONE company. Foreign teams sure aren't. All i'm saying is that just because local korean companies currently sponsor teams on a one-to-one basis doesn't mean that won't change with a more global market. I'm pretty sure many global companies that aim products towards gaming would be very interested in ex-BW level players and teams, but i'm not sure. The bolded parts are exactly why those local companies listed above will be a lot more wary about investing in a SC2 team, even if the expenses are split between companies. And just look at those companies, most of them don't even have products and services that (directly) aim towards gaming. That's why Korean BW was touted for a long time as a legitimate E-sports. It managed to attract the attention and the money of even those companies who seemingly had no products and services aimed towards gaming. The teams and the players, sure. Current sponsors of foreign E-sports would be very interested in them. To me it doesn't really show much legitimacy if a esport only survives in one country by sponsorships by local companies, it shows a lack of breadth. But that has little to do with the OP. Maybe well see local korean sponsors team up with global or even western ones to cover both the korean and euro/american market? Could be really cool.
Why does local sponsoring shows a lack of legitimacy. I think its the opposite. When local companies that don't sell gaming related products are willing to sponsor a team thats a good sign. If we look at traditional sports that happens all the time.
And to all the concerns about the inclusion of foreigners.
If we look at OGNs new Lol league we can see two foreign teams invited and a good english stream.
So i think a OGN SC2 league would do the same.
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On March 30 2012 22:21 Uracil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 22:00 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:54 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:48 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:43 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:41 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:36 jpak wrote:Just to estimate how much interest the current Korean BW teams actually have for foreign fans, let's see what the companies actually are: Preface: For these companies, the teams are another way of getting their name and brand out to the market. For their "advertisement" expenses in these teams to be worthwhile, they need to hit the demographics and the audiences they intended for. 1. ACE: Needs no explanation. Solely focused in Korea. 2. SKT and KT: These are rival telecom companies that mainly operate in South Korea. They are the internet and phone providers for South Korea. They have little interest in going out-of-country, certainly not in the NA and EU markets. Also very closely related to the E-sports market, so no surprisingly they are the biggest two BW teams at the moment. 3. STX: It's a shipping company. Honestly, I didn't even know about a company called STX until I saw STX Soul. It's still a mystery to me exactly why they decided to fund a team, but I guess people like me are exactly why. 4. Samsung: They probably have the most to gain from the NA/EU market. They could become like Razer, MSI, and other electronic companies currently sponsoring Western E-sports and market their TVs, monitors, computer hardwares, and phones through this channel. 5. CJ: They probably have the 2nd most to gain from the NA/EU markets out of all the teams. CJ Entertainment certainly could use exposure in marketing their new movies out to a non-Korean audience. GOM and OGN are also subsidiaries of CJ, so that could be a factor. Viewers actually matter for this company. 6. Woongjin: List of Woongjin businesses From what I knew beforehand, Woongjin is a chemical and food company (Woongjin drinks ftw). Not really sure how they can market themselves overseas through E-sports. I left out Team 8 cause it's a league-owned team. If there's a way to sway Kespa to do something for the foreign fans, it would be through Team 8, imo. Overall, I think over half the companies have little to no interest in marketing themselves to the west, at least not through E-sports. Edit: Of course, this is just one man's opinion. You are welcome to try to make me see that there IS a market out there for some of these companies. That seems to be a flaw in how BW works. Teams are sponsored by one company. For BW this worked well as there's enough local interest in korea alone. SC2 is shaping up to be a worldwide esport and as such local sponsors have less to gain. Maybe teams will be picked up by other companies or several companies run a team together? Yes, a worldwide E-sport. But which companies have the most to gain from it? Are they going to gain anything at all? At the end of the day, you have to ask the question: What's in this for ME? You are right, a lot of these companies ARE local. That's why they will have no interest in reaching to a global audience. Especially the telecom companies. Yeah but isn't popularity for BW on a downwards trend and SC2 isn't huge in korea? Maybe it's not sustainable to korean teams to be sponsored by ONE company. Foreign teams sure aren't. All i'm saying is that just because local korean companies currently sponsor teams on a one-to-one basis doesn't mean that won't change with a more global market. I'm pretty sure many global companies that aim products towards gaming would be very interested in ex-BW level players and teams, but i'm not sure. The bolded parts are exactly why those local companies listed above will be a lot more wary about investing in a SC2 team, even if the expenses are split between companies. And just look at those companies, most of them don't even have products and services that (directly) aim towards gaming. That's why Korean BW was touted for a long time as a legitimate E-sports. It managed to attract the attention and the money of even those companies who seemingly had no products and services aimed towards gaming. The teams and the players, sure. Current sponsors of foreign E-sports would be very interested in them. To me it doesn't really show much legitimacy if a esport only survives in one country by sponsorships by local companies, it shows a lack of breadth. But that has little to do with the OP. Maybe well see local korean sponsors team up with global or even western ones to cover both the korean and euro/american market? Could be really cool. Why does local sponsoring shows a lack of legitimacy. I think its the opposite. When local companies that don't sell gaming related products are willing to sponsor a team thats a good sign. If we look at traditional sports that happens all the time. And to all the concerns about the inclusion of foreigners. If we look at OGNs new Lol league we can see two foreign teams invited and a good english stream. So i think a OGN SC2 league would do the same.
