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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Really, its ladder. I'm sure that everyone has raged at least once on ladder in some way. Maybe it was not the best word to use, but I feel like it's forgivable. It' all about separating your personal and private life, I guess. It's hard when they are so closely related. | ||
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ScareCrow`
Canada88 Posts
On March 10 2012 01:10 Pure-SC2 wrote: Where is this friend who used his account? Why doesn't he come on and tell us he used Orb's account and he's sorry for it and the harm it's caused Orb? Because there was a twitch VOD that he deleted after it was linked on reddit showing Orb playing against the original poster which probably buried the knife. | ||
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:12 Like a Boss wrote: Dam, dude don't even apologize for his lies. The only reason this situation got so out of hand was because he lie to cover himself up. I don't think Orb knows what he really did wrong. He knows. It just takes a lot bigger person to admit that you tried to deceive people, than it does to admit that you simply made a mistake. | ||
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UmiNotsuki
United States633 Posts
NIGGER. I'm not racist, but it's just a word. Everyone needs to calm down and realize that words aren't racist, people are. If someone who believes in racial equality, saying nigger doesn't make me racist, but if I WERE a racist and referred to black people as some other word, any other word, I would still be racist. You can say "nigger" without being racist and you can be racist without saying nigger. EDIT: This applies to "faggot," too. I'm 100% in favor of homosexual rights. They're people too, and no more or less intrinsically valuable than anyone else. Saying "faggot" doesn't change that. | ||
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Rocor
United States55 Posts
You were STREAMING out to the internet you will be held accountable for your actions. I hope you learn from this. If you are going to put yourself out there be ready to be judged. It is human nature. | ||
Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On March 10 2012 00:59 LuckyFool wrote: Hmm so the original story still stands? Orb never lied? I thought this got so big because orb lied. This whole situation sucks so bad. Well, orb says he never lied. Some people believe him, some people don't. | ||
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seanisgrand
United States1039 Posts
This is an exceptionally well expressed statement and I respect Alex for typing it up. I wholly disagree with a firing in this situation though. It appears to me that some hypocrisy exists in the EG organization as they seem to accept a double-standard for "known commodities". I'll do my best to explain what I mean. Orb uses the word "nigger", a word described by you as the most repugnant (subjective, in my opinion) of all racist terms and loses his job and a statement is issued by the terminating organization. IdrA on the other hand uses the words faggot and retard and nothing externally happens. By your description and view of the word "nigger", one could rationally assume you hold "faggot" in the same regard as "nigger" because of it's connotation and history. The same goes for retard. These are all words that represent the worst of the discriminatory statements in relation to their respective subjects. Yet it doesn't seem like EG is willing to enforce this, at least not on a macro level. For a team like EG, one of the richest eSports teams there is, I think firing Orb is easy because he's not exactly a premier caster in relation to some of SC's other "celebrity" casters. Not as many people are going to tune in specifically to see Orb cast, at least not on the level of Day9 or another famous caster, therefore it's probably pretty difficult to quantify any revenue from him. It's easy to say, well there is public outrage against Orb so let's have a look at this, he's not a proven product, his usage of the word nigger violates my beliefs, let's get rid of him, appease the pitchforks and issue a statement distancing ourselves from him and absolving our organization from any bad PR. This is OK. There is probably nothing wrong with this, despite the heavy handedness of it all. Except that this "standard", new or otherwise, doesn't hold true across all EG employees. IdrA has LONG been one of the best SC players and one of the absolute rudest when it comes to online interaction. The examples have piled up over the years and evidence is irrefutable that he's pretty sharp with the BM when it's necessary and even more so when it isn't. So in relation to Orb, he has a proven history for word usage and attitudes that should, by your very definition of discriminatory words, preclude him from any employment with your organization. What's the problem with terminating IdrA or precluding him from your organization? Money. IdrA is a money draw. People love him, tourneys love having him. He guarantees controversy and high view counts. He is a proven commodity as far as popularity goes. You lose him, and you probably lose a nice chunk of money and fans. He's clearly one of the most popular players in StarCraft today because of his skill and his ability to polarize the community. EG won't punish a commodity like IdrA publicly for statements and attitudes that EG should find equally despicable and damaging, but will take a hard stance with employees like Orb because of the bottom line and a completely respectable, but misplaced moral judgement. Because of this hard line that has been placed, EG will have a tough time hiring or signing any players in the future because of a precedent that has now been set. On a personal level, I feel that in the case of Orb or anyone who has put themselves in a position like this, personally or publicly, that gentle correction and guidance is the best course of action. If a course can't be corrected over a period of time, then a strong dose of discipline like Orb received may do the person some good, otherwise it can just jade a person and harden them. Thanks for the post Alex, and anyone who read my thoughts. | ||
