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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 13:39 Nick! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not. I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if the commentators say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass. User was temp banned for this post.
The N----- has a lot more history to it than the word F-----
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i mean seriously? its cool he is standing up and making a point but....this is before orb was contracted by EG. seems more like EG wanting attention (again) for being the golden boy of sc2. Give me a break....such bulllshit imo.
As someone said several pages ago....Great job kids on reddit....you have successfully ruined someones casting career. feel good?
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I am severely disappointed by the reaction that has taken place. I feel EG and people took this way too far, and are exhibiting extreme hypocrisy as one of their own players, Idra, is much worse. As a fan of Idra, and not one of orb, I am truly dumbfounded. This reaction is contradictory and I know I don't support EG as strongly as I have before.
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On March 09 2012 13:23 guluru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:19 Quotidian wrote:This will only end Orb's career if he lets it. Destiny is famous for saying "nigger" on his stream, and he is still going relatively strong. And then there's Idra's use of "faggot." + Show Spoiler +What I find the most annoying about this thread is how the OP refuses to spell out "nigger" even though we all know what word he is referring to. I guess I just get reminded about the Louis CK bit: Thank you so much for posting that video. This whole thing has made me think of Louis CK the whole time and think on how ridiculous people are acting
yeah, I think once you've seen that bit and found it funny, it's impossible to read the OP and not feel the OP is being extremely silly in how it refuses to use the word "nigger."
I do think that you have to be some level of racist to use the word nigger like Orb did though, even if it's not the directly harmful, bodies-swaying-from-poplar-trees type of racism. It's obvious that people like Orb/Destiny/etc feel decidedly "not black" and their use of "nigger" is some weird brand of ironic racism. But the same goes for people who go to extreme lengths to "protect" a group of people they do not belong to - I don't think the "black community" would've handled this the way EG/Reddit did + Show Spoiler +I'm basing this almost entirely on how people like Patrice Oneal would react to white people using the word "nigger" -- I know, not very scientific
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This entire post by Alex was rubbish and reeks of PR and political correctness. He got fired because he lied to his boss, this is already what Scoots heavily implied on LO3 would happen if he was found to be lying. Every time Alex starts posting or appearing on shows you know the bullshit is about to start flowing, Alex should just let Scoots handle this stuff, he does a much better job of it.
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On March 09 2012 13:42 Chill wrote:
Don't worry everyone, in 2 days everyone will forget about this and move on to the next stupid drama. Jesus.
I hear chill isn't chill with this thread. comments?
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On March 09 2012 13:42 Chill wrote:
Don't worry everyone, in 2 days everyone will forget about this and move on to the next stupid drama. Jesus.
I was rather hoping we'd all have learnt something and become better for it
Oh well....
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On March 09 2012 12:52 Gryffes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote:...Now, I just wish you guys would also get this upset when people use the word f----t, so that we could start fighting homophobia, too, and show people that it, like racism, also doesn't belong in our community  . . Uh you might wanna tell some of your players that 
Yeah, that just ruined his entire post for me.
That would make you think that they would take the same actions against an EG affiliate that uses the word "faggot", but wait...
I'm not saying they should also dismiss Idra or that I disagree with his post, but it just makes everything he just said in his OP sounds more like a corporate note rather than the big moral lessons he tried to pull.
On March 09 2012 13:20 momonami5 wrote:
guys comparing to idra, orb dug his own grave here folks, he lied to eg who made a statement that they believed orb, then real evidence came out proving that orb lied. If orb would have just said it was him and that it was a mistake he made long ago he would be fine but he made EG look like idiots.
Nowhere in his post he said Orb was dismissed because he lied to EG.
He pretty much said they did it because he was setting a bad example to the community.
So how is Idra case any different?
He just ended his post saying that he wishes the community gets as upset when people use the word "faggot".
So what that means? He is asking us to start bombarding them with complaints against Idra because he can't do anything about it without our support?
Again, I'm not asking for anything to be done about Idra regarding that and I'm not discussing Orb's or Idra's situation here.
I'm just saying that, unfortunately, that last sentence made his whole post sound hypocritical to me.
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This is retarted. Orb says a few "bad" things and people get all self-righteous on him? People say things, and some butthurt guy decided to post it on reddit and all the self-righteous hypocrites that say worse things than what orb said on ladder grabbed their pitchforks and tore him apart. Congratulations! You've cost a good caster his life's dream and goal.
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While I disagree in your theory of how stereotypes and what I would call racial humor (racist jokes) propogate overt racism (I believe that races/creeds working against their stereotypes better humanity as a whole) I completely applaud you in holding to your personal and professional beliefs in this circumstance. The notion of whether Orb's use of the terms propogated racism is well out of the scope of this discussion, but under your own moral standard, you were compelled to act. With this in mind, I believe this event will help bolster Esports growth, as the public invocation of such moral fiber will both display and propagate mature behavior to counter activities harmful to our community and industry growth.