Additionally consider that the BW teams aren't sponsored in the traditional sense, but actually are owned by their companies.
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On March 30 2012 22:24 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 22:21 Uracil wrote:On March 30 2012 22:00 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:54 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:48 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:43 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:41 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:36 jpak wrote:Just to estimate how much interest the current Korean BW teams actually have for foreign fans, let's see what the companies actually are: Preface: For these companies, the teams are another way of getting their name and brand out to the market. For their "advertisement" expenses in these teams to be worthwhile, they need to hit the demographics and the audiences they intended for. 1. ACE: Needs no explanation. Solely focused in Korea. 2. SKT and KT: These are rival telecom companies that mainly operate in South Korea. They are the internet and phone providers for South Korea. They have little interest in going out-of-country, certainly not in the NA and EU markets. Also very closely related to the E-sports market, so no surprisingly they are the biggest two BW teams at the moment. 3. STX: It's a shipping company. Honestly, I didn't even know about a company called STX until I saw STX Soul. It's still a mystery to me exactly why they decided to fund a team, but I guess people like me are exactly why. 4. Samsung: They probably have the most to gain from the NA/EU market. They could become like Razer, MSI, and other electronic companies currently sponsoring Western E-sports and market their TVs, monitors, computer hardwares, and phones through this channel. 5. CJ: They probably have the 2nd most to gain from the NA/EU markets out of all the teams. CJ Entertainment certainly could use exposure in marketing their new movies out to a non-Korean audience. GOM and OGN are also subsidiaries of CJ, so that could be a factor. Viewers actually matter for this company. 6. Woongjin: List of Woongjin businesses From what I knew beforehand, Woongjin is a chemical and food company (Woongjin drinks ftw). Not really sure how they can market themselves overseas through E-sports. I left out Team 8 cause it's a league-owned team. If there's a way to sway Kespa to do something for the foreign fans, it would be through Team 8, imo. Overall, I think over half the companies have little to no interest in marketing themselves to the west, at least not through E-sports. Edit: Of course, this is just one man's opinion. You are welcome to try to make me see that there IS a market out there for some of these companies. That seems to be a flaw in how BW works. Teams are sponsored by one company. For BW this worked well as there's enough local interest in korea alone. SC2 is shaping up to be a worldwide esport and as such local sponsors have less to gain. Maybe teams will be picked up by other companies or several companies run a team together? Yes, a worldwide E-sport. But which companies have the most to gain from it? Are they going to gain anything at all? At the end of the day, you have to ask the question: What's in this for ME? You are right, a lot of these companies ARE local. That's why they will have no interest in reaching to a global audience. Especially the telecom companies. Yeah but isn't popularity for BW on a downwards trend and SC2 isn't huge in korea? Maybe it's not sustainable to korean teams to be sponsored by ONE company. Foreign teams sure aren't. All i'm saying is that just because local korean companies currently sponsor teams on a one-to-one basis doesn't mean that won't change with a more global market. I'm pretty sure many global companies that aim products towards gaming would be very interested in ex-BW level players and teams, but i'm not sure. The bolded parts are exactly why those local companies listed above will be a lot more wary about investing in a SC2 team, even if the expenses are split between companies. And just look at those companies, most of them don't even have products and services that (directly) aim towards gaming. That's why Korean BW was touted for a long time as a legitimate E-sports. It managed to attract the attention and the money of even those companies who seemingly had no products and services aimed towards gaming. The teams and the players, sure. Current sponsors of foreign E-sports would be very interested in them. To me it doesn't really show much legitimacy if a esport only survives in one country by sponsorships by local companies, it shows a lack of breadth. But that has little to do with the OP. Maybe well see local korean sponsors team up with global or even western ones to cover both the korean and euro/american market? Could be really cool. Why does local sponsoring shows a lack of legitimacy. I think its the opposite. When local companies that don't sell gaming related products are willing to sponsor a team thats a good sign. If we look at traditional sports that happens all the time. And to all the concerns about the inclusion of foreigners. If we look at OGNs new Lol league we can see two foreign teams invited and a good english stream. So i think a OGN SC2 league would do the same. Additionally consider that the BW teams aren't sponsored in the traditional sense, but actually are owned by their companies.