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ScareCrow`
Canada88 Posts
On March 10 2012 01:19 Elyvilon wrote: Well, orb says he never lied. Some people believe him, some people don't. Anyone who believes him didn't see the twitch VOD before he deleted it with him in the webcam, playing against the poster, typing it out in rage. | ||
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hALLE
Sweden19 Posts
And the way people tip-toe around the word is funny to me. They've got this harry potter thing going on, the N-WORD, the word that musnt be used! And what is up with all the community members being all up in orbs grill about this. Cant we all relate and emphatize about raging on the ladder? We all know orb isnt a racist and he would never use this language on a professional stream. Seems to me like some people need to get of their high horses. | ||
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Nukm_
Germany104 Posts
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Drezan
United States19 Posts
I don't believe that you deserve any of this. Mistake or not, learn from the experience and keep your head up. | ||
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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
However, Orb's non less human than the rest of us. I'm proud of reddit for hounding out racism, but at the same time, I think we can at least partially forgive Orb (unless something comes up in the future that would refute his apology), because hey, we all say stupid things some times. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On March 10 2012 01:24 hALLE wrote: I feel this whole story is blown out of proportion. So the guy raged a bit when he played some ladder, who doesnt? So what if he said nigger instead of any other swearword, its not like he hates blacks and is a secret KKK member? And the way people tip-toe around the word is funny to me. They've got this harry potter thing going on, the N-WORD, the word that musnt be used! And what is up with all the community members being all up in orbs grill about this. Cant we all relate and emphatize about raging on the ladder? We all know orb isnt a racist and he would never use this language on a professional stream. Seems to me like some people need to get of their high horses. Oh please, we all should know better. I don't rage on ladder, and I certainly never resort to extremely foul, hateful language that is symbolic of a terrible period of history in which an entire group of people were literally forced into submission. Don't give me this shit about relating and empathizing, we should all know better than this. What's sad is that we have people going around saying things like "this isn't a big deal". It is a big deal, because it's representative of a systematic culture of oppression and hate, and we should all be consciously doing our absolute best to fix the problem, not doing our best to excuse someone else when he climbs aboard the hate bus. Alex Garfield summed it up very well in the other thread. It's time we shaped up and were proud to say to the world "Our community is better than this!", not deliberately throwing ourselves into the same destructive patterns that cause so many problems in life. It was a harmful, hateful thing to say, it was extremely offensive, and he should know better. Just because you don't think anyone is watching is probably the worst reason to do something like this: it means you KNOW you shouldn't do it but did it anyway. Good for Orb for owning up, I hope he's able to bounce back. Shame on everyone who doesn't understand why issues like this are important. | ||
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Elean
689 Posts
On March 10 2012 01:20 ScareCrow` wrote: Anyone who believes him didn't see the twitch VOD before he deleted it with him in the webcam, playing against the poster, typing it out in rage. Considering how easy it is to prove from a replay that it was actually him playing (comparison of the hotkeys used). If he lied, we will have the proof soon enough with all the dirt-digging maniacs from reddit. If the proof never comes, we should just assume he actually didn't lie. | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
On March 10 2012 01:19 Elyvilon wrote: Well, orb says he never lied. Some people believe him, some people don't. I thought there was vod proof(later removed)/replay + matching hotkeys which basically proved it was him. Whattttt the fuck. | ||
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Phantom09
United States73 Posts
I'm still an orb fan  | ||
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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
Good luck brotha! | ||
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Zave
Sweden19 Posts
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Layback
Sweden20 Posts
You've been bashing players on ladder for a long, long time, also you've been a douche to your viewers on stream. Either way I do think that what you got is what you deserved. Advice for you in the future - Learn to handle your rage, be more proffessional with situations like these, and most importantly, DON'T LIE! | ||
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Jedclark
United Kingdom903 Posts
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