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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
2 two cents:
- Alex says he doesnt think Orb is really racist, so who of us (including Alex) has never said a word the implies wrong or inacceptable views (bitch, rape whatever you name it) -> i think an official warning would have been appropriate
- given that we are all most likely guilty of Orbs wrong doing or something similar, isnt the standard we should hold public figures up to, how they act in public while doing their job?
- How many players of EG have a 100% clean record past and present in that regard?
besides the point:
- some people find Alex' posts well thought out and "well-written", i find they could be more concise and to the point. I think theres is an important issue at hand that needs an answer, i personally would be prefer if he would precisely speak to that and refer to context elsewhere if necessary they way it is written here really makes the decision less convincing and watered down.
Does it really take 2 pages to explain an official decision? Maybe the background and official statement should be seperated.
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On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not.
I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR
he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if the commentators say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I have to say im pretty happy with the response here. Personally I distance myself with people who make me uncomfortable and anyone who gets that angry about a game to call someone that word or any word that contains as much meaning I wouldn't want to be around them.
Personally I don't know much about orb other than the NASL stuff but when I heard this I just straight up wouldn't have respected any other decision other than getting rid of him and I wouldn't have watched any content that he casts if he didn't give a proper heart felt appology.
Its interesting though I am white and im from Ireland a country that didn't have the same issues the US had with racism but we as a country if you are going to use the N word its only for racist purposes so maybe that is why I take a stance like that. It probably because the main body of the population is white though that is why the same words are never used and if used they are focused and intentful comments against a person. Even if its directed at a white person with anger its still makes me uncomfortable.
We all lash out in anger but if you are angry go take a break or just leave the game you are frustrated in because most of the time the other player just has a laugh at the idiot he just took the ladder points from.
As a complete aside from the rest of my post id really enjoy if incontrol did the casting for the EG masters cup.
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On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not.
Because Alex specifically places it on par:
"...Now, I just wish you guys would also get this upset when people use the word f----t, so that we could start fighting homophobia, too, and show people that it, like racism, also doesn't belong in our community ."
On top of that that he clearly admits it happens and he's known about it but the consequences are different.
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On March 09 2012 13:23 Stark1 wrote:
- paragraphs upon paragraphs of self-aggrandizing monologue (no one cares if you took Black Studies, really)
- Orb said nigger on air, got fired (okay, now we know why we're reading this)
- continued bout of literary diarrhea, more needless self-referential bullshit
- begging people not to complain to sponsors despite deserving the backlash that occurred (really, who doesn't know Orb's reputation by now; you signed off on his behaviour when he was given the job)
- check to see what kind of narcissist could have written this
- Alex Garfield
I'm not surprised at all; leave it to an entitled silver-spoon douchebag to make a business announcement into a mass of PC intellectual masturbation. Seriously, all this needed to be was a few paragraphs of "Orb did something unacceptable, so we fired him. Sorry to all and enjoy the rest of our event, P.S. please stop sending complaints to our sponsors now."
User was banned for this post.
Why was he banned for this? Just curious.
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On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not.
LBGT groups do go after public figures who use homophobic slurs.
Just search google for "apologises for anti-gay remarks" and you'll see a long list of public figures forced to apologise for just that.
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On March 09 2012 13:38 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not. As a French person, the two word seem really comparable. And by that I think public figure using the word faggot should see their carrier end. I don't think its specifically american though, just that people do not have the same sensibility toward those words.
They're not remotely the same in America, straight up. Different levels entirely.
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On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not.
...Now, I just wish you guys would also get this upset when people use the word f----t, so that we could start fighting homophobia, too, and show people that it, like racism, also doesn't belong in our community .
Such is not tolerated either.
Explain to me how f----t is any different for a public figure?
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On March 09 2012 13:34 Chill wrote:
Ugh. My head is just empty. What a dumb situation.
Could you elaborate a bit more Chill? I'd be interested to hear your views on the situation.
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Hopefully this sets precedence for the future. It makes me sick, and I hear this kind of bullshit all the time on battlenet. I have friends who are black, and it's just irritating that people would say those things. Also they don't care if I call them black, they call us white. =D
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So proud to have a leader like you in the community, Alex. Thanks for your words tonight.
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So he was on his personal stream, with no EG overlay or tag, playing personal games, and people freaked out that he used a word commonly used on the internet to illustrate frustration?
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On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not.
I agree with you on the N word, but any public politician, sports present etc. would not survive using that sort of homophobic language either. Not even close. I can't think of any public figures which have done that and survived intact.
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On March 09 2012 13:31 b0oyah wrote:
Man to me this is so messed up. The guy calls someone a nigger on his own free time, privatly and gets fired. Idra calls someone a faggot in a tournament and nothing happens ?!
Hypocrisy
Firstly, I would like to say that EG as an organization has conducted itself in an impeccable manner and for that they have gained a fan in me.
The post above does highlight what I consider to be a valid point; however, this doesn't mean what Alex Garfield has stated is invalid. Idra, Destiny and other professional gamers that may have used racial or other offensive slurs on their streams or in public should in fact be sanctioned for their actions.
Professional gamers should be held to higher standards than they are currently held to now. I would like to see EG take the lead and enforce that their players conduct themselves in a manner befitting of their professional status.
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On March 09 2012 13:40 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:38 corumjhaelen wrote:On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not. As a French person, the two word seem really comparable. And by that I think public figure using the word faggot should see their carrier end. I don't think its specifically american though, just that people do not have the same sensibility toward those words. They're not remotely the same in America, straight up. Different levels entirely.
Do you think it's reasonnable, or purely cultural ?
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On March 09 2012 13:39 Nick! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not. I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if they say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass.
Legally if your boss didn't say something about either one he would be in just as much trouble if someone filed a complaint.
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It's a shame, I like his casts. It's his own fault though and not entirely surprising for a full time rager on stream. Most like him are bound to step over the line at times and if you combine that with work it's not a good combination.
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...Now, I just wish you guys would also get this upset when people use the word f----t, so that we could start fighting homophobia, too, and show people that it, like racism, also doesn't belong in our community .
Then sack Idra.
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On March 09 2012 13:18 TBone- wrote:Wow I really feel for Orb on that one  . He was living the dream. Show nested quote +
However, almost ten years later, as I also mentioned at the beginning of this (very long) post, I've never been prouder to be a part of the StarCraft community (or of any gaming community) than I am at this very moment. And I feel this way because, despite the fact that you guys have been peppering my sponsors with complaints*, your outrage shows me that we do have a set of core values (one of which is that racism isn't acceptable), and we expect our icons and celebrities to share those values; otherwise, they won't be our icons and celebrities any longer.
I don't feel proud... You make this out to be some glorious feat by the community, but in reality, a kid who had a dream messed up, and got fired for it. That to me is so sad. Can you guys actually imagine how terrible Orb must be feeling?
^This is how I feel too. I (and I think most agree) don't think Orb is racist and it is sad that his dream might be lost over this mistake.
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On March 09 2012 13:32 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:31 Gamegene wrote:On March 09 2012 13:29 Zzoram wrote:
Destiny shouldn't be allowed to do what he does publicly without consequences. The fact that he has been able to get away with it is shameful. I don't watch him frequently, but for the 2 months, whenever i watched him on own3d he seems quite tame o: He might've learned to control himself once he got picked up by Quantic.
When Destiny was being "inappropriate" he wasn't representing sponsors and such.
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EPT