Forgot to say that before, but yes, the teams are actually owned by the companies.
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Maybe that's a good thing but i'm pretty sure that isn't the norm in regular team sports. Maybe it's also something specific for BW and the very concetrated fanbase? I'm no expert.
On March 30 2012 22:21 Uracil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 22:00 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:54 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:48 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:43 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:41 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:36 jpak wrote:Just to estimate how much interest the current Korean BW teams actually have for foreign fans, let's see what the companies actually are: Preface: For these companies, the teams are another way of getting their name and brand out to the market. For their "advertisement" expenses in these teams to be worthwhile, they need to hit the demographics and the audiences they intended for. 1. ACE: Needs no explanation. Solely focused in Korea. 2. SKT and KT: These are rival telecom companies that mainly operate in South Korea. They are the internet and phone providers for South Korea. They have little interest in going out-of-country, certainly not in the NA and EU markets. Also very closely related to the E-sports market, so no surprisingly they are the biggest two BW teams at the moment. 3. STX: It's a shipping company. Honestly, I didn't even know about a company called STX until I saw STX Soul. It's still a mystery to me exactly why they decided to fund a team, but I guess people like me are exactly why. 4. Samsung: They probably have the most to gain from the NA/EU market. They could become like Razer, MSI, and other electronic companies currently sponsoring Western E-sports and market their TVs, monitors, computer hardwares, and phones through this channel. 5. CJ: They probably have the 2nd most to gain from the NA/EU markets out of all the teams. CJ Entertainment certainly could use exposure in marketing their new movies out to a non-Korean audience. GOM and OGN are also subsidiaries of CJ, so that could be a factor. Viewers actually matter for this company. 6. Woongjin: List of Woongjin businesses From what I knew beforehand, Woongjin is a chemical and food company (Woongjin drinks ftw). Not really sure how they can market themselves overseas through E-sports. I left out Team 8 cause it's a league-owned team. If there's a way to sway Kespa to do something for the foreign fans, it would be through Team 8, imo. Overall, I think over half the companies have little to no interest in marketing themselves to the west, at least not through E-sports. Edit: Of course, this is just one man's opinion. You are welcome to try to make me see that there IS a market out there for some of these companies. That seems to be a flaw in how BW works. Teams are sponsored by one company. For BW this worked well as there's enough local interest in korea alone. SC2 is shaping up to be a worldwide esport and as such local sponsors have less to gain. Maybe teams will be picked up by other companies or several companies run a team together? Yes, a worldwide E-sport. But which companies have the most to gain from it? Are they going to gain anything at all? At the end of the day, you have to ask the question: What's in this for ME? You are right, a lot of these companies ARE local. That's why they will have no interest in reaching to a global audience. Especially the telecom companies. Yeah but isn't popularity for BW on a downwards trend and SC2 isn't huge in korea? Maybe it's not sustainable to korean teams to be sponsored by ONE company. Foreign teams sure aren't. All i'm saying is that just because local korean companies currently sponsor teams on a one-to-one basis doesn't mean that won't change with a more global market. I'm pretty sure many global companies that aim products towards gaming would be very interested in ex-BW level players and teams, but i'm not sure. The bolded parts are exactly why those local companies listed above will be a lot more wary about investing in a SC2 team, even if the expenses are split between companies. And just look at those companies, most of them don't even have products and services that (directly) aim towards gaming. That's why Korean BW was touted for a long time as a legitimate E-sports. It managed to attract the attention and the money of even those companies who seemingly had no products and services aimed towards gaming. The teams and the players, sure. Current sponsors of foreign E-sports would be very interested in them. To me it doesn't really show much legitimacy if a esport only survives in one country by sponsorships by local companies, it shows a lack of breadth. But that has little to do with the OP. Maybe well see local korean sponsors team up with global or even western ones to cover both the korean and euro/american market? Could be really cool. Why does local sponsoring shows a lack of legitimacy. I think its the opposite. When local companies that don't sell gaming related products are willing to sponsor a team thats a good sign. If we look at traditional sports that happens all the time. And to all the concerns about the inclusion of foreigners. If we look at OGNs new Lol league we can see two foreign teams invited and a good english stream. So i think a OGN SC2 league would do the same.