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On March 09 2012 13:42 Chill wrote:
Don't worry everyone, in 2 days everyone will forget about this and move on to the next stupid drama. Jesus.
It saves them money since they just never put out the torches or drop the pitchforks.
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don't worry they had a talk with the people who got the most views on their streams about saying faggot and anything else offensive
they fired the guy with the least # of viewers. problems solved
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On March 09 2012 13:40 Kodak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:23 Stark1 wrote:
- paragraphs upon paragraphs of self-aggrandizing monologue (no one cares if you took Black Studies, really)
- Orb said nigger on air, got fired (okay, now we know why we're reading this)
- continued bout of literary diarrhea, more needless self-referential bullshit
- begging people not to complain to sponsors despite deserving the backlash that occurred (really, who doesn't know Orb's reputation by now; you signed off on his behaviour when he was given the job)
- check to see what kind of narcissist could have written this
- Alex Garfield
I'm not surprised at all; leave it to an entitled silver-spoon douchebag to make a business announcement into a mass of PC intellectual masturbation. Seriously, all this needed to be was a few paragraphs of "Orb did something unacceptable, so we fired him. Sorry to all and enjoy the rest of our event, P.S. please stop sending complaints to our sponsors now."
User was banned for this post. Why was he banned for this? Just curious.
For a poorly written flame that added nothing to the discussion and was mild offensive. Really it appears that Stark1 was upset because Alex was well read and took the time to write a well thought out response to the whole issue. Stark1 on the other hand, took little, to no time to write his response and attempted to make it as offensive as possible.
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On March 09 2012 13:42 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +
The funny thing about the word "nigger" is that it seems to offend white people more than black people. To all the people in support of Alex's view point (and to Alex himself), what are your opinions on black rappers/comedians/people using the word freely and without consequence?
Call a black guy "nigger" IRL and be prepared for an assbeating. That's all there is to say about that. They find it very offensive.Now, blacks do call thier friends "nigga" sometimes but that word is different. My black friends will say to me "what up my nigga?" and I'll say it to them if I know they're cool with it. But I wouldn't say "my nigga" to a black guy I didn't know.
This here.
People need to think more about the shit that comes out of their mouth.
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On March 09 2012 13:42 Chill wrote:
Don't worry everyone, in 2 days everyone will forget about this and move on to the next stupid drama. Jesus.
everyone except for orb.
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On March 09 2012 13:23 Stark1 wrote:
- paragraphs upon paragraphs of self-aggrandizing monologue (no one cares if you took Black Studies, really)
- Orb said nigger on air, got fired (okay, now we know why we're reading this)
- continued bout of literary diarrhea, more needless self-referential bullshit
- begging people not to complain to sponsors despite deserving the backlash that occurred (really, who doesn't know Orb's reputation by now; you signed off on his behaviour when he was given the job)
- check to see what kind of narcissist could have written this
- Alex Garfield
I'm not surprised at all; leave it to an entitled silver-spoon douchebag to make a business announcement into a mass of PC intellectual masturbation. Seriously, all this needed to be was a few paragraphs of "Orb did something unacceptable, so we fired him. Sorry to all and enjoy the rest of our event, P.S. please stop sending complaints to our sponsors now."
User was banned for this post.
Really don't think this merited a ban.
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Props to EG to take the best action; upholding all the sponsorship reputations.
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I really wish we, as a society, had a better grasp and understanding of words and their use so situations like this could never, ever happen. People can say Orb should have controlled himself better or that EG was too harsh with him, but I disagree with both of those perspectives. Forget any specific language or culture for a moment, as human beings we should never have let a single word in any language be given this much negative power. I fear that this situation is just another one of many where one single word has been given too much power.
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To be honest, the CEO could have written this statement in more precise, short, meaningful way. I really dont get why you have to make such a long post. It seems really a straight forward matter to me.
In short, from that whole post I get:
1/ EG doesnt accept what Orb has done so they let him go.
2/ And the community should not overreact, give the organization a chance to respond.
I (and i think a lot of people are like me) do not need to know your personal principle or EG opinon on "racism" or " racist" for that matter, so no need to clarify that. On certain level, I think you make a scene out of this and try to improve EG image. I honestly do not think Orb is "racist" at all, he just raged when he played SC2. Everyone needs to let it go and EG foremost should do it first instead of writing a post with the words "racist", "racism" used repeatedly. Starcraft 2 community does not tolerate racism but it also need to know how to forgive. I know the OP mention we should forgive Orb in his post but i dont feel that is the tone of the post.
Also people need to stop abusing the phrase "hurt Esports". People make mistakes, and individual does not stand for the whole community. The sponsors are smart enough to know that. If your organization is not good enough, they would find a different organization, but they wont leave this community as long as they still see profit in it.
My 2 cents so no need to hate.
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EPT
