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NEW IN-GAME CHANNEL: FRB |
has anyone here played the board game "go" ???
anyway i'll be taking some interesting points from the mechanics of that game. The notion of Joseki, or a mutual exchange of ordered/set plays that result in advantages for both players, appears in almost every rts; so this post will be looking at the differences between joseki in 8m vs 6m games of sc2.
expanding:
The purpose of 6m was to get people to "spread out" and take more expansions, this allows for more "expand oriented" joseki. A good example of a joseki in 8m is the modern zvp early game, the protoss takes an FFE and the zerg gets 3 bases, and that is basicly where the joseki ends. However in 6m people are coming up with many more expand based openers. For example, zerg players are taking REALLY fast 4th bases, 3 base openers are becoming more common for protoss and even terrans are beginning to make an earlier 4th cc in zvt. (if you can't tell i'm a zerg player, so the info on pvt is kinda non existant)
why is this significant? because it leads to a more diverse mid game, and it forces a player to think about their expand patterns early and to play well the player needs to start connecting their army actions/transitions to how they expand.
next post i'll go over more mid game plays and how those are so much more important if a game has started with an "expand oriented" joseki
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On April 12 2012 11:19 Rustedlotus wrote:
has anyone here played the board game "go" ???
anyway i'll be taking some interesting points from the mechanics of that game. The notion of Joseki, or a mutual exchange of ordered/set plays that result in advantages for both players, appears in almost every rts; so this post will be looking at the differences between joseki in 8m vs 6m games of sc2.
expanding:
The purpose of 6m was to get people to "spread out" and take more expansions, this allows for more "expand oriented" joseki. A good example of a joseki in 8m is the modern zvp early game, the protoss takes an FFE and the zerg gets 3 bases, and that is basicly where the joseki ends. However in 6m people are coming up with many more expand based openers. For example, zerg players are taking REALLY fast 4th bases, 3 base openers are becoming more common for protoss and even terrans are beginning to make an earlier 4th cc in zvt. (if you can't tell i'm a zerg player, so the info on pvt is kinda non existant)
why is this significant? because it leads to a more diverse mid game, and it forces a player to think about their expand patterns early and to play well the player needs to start connecting their army actions/transitions to how they expand.
next post i'll go over more mid game plays and how those are so much more important if a game has started with an "expand oriented" joseki
Yes, go is an amazing game that is even simpler than chess, but over 9000 x harder to master.
Making SC2 6m over 8m feels like a much better game overall. I played it last night and the game was slower in terms of over all macro, but much faster in the pace of engagements all over the place. Constant harassment here and there to spread enemy army's apart was a great change of pace.
8m to 6m is like playing on a board that's 12 by 12 to 18 by 18 in go terms.
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Hey guys, Senex and I arae doing a sneak preview of what the streaming format will be like (as well as a cast) for those of you who would like to contribute feedback! Tune in at twitch.tv/pullsc
This is all for you guys!
Starts 1 am (in 15 minutes)
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I don't know if anyone has come up with that yet, but there is a custom map called "1v1 Obs Map of the Day" (formerly known as "Metalopolis + Koth Obs", which is basically a 1v1 with observers and changing players. And the interesting part is, that the map on which it is being played changes every day.
It's on the second page on the EU server and maybe if Barrin asked the people who run it, they might run a 6m map for one day.
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I finally tried this maps. I didn't like the 3 base as part of one map but others are cool. Although my toss buddy had equal number of wins/loses against my Zerg he didn't stop whining about balance. But he knows only two tactics (2 base all in or deathball play with 3+ colossi) so I don't take him seriously. Whenever I suggested him to harass more he would just complain about lack of APM. We were both Diamond when we played actively (about a year ago).
Anyways, I like slower pace of game and fights with less units.
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Yesterday I played against a fairly equal skilled Zerg player on Devolution. I kept denying the 4th and he was always at 3 base while I grabbed 5. Don't know what to think of it, but the mass roaches and blords that he was able to come up with was simply ridiculous. Ill be posting the replay soon, but what I thought would be an economy war and me starving him, did not work out as planned! I havent analyzed the replay properly though, but I felt I was always in an advantageous position. Then when he moved out it was all over lol 
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On April 13 2012 01:33 iPAndi wrote:Yesterday I played against a fairly equal skilled Zerg player on Devolution. I kept denying the 4th and he was always at 3 base while I grabbed 5. Don't know what to think of it, but the mass roaches and blords that he was able to come up with was simply ridiculous. Ill be posting the replay soon, but what I thought would be an economy war and me starving him, did not work out as planned! I havent analyzed the replay properly though, but I felt I was always in an advantageous position. Then when he moved out it was all over lol
If you're talking about your game with me, then I agree with everything you said except for the parts about us being equal in skill. You completely outplayed me that game.
But I think I was doing fine on lair tech (ling muta), but my mistake was going into broodlord infestor. The more I play these FRB maps, the more I think hive tech is pretty bad. You can just take out so many bases before I get anywhere to defend. I just saw you going HT and knew I couldn't stay on ling muta indefinitely. maybe a roach infestor switch would've been better.
Anyway, WP!
EDIT: I guess I didn't read your post thoroughly enough... as it's very evident that you didn't win the game you're talking about, you won ours so NEVERMIND!
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The more I think about it..... the more I also want macro mechanics efficiency split right down the middle 50%. Inject costs 12.5 Mana spawns 2 eggs, so it makes all mechanics twice as hard. Same with Mule + Chrono....just curious how it would make the game!
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Is anyone else having trouble getting in the FRB channel?
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Have to say wathcing those youtube vid of those 3 matches, the gameplay looks alot better and more interesting.
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On April 14 2012 03:39 -ForeverAlone- wrote:Upvoted and commented.
I did indeed also upvote and comment. 
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I'm sad; I somehow forgot that you guys are in NA and will be broadcasting the tournament way too late for me to watch live. I'll be driving my in-laws nuts watching the VODs this weekend, though. Good luck with your event!
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Hello everyone, the VoD's are up for the FRB Grand Tournament Round of 16! There were some really impressive games in there, and anyone who's interested in the idea of FRB would do well to check them out!
You can go directly to the playlist here: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB2653107EFF43915
Or just check out the youtube channel at www.youtube.com/wiseoldsenex
I'm really looking forward to what the community makes of these pro players and their approach to FRB :D
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On April 15 2012 09:01 OldManSenex wrote:Hello everyone, the VoD's are up for the FRB Grand Tournament Round of 16! There were some really impressive games in there, and anyone who's interested in the idea of FRB would do well to check them out! You can go directly to the playlist here: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB2653107EFF43915Or just check out the youtube channel at www.youtube.com/wiseoldsenexI'm really looking forward to what the community makes of these pro players and their approach to FRB :D
Oh nice, Rainbow vs. Ganzi finals incoming. That should be an amazing game.
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This is actually a really good idea and I hope that blizzard will look into more things to deter from boring play, but still keep it viable
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United States6 Posts
this is incredibly thurough and impressive analysis, to be honest you couldent be more spot on, especially referencing the frisbee vs baseball argument. one of the big reasons that sc2 has not been very interesting to me is the vast majority of games take place on one, two or three basing. rarely have i ever found myself in a game lasting longer than 20 minutes, and in broodwar, i loved having tons of expansions. the game actually felt immersive and large, i wholeheartedly support your idea.
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EPT