What i meant is that in traditional sports it's more like lower leagues are sponsored by "local" companies be it local to a city or country (often to support "the home team" more than actual exposure). BW is more similar to a nations soccer league, being sponsored by some large companies and more country/city specific ones. SC2's fanbase is spread out more in the style of premier league/la liga soccer team fanbases, and sponsors that work globally have more of a reason to sponsor teams like that. SC2 better follows the way global sports work with sponsors whereas BW seems more isolated and in a way is more narrow in appeal to sponsors. Not saying anything about the games themselves, just the way they've worked with viewership and fanbases.
That's how it seems to me but, again, i'm no expert on stuff like this.
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On March 30 2012 22:25 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 22:24 blubbdavid wrote:On March 30 2012 22:21 Uracil wrote:On March 30 2012 22:00 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:54 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:48 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:43 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:41 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:36 jpak wrote:Just to estimate how much interest the current Korean BW teams actually have for foreign fans, let's see what the companies actually are: Preface: For these companies, the teams are another way of getting their name and brand out to the market. For their "advertisement" expenses in these teams to be worthwhile, they need to hit the demographics and the audiences they intended for. 1. ACE: Needs no explanation. Solely focused in Korea. 2. SKT and KT: These are rival telecom companies that mainly operate in South Korea. They are the internet and phone providers for South Korea. They have little interest in going out-of-country, certainly not in the NA and EU markets. Also very closely related to the E-sports market, so no surprisingly they are the biggest two BW teams at the moment. 3. STX: It's a shipping company. Honestly, I didn't even know about a company called STX until I saw STX Soul. It's still a mystery to me exactly why they decided to fund a team, but I guess people like me are exactly why. 4. Samsung: They probably have the most to gain from the NA/EU market. They could become like Razer, MSI, and other electronic companies currently sponsoring Western E-sports and market their TVs, monitors, computer hardwares, and phones through this channel. 5. CJ: They probably have the 2nd most to gain from the NA/EU markets out of all the teams. CJ Entertainment certainly could use exposure in marketing their new movies out to a non-Korean audience. GOM and OGN are also subsidiaries of CJ, so that could be a factor. Viewers actually matter for this company. 6. Woongjin: List of Woongjin businesses From what I knew beforehand, Woongjin is a chemical and food company (Woongjin drinks ftw). Not really sure how they can market themselves overseas through E-sports. I left out Team 8 cause it's a league-owned team. If there's a way to sway Kespa to do something for the foreign fans, it would be through Team 8, imo. Overall, I think over half the companies have little to no interest in marketing themselves to the west, at least not through E-sports. Edit: Of course, this is just one man's opinion. You are welcome to try to make me see that there IS a market out there for some of these companies. That seems to be a flaw in how BW works. Teams are sponsored by one company. For BW this worked well as there's enough local interest in korea alone. SC2 is shaping up to be a worldwide esport and as such local sponsors have less to gain. Maybe teams will be picked up by other companies or several companies run a team together? Yes, a worldwide E-sport. But which companies have the most to gain from it? Are they going to gain anything at all? At the end of the day, you have to ask the question: What's in this for ME? You are right, a lot of these companies ARE local. That's why they will have no interest in reaching to a global audience. Especially the telecom companies. Yeah but isn't popularity for BW on a downwards trend and SC2 isn't huge in korea? Maybe it's not sustainable to korean teams to be sponsored by ONE company. Foreign teams sure aren't. All i'm saying is that just because local korean companies currently sponsor teams on a one-to-one basis doesn't mean that won't change with a more global market. I'm pretty sure many global companies that aim products towards gaming would be very interested in ex-BW level players and teams, but i'm not sure. The bolded parts are exactly why those local companies listed above will be a lot more wary about investing in a SC2 team, even if the expenses are split between companies. And just look at those companies, most of them don't even have products and services that (directly) aim towards gaming. That's why Korean BW was touted for a long time as a legitimate E-sports. It managed to attract the attention and the money of even those companies who seemingly had no products and services aimed towards gaming. The teams and the players, sure. Current sponsors of foreign E-sports would be very interested in them. To me it doesn't really show much legitimacy if a esport only survives in one country by sponsorships by local companies, it shows a lack of breadth. But that has little to do with the OP. Maybe well see local korean sponsors team up with global or even western ones to cover both the korean and euro/american market? Could be really cool. Why does local sponsoring shows a lack of legitimacy. I think its the opposite. When local companies that don't sell gaming related products are willing to sponsor a team thats a good sign. If we look at traditional sports that happens all the time. And to all the concerns about the inclusion of foreigners. If we look at OGNs new Lol league we can see two foreign teams invited and a good english stream. So i think a OGN SC2 league would do the same. Additionally consider that the BW teams aren't sponsored in the traditional sense, but actually are owned by their companies. Forgot to say that before, but yes, the teams are actually owned by the companies.
Which is rare in real Sports but also happens there. For example FC Chelsea.
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Lol.. I foresee hundreds of bureaucratic bullshit conflicts between these organisations. Maybe I'm pessimistic but.. yeah it'll be interesting to see what happens.
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On March 30 2012 22:30 karpo wrote:Maybe that's a good thing but i'm pretty sure that isn't the norm in regular team sports. Maybe it's also something specific for BW and the very concetrated fanbase? I'm no expert. Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 22:21 Uracil wrote:On March 30 2012 22:00 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:54 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:48 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:43 jpak wrote:On March 30 2012 21:41 karpo wrote:On March 30 2012 21:36 jpak wrote:Just to estimate how much interest the current Korean BW teams actually have for foreign fans, let's see what the companies actually are: Preface: For these companies, the teams are another way of getting their name and brand out to the market. For their "advertisement" expenses in these teams to be worthwhile, they need to hit the demographics and the audiences they intended for. 1. ACE: Needs no explanation. Solely focused in Korea. 2. SKT and KT: These are rival telecom companies that mainly operate in South Korea. They are the internet and phone providers for South Korea. They have little interest in going out-of-country, certainly not in the NA and EU markets. Also very closely related to the E-sports market, so no surprisingly they are the biggest two BW teams at the moment. 3. STX: It's a shipping company. Honestly, I didn't even know about a company called STX until I saw STX Soul. It's still a mystery to me exactly why they decided to fund a team, but I guess people like me are exactly why. 4. Samsung: They probably have the most to gain from the NA/EU market. They could become like Razer, MSI, and other electronic companies currently sponsoring Western E-sports and market their TVs, monitors, computer hardwares, and phones through this channel. 5. CJ: They probably have the 2nd most to gain from the NA/EU markets out of all the teams. CJ Entertainment certainly could use exposure in marketing their new movies out to a non-Korean audience. GOM and OGN are also subsidiaries of CJ, so that could be a factor. Viewers actually matter for this company. 6. Woongjin: List of Woongjin businesses From what I knew beforehand, Woongjin is a chemical and food company (Woongjin drinks ftw). Not really sure how they can market themselves overseas through E-sports. I left out Team 8 cause it's a league-owned team. If there's a way to sway Kespa to do something for the foreign fans, it would be through Team 8, imo. Overall, I think over half the companies have little to no interest in marketing themselves to the west, at least not through E-sports. Edit: Of course, this is just one man's opinion. You are welcome to try to make me see that there IS a market out there for some of these companies. That seems to be a flaw in how BW works. Teams are sponsored by one company. For BW this worked well as there's enough local interest in korea alone. SC2 is shaping up to be a worldwide esport and as such local sponsors have less to gain. Maybe teams will be picked up by other companies or several companies run a team together? Yes, a worldwide E-sport. But which companies have the most to gain from it? Are they going to gain anything at all? At the end of the day, you have to ask the question: What's in this for ME? You are right, a lot of these companies ARE local. That's why they will have no interest in reaching to a global audience. Especially the telecom companies. Yeah but isn't popularity for BW on a downwards trend and SC2 isn't huge in korea? Maybe it's not sustainable to korean teams to be sponsored by ONE company. Foreign teams sure aren't. All i'm saying is that just because local korean companies currently sponsor teams on a one-to-one basis doesn't mean that won't change with a more global market. I'm pretty sure many global companies that aim products towards gaming would be very interested in ex-BW level players and teams, but i'm not sure. The bolded parts are exactly why those local companies listed above will be a lot more wary about investing in a SC2 team, even if the expenses are split between companies. And just look at those companies, most of them don't even have products and services that (directly) aim towards gaming. That's why Korean BW was touted for a long time as a legitimate E-sports. It managed to attract the attention and the money of even those companies who seemingly had no products and services aimed towards gaming. The teams and the players, sure. Current sponsors of foreign E-sports would be very interested in them. To me it doesn't really show much legitimacy if a esport only survives in one country by sponsorships by local companies, it shows a lack of breadth. But that has little to do with the OP. Maybe well see local korean sponsors team up with global or even western ones to cover both the korean and euro/american market? Could be really cool. Why does local sponsoring shows a lack of legitimacy. I think its the opposite. When local companies that don't sell gaming related products are willing to sponsor a team thats a good sign. If we look at traditional sports that happens all the time. And to all the concerns about the inclusion of foreigners. If we look at OGNs new Lol league we can see two foreign teams invited and a good english stream. So i think a OGN SC2 league would do the same. What i meant is that in traditional sports it's more like lower leagues are sponsored by "local" companies be it local to a city or country (often to support "the home team" more than actual exposure). BW is more similar to a nations top soccer league, being sponsored by some large companies and more country/city specific ones. SC2's fanbase is spread out more in the style of premier league/la liga soccer team fanbases, and sponsors that work globally have more of a reason to sponsor teams like that. That's how it seems to me but, agian, i'm no expert on stuff like this.
Well I'm no expert either but i hope they can keep some big korean sponsors because i think Intel Razer or Steelseries can not sponsor all SC2 teams.
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I just hope that it won't become like BW again regarding foreign teams.
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It's funny how the Korean teams meekly accepted to be plundered and exploited and bought off by western organizations, but NOW they need an alliance to oppose KeSPA teams from doing basically the same thing (at worst). I thought everybody loved bigger sponsors and more money for the players? Well here you go!
The OP is pretty blind/biased. Korean SC2 teams really have no power or leverage to speak of, no matter how united they may be now, it's too late. GOM has some, but not enough that they can win in a fair competition. Besides, between Korean players going to western teams to waste their talent or going to KeSPA teams and leagues, I'll pick the latter any time of day, and I hope many players end up doing the same.
KeSPA has nothing against foreign players. It goes without saying, though, that there will be no rescheduling, foreign OSL seeds, or any special treatment they currently get with GOM.
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glad that they try to maintain their status, its easier to fight together, hope they will get some foreign team support. On the other hand i hope they will dissolve once the crisis is averted, which will probably not happen.
Not much we can do anyway, except from hoping that kespa won't take over the market and make it for koreans only, since they have no reason to show their teams worldwide. But i have a negative view on kespa anyway, so i don't think i have a neutral view on things.
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-_- I don't like governing bodies like this, they don't help.
Time to start Sc2 rebels, woohooo!!1 whos with me??
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How are major international teams, with players in GSL, like Liquid or EG not members of this organizations?
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EPT
